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Endless Focus (up to 7 on lvl 40)

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9/3/2014 9:57:46   
Stonehawk
Member

Focus helps on preventing people from abusing a single stat, but focus 5 can still abuse health or tech, for example. Why focus ends on 5? Wouldn't it be fair to make it usable up to the most points we can balance on all stats? (It would be 7, on max lvl). This would give a bit more variety and the use of all stats the game offers in different ways, not only balancing up to 45 and abusing the needed stats. I already simulated this and robot damage wouldn't te be too strong, and since we use points on all stats, it's not a certain hit.

For example, a pyro fly with focus 5 and maxed tech would hardly be deflected because of too high tech, whereas the focus 7 would have higher damage but not so high tech, having a higher chance to be deflected against higher tech. I don't think this would be so abusive, just giving more options of builds and a bit more flexibility to robots!
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
9/3/2014 11:10:26   
Remorse
Member

I don't think it helps with variety at all,

Controlling stat abusers should not mean the use of a feature which is hypocritical in destroying variety.


Focus should be completely removed and robots should improve with a combination of tech and support. (Stat abusers should be dealt with directly)


Adding more focus will not create variety, what it will do is this,


Change variety from being 5 focus and stat abusers to, 7 focus and stat abusers.

5 focus in this scenario will become obsolete similar to how 3/4 focus is basically obsolete now, and also similar to how all the builds focus made unviable on it's creation became obsolete.

Epic  Post #: 2
9/3/2014 12:44:20   
Stonehawk
Member

Focus would just increase the use of all stats, instead of ignoring an unneeded stat to abuse other stats.

Increasing robot damage with tech and support? There are already good tech + support builds, this would just make an unstoppable combo, offensive tech skills + awesome robot damage + high defensive skills because of support + higher chance of going first + higher chance of crits. I think Epicduel aims for balance, and not for stats abusing.

By the way, about my suggestion, I already simulated and robot damage wouldn't be that high if there existed focus 7. Here is an example just proving that robot won't be OP with this:

Focus + all the stats on tech (blood hawk damage as an example, lvl 40 character, no legendary points on robot and using a sword, +35 on tech):

Focus 4 + max tech = 584 - 635 dmg
Focus 5 + max tech = 602 - 649 dmg
Focus 6 + max tech = 621 - 664 dmg
Focus 7 + max tech = 640 - 678 dmg

Don't forget when you're using focus, you are using your stat points on all stats, not only defensive stats, so it means you'll distribute it on offensive and defensive points, having less points to use on health, for example. It should give more power to the robots to counter the lack of defense and health.

This gives more possibilities, and doesn't abuse a single stat. I think it should be tested by Devs. I don't see any reason for focus 5 being max focus. I think focus first came when max lvl was 35. Now that we can go UP to lvl 40 there are more points to distribute, and focus CAN be increased up to 7...
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
9/3/2014 14:42:27   
Rayman
Banned


 Focus stat came in beta when the lvl cap was just increased to the lvl 31 and focus used to improve the DMG of everything (Zooka,Guns,primaries), they got rid of that because of balance problems but looks like it came back in form of legendary ranks.

Anyway about the suggestion, im not sure about it, 6 focus will actually give good power to the robots and 7 even more combined with the legendary ranks of robot dmg and stalling the battle for the use of the infernal android special can be quite powerfull.

If you add 7 focus, probably nobody will use the 5 focus and start using just 7, and whats your stat req for 7 focus?, 55 on each stat? Because i friend tested it with 40 legendary ranks and it did quite good and it would be more powerfull with the help of 7 focus helping the bot dmg.

< Message edited by Rayman -- 9/3/2014 14:48:18 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
9/3/2014 14:56:05   
Stonehawk
Member

@Rayman

Yeah, 55 on all stats is as much as we can do it. But adding that much on every stat means higher chance of being blocked or deflected plus lower health and not really high defense either. It's like a risky build, but with a strong robot damage. I dunno if it would work, and probably people would prefer focus 5 to add more tech and I even see some using 4 focus for stronger tech skills and higher chance to deflect... It's worth testing, why not? Focus 7 will rarely be used because it's probably killed easier, it's just a matter of choosing what suits you well.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
9/3/2014 23:17:25   
Thylek Shran
Member

At least 6 focus would be nice. However a high focus can be weak now when being lvl 40
so there is not much against it. Only BHs can abuse it with Infernal Adroid as they can
benefit from the basic physical melee attack at most until they can rage on or after round
10 the energy robot special attack. But this is more a balance problem of IA and not of
focus. Why is there no energy version of IA available to prevent abuse by some classes
and builds ?!
DF Epic  Post #: 6
9/3/2014 23:38:27   
Mother1
Member

@ thylek shran

Back when this robot came out there was no energy and physical sets for robots. This didn't come until they made the special order with the are you yeti t shirt when you would get both the baby and Dark yeti's.

