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RE: =AQ= Chinese New Year Suggestion Contest! Discussion

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2/11/2015 7:43:04   

All these submissions are great! Submitted mine yesterday. I know that my suggestion probably isn't balanced lol
AQ AQW  Post #: 26
2/11/2015 8:26:45   
Raphael 777

Just submitted mine (I based mine on the zodiac animals). The other entries were all amazing (I'm quite interested in Olzzon's entry).

< Message edited by Raphael 777 -- 2/11/2015 8:36:43 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 27
2/11/2015 17:41:53   
Immortal God

Do I have to declare a type? My idea might be a little OP as a weapon, but could be fine as a misc.

Mine is up: Zodiac Fortune

Probably wont win, but I still thought it was a cool idea.

< Message edited by Immortal God -- 2/11/2015 18:01:24 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 28
2/12/2015 5:54:38   

I suggested an armor that can be summed up as "Chaos Knight meets TimeSlayer Axe".(I accidentally posted Timekeeper Axe in my entry post but ehh nothing I can do now...) I am afraid that it might be considered too complicated to win though.

This is actually 2 armors in one(the MC) like Moglord Tortress. The difference is that 1 of them is a standard armor while the other randomly shifts between 12 forms PER battle. Perhaps my most insane idea yet. Yeah it seems like a lot cos there's "13" armors. Though you can only use 2 at a time and one of them is highly likely to be bad for the situation more often than not. But I think it could be fun(coming up with it certainly was fun), some of them are designed to mess up specific mobs heh.

I've spent the entire day working on my super long(but still single) entry. I got my priorities right.

EDIT: Hmm now that I think about it this could also be intensive artwise. I am not gonna edit my entry cos that ain't allowed anymore. The armor will remain the same throughout all modes but only the face will change... hmm maybe there could just be two masks artwork wise if having 13 different ones is too much. One for the cat and one to represent the 12 Zodiacs, the latter could also remain the same appearance-wise throughout regardless of which animal it picks. I hope nothing in this post will disqualify me. This is making me nervous. QQ

EDIT2: Crap I noticed another mistake. I forgot to edit out goat's mention of Ox in the status save part. Also I forgot to clarify what "STR/DEX/INT VS..." means for rat. Major is supposed to be based on attack type.... oh noes....

Uhh nevermind minor mistake, I did rethink my ideas a few times before submitting them and I'm not gonna risk breaking teh rules.

Good Luck to everyone else! I like DD's and Uskius' entries btw. Also dig siege's idea.

< Message edited by poopbum -- 2/12/2015 8:51:58 >
AQ  Post #: 29
2/13/2015 14:35:44   

Neon_hyodra's idea came right out of left field. Very intresting idea for a pet.

...and delicious!

Still, my mind is set on an earlier armor entry, which I think IS needed. I dare not say who... in case of jinx.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 30
2/13/2015 14:42:45   

Just submitted one. Being a fan of Chinese culture and mythology, I had no shortage of ideas. At first I thought about an armor that changed forms once a year to the corresponding zodiac but decided it was too complicated to make (12-in-1 armor with some server related timer function...) and probably wont get picked. So I just went with a dumpling pet that has different attacks. You eat dumplings on new year so that counts as new year related right? =P Now just have to wait and hope to win something (but probably wont since there are so many other good entries).

Edit: After reading through more entries, Im glad that I didnt go with the armor idea. There are a lot of zodiac related armor suggestions.

< Message edited by Neon_hyodra -- 2/13/2015 14:48:45 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 31
2/13/2015 14:46:31   
How We Roll Winner

Hmm, just put in my entry for the contest. I didnt know much about Chinese mythos, but I managed to do with what I got from wiki. It's an armor, about a monk.. who's got a hand that's a dragon and can do awesome stuff with his right hand...


I know I have no chances of winning, but heck... something might surprise me :)

I'm calling it now btw, winner is gonna be a misc item!
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 32
2/14/2015 12:50:17   

Posted my suggestion, its based on the Azure Dragon. Its on the Chinese National flag.

I'm also pretty certain the item selected is going to be a misc, but we'll have to wait and see. I'm excited nonetheless.

< Message edited by crazedblazingweasel -- 2/14/2015 12:51:03 >
AQ  Post #: 33
2/14/2015 15:49:32   

I've submitted my idea. The theme is loosely related to the new year though .... Anyway, it is an armor which compress a shield, which compress a weapon, which compress a misc . A whole set in one, though it cost gold to equip the whole set. Each piece represent a season: armor is autumn, shield is winter, weapon is spring and misc is summer. The set revolve around the FSB, a skill much like Tera Suul, lasts 9999 turns and traps both player and monster in a separate dimension. The background cycle through 4 seasons, and each season makes both player and monster subject a save. Winning for the former means getting bonus, while the latter gets a nerf for losing.

