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Making Epicduel epic again

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4/8/2015 8:49:25   
Camoflague MerC
Member

Hello everyone i started playing this game in very early beta around 2009 and i mostly enjoyed my time playing this game when it was in beta, the last time i played this game for any length of time was over 3 years ago, i occasionally make an appearance out of curiosity or simply being bored to see if this game is getting anywhere in terms off balance/fun/player base/community etc etc, and everytime i have come back my stay in this game has become shorter and shorter as I've only been seeing a dying game which could have been more but hasn't adapted to the times because of the use of a very outdated business model and little interaction with the community especially concerning balance. Got nothing better to do so I'm gonna (probably) waste my time telling the developers what they probably already know but don't seem to care enough to do anything about, and how they could possibly bring it back to life, i remember when this game was fun and I'm sure many people would come back if the right changes where made, it may be too late as the player base for this game seems to be getting smaller every year, i doubt anyone will take notice and the snowball effect to get those old players back and new players in will be small, but nonetheless i have nothing better to do on the holidays so here-goes.

Balance:
This game was alot more fun back in beta when classes where unique and gameplay was alot simpler even with the huge gap between pay to win varium and non-varium, all these poorly balanced skill cores and the removal of passives have taken alot of the uniqueness out of the classes and fun from the game, pay to win is an extremely outdated business model and no one will ever return to it when the most popular and successful games in the world are free too play (-cs) and give no one any kind of advantage for putting more money into the game than someone else. I know you can buy the vast majority of things with credits now but everything is so absurdly priced (obviously you are trying to get people to give you money instead of having to mercilessly grind for years to get the item they want, I'm sure this worked well 10 years ago but your pulling your leg now if your still clinging to this as your way of barely making enough money to keep this game afloat), at least you got rid of enchantments which were a joke, i remember back in beta when there were 4 servers in this game with one of them usually having over 1000 players on it and the other around 500 at most times, if i remember correctly the other two where test servers (correct me if I'm wrong), now there are barely 500 at peak times, and there is only 1 server left, the player base is about 300% less from beta.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

What should be done:

-Massively reduce the price of everything, people should only be using varium for a cosmetic edge over their counterparts, having everything cost so much is a massive putt off, for new players especially.

-I know there are still some weapons in the game which where only available with varium and do have some advantage compared to their non-varium counterparts. Go through all of these weapons and make make them the same as their non-varium counterparts.

-Everything that was/is only available with varium made available with credits.

-Make retrain free, I've never understood why you put a cost on retraining, people play this game to have fun with different builds and experiment, that's one of the reasons that made this game so appealing at the start, losing lots of money through huge amounts of retraining and being at a stat disadvantage because of less money, and therefore having not as good items. Being punished for creativity, quite possibly one of the stupidest things I've seen in a game, certainly a contributing factor to why the player base has dropped.

-Make swords and class weapons the same stats wise, seriously stupid that you can't use some skills because of the type of weapon your wielding, defeats the point of the entire game, massacre and many other skills could just have a different animation with a sword, would make things cooler.

-Add passives back, the one thing that made classes feel unique where passives, although when passives where a thing you were basically forced to max them out or lose every game, so i have a suggestion for that.

-Make blocking, deflecting and critical strikes less game breaking by having block and deflect only reduce damage by 40%. And a critical strike only ignore 20% of your defence/resistance. Keep rage.

-Change the skills that are the same over some classes a bit so they are unique and add to the feel of the class. For example you could change Battery backup on Techmages to a skill called Perseverance, when used instantly gain x amount of mana and 20% of the damage taken in the last 3 turns as mana.

-Fix stuns so they are not so gamebreaking, change stuns so instead of 100% wasting someone's turn which is completely game changing for a luck based skill, make it so all there skills take an extra turn to cooldown/warmup (does not increase max cooldown/warmup time) before they can be used again, stuns have a 100% chance to hit, but only a 30% chance to disorientate, which makes the enemies next attack do 65% less damage. (this part is thoerycrafting, might edit it later).

