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=ED= February 27th, 2015 - Patch Notes 1.6.40 (Balance)

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2/27/2015 15:04:06   
  Battle Elf
has ten 1v1 wins
quote:



February 27th, 2015
Patch Notes - 1.6.40
BALANCE CHANGES:
  • Bot damage

    • Baby/Dark Yeti now deal 150 damage
    • Baby/Dark Yeti Warrior now deal 160 damage
    • Golden Yeti stays at 180 damage
    • All other bots now deal 170 damage
    • Infernal Android will still gain 5% damage per round, but will max out at 125% damage. This keeps the damage roughly on par with previous values.

  • Skill Trees for all classes except for Tech Mages (yours was already awesome!) have been adjusted. Note that skills have not been added to or removed from any class.
    Atom Smasher
    • Now unblockable
    • Energy cost increased by 30 at all levels

    Shadow Arts
    • Damage reduction increased by 5% at all levels

    Venom Strike
    • Energy cost lowered by 10 at all levels
    • Poison damage increased by 10 at all levels
    • Cooldown increased from 2 to 3

  • Toxic Grenade
    • Cooldown increased from 2 to 3

Tags: Rabblefroth Patch Notes

The second half of the DN's can be found here! ~Battle Elf

< Message edited by Battle Elf -- 2/27/2015 15:05:37 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
2/27/2015 15:12:50   
Ranloth
Banned


 Part of me wishes TLMs had a different re-arrangement, since the synergy between skills is still-- not so good. They could use new skills to improve that synergy, yeah, but eh... CHs have a neat skill tree now, likewise with Mercenaries.

Remorse should be happy about the Bots part, too. At least there's a standard for them now, even if it was at the cost of nerfing some Bots, but power inflation was a balance issue and money argument never cuts if players want balance.
AQ Epic  Post #: 2
2/27/2015 15:26:10   
Lord Machaar
Member

Personally I think this patchnote is a joke.

1- The almighty lie: "Devs are working constantly behind the scenes on balance".
If this lie is true, and devs were actually working on balance, using simple math, since last patchnote which took place on December 5th 2014, almost 3 months has passed, if you tell me that's through all these months, this is the best thing you were able to get out of your testing team, then sorry, it was my mistake asking for balance, because the only thing you do is making it worse.

2- Ranks: Frankly, I have detailed in more than one post why the ranking system is broken, I'm not adding anything up since it's useless now, and I just made sure that the game was sold for good to no-lifers. Good luck with that. P.S: No matter what balance moves you work on, the game will never be balanced for the sake of this very broken system not being implemented in the equation. Because sincerely I don't think testers are actually testing ranks, balance doesn't work in the same way from level 1 to 40, as it works from level 40 rank to level 40 rank 60.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 2/27/2015 15:41:56 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 3
2/27/2015 19:12:59   
shadow.bane
Member

you done everything quit good ! but you forgot to do 2 things that are important now !

jugg caps on 10 - 15 level on all levels

and randomly put skills in each fight to prevent the use of auto clicker :)

Thank you !

Merged with Feb 27 DNs thread. ~WhiteTiger

< Message edited by WhiteTiger -- 2/28/2015 1:28:21 >

_____________________________

Bane Hallow The Last Shadow Fiend.
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
2/27/2015 19:54:49   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 ^Your opinion isn't necessarily right, and that's your entire basis for what balance is.

I like the bot changes and I'm going to explore the new skill tree adjustments later. Hopefully they'll prove interesting.
Epic  Post #: 5
2/27/2015 21:28:03   
dfo99
Member
 

 share the design notes between balance and discurssion seems the annoyest thing possible to do in this forum ŽŽ" the forum staff who suggest it really deserve a medal.
Post #: 6
2/27/2015 22:17:18   
  Battle Elf
has ten 1v1 wins


 A medal's pretty generous... I would've been fine with a gold star.

The change was implemented to prevent balance discussion in the ED GD and instead move it to the Balance section (The boards are separate for a reason). The split makes more sense when Patch Notes are longer and I understand how this could cause frustration with such a short update.


< Message edited by Battle Elf -- 2/27/2015 22:18:57 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 7
2/27/2015 22:54:25   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 New skill trees are pretty neat. They add a bit of change to making builds if nothing else.

I'm not liking the poison changes though. The staff can do so much more to make the 2 poisons unique, but now they're almost exactly the same skill.
Epic  Post #: 8
2/28/2015 4:17:55   
romanu
Member

The new bot change would help you see more bots in battle, that's for sure. Never liked that some bots have 4 less base damage.

