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11/15/2014 18:36:25   
Xamurai
Member

http://epicduel.artix.com/images/screenshots/BetaEvolution_shot_4.jpg
Alrighty then. I have so many things to say I don't know where to begin. Oh, lets start by saying, I miss when battles used to be like that ^ Fast, Fun with epic animations and smoother game play. You may say that the skill animations have stayed the same, well they don't LOOK the same, let's be honest.

Ok, I hate how passives have been removed and the base of every battle is now MP gaining and retaining. All skills now essentially Drain the opponents MP and give it to you. ED never used to be about Destroying your opponents Mana pool as opposed to going directly for health, Mana was usually used up in 2-3 turns, if you were a focus player, you managed to, on average, keep more MP for longer seems you needed it for heals and the sort. Now, EMP grenade now steals MP and adds to your, as opposed to draining yours and your opponents mana pool, We have piston punch, and generator, frost shards (all which cost energy as well) I think this game has become to focused on elongating battles instead of making them as fun as they used to be. Now. When you mods read this, I beg you to take into consideration that yes, the forums have rules, but, we also need to be able to express a few touchy subjects openly at times. This is what i plan to do now.
http://forums2.battleon.com/f/avatars/EpicDuel/Symbols/ED-BetaBadge.jpg
I think one of this games biggest mistake was removing passives, A few other deadly mistakes are:
1. Allowing Non Varium players to purchase varium exclusive weaponry, It no longer distinguishes the players who support the game and always have with thousands of dollars for most of us, to those who play for free, i think it is not only unfair, but disgusting.
2. making ALL cores revolve around energy gain or consumption (Robot cores do not count) But if you use Meteor shower for example, It deducts 100 mp. Frost shards deducts 90 from you, and steals 50 mp over 3 turns from the opponent. (pro tip: It is generally better to use shards than a bulk MP steal ex- 150mp in one shot. because it puts pressure on them to use their remaining MP when they did not yet want to, which can help allot if your opponent is pressured into making a hasty/wrong move.)
3. And this has to be bought up. 6 classes, I find the concept of incorporating an extra 3 classes into the game us unnecessary, It not only makes it harder to balance all 6 (which has never been done) but it also allows for classes to become OP when balance is not 100% helpful. (like everyone is flocking between BH and BM) wasting varium and many people selling their gear, so that they don't lose every battle.

http://epicduelwiki.com/images/epicduelwiki.com/f/fd/GammaTester.png

What I am about to say, Is what has pretty much been expressed by everyone. EpicDuel is no longer as fun as it used to be, And that is a proven fact. And the reason it's a fact is because I, and literally 99% of Alpha-Delta players say so. A "balanced" game is not always a fun game. Omega at the very beginning when it was absolutely CRAZY was more fun, fast paced adrenaline fueled wins. The fact that the attempts to balance the game have just lead to longer, more frustrating battles. Skill is hardly involved anymore. Now its just And this is literally it. Bot/mark intimidate/smoke/mark strike/strike strike/strike strike/strike strike/strike strike/strike strike/strike strike/strike strike/strike Strike/gun maybe throw in a few blood commanders, bezerkers, energy parasite and a few other class specific skills.

http://epicduelwiki.com/images/epicduelwiki.com/a/aa/DeltaKnight.png
Now, I will finish by saying, the Devs may own and control the game, but WE are the players, we honestly should have input in to what we think is best and more fun, Like it's literally almost Agonizing to see what is happening to the community and the 100s of thousands of players that have quit, yes, literally hundreds of thousands, because what we knew was fun, has turned into a dreaded word, this word being Omega. Why not see what the community actually wants? We all know what we want. bring back passives, get rid of cored, bring back boosters, no more 10x hp (even though it solved many rounding and decimal problems) back to older animations, etc-

probably the single worst part of ED right now is that there is no VARIATIONin builds anymore, because all stats on all weapons are exactly the same. it is soooo frustrating. varium gives almost 0 advantage anymore, except for a few promo packages, which all got changed to Needing mana, back to the previous point. So, we buy weapons, we pay for something, and the thing we paid for gets changed a few months later? No. the games dying player base is proof of what i say is true. people may say that it is because new games like league are taking over from browser based games, this is NOT the case, many retired players, and this is literally 1000's of them, say if it was beta-delta, they would still be playing happily.

last point, For so SO many of us, when we look at old videos and screenshots, and talk about the old times, we get really sad and upset. A game is supposed to be fun, Not bring people to the verge of tears. For the last time, i know that this is not going to change anything. but just, open your eyes and see what is right in front of you... Ciao guys.