But with the Assault bot and Baby yeti being the expections due to either (A) a special event (The baby yeti's energy form with the dark yeti) Or bringing back a rare robot while buffing it (Rusted assault bot) The rest of the robots have been left with one counterpart.

I doubt they would make an Energy gamma bot with a physical laser seeing as this robot is suppose to be permanent rare.
Epic  Post #: 7
9/4/2014 20:03:17   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 If this were to be a thing, then:

Diminishing returns would need to begin scaling dramatically at a higher value than the current one.
Epic  Post #: 8
9/6/2014 11:40:18   
kosmo
Member
 

 5 focus is strong enought, this suggestion is op :)
Epic  Post #: 9
9/8/2014 17:13:20   
Stonehawk
Member

No, it's not. Lower focus gives possibilities to higher defense builds, for example, while higher focus gives more balanced builds. The higher the focus, you got less points for defensive and health stats. It's not OP at all. This is just encourage people not to use extra high health and/or abusing a single stat, like tech mages do with dex for example.


Oh, and this suggestion won't break the game nor benefit a single class. It works for everyone, so since everyone can do it, it's not OP!

< Message edited by Stonehawk -- 9/8/2014 17:14:19 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
9/8/2014 17:36:47   
suboto
Member

I support this focus 7 suggestion why? because this would make all the stats more useful and on the plus side support would be more useful again. focus 5 is obtainable at lvl28 thats a 12lvl gap focus 7 is a must.
current focus builds
45str
45dex
101 or 102tech
45support
or
str build focus
rely on str/dex abuse
with focus 7 it would be
55str
55dex
55tech
55support
Remaining 16 free stats to raise hp or help out a certain stat.
honestly when focus 5 was out i used 950hp but that had to do with agility being around and passive armor
but since focus 5 is underpowered, passive armor is gone, and agility is gone i use 750hp
and make my tech 102 as a focus user im pretty much stuck with 750hp and 102tech
but with focus 7 i could do
wow
950hp
55+0str
55+35dex
55+35tech
55+14support
and there is the return of the balanced build i surely hope they make focus 7 but until then im useing this build regardless sick of useing a tech build
This build makes all my stats useful and keeps them balanced

< Message edited by suboto -- 9/8/2014 17:45:02 >
Epic  Post #: 11
9/18/2014 5:38:54   
Sauerkraut
Member

Supported. Stat-wise everything has changed/evolved during the last years except focus.
Epic  Post #: 12
9/18/2014 7:03:53   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 I don't see the point of this. Don't fix something that isn't broken.
Post #: 13
9/18/2014 10:19:23   
suboto
Member

There is a point in this it increases variety in builds which we need heres examples of why we need this:
build possibilities
Focus 7
950hp
55+0str
55+35dex
55+35tech
55+14support
Focus 6
50+0str
50+35dex
86+35tech
50+14support
focus 5
750hp
45+0str
45+35dex
101+35tech
45+14support
^ This is three builds that would allow me to choose from for my tlm which would be nice because currently i only use the focus 5 tech build. I just want to get the most out of my stats. I have been a tech focus 5 user since the day it was released. I've seen hp changed and str changed and the rate of block for dex change but nothings happened to focus and thats not good. When these two focuses are ingame that will update all the stats.

< Message edited by suboto -- 9/18/2014 10:22:47 >
Epic  Post #: 14
9/19/2014 12:21:03   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 And what's stopping you from using those 'focus 6' and 'focus 7' builds without a buff to focus? I use a 'focus 6' build myself and I get along fine. You can't just assert 'there's been a lot of changes recently, but focus hasn't been changed, so it should' - you haven't given a convincing reason why changes should be made.
Post #: 15
9/19/2014 13:37:46   
suboto
Member

