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3/30/2015 19:07:34   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

As we all know, sword are majorly used in the most used classes such as Bounty Hunter, Blood Mage, and Tactical mercenary. People are overusing swords because of regeneration of energy, Mercenaries only use club because of Static Smash. Can you guys make some skills of all classes for claws, clubs, and staffs only? Maybe Parasite for Staff, Claws for Smoke Screen, Poison Grenade for Club. Mercenary is okay because they use the class specified weapon most of the time. Also, people don't use the class weapons because of the Stat points. Sword have 28 Stat points to put on while Claws, Clubs, Staffs only have 23. So if you guys have 28 stat points and same damage, people would use them more. We also need certain skills for staffs only, and certain skills for swords only and only have some the same. What use is a blood mage who never uses a staff? Tech Mage who doesn't use sword? Bounty that doesn't use Blades?
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
3/30/2015 19:19:46   
ImperialB0oty
Member

Supported. People can not overuse swords. what are Staffs/claws/clubs for? now mercenary is great with club and swords. but not tlm,bm,ch, and Tm. they're all overusing swords like celtic and frozen fury swords. this needs a fix, thanks for ur question i hope they fix it!
Post #: 2
3/31/2015 0:55:29   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


Staffs are very important for TMs because of assimilation. And they also have pretty useful caster skills and viable caster builds.

TLM has a huge problem with mauls. Only 1 skill actually requires it.

For BHs and CHs, venom strike is a pretty decent skill, cheap shot's only purpose is to get a lucky crit, and massacre is pretty useless on most builds save for a very particular few.

BMs have never needed staffs before ever.

Easiest way to fix this? Work on the darn skill overlap thing for class skill trees that was promised to happen in Omega but has not yet happened and would honestly solve so many problems with ED it's ridiculous.
Epic  Post #: 3
3/31/2015 5:55:28   
nkc413
Member

Energy Parasite: Staff Required!

Frenzy: Club Required!
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 4
3/31/2015 6:33:34   
Ranloth
Banned


Putting weapon requirements on skills that are required in the current game meta, only reduces variety even more. It would just change to "<Class Weapon> Overused", and Swords getting short end of the stick. The last thing we need now, is even less variety.
AQ Epic  Post #: 5
3/31/2015 7:01:47   
The berserker killer
Member

 

Then why not just remove the penalty for using your class weapon
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 6
3/31/2015 7:57:14   
ImperialB0oty
Member

This needs a fix, people can not overuse celtic and some other swords. and also rares like infernals,bionics,frostbane,spectrals,bane, all those old promos rares needs to be buffed. i bet some omega noob will tell me im wrong just because he doesn't have rares since older phases. anyways delta knights are useless. and ranks are for nerds idk why they put ranks in this game it just made it worse and requires no skill to win a player. just spam strike or get all legend points maxed and u'll beat anyone lmao, and the passives removal was the biggest mistake. and nerf the dam parasite rofl

Profanity removed. Censored or not, please refrain from using inappropriate language in order to keep things civil and constructive.
Also, do not double post. Please use the edit button for more information. Plus, posting about specific skills for classes should go to their respective threads instead of this one, which is for another topic entirely. Please stay on topic.
For more information, please read the
=AE= Comprehensive Forum Rules > Posting Behavior. ~Caststarter


< Message edited by Caststarter -- 3/31/2015 15:51:14 >
Post #: 7
3/31/2015 14:45:31   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

That's why there needs to be sword specific and class weapon specific, so multiple types of builds can be used. I'm not docking swords, but class weapons for classes that should use them aren't used. Each class should be able to use a certain weapon without their win percent going down. Last time I checked, a BH with Blades has low speed and lower win % than sword, Blood Mage with staff isn't used and there needs to be a build possible for it. I'm not saying that builds for class specific weapons are going to be overused/overpowered. I just said there needs to be an equal amount of builds that work for each set up.



Or buff the skills that no one uses (class specific) and take away the stat/damage handicap on class weapons like the berserker killer said. Plus, I don't think variety can go down much further since class specific weps can use all 12 moves unlike swords.

< Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 3/31/2015 23:43:47 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 8
4/1/2015 14:12:56   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

Frenzy: Club Required!


