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Massacre Need To Be Overlooked

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5/11/2015 12:14:33   
shadow.bane
Member

Massacre as ultimate skill for bounty hunters and cyber hunters is not fair compared to super charge and surgical strike cause the following :

Super charge : deals energy damage, improves with technology, get extra 0.38 points on each level above level 20 and minus 0.38 points each level below level 20, IGNORES 20 % OF TARGET'S RESISTANCE AND GRANTS 30 % LIFE STEAL.

Surgical Strike : deals energy damage, improves with technology, get extra 0.4 points on each level above level 20 and minus 0.4 points each level below level 20, REDUCES ENEMY'S RAGE BY 50 % AND GRANTS 30 % LIFE STEAL.

Massacre : Deals 120 % more damage on max level , and improves with strength .

every skill we saw above has a special ability but the massacre got nothing, both super charge and surgical strike grants you 30 % life steal and massacre grants you nothing, that's the main reason why we don't see massacre build in pvp after the removal of passives, cause when passives were in game it used to grant bounty hunters life steal due to having bloodlust . now nothing special about it but that 120 % more damage it deals on max.

It needs to be looked into for real cause it's the weakest between ultimate skills .

P.S : Put ur attention on words with caps lock on!

Moved to ED Balance ~Battle Elf


< Message edited by Battle Elf -- 5/11/2015 15:20:50 >

_____________________________

Bane Hallow The Last Shadow Fiend.
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
5/11/2015 16:43:54   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Massacre does so much damage in 1 concentrated turn it's ridiculous. It's way more than supercharge or surgical strike. Maybe a slight buff to lower levels of massacre because getting enough energy for high level ones is very difficult with hunters, but aside from that I'd say it's fine.
Epic  Post #: 2
5/11/2015 17:10:21   
shadow.bane
Member

no dude , try it and see ... make build with each class that contain (bh 100 str , tm and merc 100 tech) same number and tm and merc do ridiculously more damage then massacre by way much

based on personal experience .

_____________________________

Bane Hallow The Last Shadow Fiend.
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
5/11/2015 17:37:51   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

@exploding penguin Yes, because people BH uses massacre, right? Every BH has it just like how tactical merc has on about 4, so does bounty. Especially with the nerf, it's done. If they want to add a 20%HP back, and buff the damage, maybe I'd use it. It used to be lvl 1 50%, now it's like 33? It's so worthless for the mass energy w/ no incentive. Plus, strength builds are nerfed and massacre improves with what? Right, strength. BH would use it because 1)smoke 2) bloodlust 3) Strength 4) Could use it (but now parasite screws it up) So... Smoke is nerfed since delta and is shielded more, blood lust isn't passive, strength is lower than it was at lvl 36 at base 5foc atleast (was 46 min at 36, now min is 44) and energy is sapped like no tomorrow. Who can have smoke on 5(210 energy) Bloodlust on 7(200) And massacre on 7(500) without wasting points on energy that will be taken away and more points because...well... energy is taken away. Massacre on low level is useless penguin, that's why no one with a high win % ever uses it. Heck, cheap shot on 10 (190 energy) does more than massacre on 1(320ish energy) because everyone has insane def/res now and shields and steals energy. Ignores 0 defense, and gives back 0 hp and steals 0 rage.

< Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 5/11/2015 17:41:46 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
5/11/2015 17:58:31   
Mother1
Member

@ Lord Ginger

I do run into some BH and CH who use massacre builds though they are the high energy glass cannon builds from what I saw.
Epic  Post #: 5
5/11/2015 18:07:04   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

Exactly @mother1. and I smear them.
AQW Epic  Post #: 6
5/11/2015 18:21:53   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 @Mother: Glass Cannon is merely ch only though.

@OP: Given the fact that STR in general was nerfed, this skill has also taken an indirect nerf. What I suggest to fix this indirect nerf is to simply buff the skill by increasing the damage by +30 per Skill Point and/or offering an HP Regain with 20 % of Def-Res Ignored

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 5/11/2015 18:22:28 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 7
5/11/2015 18:37:39   
Mother1
Member

@ TBK

I do see BH massacre builds in game as well not just CH. While I can counter Massacre sometimes I can't always do it seeing as some of them have cores to counter my counter.
Epic  Post #: 8
5/11/2015 18:48:11   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 I'll have to take your word for it. I kinda don't pvp anymore. What I will say is that I do believe that this particular skill should be buffed to have some "effect" like all of the other Ultimates. Not too much of an effect though guys. Remember, the main problem with classes now isn't actually the class, it's builds. There aren't enough Original Builds out there and that's because most of the individuals who spent the time and money to create these original builds like the CH massacre (UltraThor) simply don't PVP anymore. Now there is an entire database of individuals who never created something new and don't try because of 2 main reasons:

1) It's too hard

2) It costs too much

Now you can't teach an inexperienced player. You just grow as a player. That's all there is to it. However what the devs can do is lower the retraining cost to at least 100 credits if they can't make it free. You want some new things in this game, you want a more fun PVP environment, you want to see skills that have never been used efficiently before in a different sequence? Lower the cost of retraining.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 9
5/11/2015 18:52:51   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

@Ghost God, thanks for literally merging my statements into "your own idea" You also made my sword overused one "your idea" by adding your own convenient stat points. You make the greatest ideas only because you maybe take them from someone else, and just because you say it, makes you a genius. I said does less dmg, cheap shot does more cuz ignore, and if hp maybe I'd use it, and now you make up an idea where it ignores(cheap shot) does more dmg(like I said mass did too little) and regain hp(like I said I wouldn't use unless it did). UNBELIEVABLE
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
5/11/2015 20:11:48   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Dude in the balance suggestion my understanding was that you read someone's suggestion, make sure you understand their suggestion by typing a detailed report/paraphrase, then eventually get engaged into a thread where you guys discuss what would be the best route for the topic on hand (in this case Massacre). I read your suggestion and I just typed a detailed report/paraphrase based on what you said to make sure that I have the right understanding of this thread. Thats all I did. I didn't mean to step on any toes and I really do apologize if I did.

