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3/31/2014 21:47:27   
Sesura
Member

First of all, I started this thread because I was once a mercenary and when I changed class to mage, it was then nerfed and made the skills 'Battery Backup' and 'Assimilation' to gain an extra turn cooldown. What I wanted to know from you guys is to hear your thoughts and insights or feedbacks if it really afftected your build.
Here are some of the questions:

»Did you lost frequently after the update?

»Did the mage class lost its rhythm into the game?

»What are your experiences after the update?

If you would like to add some more answers or questions which wasn't mentioned in this thread,
Feel free to discuss your thoughts.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
3/31/2014 23:42:30   
Cyber Dream
Member

Lol, this balance update was a joke. Skills were nerfed that weren't needed to be nerfed. This is the way I see it, the game is still the same balance wise ever after the update. The problem wasn't the cool down of the skills, it was the skill setup. For example, Tm has two reliable ways for taking and gaining energy...compared to other classes. Instead of just this class(tm) taking a nerf, almost every class took a nerf making balance the same as it was prior to the update. Increasing the cooldown just made the matches longer.

_____________________________

AQW Epic  Post #: 2
4/1/2014 0:32:58   
Sesura
Member

Yep. That's one point, and longer matches could just possibly favor TMs due to its almost endless mana output. Afterall, Blood mages had a bunch of nerfs with this update.

< Message edited by Sesura -- 4/1/2014 0:35:09 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
4/1/2014 1:10:49   
Mother1
Member

@ Cyber

The problem isn't TM but the way the staff is updating and balancing the game. Their passive to active change + the Adding cost to cores updates while were good balance wise left one major flaw unchecked which was the drastic strain on energy. In all honestly I say when they do updates they need to find the flaws with those updates and fix those flaws before spring these updates on us. If they can cover their flaws as much as possible stuff like this wouldn't be happening.
Epic  Post #: 4
4/1/2014 1:57:10   
dfo99
Member
 

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21632941
Post #: 5
4/1/2014 2:52:01   
Sesura
Member

@dfo99

Its just about the skill nerfs on them and how you feel about the update.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
4/1/2014 3:55:43   
edwardvulture
Member

@M1 Passives to actives helped balance? What.... that update made every class become closer and destroyed build diversity. Splitting the skill tree and bringing passives back is a much better alternative then passives to actives.


...good point dfro

< Message edited by edwardvulture -- 4/1/2014 4:01:04 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 7
4/1/2014 5:09:34   
Sesura
Member

@edward perhaps the devs wanted to implement something that was a new way of battling. Changing passives to active skills was a major change that would affect such builds and would take alot of testing to do so. I support this update on passives to actives because the devs wanted players not to be dependent on their passive skills but to be brainy on choosing and constructing builds now that they have to click each and every skil atm.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
4/1/2014 16:32:16   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

yes...it's funny how passives to actives helped. it made energy control paramount and
the masses moved into TM. Dam...couldn't see that one coming :/

cyber dream has it exactly right...

i'm a CH with little control over energy. i can spend skill points and watch it all get taken
away as well as see other classes regenerate 350 ep at a time, when I can only manage
about 140. So why did CH get nerfed also? i'm the one who needed help with energy,
not the one who needed to wait an extra turn to regenerate any...

...the funny thing is, those who manage this irritation probably don't even realize that
nerfing everyone is a bassackwards way to approach solving problems. There's no better
way to spread disinterest than by giving everyone in the game a reason to hate it...
Post #: 9
4/1/2014 16:35:01   
Ranloth
Banned


^ Let's just say BMs can feel your pain, when it comes to the EP regen. e.e

Your drain is the best one out there, even at Lvl 1 (100 EP) and moderate Tech.
AQ Epic  Post #: 10
4/1/2014 16:53:54   
Mother1
Member

@ Arrchlord raistlin

The problem with this change was that the staff didn't forsee the huge strain on energy this change would cause. Add that to adding costs to cores and you have a nightmare.

Now because TM is the only class that can somewhat manage this problem due to still having what is is good at (in this case energy control) Everyone thinks it is fair to nerf this class so it will struggle just like the other classes do.

