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Ranks review (problems)

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4/7/2015 15:54:15   
Lord Machaar
Member

According to ED team, ranks are getting a review, a review that will probably lead to a fix.
It's hard to balance ranks without testing, since rabblefroth only uses his calculator to fix skills, sadly ranks aren't skills, so you can't just base the fix on numbers.

Anyways, crossing fingers that rabblefroth don't secrew it up, and do the opposite thing we are thinking of by buffing ranks.
There are 2 solutions to fix ranks, a chain of patchnotes, or a total revamp.
I don't think high rank players are having problems at the moment, the fix will mainly focus on low rank players, that's what I'm thinking.

Locating the problem is critical for this fix, personally, and after playing almost 10 first ranks without NPCing, here is what I think are the biggest problems about ranks.
1- Limited amount of builds to use. I'm still forced to use tank build.
2- Some builds are promoted indirectly with this system.
3- "Ranks give 0 advantage", this is something I hate about this system, +40 robot/auxilliary/sidearm damage, +30 defense, resistance and +30 primary damage, is considered as 0 advantage, having 60 ranks is the equivalent of having perma +6 cores (stat boosters), in strenght (primary, sidearm), in dex (defense), in tech (resistance and bot), in support (aux).
10 Legendary Points of Primary/Side arm damage (+30 and +40) = equivalent of 4 - 3 Perma +6 core of strenght (strenght stat booster), depending on how much stats you are spending on str. http://epicduelwiki.com/w/Strength_Boost_x30
10 legendary points of auxiliary damage (+40) = equivalent of 4 - 3 perma +6 cores on support (supp stat booster). http://epicduelwiki.com/w/Support_Boost_x30
10 legendary points of resistance and bot damage (+30 and +40)= equivalent of 4 - 3 perma cores +6 core (tech stat booster) of technology. http://epicduelwiki.com/w/Technology_Boost_x30
10 legendary points of defense (+30)= equivalent of 3 perma +6 core on dexterity (dex stat booster). http://epicduelwiki.com/w/Dexterity_Boost_x30
This give us a total number of 10 - 8 stat booster cores, perma, this is just to show the advantage ranks give. Advantage that isn't counted, a rank 1 = rank 60.
Some will say that these cores give chance to block, crit, deflect, start first, so legendary points can't be considered as boosting cores, I would say that this is partially true, for some builds, like tanks, but for some other builds, strenght for example, they aren't interested in doing a crit nor starting first nor deflecting, so in this case a bunch of legendary points equal boosting core except for dex.
4- 0 chance to add more ranks. This is the consequence, and first sign that this system is imbalanced.
5- Balance, it is hard to balance builds/classes with ranks, best example, strenght TLMs with poison, it was an OP build for sure, but was poison OP for all builds? rank ranges? Now you can still see some high rank players playing str tlm poison build, but never a low ranker.)

You are welcome to post your thoughts on the problems I gave, can they even be considered as problems?

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 4/8/2015 10:11:15 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 1
4/8/2015 6:36:11   
Oswald Cobblepot
Member

I've read all your suggestion and I agree partially with that.
But in my opinion ranks should be like items enhancements in Delta. With all items enhanced they could touch you? No, their damage was too low and you could be a real tank or whatever..
Ranks points should work like this, giving you a real advantage by the rank you are (if you have used ur legendary points)
And the changes should be done not only for the low rank players but for the high rank players too.
So we will be able to try 2v1 in a high rank.
About balance/overpowered players. It's ok, not everybody should be weak. But it will be impossible to lvls 38/39 kill a legendary rank60 player..
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
4/8/2015 10:07:12   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Personally I don't see a limit of builds. I just see a limit of fun builds. If retraining were made free then players would definitely find more builds and since "builds" seem to be the basis of this discussion then maybe we should start with free retraining costs.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 3
4/8/2015 17:47:49   
dfo99
Member
 

 if instead nerf the devs enable more 60 rank slots (using 120 in total) i will find it good, ofc the rank 120 player will be extreme hard, but how much you play more stronger you should be.
Post #: 4
4/8/2015 18:07:04   
Lord Machaar
Member