-Remove skillcores or have a good long hard look at them and balance them properly...currently the pay to win advantage that varium users get.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I propose having each class have a different unique passive that will make each class feel individual these passives are designed to not be as strong as the original passives but be a uniqueness associated with each class, additionally these passives automatically level up every two levels (maxed at level 20), and does not count towards the amount of skill points you have to use with the other skills available in your skilltree. These are the results of my theorycrafting.

Bounty hunter: Bloodlust:

Gives passive lifesteal and increases your melee damage the lower your opponents health.

0.7% passive lifesteal gained per level (max 7%)
You deal an extra +3 damage per level when your opponent is under 25% hp. (max +30 damage)

Techmage: Reroute:

0.9% passive mana regen when attacked (max 9%)
Gives the option to convert 60% of mana which has been regened (only mana gained through Reroute) to be added as raw damage in your next melee attack. Has a 5 turn cooldown.
Example: you have regained a total of 50 mana during a fight, a melee attack used with Reroute deals the skills damage +30 damage from Reroute.

Mercenary: Adaptive Armour:

Gives a passive +2.2 armour increase per level in your defence and resistance.
(max +22 armour).
Your armour bonus can be combined and switched to either stack on your defence or resistance with an additional armour gain of +3 per level, can only be used once per battle (max +72 armour for resistance or defence). However when used you are vulnerable for 1 turn, taking an additional 15% damage.

Cyber Hunter: Synergizer:

Adds a small bonus to your resistance and block chance. Passively increases your raw gun damage for 1 attack for every consecutive attack hit in a row, uses max damage stack. 6 turn cooldown after gun is used with a damage stack (cooldown doesn't affect gun, just the use of damage gained from stacks created by Synergizer).
Gives a passive +2.7 armour increase in your resistance and 0.6% additional block chance per level (max +27 resistance and +6% block chance).
+13 damage per stack per level, (max 5 stacks, max +65 damage).


Blood Mage: Bloodrite:

When used purges all negative debuffs at the cost of 16% of your health, if there are no debuffs to be purged only costs 8% health, adds a 1.2% damage bonus and +2.8% lifesteal per level on your next attack
(max +12% damage and 28% lifesteal on your next attack). 5 turn cooldown.

Tactical Mercenary: Tactics:

Tactics has a 3 turn warmup and costs 250 mana to use. When used prevents all crits, blocks and deflections from occuring for 2 turns while decreasing any damage you take by 2% per level (max 20%) for 1 turn and empowering one of your skills on its next use (you select the skill, used by clicking on Tactics, then clicking on desired skill, shows which skill you have empowered). Can only be used once per battle.

Note: Max scaling is shown because i cbf writing everything down lol, so any values there would be 10% of what they are shown as at level 1

Toxic Grenade: +10 damage per turn, Incurable by field medic.
Field Medic: Adds +20 defence for 2 turns and is 15% more effective.
Double Strike: Strike a third time (counts as a normal strike). (for lower levels the third strike would do 50% damage +5% per level)
Blood Shield: Inverses skill, healing yourself for x2 the amount of armour and costing 90 mana, adding +30 resistance for five turns.
Frenzy: Damage to health is increased by a raw 10%, grants 3x energy as a % of damage dealth, ignores 25% defence.
Mineral Armour: Now costs 60hp to use, and adds a raw 50 damage on your next attack.
Field Commander: Adds a mana burn to health effect, 15% of damage dealt burns mana, all burned mana comes back as health.
Artillery Strike: Deals 120% damage to single target, 110% damage to multiple targets.
Battery Backup: Increases mana gain by 15% of current health, prevents loss of mana for 2 turns, 10% of mana gained is dealt as raw damage next melee attack.
Atom Smasher: Deals damage, 40% of the mana drain conversion is added as ignored defence.
Surgical Strike: Lifesteal increased by 30%. Mana cost reduced by 150.
Stun Grenade: 100% stun chance and increases damage by 10% and 40 raw damage.