Not really.

quote:

This needs a fix, people can not overuse celtic and some other swords. and also rares like infernals,bionics,frostbane,spectrals,bane, all those old promos rares needs to be buffed. i bet some omega noob will tell me im wrong just because he doesn't have rares since older phases. anyways delta knights are useless. and ranks are for nerds idk why they put ranks in this game it just made it worse and requires no skill to win a player. just spam strike or get all legend points maxed and u'll beat anyone lmao, and the passives removal was the biggest mistake. and nerf the dam parasite rofl


Yeah just forget about it, I've been here for 3 months giving solid arguments, nothing happened, in fact, they prefer to change anything else but ranks which is the main problem, if I frankly bought the katherax or the frozen yeti bot I would be pissed for nerfing these bots instead of fixing the real problem. And I from here, challenge anyone, anyone, to give me solid arguments that say the opposite of what I said about ranks.
Peace.
MQ Epic  Post #: 9
4/1/2015 14:27:25   
Mother1
Member

@ Lord machaar

These problems been here even before the introduction of ranks. Changing ranks will not solve the problem seeing as the same problem that were here before hand are still in effect. If you fix the original problem then ranks won't be that much on an issue seeing as the problem that Ranks are making worse has been taken care off.
Epic  Post #: 10
4/1/2015 15:20:43   
Darkwing
Member

I just find it wierd that TLM has only one skill locked with sword and some classes have many skills locked. TM has 3 skills locked, same as BH, CH,BM.

Mercenary is like forced to use class weapon.

Post #: 11
4/1/2015 15:24:33   
Lord Machaar
Member

@Mother1

I didn't say that ranks are the only reason why swords are overused, they are part of the problem, a main problem, making it worst, and not in just this case, but most of other cases, for example in this case, and taking strenght builds as an example:

Strenght builds used by blood mages or tactical mercenaries, already don't need the class's special weapon, for the simple reasons that
-the extra stat points given by the sword + plus legendary points given by ranks + Not even one single skill in the build requires the class's special weapon + extra damage given by swords: don't make these builds OP only, but turn any other build that uses the class's special weapon useless, or even another build with a sword, that's why we don't really see any strenght build now using the class's special weapon due to the deadly combo of: extra stats given by sword + legendary points of ranks and 1 to 0 skills in the said build require the class's special weapon.
Because basically what we see now is: How much dexterity points you got? Players are racing to have a better amount of dex, meaning a safe environement to use strike each and every turn. That's why each extra, even one point, is critical at this stage. How ranks influence that, by covering the lack of resistence, due to the massive amount of stat points invested in strenght and dexterity, meaning that ranks cover the weaknesses that strenght build had before ranking system/omega introduced, making it a build with 0 weaknesses, basically a strike doing the same damage done by a robot of a 5 focus builds. Sure some might say that legendary points that are invested in resistance don't give you a chance to deflect, but who wants that? You already assured yourself a safe extra dex points making you safe of getting blocked, sure sometimes luck plays with you but I'm talking about 90% of the time.

- Going around the problem and fixing one part only, won't fix the problem either, since ranks favourite "Certain" builds at certain ranks, e.g: strenght builds at rank 25 - 30, and 5 focus at rank 50 - 60. Both of these builds don't really require the class's special weapon to operate. Making any other build, using class's special weapon or not, looking like an underdog.

- Bottom line is, going around the problem won't fix it.

quote:

If you fix the original problem then ranks won't be that much on an issue seeing as the problem that Ranks are making worse has been taken care off.


For you maybe, but for me, nothing was taken care of.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 4/1/2015 16:20:39 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 12
4/1/2015 17:19:50   
Squrwogrona
Member

@Machaar

Well I finally succumbed and went from focus 5 to str. Sure, I got kicks from seeing dmg on round 13 android; but now I can get kicks from numbers from a mere strike and now I no longer wonder why everyone uses str.

Remember how masses some time back cried about kartherax...? I get fished a lot now and I don't care, if anything fish should last at least 4 turns and do 100% dmg just to bring some hard counter to str.

I used to play intimidate -46 str and kartherax combo and I still got owned bcs str is just so noobfriendly and effortless to use. I really hoped that 120+tech will deflect gun of str user with 50 tech, but nope. So I finally said to myself: Why I am braining like a south-korean-starcrafter, when I can spam strike? Now I spam strike, it is somewhat boring, but at least I am no longer frustrated that no tech deflects and no supp crits.

I really am curious what the big surprise is. Maybe ending str's hold on ED? Removal of ranks for a nice good old lvlups and cheevo for drowned varium/creds in ranks?

In case someone takes this as the 1st April post, that is your business. But I really want to see the requirement "brain needed" back to make wins a matter of skill rather that broken str favoring RNG brawls. Same goes for android focus.

EDIT: Yea, I used sword both as a focus and as str; why intentionally gimp urself?

< Message edited by Squrwogrona -- 4/1/2015 17:28:01 >
Epic  Post #: 13
4/1/2015 17:45:16   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

quote:

Mother 1:
These problems been here even before the introduction of ranks. Changing ranks will not solve the problem seeing as the same problem that were here before hand are still in effect. If you fix the original problem then ranks won't be that much on an issue seeing as the problem that Ranks are making worse has been taken care off.