And just so this is clear to anyone who sees this: Guys I'm not a genius. I'm not trying to become a dev. I dont make the "greatest ideas". All I do is take what the majority of the community feels, create threads/tweets/status', ask those players to support me and I ask the devs to pay attention. I notice that alot of players, I dont mean you, have wonderful ideas yet they have trouble wording it clearly or are very determined that no one cares about their idea. All I'm trying to do is help get the same goal that we all want, seeing the game get better.

I'm seriously sorry if I offended you in that previous message man. I try not to be offensive to anyone
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 11
5/11/2015 20:43:08   
Guppy
Member

Massacre already does an absurd amount of damage on its own let alone compared to Super Charge and Surgical Strike, life steal added onto the 120% damage would make it a bit overpowered seeing as it can do so much damage, the health gained from it could easily unfairly win you the match,
Post #: 12
5/11/2015 21:59:17   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

@Ghost God My bad, didn't realize that. O_O

@Guppy, no one can ever get to use it because of energy cost, and no one chooses to use it at all if they're a wise person. So 120% costs 590 energy, and no one can get that far without being taken out.
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
5/12/2015 0:36:52   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 @guppy take into account the fact that their ultimate is the only ultimate that increases with a stat that has just received a Nerf. If anything, allowing this skill to have two side effects wouldn't be a bad thing
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 14
5/12/2015 1:21:45   
Guppy
Member

Maybe a different addition to the skill would allow for a well balanced change, but a life steal addition may cause more balance issues than there already are due to it being so high in damage compared to the other two skills that it's being compared to.

< Message edited by Guppy -- 5/12/2015 1:23:47 >
Post #: 15
5/12/2015 5:11:16   
VanitySixx
Member

Come on, let's be honest here. I'm a bounty hunter and there is not one semi-successful build I can find using massacre. Meaning, the highest win % I can get with it is maybe 50-55%, and I got the wins without even using massacre because of the energy cost, and used Cheap Shot instead.

Strength keeps getting nerfed and its effecting massacre a lot now. I honestly do believe that max cheap shot is a better skill than max massacre. Not necessarily better in damage, but I currently use it two to three times in battles along with poison and I'm owning.

Massacre is a dead skill.
AQW Epic  Post #: 16
5/12/2015 7:25:08   
shadow.bane
Member

i think that they should give it a 20 % life steal OR 20 % defense/resistance ignore so it be a bit equal



_____________________________

Bane Hallow The Last Shadow Fiend.
AQW Epic  Post #: 17
5/12/2015 20:04:20   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 personal win % should NEVER be used to justify anything on the forums unless we can accumulate a large handful of people who all experience great success or failure with the same build. It is heavily based on the player and the build comprises a less-than-half fraction of win rates these days.

BHs cannot run massacre because their energy recovery is trash. CHs do better with the skill. As I said, they should buff earlier ranks of massacre so that you don't have to max it out for it to be useful.
Epic  Post #: 18
5/13/2015 9:02:00   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

@penguin BH massacre has a low win %, so stop your crap. They should re-normal mass w/ +50%(1.5dmg) on 1 and +150%(2.5dmg) on 10 because no bloodlust. Gotta use energy doing stupid mark
AQW Epic  Post #: 19
5/13/2015 11:19:36   
shadow.bane
Member

well the only solution is to give it defenses ignore or life steal ! i think 30 % life steal or 20 - 25 % defenses ignore should be fine .

or make it from 120 % more damage to 150 % more damage .

_____________________________

Bane Hallow The Last Shadow Fiend.
AQW Epic  Post #: 20
5/13/2015 13:33:39   
Satafou
Member

Massacre has been nerfed a lot over the years. A level 1 massacre use to be 86% where as it's 39% now. Max massacre use to be 140%. A level 4 massacre back in gamma was only 2% less than a level 8 massacre today.

< Message edited by Satafou -- 5/13/2015 13:36:10 >
Post #: 21
5/13/2015 20:33:30   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 I highly recommend buffing EMP Grenades. Keep it scaling with support but definitely buff it. Massacre seems to work fine for CHs because of their energy regain.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 22
5/13/2015 20:49:51   
Mother1
Member

@ TBK

I think you meant static grenade. EMP only drains energy not recover it and for CH it scales with tech not support. Also Static grenade was buffed from 50% energy return to 65%
Epic  Post #: 23
5/13/2015 21:25:26   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

Thing is, finishing moves are't even finishing moves anymore. Massacre used to be the 4 turn finisher if on high. For CH, it was useful on 1 for a decent 30+ famage. Energy is dumb because now everyone can loop because the actives(battery, static smash/grenade) static charge was already there, and wasn't OP. Question: Why do they have to nerf every build that people make up? That's not even fair. It' the main reason ultimate skills are high, energy is easily takeable. At lvl 36, there was good stat pts, but now the +16 stats and +4 skill tree points make more builds viable and energy drain easier

< Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 5/13/2015 21:27:38 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 24
5/14/2015 14:22:34   
The berserker killer
Member

 
quote:

Why do they have to nerf every build that people make up? That's not even fair.


That's exactly why I don't pvp as much. It's like we're getting punished for making up builds and evolving the game.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 25
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