All i got for now, i love theory crafting and i had alot of fun thinking of these abilitys and they are just ideas, but don't take that as a sign I'm messing around, I'm trying to be as balanced as possible, while making the game fun for all, all this is purely theory crafting i welcome all constructive feedback. Most curious to see if moderators exist in this forum still, or devs even look here. Last time i posted must have been 4 years ago.

Moved to ED Balance ~Battle Elf





< Message edited by Camoflague MerC -- 4/8/2015 19:03:26 >
Epic  Post #: 1
4/8/2015 14:26:03   
Alkimos
Banned


 I always admired this guy in beta. He knows what he is talking about & played as a non-varium mercenary IIRC. He was one heck of a good one at that. So with that said, I obviously agree with the hybrid passive change. In beta, that was the only way to counter tech mage loop healers. I also strongly agree with the swords issue. This effects Mercenary's mainly because of static smash requiring a maul. With all this energy manipulation, a mercenary can only wield a sword if they decide to go as a glass cannon strength build. This is very poor considering the options you had back than. Mercenary is a one-dimension class as I see it at this point.

The retraining fee is a big one because this ultimately just punishes players not familiar with builds. This leads to players copying builds used by a player with high rank/lots of wins. For that matter alone you might as well put losses back in the game
Epic  Post #: 2
4/8/2015 16:40:02   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

-Make blocking, deflecting and critical strikes less game breaking by having block and deflect only reduce damage by 40%. And a critical strike only ignore 20% of your defence/resistance. Keep rage.


I don't know if you have played the game recently or not, but super strenght builds have emerged, builds with 110 + 35 strenght, making their primary damage close to 600 - 650, plus ranks.
Till here all fine, these builds are older than some players, abusing strenght like everybody does with support, totally okay and understandable. But here is the thing. Abusing strenght + having high defense and resistance is wrong. Ranks cover up the lack of defense and resistance. The only thing that is holding up this build a little bit, is blocking and deflecting, otherwise these builds will finish you up in 4 turns, as a tank, when I face such builds, I receive a damage equal to 25% of my hp (250). The fact that your opponent hits you with 250 damage, and only your best damage does that, is pretty wrong.

This problem has affected directly last hardcore missions, hardcore missions and strenght builds (fast builds in general) go hand in hand, especially when the game is imbalanced, and the developpers are massively promoting for these builds, making other builds go down the hill..

On passive skills:
I think instead of making new skills, I suggest making "Special cores" for each class, cores that you can't buy using other classes. Your ideas are pretty cool though. Even though numbers you gave are pretty imbalanced comparing them to the game right now, but that's a natural thing since you don't have the tools to test your skills. a PTR-like server would serve the best in making the suggestions of players more solid. Because I heard once that rabblefroth shuts down most of the suggestions just by reading them, well that's normal, you have testers that have a server in their hand but still can't balance the game, atleast players are using their imagination to fix the game or atleast make it better.


< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 4/8/2015 17:30:50 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 3
4/8/2015 17:38:02   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

@lordmachaar Everything you talk about is ranks, if you were high, you wouldn't complain. Think of Ranks→non-ranks as Varium→non-varium (w/out money of course) The varium people didn't complain, the non vars did. It's the same with ranks. Var/Ranks=Advantage. This is skewed because now varium doesn't matter, but it's a similar concept. Strength builds are used for speed. I beat 110+35 Countless times, sure I'm rank 60+, but they're about 30. Most people bot anyway, and losses don't matter anymore. Low %? Who cares, no one can see them. It's stupid I understand, however if to have fun in longrun, most people bot quick losses to rank quickly.
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
4/8/2015 17:49:16   
Lord Machaar
Member

If I was a high rank player, I will say the truth, if I had 60 ranks in my pocket, I will definetly have 100% win ratio, and I will say it.
Ranks have built up arrogant players, just like varium did in the past, players who get mad if they lose one battle in 100 battles. Players who are afraid to lose the advantage, and once varium lost a vast majority of its advantage, they left, I don't call those players. I say this because I was one of those players, when jugg first came out, I had 100% win ratio, I got mad if I lost in a battle, and you can see this because my jugg record is close to 98% win ratio, with 5.5k wins and 170 losses. Everytime I'm thinking to break this record by playing jugg again and give new players a true challenge, even though jugg now is imbalanced for high level players, it was imbalanced for them back then.
The reason why I talk about ranks because I know from my experience, it is a deadly mistake, that will lead to the end of the game, and then you can use that advantage against Titan himself or NW when no one is playing the game, not many players will talk about this, even "Pro" players won't talk about it, whether they are looking for a spot in the team, or they have advantage they don't want to lose.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 4/8/2015 17:51:37 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 5
4/8/2015 17:59:44   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

