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Change base damage for All weapon Types.

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5/13/2014 7:07:37   
Rui.
Banned

 

 Staff having the same damage as a club seems senseless.

Since all classes can use swords. Here is how damage needs to be changed for weapons.

This way strength abuse will be reduced and diversity in build making will emerge.


This is just a random number. For an example.

Level 40 Sword 400 Damage
Level 40 Club 390 Damage
Level 40 Blades 360 Damage
Level 40 Staff 320 Damage.

Mages have strong unblockble caster skills which both work with Dex and tech .. Hence they do not need a powerful melee damage ...
Plus they can malf to make up for damage compensation.

Bontys and cybers .. have powerful debuffs so that justifies the damage.

Stats can remain the same .. Its just the base damage on the weapons.
Post #: 1
5/13/2014 8:59:39   
DeathGuard
Member

Now why don't we make this more interesting? Lets nerf all classes to hell and make balance even worse?

Being serious, this thread ain't worth it. We are looking to maintain some of the few balance btw classes and you're just trying to nerf other classes.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 2
5/13/2014 13:08:41   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 SUPPORTED! This is a very logical feature that I think would be very beneficial to this game. It's only logic that weapons Max base damage should differ depending on type.

@DeathGuard- Could you try to possible be more polite to other people on threads? It's really sad and it's a real de-motivator when you reply with such degrading comments.

I'm a mage and I see no problem with this! Supported if it is possibly scaled differently.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 3
5/13/2014 13:34:31   
Rui.
Banned

 
quote:

Now why don't we make this more interesting? Lets nerf all classes to hell and make balance even worse?

Being serious, this thread ain't worth it. We are looking to maintain some of the few balance btw classes and you're just trying to nerf other classes.


How am i trying to nerf any class when all classes can use a sword ?

Justify your comments in a logical manner ?
Post #: 4
5/13/2014 13:36:41   
DillBagel
Member

In the case of energy weapons, every type of weapon has electricity and plasma all over it, in other words, all of them are just as lethal.
For physical weapons, both clubs and staffs employ blunt-force trauma, while swords and wristblades have proper cutting/stabbing edges, so your scaling system is still logically useless.
AQW Epic  Post #: 5
5/13/2014 13:39:15   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Well he's not a coder so I don't expect his scaling to be perfect. Scaling is up for Devs to decide.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 6
5/13/2014 13:43:33   
Rui.
Banned

 

 If you have played any mmo/rpg you will notice that a mage uses a staff to conjure spells and a sword to fight melee.

This game beats all logic. one 2 handed staff does same damage all a 2 handed claw ? or a huge friggin club ?

Bludgeon makes sense since u are hitting it with a blunt edge of the stick .. a stick cant compare to a club when it comes to a strike vs strike outplay .

If all classes can use a sword it is imperative that the class based weapons need to have a different scaling set on them.

Staff being lowest damage and club being the highest.
Post #: 7
5/13/2014 13:44:56   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Weapons alone shouldn't have the same damage. Someone using Apprentice Staff vs. Abyss Staff can do the same damage. But I totally understand what you mean Rui. Some logic would be nice
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 8
5/13/2014 13:57:47   
DillBagel
Member

The only way this is possibly balanced (and even then, can still be abused) is if the nerfed weapons get extra stats instead, which honestly would follow your logic being used. Having the class weapons do the same damage is the easiest way to assure balance between them.
AQW Epic  Post #: 9
5/13/2014 14:17:45   
Rui.
Banned

 

 Balance is an illusion .. its fairy dust .

What i am looking at is from a logical perspective.. None of the nerfed weapons are getting any extra stats. If a mage can have 3 unblock able high damage dealing skills there is no need to for a staff to have high damage.

If you want strike damage use a sword simple logic.

If your mage and trying to support your class them sorry . Look at it from a game perspective.
Post #: 10
5/13/2014 14:35:53   
DarkDevil
Member

interesting idea.

now with nerfing weapons for certain classes some builds will get destroyed unless it was properly balanced.

seeing it that way i guess i could connect this to one of suggestions about making items having a stat lean or other benefits.
in other words you will be able to trade damage for stats or something like critical or energy regain, some bright suggestions can come here.

i guess this would bring some logic in game but this worries me about the kind of buffs it will take to balance classes.
also clubs should be stronger than sword , with possibly much less stats to compensate , since a club is surely stronger than a sword.
AQ Epic  Post #: 11
5/13/2014 15:39:09   
DillBagel
Member

I am using a GAME perspective. You're using a real world perspective, and that had never made games any fun.
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
5/13/2014 19:05:33   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Ok, if you base it off average mmo logic then you might as well disable the strike button for mages since usually their default attack is some sort of weak spell like a fireball or energy blast.

But that aside, the main idea sounds interesting. But you have to remember that Blood Mage is also a melee class that uses a staff, so it can excel in both areas.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 13
5/16/2014 23:45:14   
SCAR
Member

I've got to say, I've really thought about how all weapons do the same amount of damage. This idea is also very logical. I'd like to
combine some ideas together, especially from what, "Dual Thrusters." Is saying too.

First off, let me place down some examples.

1. Clubs should do somewhere around, well 400 damage.

2. Swords should do somewhere around 380 damage.

3. Blades should do somewhere around 350 damage.

4. Staffs should do somewhere around, well, "320 damage."
________________________________________________

With all that being said, all the weapons, ( Clubs, Swords, Blades, Staffs. ) Definitely need a nerf in damage. It doesn't make logical sense
that they all do the same amount of damage. The only thing I think that should change for basic striking is exactly what Dual Thrusters
was talking about, Staffs should shoot out a fire ball, or plasma bolt. Lastly, since all Energy based weapons are more technologically
advanced, comparing to just normal Physical weapons, they should get a small damage boost consisting somewhere around 5-10 extra
damage. ( All stats should also remain the same. Finally, this was just a secondhand example of adding on to the suggestion. )

I like this idea though, so...Supported.
Post #: 14
5/17/2014 1:53:52   
Xendran
Member

quote:

Ok, if you base it off average mmo logic then you might as well disable the strike button for mages since usually their default attack is some sort of weak spell like a fireball or energy blast.


