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Pinpointing the source of enjoyment.

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6/22/2015 1:09:19   
Remorse
Member

I think the best way to find out what is probably the most important issue in ED is to take a step back and think about where does the source of enjoyment come from?

Because I think if they answer this question correctly what you will find are underlying things that lower ED's enjoyment level, and once changed things like balance etc. should also fall into place with it.


My conclusion to this question is that the source of enjoyment comes from decision making,

These decisions include, what or what not to include in your build, what skill to use when in battle, what steps you can take in order to counter your prediction of your opponents decisions in battle.


I think this is probably the main thing that has lowered EDs enjoyment now since it's arguably better early days in beta/gamma.

The reason being is that decision making has become too effortless in a lot of scenarios in battles,
For example, at least one stage in most battles you will know exactly what your opponent will do and that is use the 0 cost energy manipulation skill, and if they don't they should have as the 0 cost means you have to take advantage of it where possible when it's not on cool down.

This leans into predictive and hard to counter game play because if their is no downside to a move how can you prevent it


No this leads into my solution,

They need to give all these 0 costing skills a cost, weather it be HP, stats, energy, or a whole new costing system such as Stamina Points

The result will be gameplay which revolves around thinking far in advance and predicting your opponents moves, while also taking necessary actions to counter them.





< Message edited by Remorse -- 6/22/2015 1:20:48 >
Epic  Post #: 1
6/22/2015 1:36:41   
Bender Rodriguez
Member

In its current form, the game is aimed to satisfy a young audience. As a result, game development has become limited and restrained. For as long as Epicduel is apart of Artix Entertainment, I highly doubt there will come a time in this game where gameplay revolves around strategy or thinking. Regarding builds, it's discouraging to dedicate time, effort, and credits experimenting when the possibility exists that someone else can so easily come along and copy your build with very little sacrifice. Items with unique stats limited the extent to which people could copy your build and encouraged players to make purchases. In its current state, there is little incentive to spend real money or even credits for that matter when all you're really paying for is art. In previous stages where items had unique stats, purchasing items opened a doorway to exploring new possibilities. This is where my enjoyment came from.
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
6/22/2015 2:05:54   
Remorse
Member

^ Great points,

I think their was a huge missed opportunity with keeping once varium items, with the same varium only cost.

Removing the advantage was great but the better looks should of came at a price similar to skins in other games.

As for lowering the game about strategy on purpose, perhaps this is the case but I would like to think the lower player base suggests it was not the right path.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 6/22/2015 2:06:07 >
Epic  Post #: 3
6/22/2015 3:20:57   
SS
Member
 

 I agree with Bender Rodriguez, ED was much more fun to play when there existed items with fixed stats and levels, and with requirements. Builds depended on items, which encouraged a much greater variety of builds and stat abuse did not exist at all. Varium only items further increased the builds diversity, although I, as a non-varium player, didn't care about that so much (maybe because I was not a high level player at that time, I might have invested some $ to get the best items once I reached the top level). This major change from unique items to one set of "morphing" items of no level and no requirements reduced the game complexity so much, that now even a toddler can play it successfully (maybe that was the point? I don't know). Good for attracting children maybe (although I don't see them buying too much varium, unless they use their parents' credit cards hoping nobody will notice it), but boring for the older audience. Thus the greatly reduced number of players.

And by the way, what's the point of all those "new" and "exciting" items in the legendary shops? No cores (the only things that can make, even though just a tiny, but a difference between items), just the same unique (as in "the only and only in this game") items with a newer image? Is this a game for girls now, to convince them to dress mercenaries and bounty hunters instead of Barbie dolls? Ridiculous!
Post #: 4
6/22/2015 4:06:40   
Remorse
Member

^ Agreed,

Which I guess comes back to what I was saying, decision making.

Decisions not only in battles but also in item and build making has become to effortless.
Epic  Post #: 5
6/22/2015 4:13:21   
SS
Member
 

 You could say there's none any more. Just copy a build that is winning (that is extremely cheap) and follow the same 3-4 steps until the match ends. If you copied a good build - you will get more wins. That's it. That's why I hear people started botting in ED - there's no thinking involved any more, just a mechanical repetition of several steps, something that you can have a script do.
Post #: 6
6/22/2015 4:22:46   
Mother1
Member

What I miss about the game was the uniqueness of classes.

They just feel so much the same. I remember when I started this game classes IMO were actually classes because they all couldn't do the same things. Each class had their strengths and weaknesses.

For example BH was the only class with life steal (before BM) due to blood lust, and TM (before CH and TLM) was the only energy class.

They could only do but so much but because of this their skills and moves were way more effective and that made the classes and game great.