I know that ranks are pretty stupid, I will admit it. In fact, I prefer when I would play people that were really good, however now, we have people(kind of like me) who think they're really amazing because they have 60 ranks in their pocket and can shove together any build they want and it will work. One day I had a 96% win ratio as a Bounty Hunter, it was the day before the skill swap in skill tree day. If I lost a battle, I
ll admit it, I was really hacked off, I don't know if it's me, but there is a lot of people who happen to think they're good when everything lucky happens to them. This game is hardly any fun when a rank 60 loses, the other person is most likely snapshotting and bragging about it. Juggernaut is imbalanced now, Now the win percent is almost 100% for the opposing people. I hardly got to experience juggernaut, I wish I could have, you know? Always want what you don't have. I will talk about ranks in a calmly fashion instead of going into a PVP battle and my opponent immediately says "OMG RANK 101!" And starts to complain how ranks are imbalanced. If I was in your same spot, I would push for a change, having to NPC to salvage a win record is pretty embarrassing and pathetic and I have about 20,000 NPC's. I do have about 31.000 1v1's, however that was because I would 1v1 then NPC for fast rankings. Similar idea of, whoever can buy the most varium and upgrade overpowered weapons with a good build will win the majority of the time. I like having an advantage, It is nice to go into a battle knowing you're 96% sure you're going to win, but it's not FUN for me anymore when I go into battle, look at opponent and think, "Oh great, I win no problem."
AQW Epic  Post #: 6
4/8/2015 18:16:35   
Mother1
Member

Here is an idea.

How about we make some free cores and promo cores that don't have to do with strength? Seriously as it is now just about 90% of the cores if not more in the game are strength powered. We have 0 dex and tech powered cores and two maybe three support powered core.

They want to bring variety to the game yet they are doing everything in their power to promote strength and shove it down the masses throats.

Even the vast majority of promo cores run off of strength as well with very few exceptions.

It is no wonder why most people are running strength builds because with the current situation of the game + the cores we are given that is what most players now run.



< Message edited by Mother1 -- 4/8/2015 18:17:12 >
Epic  Post #: 7
4/8/2015 18:18:58   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

I hardly even use cores. I don't think it's a major problem besides the overpowered strength of meteor shower, but some people use frost shards, which is a tech based/strength base core because of the Deflection chance. This also wouldn't help the rank factor. Honestly, If I was strength, having a tech core wouldn't matter because my strength is already 650 primary.
AQW Epic  Post #: 8
4/8/2015 18:28:22   
Camoflague MerC
Member

@Lord Machaar
It's probably been about a year since i played this game last and i've only been played a small amount recently to see if its changed from when i last played, so yeah I'm pretty out of touch with which builds are OP now but from the small amount of battles (mainly 2v2) I've played recently I've noticed an abundance of 110+35 mercenary support builds, which have been relatively easy for me to counter on my BH with a static grenade + reflex boost, but have taken alot more skill as my TacM.

However in saying this i don't remember a time when pure strength builds weren't powerful, they have always been very viable especially on the old BH, its difficult to nerf strength, i think the answer may lie in scaling strike less with strength so say if you have 110+35 strength your pistol has 600-650 damage but your strike only say 530-630? (discuss) this wont just be a nerf to strength but also super tank builds or 5 focus builds (my fav) basically all builds, with strike doing alot less base damage and strength scaling having diminishing returns for strike the higher it goes. This would help balance huge strength builds, you will be taking a fair bit less damage from strike and they will have to rely on their pistol for their max damage attack, this makes the fight last longer and make it alot more controllable and gives you more options, if they have rage and their pistol is energy then putting up an energy shield is probably a good idea as they are going to (most likely) want to use their most powerful attack with rage, but at the same time your strike (assuming your strength isn't very high, VS a strength build) wont be very strong so you wont be doing much damage with it. Another idea I've been toying with is having a smaller reduction on strength for strike but, having strike have a cooldown if you hit an opponent x amount of times, its great to see some people are still interested in balancing ED (hi mother1, i remember you from 4-5 years ago haha, nice to see your still around) so lets get a good discussion going!