Some of the item triggers based on your build. If you are STR heavy, you gets warrior bonus, if you have more INT than STR, then you get mage friendly buff.

Got fun writing this set, but I just have no idea for the appearance for my set :P. Hope winning this contest, but there's so many good ideas, this is going to be hard.
AQ  Post #: 34
2/15/2015 19:41:22   

Im surprised there arent more firework/firecracker entries, considering its a major part of the celebration.

< Message edited by Neon_hyodra -- 2/15/2015 19:42:03 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 35
2/15/2015 20:01:19   
Luster Bladewarrior

Well, firing fireworks may be banned in your area...

Also, there already is a fireworks spell.
AQ  Post #: 36
2/20/2015 2:41:28   
Bu Kek Siansu

Submitted my entry. I like Daimyo Daimyo's, poopbum's, ss2195's and Exodus Winter's entries.

< Message edited by Bu Kek Siansu -- 3/4/2015 8:20:49 >
Post #: 37
2/22/2015 4:10:43   
Luster Bladewarrior

After many, many hours of research feedback, three dozen iterations for improvements and over ten days from conception to finish my entry is ready.

Here are my thoughts on it, some of them may be quite meandering and long-winded:

Thematic considerations

What are first that come to mind regarding Chinese New Year? Color red, carnival, zodiac wheel. Through bit of research I learned more of Lion Dance, of Nian, of tie to lunar calender and of the days of celebration as well. In fact, my first thought was to tie the availability of previous items to lunar cycle - however, it appears that this is the first year this is done. Happy Chinese New Year, Adventure Quest!

Regarding the Chinese Zodiac: It is big, and paying due attention to all members with a single item is something I would like to call impossible - but few suggestions certainly try their best to challenge that notion. Year of the Goat is much easier, both in the literal and attributed sense - artistic, agile, stubborn, warm, providing, ramming...It practically writes itself!

Bottom-up philosophy

Or, as I think of it, designing what people would want to use. Because, for example, an accurate defensive ice/earth armour when we already have so many earth armours isn't my prime idea, even if ice defensive armour is missing - it'd have to succeed only on the basis of it's effect while conflicting 10 other earth armours even for the build it is suitable for.

Thus, bottom-up consideration: What would be useful and non-conflicting to all?
First of all, anything elemental is only usable between 1/8 (single-element weapon) to perhaps 5/8 of the time (armor with perfectly aligned resistances for armor-element skill with EleComp to cost), with 4/8 being about the current best with dual compression.

Given the universal utility of pets and miscs - especially some in particular - I'm lead to the idea of double lives. From this was born the idea of Carnival, although the initial plan was based on 9th day. However, as it was both beyond 4th day and paid attention to only single day it had to be changed, thematically.

Chinese New Year is for everyone

Or alternatively, hiding in sugarcane plantation / dancing in carnival is a pure/defensive build weapon primarily for those with too much room in inventory.

That said, defensive options unfortunately aren't very popular, so this option definitely had limited demographic even ignoring the pure dynamic.
For offensive lovers, however, tradition of sending off red letters fit into pre-existing dynamic very neatly, especially with their known love of LUK and it being both a good luck charm and immediate payoff.
And for beast builds who do not care for player but care for room, the Nian was born. It's elemental alignment to Water or Earth and lack of Water options makes it for a perfect pick, too.

Well, not quite for everyone - a level 130 player will be out of luck, since they'll be looking at guest 20 levels below, an infusion that doesn't do anything and a status that only works half the time.

However, thematically the options were good, great and good fit. Nian's biggest problem, really, is how he is easy to scare off - thematically sensible, but makes him to be somewhat less than optimal. Meanwhile, Red Letter forces the odd tiering, for beginning with even number brings luck.

Working out Numbers


It gives status toggle, guest that disables pet and infusion. Scalar thus guest+pet+skill+misc - 2,25 total. MC for *1,1, /2 for GGB item.
Admittedly, past options like Damnation spell or Paradox Plate which enable usage of another piece of equipment in place of missing one do not get scalar increase for that, nor do toggles - which Carnival works as, for it doesn't provide any equipment, either. However, went with conservative option here.

The gold price for Red Letter was directly based off Lucretia's Regenerative Spitzer. However, for level 150G used "MPlevel" or "Gcost level", if you will, of 152 to get even starting number.

Costs and benefit

For Carnival, there were numerous options to use: For starters, Celerity pays nothing for ability to use offensive then defensive armor.
At the same time, Paralysis is listed by standard as 1,6.
The flat-out difference is worth 0,45 turns, perhaps - but spending 2,2* to be able to manage to fit that in same space just to break even is too harsh, that is close to 8 level penalty for no benefit.
In the end, I went for the difference between paralysis and celerity standard - 0,2 - for it synchs up nicely with player's SP regeneration being worth that much.

