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buff medical mastery and energy effiecience legendary ranks

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6/30/2015 20:41:27   
dfo99
Member
 

 the medical mastery gives +20 of hp on heal, a skill that can be used only after take 5 opoent attacks, then even if you keeping healing in loop this is equivalent to a +4 hp per turn (or a very weak version of the eternal protection which give +15) the problem is that this rank tier is equivalent to a effective level (eLvl) and clearly is not because it too underpowered. same applies for the energy efficience, have this ranks to use raise up the underdog buff. also those 10 ranks cost 150k of credits.

to be truth, i prefer a buff to all legendary ranks, but i don't believe that this suggest will be implemented due obvious reasons.

< Message edited by dfo99 -- 7/2/2015 13:15:57 >
Post #: 1
6/30/2015 21:09:53   
Illuminist
Member
 

 Right, it is inferior compared to +30 defense, however is treated the same
Post #: 2
6/30/2015 21:17:34   
Lord Machaar
Member

So how much you want it to give? +200 HP?
If something here must be fixed, it would be removing ranks or nerfing them or buffing legendary mode.
MQ Epic  Post #: 3
6/30/2015 22:15:13   
nowras
Member

It should be +40 Lord Machaar he is right it's so weak

and the energy one must be -20 energy not -10
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
6/30/2015 22:32:34   
dfo99
Member
 

 i prefer-15 for energy efficience if its reduce the cost of all skills instead only cores. for cores only, i suggest -30. for the medical, +60 or at least +40
Post #: 5
6/30/2015 23:39:47   
Illuminist
Member
 

 @Machaar, the heal is not even on par with any of the other legendary skills. I'd honestly upgraded primary before doing the +20 heal....
Post #: 6
6/30/2015 23:47:38   
Lord Machaar
Member

We are now talking about how to buff the underdog mode, because the game now is running out of players, which means in the near future, the game engine will be forced to match high rank players (60 - 80) with low level players (35 - 37). If we are going to buff medical mastery and energy efficiency, it will be an unnecessary buff, and as you can see, results have shown up when you nerfed legendary system, which was great for the game. If anything here must be fixed, I would say legendary ranks, and their removal.

@Illuminist:
Because that's what is meant for, legendary system secrewed up the game big time before the underdog mode, and it is still doing so, the addition of medical mastery, energy efficiency and NPC ones, were just a "gift", they weren't suppose to be implemented.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 6/30/2015 23:51:30 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 7
7/1/2015 0:07:44   
Illuminist
Member
 

 @Machaar, I never said legendary system didn't screw over the game, however if underdog is to be equal with each extra things of ranks, then the other slots should be equal to eachother.
Post #: 8
7/1/2015 0:43:02   
Lord Machaar
Member

If all slots should be equal to each other, let's nerf other OP slots, otherwise if we are going to buff some of them to make them equal, let's buff the underdog mode.
MQ Epic  Post #: 9
7/1/2015 0:43:16   
dfo99
Member
 

 in my opnion, high ranks players should be far more stronger (but not super op ofc) than a low lv or rank player, i never come here asking for leg ranks nerf when i was rank 1-30 (everybody can check my threads history) my win ratio is not completly ruined because i go 2v2 and npcs. everybody who have high ranks deserve it (unlike varium p2w old enhancements system) to get it you have to play. then is fair (and logic) higher ranks be stronger.
Post #: 10
7/1/2015 0:49:59   
Lord Machaar
Member

Just because everyone can play it and earn it, it doesn't mean it is fair, the reason is, if I started the game 2 years before you, I would have more ranks than you, and therefore any new player will be punished because he/she didn't start the game early. If your logic is used in all games, most games will stop accepting new players after its beta phase, why? because then it will be a matter of who started playing first, not who is smart...

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 7/1/2015 0:50:40 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 11
7/1/2015 1:06:51   
dfo99
Member
 

 the purpose of the game is win and enjoy it, in almost all pvp games based on level, you sometimes have to fight against high level players or then avoid them (in ed case going 2v2) the high level player have to be a challenge, if fight against high level or skilled players is a problem, then nobody would never start to play any fps game, because even the noobests old fps players can kill extremly easy a new player. you logic have not much sense at all.
Post #: 12
7/1/2015 1:32:05   
Lord Machaar
Member

In FPS games, new players don't directly face experienced players, there are special channels for new players, there are training mods and etc... New players still join FPS games even if they are full of experienced players, for the simple reason that these players will master the game within weeks if not days, as such games count a lot on skills not "what equipement you have".
ED is all about how much ranks you have, and no matter how much experienced you are, how much ranks you have will still influence your winning ratio, that's before even you master the game which might take you months if not years (not mastering it by skills but earning "ranks" and levels).

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 7/1/2015 1:35:22 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 13
7/1/2015 2:41:59   
dfo99
Member
 

 you also forget that in ed you can also fight against low level players than you, it means that as you can face stronger players than you, you also can fight against lower levels. also have some experience in the game matters, not much as a fps game, but still matters.
Post #: 14
7/1/2015 12:26:56   
Lord Machaar
Member

I played Clash of Clans, and there are leagues there, so yeah don't talk about somethings you didn't play.
My solution was clear, and already stated:
quote:

If all slots should be equal to each other, let's nerf other OP slots, otherwise if we are going to buff some of them to make them equal, let's buff the underdog mode.