@Alkimos

Thank you for the kind words friend.
Epic  Post #: 9
4/8/2015 18:35:31   
Mother1
Member

@ Camoflague MerC

I personally think that strike itself show either

A) have the damage bonus completely removed (meaning Strike doesn't improve with any stat and only works with weapon damage) Because it is the only move free of cool down and energy cost and the only downside is that it can be blocked.

or

B) Add a new game mechanic that makes it so every time you use strike the power goes down with the cap being 60% damage. Not using strike reverse the effect by the same amount it decreases.



< Message edited by Mother1 -- 4/8/2015 18:36:41 >
Epic  Post #: 10
4/8/2015 18:51:55   
Camoflague MerC
Member

@Mother1

I dont like the idea of having the strength damage bonus completely removed from strike, it would make strength too weak in my opinion, and having everyone on an even playing field with strike, builds with base 17+0 strength would be absurd, not to mention that it would make alot of ability's obsolete, think Double Strike for example, if there was say a base strike damage for everyone at lvl 40 say of 480-580, putting skill points into Double Strike would be wasted because it wouldn't have the damage potential to justify the cost of the skill, it also kinda removes the point of the skill, which is to be used effectively with some kind of strength build.

Your other idea is however interesting and has some merit, punishing the overuse of strike, and making a strength abusing opponent consider having to use some of his other ability's to maximize his potential in a fight seems like a great idea, my only concern is with strength powered skills, there are enough of them on each class to win a fight without even using strike, this plus a decrease in strength scaling for strike could be what's needed to balance strength once and for all.

Regarding skill cores, the passive ones give some interesting and unique ability's to a battle and don't seem that OP, i especially like generator and the core that makes your heal 20% more effective when under 20% health, but most of the promo cores that aren't passives seem ridiculously OP (i especially dont like the one which deals damage and forces the opponent to strike you, wasting their turn unless they have absurd amounts of strength haha), and as you said generally seem most helpful to strength builds, the devs need to make a decision, remove cores, maybe make them only passives (1 for each weapon maybe?) or actually PROPERLY put time and effort in to balance these absurdly OP cores which provide some seriously game changing moves, I can only imagine how much of a gigantic advantage they provide at the lower levels to varium users.

< Message edited by Camoflague MerC -- 4/8/2015 18:55:59 >
Epic  Post #: 11
4/8/2015 19:10:21   
Alphaeus
Member
 

 From an Early Gamma Player's perspective, I could not agree more!!
I have been playing this game regularly (on and off) for years, and I can remember the early days of which Camo Merc speaks so longingly. I have a Jugg accnt that has topped the Jugg charts, so I can speak of being powerful as well. Anyhow, in my mind, things need to change.

1) I too sincerely miss the passives, and loath the credit costs. I have a merc accnt, BH, CH, and TM accnts as well, and I can see the balance issues that they cause. The Hunter classes in general are under powered and the skills are set up terribly. The passive skills are the biggest things that would help this game return to a balanced state

2)ED has started focussing on all of these "quest storylines" which I hate. Give me a few random quests, or at least stick with the overall Exile vs. Legion theme, and cut the $#!+.

3) I LOVE WARS!!! Keep them coming, instead of making people wait months to get a new one, and having to fight for weeks just to win one once the devs finally get around to giving us a war. Make the wars short, sweet, and in swift succession. And give decent bonuses for your influence. I got the max award last war, and all I got were 10k creds (which can buy very little in valuable goods) 10 arcade tokens (which won me nothing useful), and a suit of armor that wasn't even rare. I would have liked to have gotten at least 100k-200k creds for the top award, and have gotten an Ultra-rare suit of armor. Having awards like this would help reward active players for their support.

