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8/17/2014 2:32:50   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


Here's a mass of suggestions (which I guess could be called balance as well, but I think of them more as suggestions) to help individualize classes so that class changing seems more rewarding and trying out new classes seems more fun.

My first change that I want to suggest is that classes should have different difficulty curves. Namely, the starter classes like TM, BH, and Merc are more straightforward but slightly less rewarding at their max potential than the evolved classes. They're made mostly for new players to get the ropes of the game and battle mechanics while providing fairly handy win rates while being nice and easy to play effectively. Here are some changes involving that:

Changes:
Energy Parasite: The damage output of the on-hit skill effect is reduced drastically, still hitting a minimum of 50 damage but now doing barely any damage at all compared to what it hits these days. However, each time you use energy parasite on an opponent, 1 turn of CD gets added to their gun [This change will make it harder for strength builds to abuse energy parasite while still doing decent damage, but will promote more cooldown management strategies and will synergize with this intimidate suggestion coming right up]
Intimidate(BM): Rather than reducing the strength stat, this version of intimidate specific to BMs (meaning that mercs retain the current intimidate) will reduce only melee damage, but at a stronger amount than before. This means that strength-based moves which don't use melee attacks will still deal normal damage even after being afflicted by BM's modified intimidate [This change brings more tactical view to the fact of counting your opponent's cooldowns. Combined with the suggested energy parasite change, the combination of these skills could easily be used to shut down an opponent's damage output if they are not careful about managing their own cooldowns. Note that meteor strike, fire scythe, and frost shards does not count as melee, but frostbite, berzerker, bludgeon, etc... does]
Toxic Grenade: Deals less on-hit damage. Base poison damage of the grenade increases by +10 per turn, each skill point investment will yield an additional +4 damage per turn up from the original values, energy cost per skill point increases by an additional +4, base energy cost increases by 10. -1 turn cooldown [Now that everything has been x10, it's much easier to make cool new changes without making things too weak or too strong. This modified toxic grenade deals tons more damage of poison as you level it up, but also costs a much larger amount of energy. The on-hit damage is nerfed a bit to compensate slightly for the massive cumulative damage boost, but this change hopefully shifts toxic grenade more towards using it when you know your opponent can't field medic out of the deadly poison anymore to really cripple them]
Field Commander: Increases ALL non-poison damage output by a %. If used in 2v2 with an ally who is still alive, automatically buffs both you and your ally but will cost a set +60 energy and the damage boost per person will only be 70% of the original value. [Changes field commander to a damage buff which applies to almost everything. This can be used in 2v2 with a high-damage output ally or on your own high-damage output TLM builds]
Stun Grenade(TLM): Modifies stun grenade. Now always does minimal damage, and skill point investment increases stun chance. Base stun chance is very high, and energy cost is pretty spendy. Deals very little damage, but rage gain is 175% on this skill. As a side note, enemies who are stunned will still take the poison damage from toxic grenade even though their turn is skipped [Use in conjunction with insta-burst combos in 2v2, or to try and stall for turns while building rage and damage from poison to combo an unsuspecting opponent]
Malfunction(CH): Debuffs resistance now rather than technology, and overall will reduce less resistance than before. As a bonus, though, will massively increase the user's deflection chance against malfunctioned opponents, and will greatly reduce malfunctioned targets' chances of deflecting [Lowered offensive capacity as CH has a very neat defensive kit with a massive energy drain and fairly strong/efficient defensive buffs. Buffs defensive capacity by increasing deflection chance by a ridiculous amount, forcing your opponents to decide whether or not striking you is a good idea. However, no longer debuffs technology meaning that skills like bunker buster will not lose any damage while debuffed]
Cheap Shot(CH): Deals bonus damage strike based off of how much more defense/resistance you currently have compared to your target. (changes with primary damage type). Unblockable. In most cases, will deal only slightly stronger damage than a normal strike. [Gives CH another unblockable option. Overall weaker than cheap shot in terms of damage output unless you are amazingly tanky and your opponent isn't or you stack on debuffs like the modified CH malfunction and Armor Annihilator. Mainly used as an unblockable sure-hit skill that does weak bonus damage that can become slightly stronger if used under certain conditions]
Venom Strike(CH): The poison damage is now changed so that on turn 1, you take 1/6 the total cumulative poison damage, turn 2 you take 2/6, and turn 3 you take 3/6. [Doesn't change total damage output, but will nerf the straightforwardness of the poison massacre CH builds because healing by turn 2 of the poison will be extremely rewarding because rather than cutting off the last 1/3 of the total damage, you're actually cutting off 1/2 the total poison damage]
Plasma Grenade: Very weak increased scaling with tech, -10 base energy cost, +30 base damage at all levels. -10% stun chance. However, it is now deflectable. [Previously this skill was never worth investing and its only purpose was for a clutch stun. Now it can be more freely used as a damaging skill which works with malfunction, but at the cost of stun chance and the fact that it is deflectable]
Cheap Shot(BH): Defense/resistance penetration removed. Blocks are now 50% less effective on this attack. Deals %-based modified strike damage (like a weaker version of bludgeon that costs less). Still retains 25% crit chance. Critical hits still cannot happen if blocked. [Makes the skill more straightforward. It pretty much just does more damage and blocks negate less damage if you are blocked while using it.]

