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RE: =ED= May 8th, 2015 - Patch Notes - 1.6.45 (Discussion)

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5/9/2015 9:44:35   
SouL Prisoner
Member

@Mother

Did he/she had/got any advantage?? I mean the underdog mod. Did that work help?? or is it still unimplemented?

@Ran

Hmmm... So i guess just to beat Titan(legendary mode) you HAVE to get to level 100... Hmmm :/ Other wise, no chance!

So no tricks huh??

< Message edited by SouL Prisoner -- 5/9/2015 9:47:29 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 26
5/9/2015 9:52:56   
Ranloth
Banned


 Ah, that's interesting - I thought Underdog Mode only applies for Legendary matches, so anyone facing Legendary players (which originally was the plan). It turns out the Mode is activated across all levels, so L10 vs. L14 means that the L10 player will get Underdog Tier 2 passive. And so on. Hence why the matchmaking is now slightly different, e.g. L40 players can face L36, but the L36 will get the Underdog to make up for it (slightly).

The same will eventually happen to 2v2, and Juggernaut which is quite nice. Mind you, there are still limits to the matchmaking range - 5 for 1v1 (1 level = 1 eLevel for reference), 5 for 2v2 now as well, and 4 for Legendary 2v2 (so 2 x L40 vs. L40 + L36 is as low as it'll get). It's one way of making the matchmaking faster, but without affecting balance greatly.

@above
Yeah, you'll need preferably Rank 100 to beat the Legendary Titan, unless you'll get really lucky. :p It's a battle designed for those with maxed out Ranks, whilst the rest of us will have to wait or stick to something easier. Sucks to be Rank 4... xD

< Message edited by Ranloth -- 5/9/2015 9:54:33 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 27
5/9/2015 10:11:25   
dfo99
Member
 

 the super titan remains with bludgeon (physical) and bezerker (energy) attacks, it now with more str and near infinite mana, it made him even more hard than chairman platinum without his bazooka core?
Post #: 28
5/9/2015 10:22:42   
Lord Machaar
Member

@Variation:

Stop believing that lie, you are not playing a game where personal experience matter that much, ED is rock-paper-scissor with a little of luck.
Alright back to your horrible math, if n equals defense give. By ranks and 3n defense given by a skill then, you first of all lose a turn using that skill + you lose energy + you cover up one stat. Thanks to your ranks, you didn't have to use it, but sadly a player with lower rank have to.

What you did is, and correct me if I'm wrong, used a buffed build, TM with high dex = tons of blocks and thanks to last update high sidearm damage, since technician works with dec, keep it a level one and use it when it's necessary, heal loop with battery back up, voila.
But here is the thing, why this build won't work at low ranks, because simply of the advantage given by ranks:
You intentionally jumped over the mathematical fact I've given you in the last post, having a fraction of a damage more, or a fraction of less damage taken, it does matter, having 50-60 more damage, less 50 damage taken, 20 more hp that's:
~ 20k more damage dealt.
~ 20k less damage taken.
~ 2k more hp given the fact you heal looped, 500 turns, healing once every 5 turns, that's 100 turns, 100*20 = 2000.
If this isn't an advantage for you, and "skills" still matter, then you are telling yourself a lie, a lie with the time, you started believing it.

These are mathematical facts, don't lie at the community, and especially at me, you are not the only who played the game for 5-6 years.
I'm not making an execuse here to not defeat him, I'm telling you facts. It's no wonder why you can't defeat him at rank 1? When you defeat him at rank 1, only then you will prove your point for me. Only then you will prove you defeated him with your experience and not with your ranks, sure you can use the last buffed build, because believe me, you couldn't be able to defeat him even at rank 100 without TM build, because it's the only build that give you a high defense with a high damage, otherwise titan will end up regaining more HP with blood lust than the damage you deal, this a problem that will face any low level player trying to defeat saeva lionhart. So if damage dealt is inferior to HP regained by titan, case closed.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 5/9/2015 10:40:26 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 29
5/9/2015 10:34:39   
Satafou
Member

Who said Variation used TM?
Post #: 30
5/9/2015 10:39:00   
Lord Machaar
Member

Who told you he didn't?

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 5/9/2015 10:41:22 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 31
5/9/2015 10:46:42   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 @Lord Machaar Why don't you simply challenge him to coach Rayman through the Titan fight? Rayman says he is rank 9 going on ten so there is your ranks out the window and Rayman has gotten Titan down to 8K so that demonstrates an understanding of the game that would be fundamental in this fight.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 32
5/9/2015 10:54:14   
Lord Machaar
Member

OWA:
I don't have access to a computer right now and can't play ED on my phone.
Anyways, next week I will, and I will give it a serious try.
But take this fact from me, at the end of the fight, it all goes down to:
Damage Dealt - HP regained by titan from bloodlust (health medic counts also)= if it is positive, then you are good to go, if it's negative, let me tell you something, you will never be able to defeat him, unless a class gets buffed.

