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Let heal increase with support

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1/16/2015 14:36:37   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 By allowing heal to increase with support you can efficiently counter skills without nerfing cores/other skills. It would be a great counter for poison, hatchling rush, even debuffs. I don't see why heal isn't increasing with support already
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 1
1/16/2015 14:41:12   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 You might not have played through the pre-Omega era when field medic was completely broken due to support scaling, with support abusers running amok and worse, 5 focus users who added more than 45 support. Field medic now has a higher base to compensate for the removal of support scaling. The skills you mentioned can be easily and effectively countered through other means, and I don't see any reason to change Field Medic.
Post #: 2
1/16/2015 15:08:44   
Drianx
Member

This has been suggested multiple times, and I support it. Field Medic scaling with Support should have been reduced in order to reduce abuse effect, but should have not been removed completely. This, together with reducing crit damage ignore and deflection chance moved to Technology, Support has been nerfed to the ground. I preferred the times when Support was on par with Strength in terms of overall benefit. Now it is way behind.
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
1/16/2015 16:04:59   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 I have been playing then and my suggestion would be to Nerf the scaling as opposed to making heal the same for all
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 4
1/16/2015 16:06:25   
Justingbieberfangirl
Member
 

 I support this. Support has been meaningless ever since the Nerf to it from heal.(Support feels left out)

And to Silver Sky Magician

There are endless possibilities to solve that problem e.g. requirements from weapons do not affect how effective support is. Or heal at the begining scales really slowly with support and scales quicker the more you have e.g. 10 support increases your heal by 5 and 100 support increases your heal by 100.
Post #: 5
1/16/2015 19:19:27   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Supported. Back then it was a huge problem because there were few energy drains to deal with the huge support abuse and nuke potential they had. However, support has gone through a ton of significant nerfs. One of them being that support builds are very skill-reliant for their damage and energy drains make it hard to use a lot of skills. Secondly, crits just do a lot less damage now. Lastly, the auxiliary and any burst/nuke potential has been reduced greatly in Omega. Any currently viable support builds function completely differently from how they used to, and support isn't really a stat worth investing in with most cases aside from using it to fulfill the requirement for 5focus builds.
Epic  Post #: 6
1/17/2015 18:02:55   
Cadens Disciple
Member
 

 Supported. Anyone with a yeti can completely eat (or chomp!) a support build and the sustain on most meta builds means support is a little left out. Don't make it too hardcore though.
Post #: 7
1/17/2015 18:14:49   
The Jop
Member

Not supported. People shouldn't be rewarded for stat abuse. Imagine being able to do (ignoring resistances) 600 damage with your auxiliary, over 700 with artillery strike (to both players if there are 2), and then heal for an increased amount. I think the boosts to critical chance and initiative are enough.

< Message edited by The Jop -- 1/17/2015 18:15:17 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
1/17/2015 18:25:17   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 ^Support abuse is nowhere near viable and even if it was added to field medic it still probably wouldn't be. Artillery strike costs energy which is a very hard resource to keep, especially in 2v2. Auxiliary attacks are now deflected more often because deflection chance stopped scaling with support a while ago. Also people are definitely tanky enough to survive the initial 1-turn burst and 3-4 crits out of 5 turns would be needed to even continuously apply pressure. The max crit chance is 20% excluding bonuses from cores, and in order to achieve that amount you would need 112 more support than your opponent, making you more than squishy enough to get melted instantly. Mark of blood would absolutely destroy support abuse builds as well.
Epic  Post #: 9
1/17/2015 18:40:16   
The Jop
Member

Doing 600 damage for no cost seems broken enough for me. Just because they're not unstoppable doesn't mean they should be buffed. Everything has a counter. Of course they are deflected a lot, but when they're not and their energy is not stolen they do massive damage.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
1/17/2015 19:00:05   
Cadens Disciple
Member
 

 @The Jop

What kind of build are you running that won't deflect a low-technology support abuser and can't drain any energy? The only builds that can't do that are stat abusers themselves, which is a hypocritical argument. Let them win once in a while due to RNG and luck instead of being outclassed by the ever-prevalent strength abuse build.

Support is kinda broken at lower-mid levels atm, but above 30 it grows increasingly irrelevant.
Post #: 11
1/17/2015 19:15:15   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

Doing 600 damage for no cost seems broken enough for me. Just because they're not unstoppable doesn't mean they should be buffed. Everything has a counter. Of course they are deflected a lot, but when they're not and their energy is not stolen they do massive damage.


Given defenses and resistances that are average, the auxiliary attack damage would need to be 900-950+. First off, I'm pretty sure this amount of aux damage is at the tip of just being impossible to achieve in the game even with legendary ranks. Secondly you will die in 2-3 hits and will get deflected very often. Crits are also just garbage because they ignore not even half of the opponent's defenses and only deal a bit over 100 bonus damage added on, if not less. It's been a while since I reviewed the crit damage formulas, but it was nerfed a while ago.

Theoretically support abuse builds are trash. Realistically the evidence shows they are also very bad. People opt for simple, fairly fast builds with decent win rates. Support abuse is fairly simple to use and very fast, but clearly the win rate is complete garbage because less than 1% of the level 30+ playerbase uses it in 1v1 from what I've seen. And if we're talking 2v2 you won't even be able to do anything past the first turn and sometimes the second because you will force all your team's heals on you or die after turn 1-2.
Epic  Post #: 12
1/18/2015 3:09:25   
Remorse
Member

I support,

However their would also need to be a few other changes to occur at the same time.



For instance they first need to solve the energy control issue, regardless of wether or not they make heal improve with support.


But this would be a prerequisite for the change, such solution could be perhaps the concept of introducing a new cost system for spamable energy control skills such as battery back up, such as Stamina Points
Epic  Post #: 13
1/18/2015 3:36:46   
RageSoul
Member

Off Topic : Glad to see you Remorse! Still having some hope there i see :O

On Topic :

+1 to the idea . Although now we have to trade some of Support's functions a little bit since having higher % resistance ignore from Rage can be game changing , especially against 5 Focus-SUPP hybrids . We don't want to make it super overloaded that will end up benefitting the non-SUPP stackers as well .

< Message edited by RageSoul -- 1/18/2015 3:39:15 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 14
1/18/2015 4:42:02   
Remorse
Member

^
I guess so haha good to see you guys to :)
Epic  Post #: 15
1/18/2015 9:09:15   
The Jop
Member

@Penguin
I've played against them a lot, and normally they force the other team to use all their heals. They normally have over 1,000 health at level 40, so even with terrible resistances they will survive long enough to use their auxiliary and artillery strike. Especially since they almost always get the first turn.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 16
1/18/2015 10:07:08   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 ^ People shouldn't be rewarded for stat abuse? say that to dex mages, str abusers, and mercs. I am suggesting a cap on the amount of hp you can receive, about 700 seems fair to me.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 17
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