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RE: May 22th, 2015 - Patch Notes - 1.6.46 (Balance)

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5/22/2015 20:12:38   
Lord Machaar
Member

@shadow.bane:

Yeah, I've been through that also, being a rank 11 and facing many rank 7 - 8 - 9 players, +1 at all stats isn't that big but still, it isn't fair in such cases.
I've already talked to ranloth about it, and at first I thought it is a bug, because I thought the underdog mode followed the following forumla (Player A has X ranks, player B has Y ranks, X-Y if it is superior than 10, then the underdog boost is given), but then he explained to me that the following system doesn't allow this. It isn't a perfect method due to engine limitations, however it is better than the old one, because I believe there are 2 ways to base the underdog mode on:
- Follow the old system and the forumla I gave, however consider that the 20 ranks after rank 80 give advantage.
- Follow this system which consisted of ranges, e.g: rank 1 - 10 : range 1, rank 51 - 60, range 5, rank 11 - 20: range 2 and so on, so the underdog mode is based on your range not your rank, the extreme case is a player rank X9 vs (X+1)1, for example 49 and 51.

This engine limiation is observable at the following ranks X1 To X5 (example 41 , 52 , 63 ...) in this case the boosts given aren't that legit, once you surpass the X5 rank, you are good.

I hope that rabblefroth finds a way to tackle this engine limitation, but if he cannot, atleast the current system is better than the old one that counted the 20 ranks after rank 80.
MQ Epic  Post #: 26
5/22/2015 21:44:24   
King Bling
Member

Not really, dont you understand brothers, hes rank 9 and your 10, i.e he gets underdog 1, they need it, after all you know ranks are OP, that 1 rank can give you +3 or +4 anything, absolutely anything, giving you edge over that player, so according to me, he deserves it. So it is perfectly fine according to me.
Post #: 27
5/23/2015 0:32:08   
Ranloth
Banned


 Well, Mercs only had two Club skills prior to the update - Static Smash and Maul. This makes it three, just like other Classes - although, TMs had four until Assimilation was changed. TLMs are the only ones with two, but eventually they will get a third skill that requires a Club.

And yes, I thought Zerker and Double Strike will be good places to put the requirements on, for Strength builds. Despite Str and Guns change, they are still a viable build so you can keep using your Club like before, or if you fancy a build change, you may enjoy Swords more. With the Club requirement, we could also lower EP cost of Double Strike, which makes it a bit more appealing compared to Bludgeon - but Zerker remained the same, since it's powerful enough (unless it ends up being UP, then we may consider a small buff).


Also Machaar, Mecha explained how it works. It worked this way before the update, but it wasn't noticeable because the boost was applied every two eLvls. For every 10 Ranks, so at R10, 20, 30, etc., you gain one eLvl. Yes, Rank 9 and Rank 10 is a small difference, but the system assumes eLvl 40 and 41 with that example. Would be nice if it worked on gap difference, but it would only make Legendary matchmaking a bit more difficult to work around with. And engine limitation to a degree.
AQ Epic  Post #: 28
5/23/2015 0:39:30   
shadow.bane
Member

@ranloth but this 1 rank difference will give my enemy a high advantage over me such as 1 to str (more damage) 1 to dex (more damage and blocks) 1 tech (More damage and deflections) 1 supp (More damage and criticals) just cause i have 4/3/2 extra points on some areas ? i guess it is not fair and need a little rework .
AQW Epic  Post #: 29
5/23/2015 0:56:43   
Ranloth
Banned


 Yeah, and we can't work around that - I just explained it in the post above, why we can't. +1 to all stats will hardly give you 0.2% to blocks and deflections, around 0.15% to Crits, just under 1% bonus to First Strike, and around +2 damage on skills and weapons.