Titan is now defeatable against TMs because:
The fact that you higher dex makes you hit two birds, have high defense with a sidearm that deals high damage which will certainly help in the equation I gave.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 5/9/2015 10:56:37 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 33
5/9/2015 11:03:01   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 @Lord Machaar you didn't respond to anything I said please try again. I have quoted the original message below just to make sure you've read it

quote:

@Lord Machaar Why don't you simply challenge him[Variation] to coach Rayman through the Titan fight? Rayman says he is rank 9 going on ten so there is your ranks out the window and Rayman has gotten Titan down to 8K so that demonstrates an understanding of the game that would be fundamental in this fight.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 34
5/9/2015 11:04:54   
Mother1
Member

@ lord Machaar

I tried titan with the same build I used on Saeva (AKA high dex build) and let me tell you it didn't work well for me. While making my defenses high did help me against some of his moves, his crits and massive damage even with cores destroyed me.

The best I got him down to was by 1000+ health until he destroyed me. Though I will keep trying after I finish this mission I have equipped.
Epic  Post #: 35
5/9/2015 11:23:11   
Lord Machaar
Member

Owa: I didn't understand your question, I thought were talking about challenging legendar titan.

Mother1: the build I gave is just a theory, I haven't tried it but I suggested it according to chat with my friends.
Did you use technician? The battle will take forever if you have a low rank because the fight will go like:
Technician - gun - heal? - battery back up. And repeat.
High dex is necessary but don't forget about tech, it is very important, otherwise once technician is off, and he uses an energy damage, with a crit, that's deadly.
MQ Epic  Post #: 36
5/9/2015 11:49:07   
King Bling
Member

like i said only tm can beat him, and tlm i think so, while ppl will claim bm is the best because it can get much mana, but mind you once parasite is used it drains - 2000 energy from boss bring ing his energy to 0, and once its 0 you cannot get energy any other way, so it means bm cant beat, as for merc I am sry its not possible, ch can have good chances too, and bh, again i dont think it is possible
Post #: 37
5/9/2015 12:15:10   
Satafou
Member

TM hasn't beaten titan yet lol.
Post #: 38
5/9/2015 12:18:36   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Bm can't. Got him down to 5khp with 0 mp, then I forgot about the fact that I can't get anymore mp xD. Perhaps I should have conserved my mana more
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 39
5/9/2015 12:27:04   
Lord Machaar
Member

Satafou
Variation is using TM so that's a strong indication he used TM to defeat legendary titan.
MQ Epic  Post #: 40
5/9/2015 12:34:23   
Satafou
Member

Too bad he didn't use TM then is it?
Post #: 41
5/9/2015 12:36:20   
Variation
Member
 

 @Lord Machaar: I didn't defeat Legendary Titan as a Tech Mage ;) and the build I used didn't revolve around damage dealt. Anyways, yes I have 50 extra defense from legendary ranks. Now if I were to receive 175 defense from a defense buff I've now got everything legendary ranks would've given me and more over the course of the buff. So if he managed to attack me 500 straight times with a defensive based attack then yes legend ranks would've saved me 25,000 damage. However, even if I had 175 extra defense for only 200 rounds of the fight and he used defensive based attacks I would've saved myself 35,000 damage.

To break even you'd only need approximately(rounded up) 143 rounds of defensive based attacks. In this case the shield would have given me 3.5 times more defense than the maximum legendary defense ranks would provide (that is with the condition my defense ranks wouldn't be active, because I know the ranks boosts certain shields).

In my victory fight I didn't use a dexterity based build either. I'm not too sure why you can't seem to grasp that defeating Legendary Titan isn't a rank issue. It's more of an excuse as to why one may not think hard enough to beat Legendary Titan. Time and time again over the years it has been shown skill plays a much better role versus bosses rather than pure advantages. Don't take that out of context by the way. No a level 1 can't defeat Legendary Titan.

EDIT: @Lord Machaar: Yeah, but the +50 resistance over the duration of the entire fight would be easily compensated for ;). There is an obvious reason as to why I put huge emphasis on defense legend ranks.

< Message edited by Variation -- 5/9/2015 14:31:32 >
Post #: 42
5/9/2015 13:01:04   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 I've been having the same results as Mother. A Dex based TM even at rank 100 isn't a winner on Titan. You just get into a downward spiral every time your shield drops because you can't get rid of his powerful energy attacks with the assim drain.

Also by Lord Machaars logic Conqr is rocking a BM right now so clearly he used a BM to beat Legendary titan
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 43
5/9/2015 13:10:04   
Lord Machaar
Member

@variation
You just answered yourself, a level 1 can't defeat legendary titan, nor a rank 1. When you defeat legendary titan with a tank 1 character, only then you prove your point, and prove that ranks don't matter.