It would help lessen the problem with classes, and removing the penalty for using class specific weapons would help. If blades for Bounty Hunter were equal as swords, I would use blades, but I can not because of swords.
AQW Epic  Post #: 14
4/1/2015 18:04:46   
Lord Machaar
Member

@Squr:

The reason why strenght builds are so famous, it's because they can be used at rank 20 without the fear of knowing there is a player with higher rank better than you using same build like 5 focus does.
The fact that you can get full potentials of any strenght build as early as in rank 20 - 30, which means, having +10 legendary points on primary damage, +10 legendary points on defense and + 10 legendary points on resistance, and since having extra legendary points give a slim advantage (improving sidearm), which means a rank 60 is no different to rank 30 if using a strenght build, and if you say that the player with rank 60 has extra legendary points on his sidearm, who needs his sidearm if you can put all your level up stats in your dexterity and hp and strenght, and let ranks cover you up in resistance, then you can go "HAM" on strike button, without even thinking, knowing that you are having a pretty good amount of dexterity, more than any other player.

No other build, Zero build, give you this feeling at rank 20, for example, 5 focus, you can get full potentials of this build til rank 50 (maxing everything out but sidearm), so using a 5 focus at rank 20 - 30 means that you can max only defense and resistance and bot, leaving your opponent with a powerful aux and primary damage, and this is why strenght builds are so famous right now among players from rank 20 - 50. Furthermore, these last missions only came to reward these players, to encourage them more to play strenght builds destroying the variety even more in the game, 600 pvp wins? How can you complete that with 2vs2 missions? How can a low rank player complete that using a 5 focus build? Answer is simple:

NPC for a couple of months, reach rank 20 and then utilize a strenght build.

Going back to topic, if for example, devs or testers wanted to balance "the overuse of swords", you think they will touch ranks? they prefer to change 20 quadzillion other thing but ranks to work it out, the thing is, sure, it might partially be fixed, totally okay with that, but that will generate another problems, because sadly, and that's what whoever thinks he knows what he is doing balancing the game, but in fact doesn't, is the fact that depending on ranks, builds might be OP, balanced or an underdog, which means, working on the build itself by nerfing it skills rather then working on ranks themselves, will make the build balanced in some rank ranges where it was OP before (high ranks), underdog in some rank ranges where it was "Balanced" (mid ranks), and unusable in other rank rangers where it was the underdog (low ranks, example: nerfing of bots.), or vice versa if said build was the underdog and one of it skills was buffed. But if ranks were balanced directly, you can balance the build within its rank range without affecting it in other rank ranges.


< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 4/1/2015 18:13:15 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 15
4/2/2015 4:00:54   
Squrwogrona
Member

@Machaar

IDK what is safe to state here bcs I don't want this to be moved to suggestions; but I try to keep on topic.

All can agree that scratching ranks completely probably won't happen, bcs some players would get angry and possibly quit. Way to fix this? Convert ranks to a classic lvl up depending how much player has, i.e. rank 60 >> lvl 45? + cheevo+ maybe 50% varium/credits spent on ranking (if it is stored somewhere in the database) as a refund. If not, make up some hard number for a refund (f.e. 10k var, 50k creds, idk). Rank 100+ >> lvl 48 and new lvl cap at 50. And make 50 new "blue" level, or red, pink, whatever. This way we could get extra creds and xp for defeating higher lvls and this would help motivation for pvp a lot.

Now for the swords. Simplest thing that comes to my mind: since str runs amok, make "staple" skills require a class weapon (bludgeon for mages, frenzy for tac) which was already here to begin with.

Or remove extra dmg on a sword and maybe make it lower than a class weapon; extra stats are enough imo.

Thing is, there are so many possibilities how to "fix" swords, str, ranks, but honestly I'm not sure any of them is the right way to go, but then I am not a dev. Only thing I know is that current state of the union sucks and big changes are a must now.


Epic  Post #: 16
4/2/2015 7:33:41   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

No, people would quit more because a level 40 would now play 45's? and there isn't a million level 60's around. I just hit 100 yesterday...I do want this moved to suggestions because this needs to change big time. 90% of my battles are against people with Swords which seems a bit ridiculous
AQW Epic  Post #: 17
4/2/2015 9:06:37   
Squrwogrona
Member

@ Ginger

I think that lvl 45 without ranks instead of lvl40 with a rank 60 would be way more balanced and more fun to play against. But that is my opinion.
Epic  Post #: 18
4/2/2015 9:17:08   
The berserker killer
Member

 

^give us levels instead of ranks. Now that's fun
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 19
4/2/2015 10:27:49   
Lord Machaar
Member

^

Yeah too late, if devs ended up "following the wishes" of the kids that play the game, which they have already did with ranking system, the game won't reach 2016. I hope they plan next time before making wishes come true.