Why should there have to be a reason its clear as day focus is obtainable at level26 so why not focus 6/7 we got the stats so we should get the most out of it. This is like saying oh str is around 100 why should I get the same progression bonus. Or for hp why should we not get nerfed for having over 1000hp when in fact robots get nerf do to no upper level added focus.
i attempted focus 7 but failed at using it against 10 str/hp/dex builds due to the weak spot in focus. Sure my block/crit/chance to go 1st went up and my str but the core of the build depleted
str builds were meant to be like gladiators example they unleash massive damage but their block rate shouldnt be high. Knights are like focus builds they specialize in defensive strategy but have other means of offensive moves.
Currently the block rate for the knight players are less which isnt good. Adding this focus 6 and 7 would improve the knights counter to str builds but weaken their deflective advantage.
750hp
45+0str
45+35dex
101+35tech
45+14support
vs
1250hp
88+35str
68+35dex
19tech+14
21support+0
^
The overall advantage is str build has way more block chance but its like they are useing a axe rather then a sword/shield

Now add in focus 6 and 7
750hp
50+0str
50+35dex
86+35tech
50+14support
vs
1250hp
88+35str
68+35dex
19tech+14
21support+0
^ begins to narrow the shield like protection a str build user has but increase the str builds gun in being more less likely to deflect.
Plus add the robots bonus would improve counter to the str caster. Also it would slightly lower the knight like users armor making slight improvements to the gladiator axe like user. Making the knight s/s person more offensive

Focus 7
950hp
55+0str
55+35dex
55+35tech
55+14support
vs
1250hp
88+35str
68+35dex
19tech+14
21support+0
This now incouraged the focus 7 user to raise their hp/str/dex/support to even out with their tech. the armor is even lower and the deflection rate is even lower so the str casters gun is further more effect.
Adding the robots bonus is necessary because now that the stats even out the robot needs its focus raised.
This not only makes more variety but makes every skill far more useful.This would incourage more creative builds like
Grenade builds/finisher builds/ multi builds/ etc...
Example of a multi build
dages shotgun
biotanical robot
multi skill
^ would make 2v2 more interesting
Grenade builds
Wouldnt just be level 1 but 1-10
more finisher builds

I just feel the current media of builds to choice from would be far more wider in the above way^
Would be fun to try out these other builds.
No class would be stronger then the other since it improves ever skill.
Epic  Post #: 16
9/19/2014 13:45:55   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 Robots are weapons. Like other weapons, there is a very reasonable limit to their base damage. If you want to increase bot damage, add to tech, just as players have to add to strength or support to increase weapon damage.

And of course you don't add focus 7-level stats for the sake of seeing nice round numbers - you do it because it suits specific purposes for your build. Else you'll inevitably fail.

I really don't see your reasoning. Are you saying that current focus builds can't compete against STR builds? Firstly, that's patently untrue. Secondly, even if it is true, the solution is not to buff focus to the point where the only viable builds are focus builds and STR builds.
Post #: 17
9/19/2014 13:59:36   
suboto
Member

1st- Robots are not set like weapons they scale off focus and get slight improvement with tech. Adding the other 2 focuses would increase in variety.
2nd- I didnt say they cant compete with str builds but they are rather weaker in spots such as block rate/offensively.
3rd- Adding the focus 6/7 would make the block rate/offensive weakness slightly less but make the armor/deflection rate lower but more balanceing.
4th-Hp would be more useful for focus 6/7
5th- I wasnt trying to make only focus/str builds i was trying to increase variety of focus builds for upper level players.
6th- With this support would be alive more and later on support would get a buff.
Seeing as support multi now does 90% dmg from 85% dmg and cost 20energy less support builds got a buff.
7th- if you invest in all your stats to equal the same thats a hybrid build adding the focus 6/7 would incourage players not to just do +35/+35/+14 but rather test out 55+21str 55+21dex 55+21tech 55+21support adding the robot top 2 tiers would put the robot on par with the build set up.

Overall the lack in robotic power is why i dont use this build seeing as its a cracked build with no reward of added robotic damage but il try it without the added bonus

< Message edited by suboto -- 9/19/2014 14:16:07 >
Epic  Post #: 18
9/19/2014 16:14:16   
Remorse
Member

^ The problem is not a lack of robot power,

Robots have more then enough power so much so that they limit variety for stat rounded builds.


The problem here is The abuse builds,
Don't compare robot power to them, they are clearly broken and need balancing separate.

Buffing robots to match these spam builds only limits builds variety to these two types.


They should greatly nerf spam builds/make these builds much easier and reliable to counter, and rework focus, in my opinion of coarse.



< Message edited by Remorse -- 9/19/2014 16:15:17 >
Epic  Post #: 19
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