In all honestly that isn't balance that is going backwards. How about making it so all the other classes can compete as well as TM instead of making TM struggle as much as the other classes?
Epic  Post #: 11
4/1/2014 16:58:45   
edwardvulture
Member

@sesura This game can be made to be so much more strategic with so much more options, but they do not realize that balance requires a LOT of people actually testing and running stats. They probably have 10 testers, it would take them forever to see how a change in one skill will have impact on every build of every level in a given scenario. They just can't do it. They need to open up balance directly to veteran players that can see the whole picture or balance will not progress.


quote:

There are really only two types of skills on the skill tree. Skills that have 0 energy cost, and skills that have an energy/health cost. Static charge, battery backup, static smash,static charge,assimilation, and energy parasite all belong in the 0 energy cost category. When you think about it passives are also 0 energy cost skills and could be instituted so that each class can really be distinctive again. Players tend to invest in them way more than cost skills like plasma bolt, overload, etc. because they benefit every kind of build whereas skills that cost energy are situational and often used only in specialized builds. Without the splitting of the skill tree, cost skills and "0" cost skills (technically a turn's usage is an opportunity cost) will never be balanced in terms of power.
...and that is the rationale behind the skill adjustment in my balance thread "Build Diversity x 10"

Feel free to refute it in any way, but the logic should be clear. We already tried passives to actives and that pretty much failed miserably, it is time to go for the alternative and split the skill tree.


Splitting the skill tree is the best alternative, I really do not understand why it is not getting more support. It differentiated classes and allows unique builds to be made within each class.

quote:

Ever since passives and actives, many unique builds that only one class could have have ceased to exist. Examples are the tank TLM, support BH, dex spam BH, no focus tech Merc, i'm sure there were lots more. If you noticed, each class, before passives to actives had something different to offer, i'm sure some of you can elaborate on this point for me. Now all the classes do basically the same things, some more effective than the others. All classes are given an energy regeneration skill and an energy stealing skill. All classes have shields that cover both defense and offense, once again some "better" than others. All classes have viable strength builds. 5 bonus works almost as well for every class. None of the classes can spam dex except tech mages. Spamming tech without focus is no longer an option because of the huge stress this game has on energy. There are very few things that are unique to classes anymore.



Now to reply to your thread.

No, I have not lost more. I feel little to no change considering that most of the time, I use assimilation and battery backup once every battle. I beat most builds that have less than 1200 HP. I use a high support/tech 4 focus supercharge build with 900+ energy. In some ways, it is the ultimate antithesis of the spike build(High HP/Dex/Str and maybe tech with little or no investment in support or energy). My build is pretty successful and I am the only one using it. I feel they need a way bigger balance change than this but since passives to actives caused a mass exodus of players, maybe if they let us (the players who actually play this game) be directly involved with balance, a successful balance update that satisfies most if not everybody will come out.

< Message edited by edwardvulture -- 4/1/2014 17:05:49 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 12
4/1/2014 17:01:36   
Mother1
Member

@ edwardvulture

I actually remember Rabble already vetoing having a huge number of testers sometime ago when another player suggested that.
Epic  Post #: 13
4/1/2014 17:07:52   
edwardvulture
Member

well in my suggestion "Balance Tribunal" I said about 100, staff-selected people. It is sad that is now a striking % of players active on the servers at any give time.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 14
4/1/2014 17:12:35   
Ranloth
Banned


It's still been vetoed. Testers are the people selected by the Staff - recently (read: November/December), there were four or five new Testers being picked without any official info being disclosed to the players about any recruitment (for Testers/Mods).
AQ Epic  Post #: 15
4/1/2014 17:21:28   
edwardvulture
Member

That's not enough, the sooner they see that balance cannot be handled by a few people, the faster players will be satisfied with balance. And also, the balance tribunal are not on equal ground as testers, they, in theory, are volunteers that run battle scenarios, suggest ideas and changes, "vote" for each change. They are exclusively balance testers. They do not have access to new content before everyone else, they are not directly involved with the staff personally, they are the "pre-show screening" that makes sure that balance is satisfactory before they hit the game.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 16
4/1/2014 17:24:21   
Ranloth
Banned