However now every balance change is making the classes more and more similar.

The Passive to active change while it was a good thought was the biggest downfall to uniqueness within the classes.

It brought the energy crisis due to the cost to core update the weak prior which lead to the uniqueness of energy classes. Now every class has a way to get and drain energy which makes energy drains in a sense pointless.

Next off requirements are also being made similar. Originally energy drainers for example depending on class had a weapon requirement such as TM assimilation and Merc static smash. Sadly due to complaints from player saying "It is not fair that BM CH and BH don't need class weapons to use their drainers and TM and Merc do." Now we have static smash and Assimilation usable with swords.

In other words at the rate we are going there won't be anything unique or different about the classes. One of the few things I can think of that is still unique is poison but I have already seen suggestion asking for Poison to be given to the other three classes just because "It is only fair since three classes have them so why shouldn't the others."

We might as well make the old custom skill tree suggestion that was Vetoed come to life.
Epic  Post #: 7
6/22/2015 7:35:30   
InFlamed Fury
Member

Right now the only two ways that i have been having fun in the game is:

a) Using a super charge build on my BM

or

b) playing on alternate characters and just playing around with different classes and builds for those classes.
AQW Epic  Post #: 8
6/22/2015 18:10:57   
Stonehawk
Member

What I miss about the game:
1- The uniqueness of classes, which include passives and brings diversity to the battles.
2- The uniqueness of weapons, which implies in unique combinations of weapons in order to make unique builds. Brings diversity to the battles.

Both are impossible to come back. The main reasons are:
1- Bringing back passives with all other changes that came would mess the game even more.
2- Bringing back weapons with its own stats is impossible, since everyone has lots of weapons and people would complain that they wanted other stats in their current weapons.

I think diversity is dead in the battles. My suggestion would be decreasing the effects of all energy controlling skills and bringing passives back in a lower proportion than it was before, but how to put them back in the skill-tree? It seems impossible too. I feel hopeless. Some changes seems just impossible, unless they give back all our credits and varium spent so we can choose the UNIQUE STATS weapons to buy, lol. (it's a joke, I know it would never happen)


AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
6/22/2015 18:55:08   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

What I miss about the game:
1- The uniqueness of classes, which include passives and brings diversity to the battles.
2- The uniqueness of weapons, which implies in unique combinations of weapons in order to make unique builds. Brings diversity to the battles.


I believe this contributes to a solid 90% if not more of the game's decline over the past few years.
Maybe if the staff wasn't so obstinate concerning passives and they were brought back ED might actually have a chance of being revived back to its previous glorious days.
Epic  Post #: 10
6/22/2015 22:30:52   
Illuminist
Member
 

 They would have to redo all the stupid energy stealing BS like static greande n stuff, besides, they're too lazy to bring passives back because they don't want a large player base, that's why they haven't brought them back(besides enhancements)
Post #: 11
6/22/2015 22:52:18   
Bender Rodriguez
Member

Or they could just make skills like Mark of Blood, Mineral Armor, Plasma Armor and Hybrid Armor cost 0 energy while keeping them as active skills.
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
6/22/2015 22:54:40   
Illuminist
Member
 

 That would make Cyber Hunter OP. Shadow arts, Plasma armor, or BH with shadow arts and MOB. Should just return to passive
@mother1 TYPO, you shoulda known what I meant

< Message edited by Illuminist -- 6/22/2015 22:59:05 >
Post #: 13
6/22/2015 22:57:05   
Mother1
Member

@ Illuminist

Until the staff changes their minds about passives coming back one of that will ever happen.

Also CH has Plasma armor not Mineral armor. it is TLM that has Mineral armor.
Epic  Post #: 14
6/22/2015 23:00:27   
Illuminist
Member
 

 Typo, come on @mother1
And what do you mean by
quote:

@ Illuminist

Until the staff changes their minds about passives coming back one of that will ever happen.

Did you mean to direct that to Bender or talking about passives...

< Message edited by Illuminist -- 6/22/2015 23:01:10 >
Post #: 15
7/2/2015 14:53:23   
SS
Member
 

 I see the staff are trying to fight botters... not by making it impossible to bot by making the gameplay diverse and complicated, but by playing cops. Pathetic, really... this game is ruined.
Post #: 16
7/2/2015 17:43:53   
RaXZerGamingZ
Member

yeah but they wont listen to the complains that everybody wants passives back...
Post #: 17
7/2/2015 20:47:03   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 "Lets Nerf everything and ruin PVP to deter botters instead of just focusing on botters themselves. We're genius!!!"
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 18
7/4/2015 15:38:56   
SS
Member
 

 No, no, you got it wrong, this is how they created the botters in the first place.
Post #: 19
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