Yes. You're right.
You would want to give them lower weapon damage in exchange for having their primary attack be an unblockable basic energy bolt.
Unfortunately epicduel is so fundamentally broken that an idea like that just would not work in this game.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 5/17/2014 1:54:07 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 15
5/17/2014 17:48:20   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 And a merc can crit with bunker and deal way more damage than plasma bolt can.

Not supported. It's kind of a silly idea anyways. You're essentially just nerfing mages and hunters for no reason at all, and BM hurts from this a ton. Except for a short period of time, I don't think caster BM has ever actually worked successfully save for 1 time. There was like a 2-month period where it was really good but that promptly got stopped once they changed plasma rain from tech scaling to dex.

The only way I can see this actually being fair is that the primaries with lower damage get more stat boosts than those with higher damage. Naturally, swords will still probably have higher stats than clubs and blades, but considering staves only have 80% strike damage boost, their stats would be significantly higher, boosting their caster skills even further. Wait a moment, this sounds like it'll only make build diversity worse since TMs can now literally only run caster builds.
Epic  Post #: 16
5/17/2014 23:51:03   
Thylek Shran
Member

Not supported as class weapons are not the source of power for strenght builds.
As example str TM builds only work because of an OPed Bludgeon at higher character
levels and because the energy control skill Assimilation does increase with strenght.
However I would support that swords and class weapons would be equal in power.
DF Epic  Post #: 17
5/18/2014 2:50:14   
DillBagel
Member

The original purpose for swords having a higher damage was because you gave up class abilities to use a sword.
AQW Epic  Post #: 18
5/18/2014 23:49:53   
Thylek Shran
Member

Which could be used to make builds that dont need those skills but still are powerfull.
So swords grant bonus power in the end. The problem is that some classes benefit way
more from swords than other classes. As example Assimilation cannot get used with
swords but is a key skill for TMs. This is why most TMs use a staff and lack power
because of that when being compared to some other classes that use a sword.
Especially Blood Mages and Bounty Hunters can benefit from swords while only
having a small or no handicap.
DF Epic  Post #: 19
5/19/2014 2:39:31   
DillBagel
Member

Very true; a good demonstration of the difficulty of balance changes, since they effect some groups more than others. Personally, I think Assimilation wouldn't be so important if less classes had energy abilities, but apparently everyone needed those. :P
AQW Epic  Post #: 20
5/23/2014 9:38:03   
Seteriel
Member

quote:

Staff having the same damage as a club seems senseless.

Since all classes can use swords. Here is how damage needs to be changed for weapons.

This way strength abuse will be reduced and diversity in build making will emerge.


This is just a random number. For an example.

Level 40 Sword 400 Damage
Level 40 Club 390 Damage
Level 40 Blades 360 Damage
Level 40 Staff 320 Damage.

Mages have strong unblockble caster skills which both work with Dex and tech .. Hence they do not need a powerful melee damage ...
Plus they can malf to make up for damage compensation.

Bontys and cybers .. have powerful debuffs so that justifies the damage.

Stats can remain the same .. Its just the base damage on the weapons.

I understand your basic logic, but the problem is: already now many players forsake "weapon reqired skills" very often i.e. i don't know about 1vs1 but in 2vs2 it is very rare that Bounty/Cyber use blades for Poison/Massacre. Tech Mages for Assimilation is common, Mercs for Smasher too. But Tac Mercs and Blood Mages and many Hunters go for swords.
If you now nerf class weapons who already have lower damage and stats, then swords will be even more common.

If introducing this system, i think it would be better to do this scaling:
Level 40 Sword 360 Damage
Level 40 Club 390 Damage
Level 40 Blades 360 Damage
Level 40 Staff 320 Damage.

Class weapons as you explained.
Regarding swords and blades: both are "cutting" weapons. For the 2-handed swords, you put more strength into the strike. For the blades, you use 2 of them.
AQW Epic  Post #: 21
5/23/2014 10:19:24   
Mother1
Member

@ seteriel

swords were made more powerful because of the fact that you are giving up something in exchange. so how is it fair that you are taking away the advantage swords are giving (The extra stats and danage they give) while leaving the downside alone (not being able to use all moves)
Epic  Post #: 22
5/23/2014 11:21:23   
Seteriel
Member

I understand the developpers reason why they made swords stronger.
I only point out that (in 2vs2 at least) many players already ignore class weapons. In my opinion, when making class weapons more weaker will just make the majority of players from 4 of the 6 classes fully go to swords.
AQW Epic  Post #: 23
5/23/2014 13:28:54   
Rui.
Banned

 

 Gameplay between 2 vs 2 is different from 1 vs 1 ..

In 2 vs 2 you need to focus on survival and energy in 1 vs 1 you know your build and have complete control on your energy.

DO not drift away from the original topic, I am trying to justify why all weapons do not need the same damage on them.

Post #: 24
5/23/2014 14:29:58   
Seteriel
Member

Then blades should be on top, if i can wear 2 of them i strike with 2 :D

Have you thought about the impact of a change to weapon damage ? Like Double Strike, Bludgeon, Massacre are % based and there are other skills relying on weapon damage, like Atom Smash, Static Smash.
The all would have their effects reduced.
(sorry if it was mentioned already, i only read the first post)
AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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