For Red Letter, the infusion cost typically, as in the Regenerative Spitzer this was based on, merited 150% boost, or 1,5 turns. However, up until about level 120 LUK isn't filled out for pure builds - so the lucky strike is worth less. Due this, initiative boost became very large - after all, guaranteed start is only about 0,5 turns. In the end left it as it is as to not clash with Ambush infusion too much.

And well, for those who get more LUK early...Not only do they pay for it during the rest of the time initiative boost is worth less for them too.

For Nian, thematically, snacking on player makes sense. Practically, auto-hit and Virtual stat is a must so that defensive equipment well-suited for BM wouldn't be even more suited and so that players wouldn't be punished for having more CHA than expected.

Thematically, fleeing from fire and light is strong part of Nian. How much is that worth? Going by what I've heard from others players on new elemental compensations, you're supposed to face monster with different worst element than opposite their base element 25% of the time. Judging by Mighty Morphin Golem Strangers, allied elements should be primary occurrences of this - here at half the time. Thus 1/8 of the time, player is out of Nian - the penalty corresponds quite closely with off-element penalty too, so replacement isn't a big problem. Since this is the opposite of a trigger, it gets half the boost.

For both thematic and similar reasons, Nian snacks on player harder than one would expect from a downtrigger for eating humans (side note: Like light undead, how many non-fire or non-light humans do we have that are weak to water? Not only are pirates strong against it they often use fire attacks as well. Older Ninjas, meanwhile, have fire/ice attacks).


Nian: doesn't scale like standard guest - thus this beast doesn't require any additional penalty.

Carnival: Like standard DeltaLevel, it worsens past the 8th level, so that after 12 levels it is only at half the efficiency(well, 52% - 4% is prettier) - at which point it begs the question of using.
Red Letter: The price for infusion increases by 11% (significantly less at low levels) per level. So to bring it into the line with other ones, the boost provided must weaken by the difference per level, with no resting period. Conveniently, this means that initiative-heavy options scale for about 12 levels like Carnival. Inconveniently, LUK-heavy options scale for only few levels, thus the reduction of Lucky strikes bonus on penultimate and near-ultimate tiers so it can still get that much scaling.

Thanks to help

I've gotten feedback and thoughts from many players on this. However, few stand out above the rest.

Captain Bob:
......Numerous compliments on the idea may not be direct improvements, but they are inspiring to chisel the concept nevertheless.
......Excellent discussions on how thematic this is and resulting balance considerations
AQ staff, Encyclopedia posters, ArchKnights like Kaelin:
......It may be true that good idea can largely be summed up in a single sentence that contains why they're good. In that way, numbers are chaff. But they are not pointless chaff for suggestions, for they let one know if their idea is workable - and whether there is a point in it compared to what exists already or could alternatively be suggested.

Minor touchups

ss2195, Plushie:
......Thematic considerations and choices for picks with Nian and Carnival details.
rmc,ss2195, Bu Kek Siansu:
......Sane balance considerations not directly on this item, but related.
SenrasWolf, Captain Bob, poopbum:
......Typos, wording issues.
And pretty much everyone:
......On catching confusing wordings.

Post Scriptum: My own favourites
(Excluding my own entry, of course :p)

Ogma's entry with all the "fill in the blank" was quite amusing to read, even if Spring one of the four seasons is the one closest to festival.
Aura Knight's 12-toggle staff is probably the most reasonable option for incorporating whole zodiac with distinct expressions for each beast, from art/coding perspective anyway.
Rafiq's ice spear, for it has strongest 'pure power'.
Lot of people submitted armors. I'm going to say ss2195's monk is most thematic, even if it is hardly the most usable compared to likes of Bu Kek's The God of Wealth or Nick.dant's Shenlong.

< Message edited by Luster Bladewarrior -- 2/22/2015 4:15:57 >
AQ  Post #: 38
2/22/2015 4:46:06   

Wow you (and many others) really put a lot of effort into it. My entry only took me 15 min from start to finish =P
I thought the staff was just looking for ideas and not really any specific numbers.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 39
2/22/2015 6:10:10   
Lupus the Wolf
Heres How We Roll Winner
July 2014

Submitted my entry. I tried my best, especially since I'm still not very good with fancy AQ numbers
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 40
2/22/2015 10:29:23   

Just submitted my uber last-minute entry after returning from a trip back to my hometown for CNY. I wanted something which involved family gathering and an epic dragon in some way. I think I met my own expectations quite well, even managing to put in a blend of East and West culture into one package. However, the competition is going to be intense! Good luck and happy CNY!
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 41
2/22/2015 17:51:36   
Luster Bladewarrior

@Neon Hydra:

Wow you (and many others) really put a lot of effort into it. My entry only took me 15 min from start to finish =P
I thought the staff was just looking for ideas and not really any specific numbers.