It's not a balance issue, but just how the game is coded. Some things can't be worked around, simple as.
AQ Epic  Post #: 30
5/23/2015 23:29:04   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Still waiting for a meta where focus builds are average or subpar, and support builds remain supreme. It's been a while since that's happened. Pretty much every build other than support builds have had their power spike in the meta, but I don't think support's really seen a notably huge uprising in like 2-3 years.
Epic  Post #: 31
5/24/2015 7:40:47   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 I think Atom Smash should have its weapon requirement removed, now that every other energy drain skill no longer has a weapon requirement.
Post #: 32
5/24/2015 7:55:29   
Rayman
Banned


 I dont think so, then TLMs only move that requieres a wep would be double strike.
AQW Epic  Post #: 33
5/24/2015 8:29:08   
RageSoul
Member

The Club-only requirement to Double Strike was a bad move IMO . It rendered TLM to deal less damage without compensation while Mercs will now be forced to use Swords simply because Berzerker is still a usable move and that Swords provide more much needed stats , but the flipside would be Maul can't be used .

quote:

Still waiting for a meta where focus builds are average or subpar, and support builds remain supreme. It's been a while since that's happened. Pretty much every build other than support builds have had their power spike in the meta, but I don't think support's really seen a notably huge uprising in like 2-3 years.

TLM plus enough points invested to Energy would have been dominating right now but what prevented them to do so were getting EMP smacked and Energy Parasited . SUPP alone needs specific item setups + high Critical Strike frequency to be equally effective to others .
AQW Epic  Post #: 34
5/24/2015 8:34:14   
Ranloth
Banned


 Uh, Berzerker also has a Club requirement - so Strength builds will resort to using Clubs, due to synergy with Maul. Also, Double Strike did get -10 EP reduction - it was that or damage boost which would be very minor too.
AQ Epic  Post #: 35
5/24/2015 8:54:41   
RageSoul
Member

^Hmmm due to my huge inactivity rate ( even in the OPs ) , i forgot to realize that , but it seems the direction of the changes were to apply the intended purpose of Swords : more power in exchange for less options , yes?

< Message edited by RageSoul -- 5/24/2015 8:55:40 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 36
5/24/2015 9:33:16   
Ranloth
Banned


 Yep. Mercs effectively lost Strength build if they go with Swords, and TMs lost Caster builds if they go with Swords. It's a fair trade-off. I am aware Strength has been nerfed, so there may not be many people using Strength builds with Clubs, but when we make more changes in the future, they may become more viable without going back to the old ways - balanced variety? (is that even a thing?)
TLMs are trickier due to their skill-tree, but it was either Atom staying with Clubs, or Frenzy going back to Clubs - and the latter would possibly cause more harm than good.
AQ Epic  Post #: 37
5/24/2015 9:59:06   
Uchiha Sarada
Banned
It Looks Like TLMs are having a good time with energy control because of frenzy don't you think that frenzy needs to be revised?

TLMs are doing alright with Support, Focus and Surgical builds, but frenzy ignore % should be lowered or the energy they get back from it because It helps them alot and it already was helping them 2much before the frenzy buff but nobody used it because it had a wep requirement.

Frenzy should stay without a weapon requirement but the energy it gives back shouldn't be that high.


_____________________________

Dattebayo
AQW Epic  Post #: 38
5/24/2015 10:01:34   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 I think frenzy is fine. It's easily countered with a shield or strength Nerf (well strength has already been nerfed), or even a bot.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 39
5/24/2015 10:03:46   
Ranloth
Banned


 We can boil Frenzy down to two things: is it damage being an issue, or HP/EP return? It's unlikely it will get changed, though - unless it was changing how it works, as opposed to right out nerfing) nerf-buffs are another story, since these often balance each other out, etc).

(issue being, is it too low or too high; buffs can be done, too - not just nerfs)

< Message edited by Ranloth -- 5/24/2015 10:05:36 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 40
5/24/2015 10:12:08   
Uchiha Sarada
Banned
Frenzy was actually made to regain HP and the HP You get from it is not that High so they should make it so the hp you get from it is higher because the nerf to str nerfed Frenzy a bit too, they can make the HP Gain Higher but Low the energy gain to make up for it.
And if its possible to make the Def Ignore 15% it would be great to help Support TLMs regain more HP and help the class and different builds a little bit more Dattebayo.
AQW Epic  Post #: 41
5/24/2015 10:13:52   
Darkwing
Member

The best move by far was to remove weapon requirement from assimilate. The sword locked 4 skills, all good ones. TM with a sword was just a no no for me.


Also, TLM only had 1 skill locked with a sword, no wonder I would never see a TLM with club.