Once again you have bypassed my mathematical fact, when I said a fraction of less damage taken or dealt, it means for resistance and defense, and since titan have bith, then your skill shield argument is invalid.
Plus there is the extra damage, 20k more damage, that won't make the battle shorter, but possible.
20 more hp in health medic, that's 2k more health.

Bottim line is, even with your "skills" you can't defeat him without ranks.

OWA: I wish I had acess to dev server to prove point, sadly I don't have a rank 100 character to prove my point. It's about how much ranks you have.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 5/9/2015 13:12:08 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 44
5/9/2015 14:25:03   
Variation
Member
 

 @Lord Machaar: You do realize some players have been trying to use excuses to do nothing since the beginning of this game right? I have very little doubt that I couldn't beat Legendary Titan at rank 1, but here is some ED history for you.

When the original bosses were released JariTheMighty managed to beat Nightwraith as a non-varium Mercenary. Therefore destroying the necessity of varium being needed to beat those bosses. Xendran beat the original bosses on his level 26 alternate account. The level argument didn't pass there. I solo'd(with a level 1) Administrator 10 and Exile Leader at level 36 while many level 40s couldn't beat them with a partner. The level argument didn't pass there either. When they buffed Titan to level 40 and players were storming the forums with rants, I beat him on my first try. I beat Saeva Lionhart on a level 30 while many players were blaming their defeats to Saeva Lionhart due to a lack of legend ranks. The rank argument failed very hard in that case. Now here we are with some players riding on the rank argument again for Legendary Titan. This case is no different and like that quote ConQrR brought up
quote:

If you really want to do something, you'll find a way. If you don't, you'll find an excuse.
― Jim Rohn

That is what it comes down to in the long run and it's about time for people to see that because this situation is no different. So many players would rather disregard someone's skill and experience based on EpicDuel features such as Legendary Mode. The truth of the matter is the good players who were winning 90%+ of their matches before Legendary Mode and always did manage to destroy all bosses regardless of the at-the-time circumstances are still doing just that.

< Message edited by Variation -- 5/9/2015 14:49:47 >
Post #: 45
5/9/2015 15:12:40   
Lord Machaar
Member

What you are trying do here is to convince us that ranks give no advantage.
Well here is the thing, after you by pass 85 stats, dex for example, each stat you spend increases defense much less than it would.
The reason why ranks are different from level stats is, when you abuse a stat with normal level up stats you end up wasting a lot of stat points. It's not the case for legendary points, you will end up having +30 defense no matter how much dex stats you have spent. This is a clear indication of the huge impact ranks can do when fighting a boss. If a rank 1 level 40 player can defeat X boss, a level 35 can do it too why? Because simply both players will end up spending stat points on dex and tech, and soon both of them will reach 85 stat points, saying that level 35 was out of stat points, level 40 will continue adding up more stats, will it make a huge difference? It won' because then any stats above 85 donate less to said thing, defense for example.

What you are doing here is mixing up thing and running away from mathematical facts I have given you.
Beta ED and Gamma ED isn't like Omega ED, so please don't mix up things.
quote:


Here is a quote from me:
You won't feel the real value of the things you have, until you lose them.
- Lord Machaar

Once you lose the 100 ranks you have, you will feel the difference that they make, and I repeat again, ranks.
As you clearly read, I didn't give an execuse like others, oh he is too hard, I gave mathematical facts why he is too hard and why ranks make a difference.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 5/9/2015 15:15:26 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 46
5/9/2015 15:24:04   
Satafou
Member

Mathematical excuses*
Post #: 47
5/9/2015 15:25:56   
Variation
Member
 

 @Lord Machaar: Nope they give an advantage, and I never said they didn't. Maybe you should learn to stop taking everything out of context. Anyways I will work on beating him with a rank 1 now and I'm eager to see how this discussion changes once that happens. Like I said I highly doubt that I cannot beat Legendary Titan with a rank 1.
Post #: 48
5/9/2015 15:34:50   
Lord Machaar
Member

Satafou:
I'm using my phone and you will notice that my posts are full of typos.
Excuse me if my post was boring for you or out of your understanding capabilities to the point where you totally neglected the idea transmited by the post and started searching for typos.

@Variation
I will give it my best try to defeat legendary titan and convince myself that the game still requires some skills, and prove myself that I'm wrong.
Good luck.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 5/9/2015 15:37:49 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 49
5/9/2015 15:42:30   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 I still think underdog is a tad bit too weak. I'm level 36 against up to level 40s at rank 9, and all I get are +2 to all stats. Compared to the 4 level difference, that only makes a difference of 8 stat points and 4 skill points, not to mention legendary ranks too. I understand you're not supposed to be able to be completely on par with higher level opponents, but the underdog buff is near nothing.
Epic  Post #: 50
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