Surprisingly enough, the base classes are extremely straightforward already. Mostly just changes to the advanced classes to make them far more tactical so that they're a bit harder to use but more rewarding if used effectively.

So for the second thing on individualized classes, I think they should all fit specific roles/styles in battles. As a very rough and generic example, TMs will be the bursty caster-type class that has extremely high damage output over a few short turns but needs recharge periods in between and are fairly squishy with a lack of healing methods. They can also fit a support-based role with a weak energy drain, a large energy recovery, and, in general, strong defensive buffs. Of course, that was just an example. here are some changes to make each class fit a more specific role.

BH [Straightforward class that heals by dealing higher-than-average damage over a long series of turns. Overall fairly squishy with not the best defensive buffs (they cost a fair amount and BH's energy gain isn't that strong) but can heal a strong amount while also dealing reliable damage to compensate]:
-Venom Strike poison damage now heals if mark of blood is active on an opponent. Venom strike base cost increases by 10, poison damage per turn at all levels lowered by 8.

TM [Mage with very strong skills and extremely high, bursty ENERGY damage output but cannot do much while recovering energy. Also has strong utility in defense matrix and technician, as well as malfunction]:
-Plasmify: Replaces fire scythe (seriously, who actually used this when bludgeon was always better?). Deals support-scaling energy damage to the target. Skill point investment does not increase damage; it instead increases resistance penetration by a fair amount.

Merc [Bulky class which focuses on dealing solid damage. Has the same amount of heals as a TM making it not very reliable in the health regenerating department but will deal bursty damage like mages and can reduce enemy damage output with intimidate while also tanking a lot of hits with hybrid armor. More reliable energy drain than TMs but not as much energy regenerating capabilities. Means mostly to be tanky and support the damage-dealers in 2v2 who are on your team by buffing their damage and helping burst down targets fast]
-They already fit their role pretty well

CH [Defensive class that gets its properties from an amazingly strong energy draining skill, good defensive skills in malfunction and plasma armor, the previously suggested modified malfunction to boost defensive capabilities rather than offensive, and a lot of unblockable skills for reliable but a bit on the weak side of damage output. Can provide good utility for allies, but is amazing at neutralizing enemy damage output]
-Previous suggestions already address this for the most part.

BM [Mixed bag class for the most part. One outstanding feature is its ability to survive and provide humongous amounts of utility through tons of different buffs/debuff skills such as mark of blood, reflex boost, energy shield, and intimidate, as well as a strong energy drain. However, to compensate for this, lacks particularly bursty damage output in any sense at all. A strong duelist in 1v1s, but provides mostly utility rather than damage given the current 2v2 meta in team fights]
-Plasma cannon no longer ignores resistance. However, on use, it will temporarily debuff a target's resistance by 25% for 1 turn. [Mostly for 2v2 utility. Capitalizes on BM's lack of reliable bursty damage]