Edit: Removed Image tags.

< Message edited by Xamurai -- 11/15/2014 19:00:12 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
11/15/2014 18:54:22   
Daph Duck
Member

The above is pretty much everything wrong with omega in a nutshell. While there are some good things in omega that improved the game as a whole all you have to do is do one or two battles to figure out why the game has lost thousands of players and is in its current state. I guess some people still find a little fun in this game, myself included, but if you were around to experience the entirety of Beta or gamma or delta, Omega is a joke. No one wants to play a game where winning is based off of luck or having a major level advantage. And even though making everything available to everybody can look like it'll bring in more new players at first, it's actually a really bad business moves because there are many, many players in the past who spent hundreds even thousands of real dollars to make themselves God and I can't imagine that anybody wouldn't be mad if they came back to find out that all of their precious things are available for credits now.
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
11/15/2014 18:56:52   
alwins obliteration
Member
 

 I completely agree. There is no variation in builds and everyone using same weapons.

< Message edited by alwins obliteration -- 11/15/2014 18:57:37 >
Post #: 3
11/15/2014 19:01:03   
aymanrocks
Member

I agree with Xamurai 100%

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AQW Epic  Post #: 4
11/15/2014 19:06:21   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 I try to stay pretty neutral on my stance for the game so I can come and go as I please but I do want to point one that I have learned from my five years of playing EpicDuel.

The only variation that came into existence in previous phases was because the flavor of the month build required a past promotional weapon to work at it's full power and those without that exact gear had to copy it to the best of their ability with the gear they had.

Late Beta when HLTM was all the rage for the varium players I, and many other F2P's, had created much weaker copies using only F2P play. That isn't variation we were all the same build but because of the gear we had at our disposal the builds worked at a different level.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 5
11/15/2014 19:48:18   
ambien
Member

l am a very old player which means l started 2 days after beta started, an l agree with Xamurai 100%. even more if their was more like 200%. omega came ed died plain an simple . why did over 3/4 of the old time players leave well Xamurai hit it right on the head. l have spent a few coin on this game but l am done spending coin on ed until some thing happens, like a complete rework of the battle system, cool downs, bots damage,blocks, critz so on an so on an if they would listen to the players that post on the forum.

it seems like when players post what is the real problem on ed, two things happen ( you get a pm saying your post is gone ) or the forum is not for crying about the game or say this and that,about the game.

l do agree again with Xamurai 200% ed needs a big change from the top, down to the bottom.



my thoughts on this

always the syfy

< Message edited by ambien -- 11/15/2014 20:01:31 >
Post #: 6
11/15/2014 20:00:58   
Mother1
Member

I agree with some of your points but at the same time I disagree with some.

Remember how you told me that removing things people spent their money on would cause an uproar? Well removing all the core from the game would be doing like what happened with enhancements all over again.

Remember any old promo before omega people had to spend real money to get, and all of the new promo's are the same way. Just flat out removing them without any or poor compensation will drive even more people away from the game which at this point they can't afford.

The other thing I disagree on is the removal of the x10 change.

Without this change I would have to spend 3-4 points to see something go up by one point due to decimals rounding everything up or down. Where as now I can see how every stat point affects my build, and this change also fixed all of those broken decimal numbers and screwed up rounding which has thrown off more than enough duels.

As for the rest of the changes you are upset about I can agree with a lot of them. However, believe it or not the very players in this form suggested just about all of them.

Passive to active change
Adding cost to cores
the list goes on.

So to be honest not all of these changes that were made are the staffs idea but the players.
Epic  Post #: 7
11/15/2014 20:15:00   
ambien
Member

hold please mother1 the players did not come up with this sad sad battle system, crazy bot damage, all the blocks, and ctriz. they did not change that the deves and staff did that. the players did not ask them to stripe away enchments, the deves did, the players did not ask that it would cost a arm an a leg for cores to buy, or update weapons by your level with unreal credit cost the staff or deves did that. so l would say 80% of the changes to ed ( the game makers did it ) not the players other wise their would be more players playing.

sad that this topic has been going on since omega landed on ed over a year an really nothing has been done only a few bandages here an there to fix the problem for a bit or l should say to cover the problem up. really nothing has been done to fix it like Xamurai said



always the syfy
Post #: 8
11/15/2014 20:30:00   
Mother1
Member

@ Ambien

I said some of the things not all of them, and I was talking about the changes that happened in omega.