4) Cut the costs!!! I bought several varium packages recently, the first time in 5 years of playing that I have spent money, and even the VARIUM bought me very little. 25 bucks in one accnt, and 25 bucks in another. Each account got one mid-quality bot (not one of the best, but at least useful), and either a couple cores and a gun, or a class change (since BH has been castrated since Delta ended, I moved to CH and bought a sword, which did help a little). Cut all game costs by AT LEAST 50%. More would be helpful, but less change would be useless.

5) Empower the buffs!! My CH uses malfuction regularly, and it helps, since it does mainly energy damage. But this pathetic little reduction that it does even at max is pitiful. I mean, a lvl 3 tech boost for most players (or lvl 3 energy shield) MORE than conteracts my maxxed out, manna sapping buff. DOUBLE the power of the buffs, and also cut the strength of shields of all sorts by at least 30%. I have the CH energy shield maxxed, and when activated I have over 700 resist. That is INSANE (And becaues I like it, that is why i can dish it.)

I personally don't mind having swords be better, since I have some accnts with class weps and one with a sword. I would like to see a skill that could convert from class wep to sword, maybe even with a change in effect. I also like cores, and think that they should continue unchanged.

That's my thoughts on the matter.

< Message edited by Alphaeus -- 4/8/2015 19:14:11 >
Post #: 12
4/8/2015 19:26:04   
Lord Machaar
Member

The irony is, the only build that can abuse strenght now is BM (Merc also, but they can easily be encountered), and best class to encounter these kind of builds is also BM class (Intimidate + Kartherax).
I can't deny that BM was the underdog (also CH) the underdog for a very long time, but seriously, you buff classes to the point where you make other classes unplayable, and sadly this is due to the lack of testing.

@Mother1:
I agree with camo on this one, if strike doesn't improve with strenght, strenght will go down the hill, as basically there is no skill that improves with strenght, nor something else that affects the game (support improves the chance to start first, crit and some skills and auxilliary damage, tech improves deflecting chance and robot damage and some skills, and dex improves blocking chance and some skills), strenght makes up for not improving any skill nor a chance to do something, it improves strike which can be used each and every turn. If they remove this, str will go down the hill.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 4/8/2015 19:45:05 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 13
4/8/2015 19:32:26   
Camoflague MerC
Member

@Alphaeus

I too agree that debuffs feel a bit underpowered but doubling their effectiveness would definitely make them OP. :p
An small increase in stat scaling, or just a raw increase would be good.
The shields have never struck me as OP, you sacrifice a turn to use them so you would expect them to be able to be worth the cost of a turn and a decent amount of energy, its all about knowing when to shield, a shield used to early or too late can be the reason you lose a battle, and at max level your energy shield will be sucking a huge amount of mana per use, a smart opponent would have read your build at the start of the fight and should have a way to deal good damage to your resistance or defence, or counter shield himself and draw out the fights length to play to his winning strategy (example: waiting for rage Infernal Bot, which is a great way to deal with builds that have some reliance on tanking/heavy shielding) etc etc. Lets keep the feedback coming!
Epic  Post #: 14
4/8/2015 19:43:54   
Mother1
Member

@ Lord Machaar

Fire ball improves with strength, as well as all melee based moves and cores. In other words moves with multiplier are the moves the improve with strength. Also it would only be strike that is affected by this not the other moves that work with the primary. So Bludgeon, Frenzy, Etc and all the cores that work with it will still maintain their damage status. However strike would be the only move that is affected by this change.
Epic  Post #: 15
4/8/2015 19:53:11   
Lord Machaar
Member

Strenght improves some skills, but sadly, for some classes only, sure strenght improves assimilation for tech mage, but strenght builds for tech mages is something odd, since assimilation is the only thing that is attached to str in Techamges. But for BM, the whole class is like built to be a strenght class, some skills that improve with strenght (bludgeon and) and some others undirectly, parasite and blood mark, all these skills are str build oritented, and are all used in strenght builds.

quote:

However strike would be the only move that is affected by this change.


