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RE: =ED= April 3rd, 2015 - Patch Notes - 1.6.43 (Balance)

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4/3/2015 20:32:49   
Dual Thrusters
Member

From my values below, the new parasite drains only slightly less energy in a shorter amount of time! The opponent is forced to use their energy even more quickly, otherwise they will experience results similar to being hit by a Static Smash!

Anyway, this is a slight nerf if you plan on fighting bosses. Now you only get 2 big bursts of energy instead of 3. The extra 500 EP doesn't help it either. I mean, who the hell fights Armor Hazard with over 1500 EP anyway?

Let's assume that the opponent does not use their energy when affected by parasite. The 1 turn reduction just to the old parasite makes it 28% less effective (logical because the last turn drains the least energy). The extra 5% drain makes the first turn drain 33% more effective, and the second turn drain 25% more effective (because the first hit already drains a good amount of energy, there is a little less for the second to drain).

On an opponent with 600 energy: Original Parasite drains a total of 232 EP. New Parasite drains a total of 216 EP.

Edit: Hm, looks like Machaar already covered these stats :P




< Message edited by Dual Thrusters -- 4/3/2015 21:05:40 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 26
4/3/2015 20:49:16   
overdead
Member

@Dual Thrusters: Actually, with bosses, when you have a variety of skills at your disposal that doesn't use mana or a lot of it, the two short bursts are just right. I find the update with the parasite more strategic because I can cripple those mercs and TLMs quickly, destroying their combo. ;)

I'm just not happy with Bludgeon. I guess that was meant to hit the str builds?

< Message edited by overdead -- 4/3/2015 21:47:06 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 27
4/3/2015 20:59:21   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Some of these are really nice. Most notably:

-Minor energy cost changes will really help some skills although it might seem minimal.
-New adrenaline rush seems very useful and could be fit onto a lot of creative builds
-Fixed energy parasite so there's a 2-turn window where you aren't affected by the drain instead of 1 turn, which is a huge buff

The others kinda just seem out there and are fluff: they do change something but it's really so minimal the difference can barely be seen. While a lot of these changes will affect the really close battles, they won't have much of an impact at all.
Epic  Post #: 28
4/3/2015 21:40:10   
overdead
Member

Yeah, most notable is the adrenaline rush. I'm not a merc and i don't want to spend 50k creds just to test it but I hope someone does. that 60% rage boost plus bunker buster. dayum.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 29
4/3/2015 22:41:17   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

From my experience, energy parasite seems to be a nerf because of a 3 turn cooldown(Im winning way less now) and it's much easier to counter. BH>BM No problemo
AQW Epic  Post #: 30
4/3/2015 23:41:25   
kittycat
Member

Energy Parasite is a buff for levels 1-4, no change at level 5, and a nerf at levels 6-10.

< Message edited by kittycat -- 4/4/2015 0:21:47 >
AQ MQ  Post #: 31
4/3/2015 23:53:28   
overdead
Member

It has always been three. You just get drain 40% energy now instead of 45%.

before:

1 (YOU) use parasite
(OPP) get mana
2 (YOU) cd 3
(OPP) get mana
3 (YOU) cd 2
(OPP) get mana
4 (YOU) cd 1
(OPP) no mana
5 (YOU) parasite ready

Now:

1 (YOU) use parasite
(OPP) get mana
2 (YOU) cd 3
(OPP) get mana
3 (YOU) cd 2
(OPP) no mana
4 (YOU) cd 1
(OPP) no mana
5 (YOU) use parasite
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 32
4/4/2015 5:22:34   
Ranloth
Banned


 Parasite has received what is called a nerf-buff, depending on how you look at it. Shorter duration does make it a nerf, but instead, your opponent loses more EP and it's more effective when it comes to draining and returning in a short period of time (especially when you need it to drain, to stop your opponent).

Flattening the progression should have a minor effect, but it will help when build making and getting your EP's worth - where there used to be diminishing returns before. It was objectively a balance issue, which didn't have a major impact on the game, but needed fixing at some point in time. At least all skills can now be trained to max level, instead of capping at L7-8 - I did so with my MoB.

Bunker and Cannon were just a bit too powerful. Tech builds are very potent for both classes, but not to the point where a major nerf was needed. Considering it had 20% defense ignore and fixed 25% chance to Crit, something had to be lowered - defense ignore, so the nerf wouldn't be luck dependant.
It's interesting how Static Grenade is back to 65% again, like it used to be but when improving with Tech. We'll be watching that one - whether 65% is a bit too high (and 55% was a bit too low), so if need be, it may be bumped down to 60%. Of course, we won't make a change unless there is a solid argument to do so, aka an actual balance issue.