Given the fact that a player rank 120 faces a level 38/38 right now, it means that even after making another 60 ranks count"able", a rank 120 will still face a level 38/39? is it fair?
The only solution to make such thing happen, it's by adimtting that ranks give an advantage like levels do.
Otherwise, if they choose to keep same system, it's whether they let a rank 120 face a player level 38/39 without doing nothing and that means the end of the game. Or they make rank ranges, you can only face a player 60 ranks above or below you, making players with rank 80+ isolated.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 4/8/2015 18:22:14 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 5
4/8/2015 18:13:29   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

Isolation isn't a good choice, I still remember when level 40 came out, the majority of 35's were complaining(the noob ones). If ranks were gone, They could do that, however now, Isolation will make the people who think they're good from NPC mad because they can't win, and will make the other people isolated from the good people. I used to wait to level up and play the "pros"
\



@berzerkerkiller, however, people who want a good build that wins there is a limited amount of builds. No one uses 5focus mercenary with a sword anymore.In fact my level 31 BH friend beat a 36 5foc mercenary w/ a sword.

< Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 4/8/2015 18:20:18 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 6
4/8/2015 18:31:35   
Mother1
Member

@ Lord ginger

I remember that as well because they felt it wasn't fair that they should have to face player who has 5 level + ranks advantage over them when in reality ranks while giving an advantage didn't give as much as level unless you had a lot of them.

So the staff gave them what they wanted and isolated the smallest player group at the time which those players (lower levels) Thought it was fair. However for 38 and 39 the stress was put on them and it was like their level range for opponents doesn't even matter anymore due to all the level 40's looking for opponents they would automatically be pulled to the level 40's despite have a 33-40 range (if level 38) or 34-40 range (if level 39)

I remember that day well because when I started playing 1 vs 1 I was pulled into 30 matches with level 40's with high ranks and the complainers response was "it is better for the 38's ad 39's to deal with it so the level 35-37's can stand to stay in the game long enough to deal with this. Funny thing is that I don't even see those posters here anymore and now we have level 38-39 wanting level 40's to fight only level 40's now due to this same issue.
Epic  Post #: 7
4/8/2015 20:25:21   
Lord Machaar
Member

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXsV98zn7wY

Here is a video showing str blood mages in action, for god sake, when str builds had insanely high def/resis? when a str build user raged with his aux? now ranks give additional points to make all these things possible.
@Lord ginger you appeared in minute 4:30 or something, I see that you encountered this build, but only thanks to your ranks, if you were rank 1 would you survive the battle? I want a honest response, because sadly devs think ranks gives 0 advantage, and if it was the case why rank 60 tank players encounter str builds and rank 1 tank can't?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDQUX8IM0tc

Here is a tank BM, you think he would have survived half of these battles without his ranks? I think not.

And it is just sad to see level 38s and 39s face such insanely OP builds with high rank players, this alone can make vast majority of players who reach these levels quit. Sadly it was the case for juggs before, when we used to have 100% win ratios, that sure pissed off new players, because first of all they played in a battle mode they didn't want to play in, against an OP enemy. I hope by fixing juggs they don't repeat the same mistake. Worst thing is to make your players a farming product like a NPC, what's the fun in that? and in this case adding hardcore missions with 600 PVP is just promoting for these builds, making these missions hardcore for some, and a reward for others. Play the god damn 600 PVP games with a rank 1 and let's see if you can ask for more hardcore missions. And this is a serious message, you wouldn't take off enhancements if you didn't that the game was secrewed up with, sure the compensation was a disaster, but you learn from your mistakes.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 4/8/2015 20:32:21 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 8
4/15/2015 0:22:40   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

@machaar, I had 60 ranks just as he did. And no, I wouldn't. But if he was rank 1 as well(he's rank 60 just like me) It would be the same story.
AQW Epic  Post #: 9
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