In this case, sure, but affecting all other skills that improve with strenght (assimilation, frenzy, cheap shot.. etc) it will make the stat weak.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 4/8/2015 19:58:17 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 16
4/8/2015 20:14:58   
Camoflague MerC
Member

@Mother1

So your saying that % based skills that are stronger with higher strength that work off of strike damage would just have their % increased by strength? I really don't like that idea, it would seriously imbalance alot of skills, can you imagine Berzerker dealing 200% damage? or Massacre 300%? it would create too many balance issues too top of the ones we already have, not too mention making everything alot more mana dependant.

Would love to hear some more feedback on my idea for the passives, also my haphazard delve into trying to balance stuns.

< Message edited by Camoflague MerC -- 4/8/2015 20:22:25 >
Epic  Post #: 17
4/8/2015 20:59:05   
Mother1
Member

@ Camoflague Merc

No What I am saying is this. Skills would work the same way as they do no damage wise. However Strike itself would only do weapon damage (plus ranks if you have them)

Also Passives as much as I would love to have them back has already been vetoed by the staff. Many threads to bring passives back be they suggestion or balance have been shot down by the staff with the words say

"Passives skills will never return to epic duel." (Minus passive cores of course.
Epic  Post #: 18
4/8/2015 21:18:37   
The Hulk
Banned


 Hi Shego, long time no see ;))). Hope you remember me.


I think if they just bring back enhancements, then loads of players would come back. that is the main reason why people left, peopel spent atleast 600 dollars on enhancements and suddenly they get rid of it.
Post #: 19
4/8/2015 21:43:51   
Camoflague MerC
Member

Well if the developers want their game to die and lose their jobs by ignoring the community that's up to them, why would i or anyone else ever want to play a (still) pay to win game that has stagnant and boring gameplay and huge amounts of grind necessary to be competitive at all when there's Dota 2, Team fortress 2 and CS:GO just to name a few of the 100% community controlled games which are free to play (-CS) and extremely fun. These games also happen to be the most popular games in the world, Dota 2 and CS:GO e-sports wise as well. If you don't listen to your community your game will die, people don't like arrogant developers who refuse to listen to anyone else, people aren't gonna bother wasting their time. All you have to do is look at a game like Tribes Ascend, huge amounts of hype when it was being developed and millions of people played it in beta, but the admins refused to listen to the community, that game has been dead for 3 years. I would go as far as to say this game is already dead, unless a drastic change where to occur soon, the games player base at its peak was minuscule, in 6 years it has dropped by 300%, go figure. Every year or so when I've got nothing better to do i comeback to this game and have a quick look to see if the developers have started listening to the community and make the changes that they have been crying out for to make this game fun and enjoyable again, i have been disappointed every time, but i don't care when I've got Dota, CS and TF2 to play.

INB4 ban lmao.

Still curious to see what people think of my ideas.

@Mother1

Not quite sure what your saying (Strike would have a rank system?)
Epic  Post #: 20
4/8/2015 21:55:25   
Mother1
Member

@ Camoflauge Merc

The staff has been listening to the community seeing as a lot of the ideas they put into the game has come from the players.

1) Passive to active change: Was suggested by players since Gamma IIRC

2) Adding costs to cores: This was also suggested by the players

3) Adding a mute Button: Suggested by players

4) That hardcore mission chain with the 200, 400, and 600 win requirements was made because players complained that they didn't have any hardcore missions so the staff and the writers made them happen.

My point being is that even though it may not look like it the staff ever since omega started has been taking ideas from the forums, twitter Etc and putting them into the game one by one.

As for the ranks thing

Ranks are small power ups that was put into play for two reasons

1) To replace enhancements
2) Give bored capped level players something to do (AKA another player suggestion in a sense)

There are 6 things you can power up with ranks. Primary damage, robot damage, aux damage, sidearm damage, Defense and resistance.