And I think frenzy is fine as it is. The small nerf is got from strength nerf was ok. It's like the only zero energy cost skill that ignore defense, gives you hp and energy back. No need to make it too good.













< Message edited by Darkwing -- 5/24/2015 10:16:46 >
Post #: 42
5/24/2015 18:03:10   
Alkimos
Banned


 Mercenary is finally viable again & is where it should be!!! No complaints about Double Strike and Berserk having club requirements now, it is balanced.
Epic  Post #: 43
5/24/2015 20:28:19   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Can higher ranks get at least 20 extra creds and more XP for beating someone in underdog mode? That seems fair at least. The reward system for beating these "harder opponents" is still the same as when they were easily farmable.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 44
5/25/2015 8:18:38   
Ranloth
Banned


 Should a Lvl 30 player get more Exp/Credits for beating Lvl 25 - before the Underdog Mode? Yes. With the Underdog Mode? Yes, since the advantage is smaller - but so are the rewards. Replace Level xx with Ranks, and the answer remains the same - you're not getting more Exp/Credits for beating someone who's weaker than you. No, it's not fair in any way to reward you more for beating someone weaker than yourself.

< Message edited by Ranloth -- 5/25/2015 8:19:00 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 45
5/25/2015 8:25:40   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 The entire mode isn't fair in its current state. Would you be able to explore the possibility of selling the core in vendbot as a passive armor core for all who choose to buy it?

Edit: That seems like a viable option.

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 5/25/2015 8:27:21 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 46
5/25/2015 8:32:53   
Ranloth
Banned


 No, we won't be selling the Underdog Core either. You have <stat> boost ones, and Eternal Enhance already - Underdog is built into the PvP engine directly instead. The whole point of Underdog was to nerf Rank advantage, and since it did the job, there is no issue with it - Ranks still give an advantage too, just like they are meant to; just lesser.
AQ Epic  Post #: 47
5/25/2015 11:51:55   
Rayman
Banned


 I think Sarada is right. Frenzy is supposed to regain HP, because it was designed to do so, but it regains more energy than HP, I might be wrong but I think that Frenzy needs a Buff for HP and if its 2much then nerf the energy regain of frenzy and make it regain less energy than HP.
AQW Epic  Post #: 48
5/25/2015 13:05:31   
Luna_moonraider
Member

I dont get why they are reducing the exp and credits gain when u lose a battle. The amounts u were getting last time was ok. This nerf really puzzles me.

hmm support build nerf expected and seen. Support build has been a very useful build in 2v2 ins well beta. i been using it since now cause of its reliable but.. the down side of support builds is they cant npc which is bad considering 100 npc gives u 3700 creds and 1200 exp if u bother doing all 100 npcs.

hmm well 2v2 pairing need some rework too. well it was hell lvl up from 36-40 u click 2v2 and all u see are legends and u r the only non legend. but i think the underdog system might help for 2v2 if and when they make it. i dont do 1v1 much so idk how the underdog mode works atm so i cant really say if it would help balance 2v2.

really another mage buff hmm i guess rabblefroth REALLY likes mages. haha jk. well it is nice to see most energy control skill does not require class weps(excluding atom smash which does not need to be changed in anyway cause tlm has sufficient energy control imho). str mages has become viable i guess.

hmm as for the club req on zerk and DS. well i feel that zerk energy should be reduced also since well DS had that. but yeah kind of a nerf on str merc i guess.



_____________________________
AQW Epic  Post #: 49
5/25/2015 13:39:56   
Dragonnightwolf
How We Roll Winner
Apr/Jun/Aug15


 I entirely agree with those who have stated that reducing the Experience and credits when you lose was lessened. The level it was already at was still a run to try and earn more to buy equipment. So what is the explanation for that? If it were "You lose therefore you only get a portion of creds as opposed to those who win" okay, I can kinda see that happening. But the percentage was already at a certain rate wasn't it?

I'm a tech mage. I'll have to try and see if this "buff" really helps us out or not. Gonna have to change stats anyhow.

I have one other question involving the patch note. You said the classes are a little more balanced now (This is @Ranloth) Do you have any ideas if this includes a versus Npc? or is this just based off PvP?
AQW Epic  Post #: 50
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