I remember seeing a topic in the past about removing passives that was suggested by guess who? the players.

Adding cost to cores? Also a topic that was suggested by the players.

While I agree that many of the changes you mentioned the players didn't ask for such as the removal of enhancements and the inflation of prices due to Varium getting a nerf. a lot of the changes in omega came because players suggested them.

The change to make Energy parasite damage do 85% damage was suggested by the players.

Making the strike to energy parasite blockable, I remember suggesting that one myself.

Juggernaut button? Suggestion made by players.

10X damage? suggestion made by players.

My point being is that while some changes were made by the staff themselves, others were idea the staff got from the players.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 11/15/2014 20:31:14 >
Epic  Post #: 9
11/15/2014 20:34:38   
Xamurai
Member

Well In all honesty, They should of known that sometimes, people make crappy suggestions, and learn to distinguish between the 2.

Snip. No offsite links. Scakk

To be honest. I liked some of the Techno age battle backgrounds ya know?

< Message edited by Scakk -- 11/16/2014 11:17:07 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
11/15/2014 21:35:34   
Mother1
Member

@ Xamurai

Here is a link to the first locked topic about passives with the staff's response to it.
Here is another topic about the subject and the lock came with an answer from the staff about it.

Point being that is that even if the every single players came out and said they wanted passives back unless the staff changes their mind on the matter passives won't be coming back.

Personally I was against the removal of passives myself as well as adding cost to cores. However others were for these because they wanted the game to become more planning based and less spammy.
Epic  Post #: 11
11/15/2014 23:44:43   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 To be honest, the removal of passives itself was pretty much the killing blow to the fun factor. Previous developments had already started ED on its huge downfall, but the huge emphasis on energy stealing now and the change from passives to actives definitely finished the job.

If they staff doesn't want to bring back passives again, then that's their decision; I'm just gonna say that ignoring the fact that passives should be back in the game is just gonna be lost opportunity to bring ED back to its former glory.
Epic  Post #: 12
11/16/2014 0:13:44   
The Jop
Member

I actually prefer long battles where you have to think, being able to use any weapon you want, and paying players not having a big advantage for the record.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 13
11/16/2014 5:42:22   
Satafou
Member