As for other comments of yours, I took a screenshot and it will be forwarded to an AK, because I don't want to waste my time on off-topic things.
When you lose the argument, you no longer discuss the ideas, you start going off-topic and discussing individuals. Anyways, if you got a personal problem woth me, PM me, we could have a nice chat with going off-topic, and we will have the right to curse each other with no problems.
MQ Epic  Post #: 15
7/1/2015 12:40:14   
King Bling
Member

Supported, 150k credits for 10 slots, and investing 10 ranks into those 10 slots giving you only -10 and +20 is too low, making them -20 and +40 is somewhat ok.
Thank You.
Post #: 16
7/1/2015 12:48:14   
Illuminist
Member
 

 @Machaar, unless you want a guy who spent 2 weeks botting for level 40 to beat a rank 80 who's been playing for 6 years....? Underdog does not need a buff! I just want ranks to be as good as the other ranks. Basically...
EX. rank 1 & rank 11. Rank 11 has+30 def, rank 1 gets I underdog. Ok

EX 2. Rank 1 & rank 11. Rank 11 has +20 Heal, rank 1 gets I underdog. No. No one would ever do the +20 heal first, because its not worth it.

This post is also about buffing medical mastery, not buffing underdog. I do not care if they are correlated with eachother, that is not the topic onhand. You can just say no to the suggestion if you choose, and stop suggesting underdog buffs in a post not about underdog. yet, you keep bringing up underdog, which is pretty funny, not going to lie about that one.

quote:

If all slots should be equal to each other, let's nerf other OP slots, otherwise if we are going to buff some of them to make them equal, let's buff the underdog mode.

Since you get the same underdog buff for each legendary slot, why not buff the weaker slots...? Obviously if you get underdog 1 on 30 def, and underdog 1 on Medical Mastery, I would rather be the rank 60 versing the rank 80. Not only would I get +1's, I'd get a higher chance to go first, a small extra chance to crit, small chance to block, small chance to deflect.

HOWEVER, THIS POST IS ABOUT BUFFING MEDICAL MASTERY AND ENERGY EFFIENCY, WHICH I SUPPORT BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ON PAR WITH THE OTHER LEGENDARY SLOTS

< Message edited by Illuminist -- 7/1/2015 12:49:43 >
Post #: 17
7/1/2015 14:25:26   
Lord Machaar
Member

Just because rank 60 - 80 players are having troubles in-battle against players rank 30 - 40, that doesn't necessarily mean the ranking system should be buffed because medical mastery is not equal to other legendary slots. If medical mastery (10 ranks) is still superior than Underdog mode level 1, that's it, we are not here comparing legendary slots between each other, we are seeing if each legendary slot still has an advantage over underdog mode level 1, period.
Medical mastery gives 20 HP each time you heal, which means it will cover you for the next 4 turns after each heal. (5 damage less against you whether you were attacked by energy or physical attacks).
Underdog mode level 1 gives +1 strenght/dex/tech/supp, +1 dex/tech means you will have +2/3 defense/resistance, which means each turn you are attacked, underdog mode will help you receive 2/3 less damage.

Example: Rank 10 (using medical mastery) Vs Rank 1 (Underdog mode level 1)
Rank 1 player if for example was attacked 4 rounds in a row by the rank 10 player (P or E dmg), this player will receive 2/3 damage less each turn, in 4 turns, the rank 1 player will receive 8/12 damage less.
Rank 10 player if for example was attacked 4 rounds in a row by the rank 1 player (P or E dmg), this player will receive 5 damage less (5 HP), in 4 turns, the rank 10 player will receive 20 damage less, if the rank 10 player heals after these 4 rounds.

We are not here comparing legendary slots to other legendary slots, according to OP (original post), the problem here is between legendary slot (medical mastery) and underdog mode. When testers introduced underdog mode, they made sure that each legendary slot (10 ranks) is still better than legendary mode level 1. Which is the case here. We aren't going to go through each build and see how it works because then we will find that some legendary slots work great with some build and not others, if a buff is going to happen, it would be for 2 reasons:
- The legendary slot is not superior than UM level 1.
- The legendary slot doesn't work with any build in the game.
This is not the case here, medical mastery can be abused by build who can heal loop. And according to last calculations, medical master is still superior than UM level 1.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 7/1/2015 14:32:31 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 18
7/1/2015 15:13:18   
Illuminist
Member
 

 @Machaar, I compared 60 to 80, not 60-80 against 30-40. :)


But no, it's about buffing the legendary ranks, stop comparing this to underdog mode, this is not what we're talking about. And I'd rather be rank 60 than 80 because the underdog is better if rank 60 than 80.
quote:

We are not here comparing legendary slots to other legendary slots, according to OP (original post), the problem here is between legendary slot (medical mastery) and underdog mode.

quote:

same applies for the energy efficience, have it ranks to use it raise up the underdog buff
Basically, he's stating that it's not good enough, not necessarily saying comparing to underdog, just saying that the +'s are not equal to each section of legendary slots

You know machaar, adding technology underdog not only decreases damage, it also increases robot damage, dex increases defense, and sidearm.

