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Balance The Plasma Grenade and Stun Grenade

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3/27/2015 12:42:38   
King Bling
Member

If you see, the plasma grenade even with 101+35+6 tech does 177 damage normally, while if you compare this to plasma cannon, that cannon will do over 440+ damage, similarly stun grenade does minimal damage compared to bunker buster, this skill is utter crap and doesnt stun normally as well, does 270 damage at rage against a tank, even though the person has 101+35+6 tech
Post #: 1
3/27/2015 13:22:57   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 It honestly is only meant to have 1-2 skill points put into it, then thrown as a clutch last resort. It literally has 0 other uses.

You are comparing a skill that has a chance of giving a free turn, including rage and all other effects from dealing damage, to a skill that is meant only for raw damage. The 30% stun chance cannot be compared to a 25% crit chance because crits are worth jack and have been nerfed to the ground, whereas stuns giving a free turn can give somebody a win when they normally would have lost.
Epic  Post #: 2
3/27/2015 13:45:17   
Remorse
Member

^ So?

Going second has almost the same effect as losing a turn anyway since the game has no going second compensation...

I personally think both the grenades need to be dramatically buffed to make the stat it improves with a viable build option...

Then we might actually see some different style builds.

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< Message edited by Caststarter -- 3/27/2015 17:46:51 >
Epic  Post #: 3
3/27/2015 13:57:55   
Mother1
Member

While the moves you are comparing the grenades to are horrid examples (Seeing as bunker blaster and Plasma cannon are designed to be armor piercing moves) Stun grenade and Plasma grenade aren't.

While I do agree they could use a buff, they don't need to be buff so much that stun grenade because the old overload in physical form and visa versa for plasma grenade.
Epic  Post #: 4
3/27/2015 14:09:11   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 @Exploding Penguin: Keep in mind the fact that the 30% chance to stun just stays at 30%. Doesn't increase with anything. Meanwhile the 25% chance to crit for plasma cannon is just a base. Which means that it stacks on top of your average chance to crit depending on your build and, given the fact that the majority of players who use Plasma Cannon have 42/45 support( sometimes +14 ), their chances to crit automatically raises to about 40%, 38% at the very minimum. And if you use the popular f5 Bm Build with wep stats +0 +14 +35 +35 your chances of crit are at least 45%. Which means every other time you use Plasma Cannon you will have a 40% chance minimum of doing critical damage which, in fact, deals extremely high damage, increases your rage meter and forces the opponent to quickly re-think their next move by either healing or casting a shield. For a energy cost of about 280 (since theres not much of a need to max it out since you have a relatively high chance to crit and the scaling increases the damage as opposed to your critical chance), then its easily spammable.

On the other hand we have the topic at hand, Plasma Grenade. The 30% base stun chance stays at 30%. The wiki page says that it can increase with cores but we don't really have any cores now atm. Theres no additional chance to crit, and the damage is excessively lower.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 5
3/27/2015 15:45:07   
Mother1
Member

@ TBK

The crit chance for bunker and plasma cannon is locked at 25 percent just like the grenades chances to stun. In other words you can have 200+ support and you chances of getting a crit with bunker or plassma cannon are the same as someone with base support.
Epic  Post #: 6
3/27/2015 16:21:42   
Lord Machaar
Member

Stunning an opponent is a pretty game changing or even deciding factor.
Basically when I'm down to 50 hp with enough energy to use stun grenade, and close to rage, and my IA's special is maxed out, and the opponent's hp is between 500 - 600, one stun can change the battle 360 degrees from 99% lose to a win.
I frankly don't care about the damage more than the stun itself.

The best "stun" skills currently are maul and overload (merc & BM & TM), the reasons why they are better than stun grenade & plasma grenade (TLM & BH & CH) are:
- maul and overload improve with stats that benefits the class.
- usually that stat improves other skills. (Dexterity for overload and plasma rain, strenght for maul and basically most skills of mercenaries.)

Now the question is, do stun grenade and plasma grenade need a buff? according to the huge gap we see between them and other "stun" skills, they do, but we frankly, as I mentioned before, we can't compare skills individually, we need to lay down all skills, and compare them in the context not invidually, maybe (CHs, BH & TLMs) compensate for that in other domains, this is sadly not my work and I'm not paid for it, since it requires a lot of time to build such a database to consult in these cases.
MQ Epic  Post #: 7
3/27/2015 16:43:13   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 @Mother so it doesn't stack?
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 8
3/27/2015 17:06:30   
Mother1
Member

@ TBK

No it doesn't.
Epic  Post #: 9
3/27/2015 18:16:50   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 oohh ok thanks for the clarity. I support that the grenade needs a damage buff,same with stun grenade
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 10
3/28/2015 2:09:19   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 If it were to be buffed, I would like it to be buffed so that it doesn't do anymore damage but simply gives bonus rage. Or gains extra stun chance like maul.

This is because if you are a caster running a stun skill, why are you allowed to do as much damage as any other normal caster skill or almost as much while getting a 30% chance for a free turn? If you are using it for the stun portion rather than the damage portion, you only need 1-2 points into it, and buffing the base damage would just make the whole class better as a whole which could as a result alter balance of every single build of that class. If you are buffing the scaling then it would have to be very precise and calculated buffs, otherwise the damage would go out of whack. Reducing energy costs just turns it into a cheese move that has little penalty aside from missing some damage, but stun grenades already cost not too much at level 1.

However, if you give it extra stun chance for more consistency, then it could find more applicable uses. If you have it give extra rage it could maintain all current things it has (because honestly, if you are going a caster build the damage does not suck that badly), then you can use it to follow up with rage attacks more easily and use it for what stuns are used for.

The way I see it, stuns should either be very consistent or a clutch move to change games. If they are consistent they can be used more frequently rather than a single-use skill and could add some build variety. However, their effects are so abysmal right now and since rage gain is based off of damage they don't even give that much rage. If they are being used for a clutch turnaround, they could at least give extra rage for ease of use in these situations.
Epic  Post #: 11
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