TLM [Raw tanky supporting class with the previously suggested changes to field commander, battery backup, a reliable and fairly decent energy drainer in atom smasher, and the previously suggested stun grenade changes. Deals extremely weak skill-based damage aside from toxic grenade, but the previous toxic grenade suggestions gives TLM 1 reliable source of damage albeit having essential no burst at all, even less than BMs. Overall lots of utility and extremely weak damage output; not a good duelist but potentially amazing in 2v2s]
-Previous suggestions should suffice for having TLM fulfill this role

Long post so thanks if you read all of it. This is a lot of what would seem like balance changes, but I suggested the changes to change the concept of classes in general to be more individualized; I did NOT suggest the changes to rebalance skills that were previously unbalanced.
Epic  Post #: 1
8/17/2014 10:33:51   
theholyfighter
Member

Perhaps marking the Skills bold will benefit a lot to those reading.

I've thought of similar things like these, a theme for each class,

The idea came from Beta: at that time, BHs focus on health, TMs focus on energy, and Mercs focus on Tanks. All three can do considerable damage, altho sometimes BHs may be a bit oped in 1vs1 and Mercs in 2vs2.
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
8/17/2014 12:12:07   
nowras
Member

I think u dont like the BM STR PARASITE build that was 100% made by me and everyone copied it STOP NERFING people quit this game cuz of nerfing we need buffing. All classes suggestions are accepted except BM.
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
8/17/2014 14:56:43   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


Umm, I haven't even played like any ED for over 2 weeks and therefore I have seen pretty much no strength BM builds. I also am thankfully not in the level range to fight the huge abundance of level 40s.

But to answer your question, no, I don't like the BM Strength parasite build you made even though I have never even played against it in the past month because I dislike about 90% of strength builds with extreme prejudice since they are monotonous, not fun to play against, and make 1v1 boring because all you can expect are the same genre of build which forces battles to have little strategy and mostly whoever gets the statistical advantage wins.
Epic  Post #: 4
8/17/2014 16:47:19   
Variation
Member
 

@nowras: Not everyone copied your build. My BM build was made by me long before yours was made and I have yet to lose against players using your build. Also you refused to tell him what was wrong with his BM suggestions. If you're gonna attack him at least provide constructive criticism with it. If you don't your posts in this thread are meaningless.

I will say I don't agree with the BM intimidate suggestion. While it does sound more strategic from a planning standpoint, it also seems very easy to manipulate. For instance, I could just spam strike until you decide to use the skill on me. I don't even have to use my non-melee based attacks, I could just save those until you decide to intimidate me. With that being said it sounds like a bad trade off from the way Intimidate currently works. I'm more comfortable knowing it affects all moves that work based on strength (including your sidearm/cores). I'm satisfied with the way Intimidate works now because it does take more effort to avoid its effect.

< Message edited by Variation -- 8/17/2014 18:44:26 >
Post #: 5
8/17/2014 20:19:47   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


@Variation: I see where you're coming from, but here are my thoughts:

1. Mix yeti into this.
2. Combine with azrael's will
These 2 things are equipment-dependent but are nonetheless very notable strategies given the suggested intimidate changes. Also note that should someone need to pop off a sidearm/aux core (unfortunately, not many useful ones exist aside from azrael's will and azrael's torment), this will set their ranged weapons into CD. Another strategy that could be implemented with the suggested intimidate change is that reflex boost will boost block chance, and BMs have a semi-decent dex-caster skill tree, so the intimidate changes could greatly benefit previously unusable dexterity-based tank builds.
Epic  Post #: 6
8/19/2014 13:47:16   
Remorse
Member

quote:

But to answer your question, no, I don't like the BM Strength parasite build you made even though I have never even played against it in the past month because I dislike about 90% of strength builds with extreme prejudice since they are monotonous, not fun to play against, and make 1v1 boring because all you can expect are the same genre of build which forces battles to have little strategy and mostly whoever gets the statistical advantage wins.


Couldn't have said it better myself,
Str builds don't necessarily need to be nerfed but hard counters need to become viable and or buffed.


This way it's not a factor of nerfing them so they win less but the same boring way,
Rather add counters so their win is determined how well the can avoid being countered with a lot more emphasis on strategy.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 8/19/2014 13:48:41 >
Epic  Post #: 7
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