The main issue with Epicduel in terms of fun is simple. Epicduel needs to decide what they want. Do they want to think of it as a business perspective? Or as a perfectly balanced game? Because right now they are in the middle of both. If they desire for a more business like approach, in other words a more beta-delta style enchantments or something along the same scales would need to come back in. What people don't realize, which Xam has stated. Is that balance isn't fun. If this game was to ever be 100% balanced, it would be very boring and actually luck factors would determine the winner every single battle,unless you were vs a complete idiot. With unbalance and the quickest/easiest way to get stronger is from buying, i.e. varium, then it promotes more people to buy varium. However now that not only are 99% of items credit only and even that 1% that isn't for credits, will eventually become credits. All items have the exact same stats and requirements, if items had different base stats and you could only upgrade the base stats selected, then that would of been perfect,although for some reason the devs came to the conclusion that there should be zero difference between weapons other than looks. Not only has this severely affected their chances of gaining as much money as possible, it has also resulted even with complaints "too much art work not enough balance". However if weapons gave unique stats again and unique requirements, if that weapon was stronger than my current i would instantly buy it, i don't care if it's the most ugly weapon in the world, this game is about power and if it has low requirements and a slightly stronger selection of stats, i'd buy it. This would make a HUGE additional amount of money for Epicduel,but it would also keep players happy. Now if they want this game to be completely balanced and for the winner to be determined by having the greater wits, they need to do the following at the bare minimum. Fix how rage is gained. 100 dmg strike and 250 dmg strike both gain 20% of rage. A block gains 25%. If someone blocks, lets say your infernal androids physical attack which would do lets say 350 dmg. You lose out on 350 dmg and only get 5% extra rage. First turn would also have to balance out with possibly 20% rage advantage at the beginning. Another thing that must get sorted if this game desires the perfect balance approach is luck factors. This would be by far the biggest issue if this game was perfectly balanced. Not only are they random, (defeating the purpose of outwitting), but they are also illogical. I've had a person with ZERO dex block me before and this was before that passive block core existed. That should be impossible to happen,but yet it still happened. 17 support stuns just as much as 45 support. 17 support goes before 45 support and also crits a lot as well. I'm all for luck factors, it makes the game interesting but even at this point of the game even one factor can change a certain win to a lose and that is wrong. I'm aware the devs haven't though of a solution for this other than completely removing them, which they'd never do, so i'm going to be nice enough and suggestion a possible solution which would result in you controlling luck factors and base of each stat you get X amount. So control luck factors you say? Yes, in order for this too work as in making wits win every battle we would need to add in 4 more core slots. For every 50 BASE stats you get one luck factor. 50 dex =1 block, 50 support= one crit, 50 tech= 1 deflect ect. Now how it would work in battle, is all about prediction. You will have to guess what move your opponent does next. When making your turn and you want to aux, but also block your opponents berzerker. You click your insta block core and then your aux, these luck factor cores are hidden from your opponent, otherwise they'd be useless. However when you aux he could also use the deflect core. That's how it would roughly balance out, however the %luck cores would have to be removed, which players should get 100% refund for. Stuns would also be 100% stun rate, (note everyone's stun would be 100% stun, so this isn't broken, if anything it's a lot more balanced.) However i'm not going into great depth of this idea as it would require a LONG time of testing to ensure it would do as i assume it would. This game isn't quite ready for such a big balance change yet also. However my point still stands that Epicduel has to decide now how they want their game to be run, perfect balance or as a buisness, if they try to do both as they currently are they will just lose players, profit and they simply won't reach their goal.
Post #: 14
11/16/2014 5:51:22   
elite dark slayer
Member

I don't know what you guys are really talking about anymore. Back in the old days, it was pay to win and so I left and lost my account. Now, Its more fun for those who don't spend varium because their various posteriors aren't getting kicked by those who do. What's wrong with that?
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 15
11/16/2014 5:55:33   
Satafou
Member

What is wrong with that (in the views of loyal paying customers who have spent over 1000$ on Epicduel) Is that they feel ripped off, due to the fact players who do nothing to contribute to the game, who don't even help fund Epicduel have the exact same power. Why should those players who have spent a very large amount of money be equal to those who don't spend a dime? It's a fair argument really and so many people felt this way they quit, hundreds possibly thousands quit because of this.
Post #: 16
11/16/2014 5:59:44   
elite dark slayer
Member

And did not people who bought varium get things like the kartherax weaponry?
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 17
11/16/2014 6:10:51   
Ranloth
Banned


 Each to their own with the issues the game may or may not have - objective or subjective - but I don't understand two things, and both are massive contradictions:

  • Short battles were fun because of their fast pace, but I remember there being complaints about how one block/deflect/crit can change everything. Now that the battles are longer, and the effect of luck is spread out over more turns, meaning its impact is smaller than it used to be in the past. One way to nerf these kind of effects, is to extend the battle length - and it seems like the idea was bad. Battles taking more time means more possibilities in terms of strategy, which is to promote a bit more creative builds, and yet it's also a bad idea.

  • There is also the x10 change, which was to improve balance and not let 3-4 skill points go to waste, due to the flawed rounding system. It made every stat point worth something, but players want it removed because it was simpler back then. Striving towards balance, and then wanting a crucial balance change removed because it's apparently a little bit too confusing is contradictory. You cannot hope for balance, and want one of the crucial balance changes to be removed completely, only because it'd be simpler to play without it.
    • Awesomenauts has recently adapted the x10 concept too, purely to fix the rounding issues and buff some of their skills which worked on %-basis, thus resulting in more accurate values.
    		•
    AQ Epic  Post #: 18
    11/16/2014 6:26:53   
    Xamurai
    Member