Lastly, Adrenaline will also be watched whether it's good now, or needs a nerf/buff. The damage is intended to be blockable, whilst the effect is not. With how Rage works now, if a Str abuser with base Support tries to abuse it, it'll have significantly smaller impact than Rage did in the past - 26% defense ignore, IIRC, with Merc's base Support. Not mentioning the skill itself deals less damage (85%) which means less Rage gained from it too.

AQ Epic  Post #: 33
4/4/2015 6:59:50   
Lord Machaar
Member

The funny thing here, Rabble balances builds in general, well the thing is:
Some builds are OP at high rank. Meduim OP at meduim ranks. Balanced at low ranks.
If there is something to be changed here it should be ranks. When you balance the build itself however, nerfing/buffing skills, you are just making problems. If you nerf the build, here it what happens.
The build will be Meduim OP at high ranks. Balanced at meduim ranks. Unplayable at low ranks.

This is what happens everytime, you think you are balancing the build, but you are only secrewing it up for low rank players, who many have suggested for them to stop whinning and use OP builds to encounter high rank players, when these OP, but I call them balanced builds get nerfed, because normally if it's OP/Balanced at low ranks, it sure is Super OP in high ranks, leading this build to get nerfed.
This is what happened in the last two patchnotes, attacking skills, and weapons (bots), while leaving the one thing in-common which ranks, which takes 2 mathematical equations to solve, and balance builds within their rank range, you prefer to balance the 20 quadrillion things around it.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 4/4/2015 8:29:10 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 34
4/4/2015 7:57:21   
Squrwogrona
Member

Ok, so I restate that politely, though I was not intending to be rude in the first place.

What was the reason behind points giving equal power at level 1-10, I mean effect is basically the same but now most of lvl 1 skills are more powerfull than before (example level 1 malf: 20 pts now, 14 before) ; before this change I had points put here and there, but now I get nearly 10 spare points with nowhere to go... are you planing to build further on this or is this just unintended side effect for lvl 40's?
Epic  Post #: 35
4/4/2015 8:13:20   
Ranloth
Banned


 Unintended side effect of being L40. Progression change should have very little impact on capped players, but does make a difference if you had only a few skill points invested in a skill (e.g. Smoke and Malf), as well as all the low level players - since they have less skill points to use, and every skill point may count for them (as opposed to having some to dump wherever they want).

There are still more changes planned - any corrections from this patch, if issues arise, and there are some cores which do need attention - especially when it comes to their usefulness in battle. This is on top of the Legendary Mode changes being planned - so we would get around to flattening the progression sooner or later, but may as well as do it sooner, since Legendary Mode changes still require more work.
AQ Epic  Post #: 36
4/4/2015 8:33:35   
santonik
Member

Bloodmages parasite. I think it is too good now. 20% per turn is devastating. 85% damage is devastating. Spammable is devastating. Game is not good counter abilyty against that. Need nerf that overpower parasite. It give bloodmage very fast killing build now. It is even more over power against high energy players. It need lower both damages. physical and energy damage. perhaps 75% physical damage and 15% energy damage.




quote:

I still think that the parasite should be removed from the game. Parasite in place should make a new skill. Similar BUT no % damage to energy.

This would solve a lot of problems out. (balance)
I believe that the high energy players applaud on this issue. Only problem is when it coming.(new skill)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Epic  Post #: 37
4/4/2015 11:03:27   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

quote:

It has always been three. You just get drain 40% energy now instead of 45%.

before:

1 (YOU) use parasite
(OPP) get mana
2 (YOU) cd 3
(OPP) get mana
3 (YOU) cd 2
(OPP) get mana
4 (YOU) cd 1
(OPP) no mana
5 (YOU) parasite ready

Now:

1 (YOU) use parasite
(OPP) get mana
2 (YOU) cd 3
(OPP) get mana
3 (YOU) cd 2
(OPP) no mana
4 (YOU) cd 1
(OPP) no mana
5 (YOU) use parasite


Yes, I know, but now it's Parasite, get mana, get mana, cd cd, use

Parasite as a % was a recipe for disaster, I'd change it to make 300 energy in 2 turns, 100 then 200 or something like that, then drains 150 of opponents 75 each turn not by a %


< Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 4/4/2015 11:05:31 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 38
4/5/2015 7:58:33   
Darkwing
Member

Mark of blood just got a buff ? wow


That skill promoted strength build that get free heals and also attack you at the same time. In 2vs2 is even worse, since both players heals and kill you at the same time.