@Lord Ginger & Squr

I've mentioned lately that "Ranking system" is a dead end to the game, and the wish that no-lifers had for something to entertain them after level cap, brought the game to its end, even it was the devs fault, bringing a system with no long term vision of its consequences, you think @LordGinger that they will ever release a rank after the rank 60? Believe me, they will never do that. And if they do that, they have one solution to apply, considering that the 60 or 30 ranks added give no advantage also. Meaning that a rank 90 will face a rank 1 considering that the player rank 90 or 120 has 0 advantage. And if they ever think about making ranges like the levels follow, which means that you can't fight a player 60 ranks more or less than you, it will isolate players with higher ranks.

This is due to a lack of long term vision, atleast in the case of levels you can increase the level cap to whatever you want knowing that by the end you won't isolate players that reached the level cap, because many players will follow up soon, and then a new level might be released to a never ending process, and when you said that level 40s will complain fighting level 45s, I frankly can level up quickly from 40 to 45 within a week or a week and half with combination of PVPs and NPCs, knowing that by the end I will catch up, unlike the case of ranks which take a lot of time, creating gaps between players who have different amount of time in their disposal, meaning that by the end of the day majority of players will stop at lower ranks, as a result, 0 chance to expand the ranking system.

Solutions are simple and clear, whether acknowledge that ranks give an advantage, give more rewards for players with low ranks defeating players with high ranks, by the end of the day making more players rank up faster, but still this won't make ranks as flexible as levels in terms of elongation.

But just a side note, I hope next time you make a wish, make sure it is followed with an explanation because frankly people who make your wishes come true in-game have no idea whatsoever about the game.

On the other hand, more simple solutions to entertain players attending level cap, is by what we see now, hardcore missions, features and etc before next level comes out, but everything that is now related to PVP is unwanted due to how much imbalanced it is. Keeping regular leveling up system, with hardcore missions and daily features is a great combo to entertain players after level cap without secrewing and ruining the game's balance, but now it's frankly too late, and any thing that has a relation with PVP, whether hardcore missions or tournaments or... or... or... isn't wanted, because frankly, when you put a hardcore mission with 400 PVP wins, you are directly forcing a player, that has low rank who wish to complete the mission to:
1st - Do 1vs1. (Can be fixed by counting 2vs2 wins as 2 1vs1 wins.)
2nd - Playing in an imbalanced PVP environement.
3rd - Forcing players who wish to complete these missions to do strenght builds.
...

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 4/2/2015 10:51:19 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 20
4/2/2015 13:22:32   
romanu
Member

When was the last time you guys saw a TLM with a club?

It's unfair that it lock only one skill on the tlm and too many skills for the rest.

1)Remove class weapon requirement from 1-2 skills from CH,Merc,TM,BM,BH.



OR

2) Lock 1-2 skills from TLM and give club requirement. Frenzy used to have club requirement, but they removed it for some stange reason.

< Message edited by romanu -- 4/2/2015 13:23:05 >
Post #: 21
4/2/2015 13:27:46   
Mother1
Member

@ romanu

People moaned and groaned about how Frenzy was locked to a club and how it restricted variety. Some even said it would increase variety if they did so and eventually the staff removed the requirement.

But on topic I kind of find it funny that some people want to force people into using class weapons just because they learned how to get around the draw backs of using swords. To be honest it kind of sounds like most people whenever someone using their brain to come up with something effective, then people copy it AKA the cycle that Epic duel has yet to break.
Epic  Post #: 22
4/2/2015 14:23:43   
Squrwogrona
Member

@Machaar

Ofc it is too late and there will be rage no matter what they choose. Worst thing they could do now is do nothing. And nothing has been done for months now...just skirting arround the issue.
Epic  Post #: 23
4/2/2015 14:46:10   
Lord Machaar
Member

A harmless suggestion I gave was totally neglected, adding up more rewards if you defeat players higher rank than you, this suggestion is not just harmless in any form of forms, it also will make ranks elongat"able" (if that's even a word) soon if more and more players reach higher ranks, also it will contribute into making battles more fair by having enough high rank players to play against each other instead of rank 100+ players meet rank 1 players.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 4/2/2015 15:09:57 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 24
4/2/2015 15:31:18   
Mother1
Member

@ lord machaar

For all we know the big surprise with ranks maybe the same suggestion you made which is to give higher rewards for being ranked players.
Epic  Post #: 25
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