Now that mercenary got a energy gain buff, I wonder how the balance team are doing about Bounty hunter.


Either they plan a energy gain update for them later or they just trhink they are doing good as it is.
Post #: 9
2/28/2015 5:08:51   
Ranloth
Banned


 http://i.imgur.com/Qg6Fwod.png <- Personally, I think this would've worked better for TLM's skill tree rearrangement. Dex builds get their side of the skill tree (defensive + effect), Support doesn't have Multi easily accessible anymore but they are likely to have Frenzy even with the old skill tree, which also allows them to get to Battery, and you get Tier 4 skills after you get Battery, which is likely to be owned by all builds anyway.

Allows much more flexibility, without having your skill points wasted.
AQ Epic  Post #: 10
2/28/2015 5:16:37   
Lord Machaar
Member

I have one simple question, why ranks weren't balanced?
Hmm...
MQ Epic  Post #: 11
2/28/2015 5:20:31   
Ranloth
Banned


 There are plans for them - we are aware of the negative impact they have on balance. I don't know when and how they'll be adjusted, since I don't work on balance; I often just pass information on, and give feedback where possible.
AQ Epic  Post #: 12
2/28/2015 6:16:19   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 @romanu

Mercs' energy drain didn't get buffed. Mercs' energy drain is Static Smash, which is different from TLMs' Atom Smasher. Atom Smasher, the one which was buffed, does not provide energy regen. It's now essentially an EMP that scales with primary weapon damage rather than tech.

On the skill tree tweaks, I think they're unlikely to be significant for high-level players, but they are welcome for low-level and mid-level players because skill points are a precious resource for them. Bot changes are also welcome and ensure that promos provide variety rather than an explicit power advantage. Poison alterations mean that TLMs will actually have to be tactical in their playing styles, which should make EpicDuel more interesting. The elephant in the room - legendary rank changes - is, however, unfortunately absent. The lack of a clear timeline for rank balance changes is worrying.

< Message edited by Silver Sky Magician -- 2/28/2015 8:22:42 >
Post #: 13
2/28/2015 9:09:29   
Thylek Shran
Member

The sum of the balance changes:

Buffed classes:
- Bounty Hunter because of Shadow Arts
- Tactical Mercenary as an unblockable Atom Smasher should be more usefull than a nerfed Toxic Grenade

Buffed builds:
- 5 focus because many robots got buffed

Nerfed classes:
- Cyber Hunter because of additional cooldown turn for Venom Strike

Nerfed builds:
- Builds who had 190 dmg robots
- Poison builds


I appreciate the robot adjustment alot as the UPed bots like Assault Bot and
Pyro Fly got buffed while the OPed bots got nerfed. Not sure about the damage
buff for Venom Strike as it is now more powerfull than Toxic Grenade.
The cooldown nerf for the poison skills definitive was overdue.

The skill tree changes donīt seem to have much impact for higher level characters
but for lower levels its sure good. I cannot agree with you (devs) that the
TM skill tree is awesome. Its horrible ! Especially dex builds can access and max
their most needed skills (Overload, Plasma Rain, Technician) very easily while
strenght and tech builds have to invest skill points into skills (Overload, Plasma Rain),
that they donīt need at all. I suggest to exchange the position of Plasma Rain with
Fire Scythe and to connect Super Charge to Battery Backup instad to Plasma Rain.
This would be three clearly separated branches for a much better TM build balance.

Picture


All in all this is a descent balance update but still a good one. I hope to see more of
this and that the real problems will receive a balance update too. Like the legendary
rank system, the HP str problem, to many and OPed cores for strenght builds,
Juggernaut mode, and the OPed skills like Energy Parasite, Hybrid Armor, Maul,
Bludgeon and Mark of Blood.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 2/28/2015 9:18:28 >
DF Epic  Post #: 14
2/28/2015 9:36:34   
dfo99
Member
 
quote:

I understand how this could cause frustration with such a short update.


this patch was not much important and generate alot of discurssion, but when it happens keep constantly switching between 2 threads is annoying (in my case maybe because i read and do other things while play epic duel and 2 threads consume more attention.)
Post #: 15
2/28/2015 12:41:38   
I Underlord I
Member

It's nice to see that Venom Strike has been brought up to a similar standard to Toxic Grenade, as well as to see the general and rather necessary nerf to poison builds through the increase of cooldown.

Atom Smasher is fortunately now worth utilizing to at least some extent for most builds, which brings me to commend the rearrangement of the Skill Trees (save, perhaps, Tactical Mercenary's).