24 energy cost is nothing these days.


It's better then passive bloodlust ever was.


It should give a fixed amount of health back, not improve with damage.


The problem with PVP these days it that a strength build with many legendary ranks and mark of blood is hard to stop.

< Message edited by Darkwing -- 4/5/2015 8:00:06 >
Post #: 39
4/5/2015 8:08:54   
Ranloth
Banned


 1% at max level, is hardly a noticeable buff. It's 1 HP more per 100 damage...

Let's compare old and new values:
Level 1: 15% -> 15%
Level 2: 18% -> 17%
Level 3: 20% -> 19%
Level 4: 22% -> 21%
Level 5: 24% -> 23%
Level 6: 26% -> 25%
Level 7: 28% -> 27%
Level 8: 30% -> 29%
Level 9: 31% -> 31%
Level 10: 32% -> 33%

So, it got a nerf below Level 9, same power as it did at Level 9, and 1% more at Level 10. It may be just a 1% nerf, but it's only 1% buff too. The difference is very minor - even for a Strength build who may Rage you for ~400 damage, it'll be just 4 HP. And just 4 HP less for everything below Level 9.
AQ Epic  Post #: 40
4/5/2015 8:28:04   
Darkwing
Member

Tell me how is this skill balanced based on damage?

As long as you can do high damage, this skill saved the trouble to defend and just attack. Strength build can do more then 1000 damage in 3 turns, enough to get at least 33 heal back only from this.

Why not make this fixed, like you get 70 HP every turn for 3 turns, not damage based.




< Message edited by Darkwing -- 4/5/2015 8:31:18 >
Post #: 41
4/5/2015 8:46:53   
Lord Machaar
Member

I frankly can't blame anyone for abusing strenght builds. Devs and guest members are promoting for it.
Hardcore missions themselves aren't the problem, but presenting hardcore missions in an imbalanced PVP environement. When you give a player 600 PVP wins. You are forcing him to do 1vs1. On top of that using strenght build. Till here all good, but when strenght builds are massively promoted, they don't give fast wins only, but a better winning ratio than slow builds, who normally should have a better winning ratio.
Strenght builds are a byproduct of massive promoting. Hardcore missions aren't the problem, but presenting them in an imbalanced PVP environement is. You know that the game is imbalanced, and exactly where is the imbalance, yet you use this imbalance, tell me this isn't promoting, tell me this isn't intended.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 4/5/2015 8:49:54 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 42
4/5/2015 9:29:12   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
True that sir! Str build do offer good % now, and promoted because missions!
AQW Epic  Post #: 43
4/5/2015 10:08:03   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 In a game like this it only takes 1% to make a huge difference. Players lose because of 1%. Stop underestimating your game
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 44
4/5/2015 10:32:32   
Lord Machaar
Member

http://puu.sh/h2mCz/c1f16eaeb9.jpg

These kind of builds combine:
High Hp.
High Strenght.
Relatively high defense and resistance.
Enough dex to make you spam striking button.
And you can see how ranks cover up the lack of resistance, sure they won't give you a chance to deflect, but who needs a sidearm, when he can just strike.
As a result you will have fast wins with good winning ratio. Fast wins is totally okay for these builds, it was the case since the beginning of the game, but when they have good winning ratio due to high defense/resistance, which is usally a weakness till ranks took place, it will make these builds perfect (no weaknesses), the problem is other builds remained the same.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 4/5/2015 10:45:39 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 45
4/5/2015 15:12:53   
a non varium player
Member
 

 Animation of mark should be like technician but to be casted on opponent so that no damage would be done or rage gained, that promotes strength builds
Post #: 46
4/5/2015 17:23:32   
Squrwogrona
Member

Something to add to str builds dominating... well after this change, I went cyber again, bcs shadow arts can now be maxed without wasting efficiency per point and it is a good counter against str. The flat % reduction of everything is a godsend. Also seems to affect blocks, but as they're handled by rng, I can't really say it is a SA thing, bcs sometimes str just spanks me without block, sometimes I block 3-4 times... and combined with static charge having 3 turns cd, it is finally usable more than once in the fight.

This balance update finally introduced usable skill combo, albeit for CHs only, that is actually viable against str hordes even with high ranks. So here is hoping that other classes get similar treatment in the future and that this one thing done right doesn't get nerfed, just bcs str users finally can't just steamroll through everything.

Took over a year, but finally one thing done right in regards of str domination. So thanks balance team and keep up the good work.

< Message edited by Squrwogrona -- 4/5/2015 17:24:39 >
Epic  Post #: 47
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