Now with the change I mentioned strike itself would only do primary Damage (varies from what level you are at) Plus primary rank damage (if you have them applied to your character) and that would make up the damage you get when using strike and strike alone. Other moves like Mark of blood, Malfuction Etc would get the bonus damage strength gives however.
Epic  Post #: 21
4/8/2015 23:42:01   
Alphaeus
Member
 

 @camo

Yeah, I realized that note about the debuffs after I went to make dinner. A 12% increase would be more reasonable. Still, I think the shields should be lessened by some percentage(my maxxed shield uses less mana than my lvl 3 grenade), but you are correct in your evaluation of strategy.

@Mother1

Having a reorganization of the basic strike would have benefits. One note that I have on that is, as a jugg, I love multi's. I have Dage's multi sidearm, and the dark bioborg that can do multi as well. I would love to see the option to have some sort of multi strike that split your damage. This goes along with an idea that I have been toying with for awhile: 0 mana skills. These would not have the immense benefits as mana consuming skills, but would instead offer exchanges, such as occurs with Static Charge for the CH. Some of these would reflect core skills already in the game, like the concussion shot for your aux, or energy shot for the sidearm, etc. Another form of this idea is a single set of skills devoted to be used specifially for sidearm and aux. All skills that exist now are aimed at either the primary, or no wep whatsoever. Imagine if, for example, the CH's massacre involved your aux or sidearm (like a gatlin gun effect) instead of the primary, like happens in BH. Or if the Surgical Strike of the BM worked with the aux or sidearm instead of just shooting from the sky like with TM. There would have to be a slight reorganization of the skills actual effects, but not much. I think alot of people agree that this game needs to have more class-specific skills. The set of skills that the CH, BM, and TacM consist largely of skills that were merely borrowed from the original classes. I think introducing skills for sidearms and auxillaries would help alleiviate this without having to significantly change the skills effects, and add an awesome game element.
Post #: 22
4/9/2015 0:08:54   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 First thing that should be done is improve fairness in matchmaking. IE removing legendary ranks so a level 38 actually has a chance against most level 40s.

Second thing is yes, unique class passives. I have been advocating this for quite a while now. Additionally, classes should have their own very unique playstyle or feel, so that no 2 classes feel at all similar in more than just a few ways. There is very little actual difference between classes now aside from their defining skill, their energy gain. And the dependence on energy should be removed entirely. They are literally just the new passives that shouldn't exist because of the necessity to invest in them.

My reviews on your passive suggestions (I am neglecting the balance part and focusing on the concept part):

BH Passive:
Seems fine. It could be extended further to be a lot more interesting, but ED is a simple game so a simple passive should suffice.

TM Passive:
Would be more interesting if the active portion was converted to a passive effect that influenced any attack as well, not just melee ones

Merc Passive:
A rage-oriented passive would synergize a lot better with merc's current kit

CH Passive:
CH is a class that is very good at just shutting you down entirely with a single EMP, while having a pretty solid base kit plagued only be hyperaggressive builds and ones that can "chase" your energy regeneration with an opposing build's energy steal. CH can also go quite hyperaggressive since it has move which does damage and gains energy back. In general, I would avoid making your passive shaped around just the hyperaggressive part.

BM Passive:
Doesn't really need a cleanse with all the good defensive and counterplay tools they have.

TLM Passive:
Empowered skills is always a good idea. However, the application of it is centered around being a bit more defensive with the damage reduction elements. It should also work on being applicable to hyperaggressive builds.

In general I would stay away from actives as part of a unique class ability.

Epic  Post #: 23
4/9/2015 21:39:20   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

legend ranks aren't being removed, devs have already stated this. Fair matching isn't a thing. 30 play 35. if ranks removed, then should be 35 play 40, and passives aren't being brought back as far as we know.
AQW Epic  Post #: 24
4/9/2015 23:03:57   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 I have seen and have won/lost matches with a 5 level difference before. It's very unfair but not beyond impossible, unlike legend ranks after they have progressed to a certain point.

And no it wouldn't need to be 35 vs. 40 because of the huge concentration of level 40 players compared to players of any other level.
Epic  Post #: 25
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