A small buff to the admittedly anemic Shadow Arts is always nice!

I'd like to take this moment to laud the staff for the update to Robots; if nothing else, they now have a standard across the board, and diversity is significantly more viable where special attack is -- for the most part -- the only major factor in choosing one.

(I understand this isn't the place to discuss the rest of the update, but taking into consideration there isn't much to discuss, I wanted to reference the absolutely beautiful art for Caladbolg. ^^)

_____________________________

"Memories and thoughts age, just as people do. But certain thoughts can never age, and certain memories can never fade."
~ Haruki Murakami, The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle
AQ  Post #: 16
2/28/2015 18:14:04   
Lord Machaar
Member

@Ranloth

I have to lay this down here to further explain my idea why this update is a joke although the balance changes were good.
So here we go, I know you are just here to form a link between us and devs, but if you got an answer from the person that is in charge of balance, please don't hesitate to pass it to me. If the game was already imbalanced before ranking system was introduced, well here is the thing, ranking system came to make the game more imbalanced for the following simple reasons:
1- OP classes/builds tend to become OPē while used by higher rank players. Making any OP build, more OPed while used with extra legendary points.
2- If the hardcore slogan of Omega was and still closing the gap between players, no matter if it was Var/Non-Var, Lifers/No-lifers, ranking system is here to increase it. So everything you are trying to do now is getting shutted down by this system because balance changes will fail to balance the game because there are "Advantages" of many players that aren't being taken in consideration, sure give any build: +30 dmg in primary/def/resis and +40 in aux/sidearm/bot and you will see it's more powerful, give it to an OP build/class and the game will be ruined.
3- Concerning bot damage, if all bots now have 170 damage (except one) investing 10 points in legendary points to increase your bots damage will give you +40 damage, and that's the difference between a rank 60 and a rank 1, using same build, 5 focus, one has +210 bot damage, and the other one has +170, that's not all. So if you think if some bots had 190 damage and some others had 170 was unfair, franly if: rank 60 used before this update a 190 damage bot plus +40 bot damage of legendary points = +230 damage while rank 1 with 170 damage having +60 bot damage in difference, sure not much, add the other 50 legendary points into account and you will see what I'm talking about. On one hand they make all bots have same damage, because before when bots had different damages it was imbalanced, on the other hand ranking system gives +40 bot damage to rank 60 (210 bot damage) and +0 damage to rank 1 (170 damage) and it's totally balanced and nope, it doesn't need to be balanced, further more having +40 bot damage is totally okay as long as its given by ranks, oh and +40 sidearm and aux damage, oh and +30 primary damage and defense and resistance, oh come on that's balanced, we will just ruin other things in-game rather than fixing one thing. So come on butthurt rank 1 man up and face your destiny, you have became a farming product (Thanks Alkimos) for your little friend in front of you, so don't bother yourself by playing the game your way and just give it up already, or you know what, here some alternative ways to proceed in the game rather than quitting it: since your win ratio is hidden, why don't you became a botter a little bit since you are losing anyways, make it faster, and then if you got bored, follow the pattern of sheep by farming NPCs all the way up to rank 60, oh the irony, a pvp game they said. and yeah this further explains number 2.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 2/28/2015 18:38:03 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 17
2/28/2015 21:18:16   
Q U A L I T Y
Member
 

 Can anyone on the forums tell me the class that is op atm with a build to go along with it
Post #: 18
2/28/2015 22:10:57   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 @Ranloth:

The skill tree changes were made to be focused on logic rather than balance, although the changes do impact balance. You now HAVE to invest in stun grenade to get poison grenade on TLM, and static grenade branches from energy shield. These are just 2 examples of how the changes are just meant to be logical and not really intended to buff/nerf classes.
Epic  Post #: 19
3/1/2015 1:51:05   
Ranloth
Banned


 Personally, I believe balance should take priority over logic, when it comes to skill points. It really does affect the build making under L40, due to how many points you may waste just to get the skill you want.
AQ Epic  Post #: 20
3/1/2015 5:18:20   
coolboyelazizy
Member

So that is the long waited balance update? ._.
AQW Epic  Post #: 21
3/1/2015 7:06:38   
Lord Machaar
Member

@Ranloth:

Priority is to balance the game, balancing the game requires the balancer to look at all possibilities while doing so, even it takes him to nerfing varium products e.g now bots. But what I see now is an exception which is ranking system. Sure when we say that legendary points don't equal skill points, check the other post I just made and the conclusion was based on another one taking in consideration notes from players. 10 legendary points = 1 level, 60 ranks = 6 levels. Alright let's say that a level 34 can defeat a level 40, if level 40 is dumb and level 34 using an OP build, same thing aplies when a rank 1 faces a rank 60/