You are correct. See my note on last page:

You can do numbers to get an idea of how your idea would look - I find it neat enough, even if in my head it is still represented by an idea/name - but at least previous Shadow contest ideas, for example, were more often implemented in spirit rather exactly as written, even as far as ideas went. Numerous winning ideas used no numbers for this at all.

"Oh, the contest entries with numbers just happened to look better" isn't a thing at all.
or in the post above on this:

It may be true that good idea can largely be summed up in a single sentence that contains why they're good. In that way, numbers are chaff. But they are not pointless chaff for suggestions, for they let one know if their idea is workable - and whether there is a point in it compared to what exists already or could alternatively be suggested.

And true enough - my idea can be largely summed up in a sentence: "AMR-style triple compression for armor-changing post-attack toggle during Carnival, Water HP guestPet Nian that acts like Nian for triggers and Red Letter for misc/infusion to give gold for single lucky strike with remaining in initiative."

Well, it is more like three sentences with vast swathes of theme and math omitted and lot of contextual information lost :p. But the core idea is simillar, and I believe that if one started to design something like that from known standards they would end up at roughly same result, even if there are quite a variety of ways to implement it.

The specific numbers, though, do matter in rare few cases:
For thematic value: Red Letter gold cost, for example, has to have even starting number, and level 132 is nearest to adventurer level cap that still can get such.

For gameplay value: Not a lot matters for there is not a big deal how base-heavy weapon is nor whether it has +3 or +5 BTH for 'accurate'. However, for all items tiering does matter - a magic staff that burns would be best for 7-8 levels above or below each Reignbringer, for example ;)

Mastercraft bonuses can be little odd, too - compare Ethereal Shield to Taladosian Shield - if they were the same element players would pick the latter pretty much every time.

Though this is most apparent in case of an armor - Wind/Ice/water resistance could mean resistance spread mimicking Shapeshifter, Ebony Seppy or Ultimon - and each one would have subtly different purpose. I think in current contest ss2195's, Nick.dant's and Bu Kek Siansu's entries illustrate how what is more suitable likely depends on armor's MC bonus - for armor skills in particular, equal resistances doesn't play well with elemental compensation, while they do get more mileage out of drives like Bu Kek Siansu's.

@Lupus the Wolf: Hm. fire/light...Wait, what was Blarney again? Though I was mentioend the lack of fire/light options.

However, IDK about Dragon Dances, I came mostly upon lion dances.

I feel sorry for that poor lamb. Or Nian ('s myth) :p

Regardless, I believe it would work alongside bets such as Evil Candy Canes.

< Message edited by Luster Bladewarrior -- 2/22/2015 18:40:08 >
AQ  Post #: 42
2/22/2015 22:19:54   
Lupus the Wolf
Heres How We Roll Winner
July 2014

I'd say its a mix of both dragon and lion dance. The execution is more lion but I wanted the face to look more dragon. Though I probably should've just make it an armor with toggleable element and changing mask, but I'm not sure if I can include the fire breath or other interesting ability if I do so.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 43
2/23/2015 1:22:45   

its interesting to see that for chinese new year some people want a japanese samurai-like armor. FYI japanese new year is celebrated on january 1st-3rd. it stopped following the lunar calendar after the meiji era when the gregorian calendar basically dominated the world.
Post #: 44
2/23/2015 21:45:00   

Ugh... they should really specify time this contest was due. I was under impression it was due 23-59 server time today.
DF  Post #: 45
2/26/2015 10:19:59   

I really love the Red Lantern armor idea :D

Good luck everyone! The staff will have a hard time picking a winner since all of them are so awesome
AQ AQW  Post #: 46
3/1/2015 11:12:01   

^It does have some really nice art. We should be getting the results tomorrow. Can't wait, there's a lot of things suggested here I wouldn't mind getting.
AQ Epic  Post #: 47
3/3/2015 12:37:52   

Any update on announcing a winner?
AQ DF  Post #: 48
3/4/2015 3:07:56   
Rafiq von den Vielen

If it is this long until a winner is revealed I presume that means that staff has a hard time to decide on the actual winner.

Or that they'll post it along with the new release.
I'm going with option 1.
Post #: 49
3/4/2015 6:02:09   

I think they will announce the winners at the same time they hand out the rewards, i.e. when the item is ready for release. This is most logical, otherwise people who won will have to wait for their rewards.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 50
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