    		@Satafou i don't know who you are but I love you.
    @Trans Luck is still the dictating factor in Omega, it's even worse now actually.
    @Elite Dark Slayer Considering the fact that paying money into the game to become more powerful than f2p's was not only a fair, but good/fun system, not to mention funded and kept the game running. It is a disgrace that varium and weapons purchased with varium no longer have any major benefits. This game is but an empty husk of its former self. And anyone who denys that is only fooling themselves. Not to mention, Way more players than you would expect were paid players back in the day, so yes it may be more fun for people who cannot afford varium. But then again, again the f2p's now say they would rather have the old phases back, and do you know what sucks the most? This game is already beyond repair, there is oficially nothing they can do to fix it anymore. Non vars ALREADY have var weapons. All weapons ALREADY have the same stats, and everyone has ALREADY gotten fed up and quit. The game we once used to love and cherish, is no longer the game we see today, not even close.

    Quick Fix, Right an algorithm checking if players purchased a weapon with varium or credits, If credits/lower stats and damage. If varium/Original weapon damage and stats for example, celtic cleaver purchased with credits, gets 20% less stats, and 20 less damage, Not only would this make the paid players feel like they are worth something again, it would also stop all builds being exactly the same, After that, Remove cores, Add passives back, Remove 10x system, refund and compensate player on a 50% scale for cores purchased. Eg- 20 total cores purchased at 10,000 credits each -100,000 credit refund.

    Edit: The damage, yes, damage, that has been done to the game can be almost fully repaired with some gutsy risk taking.

    < Message edited by Xamurai -- 11/16/2014 6:29:12 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 19
    11/16/2014 7:08:06   
    ConQrR
    Member

    		Long story short, I agree with Xam 100%
    Epic  Post #: 20
    11/16/2014 7:16:40   
    Gepard Acht
    Member

    		I would comment on every point you say, but I wont.

    In other words I agree with what you say
    AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 21
    11/16/2014 13:52:15   
    FameFortune
    Member
     

    		 Hold on now... Your forgetting about the people who would be simply losing because they didn't "pay to win" right? Thats pathetic. I doubt that pay to win would be enacted again because those who don't want to pay with money instead of time will rage quit. But I guess thats all you care about tossing f2p out the window and let ye ole youtubers come back and fight fellow pay to winners righto chap? Useless if everyone has the advantage. At that point is it really an advantage? The majority is f2p if all of them lose to people with an unfair advantage they quit, there goes a huge chunk of the player base.

    End rant.

    I would like to see passives (everyone on the forums want this), free cores (buying and removing and buying is tiresome, id rather them not be remove as it adds more to factors to think about during battles), and luck to be abolished (I don't know about all of you but I have to use skill to win EVERY TIME as I have to tried to do said thing - increase more of a specific stats to get better luck / getting passive cores - but they don't help at all)

    End of Suggestions.
    Post #: 22
    11/16/2014 16:30:09   
    Exodasbr
    Member

    		I normally avoid these discussion but I personally think "certain aspects" p2w worked well for this game, which in my opinion is quite niche. (BTW I havn't spent thousands)

    I wasn't varium till mid delta (excluding my beta weps), I remember in beta fighting Varium players and thinking I wish I could be that powerful and tbh it is this which made me buy varium in the first place.

    Edit: Reworded slightly

    < Message edited by Exodasbr -- 11/16/2014 16:32:21 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 23
    11/16/2014 16:31:06   
    Mother1
    Member

    		@ famefortune

    Xamurai has a point about two things. The majority of the players that were playing the game before were in fact Varium players. This was because most Non Varium players upon getting to the levels where Varium players were ended up leaving due to being made punching bags even if they had massive skill versus due to the power gap.

    However, the attempt they made to change all this wasn't the smartest one IMO. Had they just made enhancements cheaper like the legendary ranks are now the playing field would have been drastically evened because it was mostly enhancements that made non varium players punching bags to even the most unskilled of varium players.

    Plus if they had done this the massive backlash that came from removing enhancements would have been severely reduced. While some players would have been upset about the enhancements credit prices being reduced at least Varium players would have kept their enhancements and not lose their investment.
    Epic  Post #: 24
    11/16/2014 16:32:39   
    The Jop
    Member

    		It doesn't matter how many people didn't like it. Pay to win is not how you run a PvP game. New players who win using actual skill instead of money will replace them over time.

    < Message edited by The Jop -- 11/16/2014 16:33:08 >

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