So here is the following thing, when I was talking with my little friend Alkimos in a deleted thread, we reached the following conclusion:
In order, as a low ranker, to defeat a high ranker, you need to follow the pattern drawn by the devs them selves, how?, well here is the thing, as a low ranker you definetly, don't have the right to choose the build you want to play with, or you will make yourself a farming product product, which leaves you with the following options:

- Botting, I frankly think they need to legalize it. Since you are clearly saying you won't stand a chance while facing a high rank player.

- NPCing. I don't think I need to further explain this idea.

- And finally OP builds, which brings us to the problem, if for example a low ranker, wanting to play PVP, sure I'm not going to use my creative build, because there are hardcore high rank players who are searching for their prey, by clicking on "Strike" to the infinity and beyond. So this leaves with utilizing OP builds. But hey, here is the thing, OP builds are unfair, we all agree on this, and OP builds should be nerfed in order to balance the game between players of same range of levels, but what about that poor low ranker who wants to play PVP, you my friends have destroyed his only chance to win in PVP.

I'm not saying that OP builds shouldn't be nerfed, but what I say is, low rankers use those builds to counter high rank players, nerf those OP builds, sure to make game balanced, but did you think about low rankers? Deserves a moment of thinking. And yeah if you think balancing and screwing everything up else, rather than taking off the head of the snake, won't do any good.
- e.g: 5 Focus, poison and surgical strike for TLM was the build that can encounter high ranks, and since it got nerfed, you need to change class, because there ain't no other build for you to use. And to change class you really don't know if it will work or not.

As I conclusion, why I clearly stated that these balance changes are jokes because, when you think that having a 20 damage difference between a bot and another is so imbalanced, and it deserves 3 months if what you say is true and DEVs think about balance regulary, so since last patchnote (5th december 2014), they were hard working on this, and wow, they came with this crazy imbalanced state so they had to balance it, then what the hell about a +40 Bot/Aux/Sidearm damage and +30 primary damage/ defense /resistance is totally fine and balance and it shouldn't be looked into. Is this the Logic you are talking about?, are we making exceptions here? do we live in parallel universes where in the devs universe ranks don't exist? because clearly, doing such a move, spinning around the problem is fishy.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 3/1/2015 7:19:11 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 22
3/1/2015 7:15:24   
Ranloth
Banned


 All I can say is to wait. We are aware of the Legendary Mode being the new enhancements - similar to how L26+ prior to Omega was a nightmare for F2P players, since they encountered mostly Varium players who slaughtered them most of the time.

There are plans on changing the Mode, but I can't say what exactly will be done - nor when. However, it does include balance side of it (and before anyone gets any ideas, it's not buffing it). Suggestions such Ranks affecting the First Strike, higher rewards based on the Rank, and so on, have been brought up to the Devs by myself already.

quote:

Is this the Logic you are talking about?

No... I was referring to Penguin's post regarding skill trees.

< Message edited by Ranloth -- 3/1/2015 7:16:27 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 23
3/1/2015 7:26:27   
Lord Machaar
Member

Well once again, the only quote that explains the situation:
quote:

" This game has been around for a long time.
Anything that truly matters to them has already been fixed.
Anything that hasnt been fixed by now, don't expect it to ever be. Tweaked, modified and changed a bit? Sure. Fixed? No. "


Sure, got no problem, we can wait for another 3 months, why not, it's already too late to do anything about it, I just further explained why I stated that those changes are jokes, and if you read my post very well, you will notice in my tone that I'm not giving any demands no suggestions to directly change this system, I just gave yesterday a suggestion: defeating higher rank = higher rewards.
The need to change or not is really up to the devs, I just gave constructive criticism to back up my opinion why I think those changes are jokes. Which I really don't think it's needed because it's clear, but you know forum rules.



< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 3/1/2015 7:37:30 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 24
3/1/2015 18:26:57   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 @Ranloth:

Or just make the skill trees match logistically for aesthetic reasons and then balance the skills based off of the newly modified skill trees. I doubt it'd be very impactful to balance classes based off of the skill placement at all. The only case where I can think of it making a big difference was when we still had deadly aim and the only way to get it on TMs was to burn 2 skill points along the skill path to reach it. However, passives aren't a thing anymore which effectively makes moving around the skills on the skill trees not that impactful.
Epic  Post #: 25
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