It was vetoed. There's no futher debate on it because they won't change it. Just look up the definition of "vetoed" and don't bother wasting your time, because they aren't changing their mind - it'd be a different story if they said "It's not feasible for the time being.", not vetoing it.
AQ Epic  Post #: 17
4/1/2014 17:26:01   
edwardvulture
Member

100 is not a large number

Change is progress, this would be no worse than ripping off enhancements that people paid real money for.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 18
4/1/2014 17:47:33   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

@mother1

I totally agree with building classes up instead of pushing everyone down.
It probably takes alot more effort, though, to do that...
Post #: 19
4/1/2014 20:28:25   
Sesura
Member

Let's say its the time of the mages atm. Having two sources of energy on the skill tree is one of the best perks of being a mage. I mean, what is the purpose of being a mage if you don't have any source of mana better than others? This is kinda a pay to win situation. If you want to take advantage of the update, change to mage. If you don't have enough creds or do not want to change your class, try to mold some builds which can compete with mages atm or might as well wait for your class to get the advantage on the update soon enough.

< Message edited by Sesura -- 4/1/2014 20:29:49 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 20
4/1/2014 21:04:04   
ambien
Member

as we can all see now ( the staff ) do they really listen to us the players ( well ) so far the update balance have not worked.( the mage skill nerf did nothing to mages they are still as they were only 1 round longer that is all for them to do the same thing,because all other classes got almost the same nerf or buff or what ever you want to call it . )
as we see so far every time they nerf, buff, or what ever nothing changes matter of fact the game play gets worst in the game.
we said over and over do not nerf some things in the game an they do an guess what it is real bad now.

why can they not just sit down read the post from cover to cover and see what we are saying. know wonder the game is 95% luck now when this omega took over the game went straight down hill.

it has been said spit the skill trees good idea that would help a lot get rid of ( 95 luck %) ( to .004 % ) let the builds work not the crazy 632 crit win the game,
that is just wrong.

players are getting fed up read the post .please fix it get rid of all crazy damage and crazy blocks. there is time to fix it , l really wonder if the devs would play for 2 hours once each one of them really play they would see how bad the balance in damage and blocks are. we never see them play never, where are the mods they should be able to see the this, but we do not see mods very much any more. the game was fun but a lot of players are bored over the game play. you do not see many vets playing any more why did they leave well we all know why. just upset at the game update that are to fix the broken problem but the problem has not gotten any better. we that is all

my thoughts on this always the syfy

< Message edited by ambien -- 4/1/2014 21:07:50 >
Post #: 21
4/1/2014 21:10:16   
Mother1
Member

@ Ambien

where have you been? many of the balance changes and update are from guess who? The players especially since Omega started.

The passive to active change was suggested by the players
The adding costs to cores was suggested by the players
The items being upgradeable was suggested by the players

The list goes on with all the suggestions made that were put into the game Viva player base.

Epic  Post #: 22
4/1/2014 21:13:44   
ambien
Member

mother if that is the truth ( why are you always complaining about the nerfs how bad the game is an so on an on get real ) for real you just said in post why did they do this or that matter of fact you have said why did they do that. it made things worst.

and btw mother l have been here since beta and the game was better then , then now in a lot of things

< Message edited by ambien -- 4/1/2014 21:20:02 >
Post #: 23
4/1/2014 21:15:01   
edwardvulture
Member

blame the players...but not completely. If they had enough people testing and reaching the conclusion that passives to actives was a bad idea, that would have never happened.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 24
4/1/2014 21:23:37   
Sesura
Member

In my opinion, the passive to active update was to satisfy the player's complains. Players were really insane because of such luck due to passives like Adrenaline, Reroute, Bloodlust,Shadow Arts, and the like. So the devs created a way so that no more or less players would complain of luck. The passive to active update was created so that players would never say it as luck because the player did it actually on purpose because he clicked it and not just sitting right there and wait for a block.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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