Oh, and also
quote:

If something here must be fixed, it would be removing ranks or nerfing them or buffing legendary mode.
Buffing legendary mode(The 2 skills we're talking about). :D

< Message edited by Illuminist -- 7/1/2015 15:16:57 >
Post #: 19
7/1/2015 15:29:25   
Lord Machaar
Member

Buffing medical master + energy efficiency = Buffing legendary mode in all cases.
If you are comparing rank 60s to rank 80s, the players with rank 80s don't face rank 60 players only, they face players from level 36, 37, 38, 39, rank 1,2,3....4,5..60. So if you are telling me that rank 80 have "zero" problem against these players, the problem is between rank 80s and rank 60s, well then, if you buff medical master/energy efficency, then you will be buffing rank 80 players against all players from level 36 to rank 60. Seems fair to you?, If you are going to buff medical master and energy efficiency, just because rank 80 players have problems against rank 60 players, well then, you will be buffing rank 80 players even though they still win level 36 - rank 50 players with no troubles.


< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 7/1/2015 15:36:48 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 20
7/1/2015 15:34:42   
Illuminist
Member
 

 I was talking about the 20 slots(energy efficiency and medical mastery) between 60 and 80, you know. And yea, rank 80 should have an advantage over everyone, because you know...they're rank 80.
Post #: 21
7/1/2015 15:40:29   
King Bling
Member

Ranks are accessible to all, and not just a single or two, in general if you put aside doggies and legendary modes, the skill in general as I said is weak, it is not on par just like class skills.

Now tell me did fighting a person who has +10 heal more than you make any difference? Speaking theoretically it does make, but when in a real fight, it doesnt. What so ever you say wouldnt
change the fact that -10 energy cost for 150k credits and 10 ranks is so less, ya true it doesnt need a buff but apparently a small increase in its value, everyone knows -10 doesnt matter at all
only extreme cases where your 1 or 2 energy short in extreme situations, but like I said in general these slots were made without any thought I think. Because all 40 slots of them are extremely
useless and if so they should be removed because they dont benefit at all. Npc's are still beatable in 4 turns even before this extra skills, and lot of em have beat titan with no points on this slots.
NPC crusher/Armor or No NPC crusher/Armor it dint change anything, same goes with -10 energy and +20 heal. It doesnt turn the whole game.

Over all, your point may be right at the end, but the luck factors that the doggy lends to a rank 1 are far better than those +20 heal or -10 energy per cores.
And this POST IS ALL ABOUT THE SPECIFIC SKILL, "MEDIC MASTERY" AND NOT ABOUT SOME DOGGY STUFF OR DOGGY BISCUITS....pfft I mean doggy buffs.
Post #: 22
7/1/2015 15:43:36   
Lord Machaar
Member

@Illuminist: Rank 80 players still have "Huge" advantage against all players, the advantage gets smaller and smaller when rank 80 players are facing player with higher rank. If you have 80 ranks and you still have troubles defeating a level 36, well that's your personal problem, we are here talking about the game in general not about one case or 2 cases. If rank 80s find rank 60s as a challenge, well that was totally intended, because that's logic, if you want a rank 1 player more competitive, engine says, you must buff everyone equally, that's the engine and its limitations, and it was said more than once, that ranking system is weak from level 1 - 40 and doing great from rank 20 - 80. Logic says we should buff ranking system in level 1 - 40 range and nerf it in rank 20 - 80 range, but engine has limiations, and this is one of them, buff all or nerf all. If you want the underdog mode to be nerfed in rank 20 - 80 ranges, it will be nerfed also in levle 1 - 40 ranges where underdog mode is already doing bad, looks logical to you?

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 7/1/2015 15:48:31 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 23
7/1/2015 15:47:31   
Illuminist
Member
 
quote:

Rank 80 players still have "Huge" advantage against all players
Since you had to put "Huge" in quotes there's no way that you meant that.
And uh, 1-40 includes 20......
Post #: 24
7/1/2015 16:57:54   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

Since you had to put "Huge" in quotes there's no way that you meant that.
And uh, 1-40 includes 20......


I don't know what you meant by saying that but anyways, it made no sense to me.


I wanted to talk about another thing which is, if you are saying that medical mastery and energy efficiency are useless, what about when you play a strenght build at rank 80, +40 robot damage slot matters? +40 auxiliary damage slot matters? +30 sidearm damage matters?
For support buils, does +30 primary damage matter? does +30 sidearm damage matter? does +40 robot damage matter?
Atleast medical mastery and energy efficiency both work with any build, it doesn't matter.
Only 5 Focus builds that benefit from all legendary slots, using other builds mean sometimes you waste 3 legendary slots, or yeah, that doesn't matter to you?

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 7/1/2015 16:59:57 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 25
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