Home  | Login  | Register  | Help  | Play 

Revert these changes

  		Logged in as: Guest
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [EpicDuel] >> EpicDuel Balance >> Revert these changes
Forum Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
7/6/2015 21:29:28   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 We all had favorites of some balance changes....Why not bring back those favorites but altogether since they never existed at the same time? Heres what I mean:

1) Parasite- revert back to 3 turns, 85% dmg and unblockable

2) Static charge- revert back to 85% dmg (im not sure if it was 100, I think so though) and unblockable

3) Frenzy- Revert back to an HP gaining move, and unblockable

4) Poison Grenade- Bring back the 2 turn cooldown that made this class unique (before you guys quickly say no I just want you to legitimately think about it after the str nerfs and implementation of underdog. The CD used to be 2 before and it wasn't a problem UNTIL frenzy gave energy).

That's all ive got for now
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 1
7/6/2015 22:35:56   
Mother1
Member

#1 was never a favorite of mine in fact IIRC it was my suggestion to make energy parasite blockable in the first place due to it being a free hit when strength was running rampant. Not to mention Energy parasite having 3 turns again. I can only support this if Energy parasite get's a higher cool down rate. Having it last three turns while having a three turn cooldown means BM's can loop this infinitely. They are already the one class who has a drainer that can give them free energy with this move.

#2 If they did this revert then Static would no longer have the ability to crit or even be used with rage. That was the drawback to static at in this form. Plus IIRC many cyber hunters didn't like this at all due to the drawbacks that came with the move to keep it from being overpowered.

#3 Frenzy was never unblockable to begin with. So while I do support the reverting of this move and having it cost energy again I don't support it being unblockable.

#4 Not supported as well.

Poison got it's cool down increased due to it being too spammable. Not to mention the only real counter to it has a 4 turn cooldown which would mean that Poison would be abused once again by TLMs'
It was abused like this even before the frenzy change was made.
Epic  Post #: 2
7/6/2015 22:59:04   
shadow.bane
Member

as @mother 1 said i agree with her 100 %

as for poison grenade ? what really ? o.O 2 turns cooldown ? even if str was nerfed it would make str tlm overpowered again . do the scenario in ur head and tell me how it goes for u .

_____________________________

Bane Hallow The Last Shadow Fiend.
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
7/6/2015 23:18:25   
Uchiha Sarada
Banned
Supported Everything but Poison Should Stay at 3 cool-down to prevent the abuse and it needs a Requirement too.
Frenzy Shouldn't give that much energy, either remove the energy it gives or just lower it because it gives more energy than hp which is dumb dattebayo.
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
7/6/2015 23:38:34   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

3) Frenzy- Revert back to an HP gaining move, and unblockable.

TLM class has the worst energy-control skills, battery back up is useless once you go deeper in battle since every other class has an energy draining skill, and since no one uses static smasher, because it requires a club, I found that this isn't an incentive at all to use a club, since the skill is already bad, makes you waste one skill point on multi, and it is a bad version of EMP. With that being said, frenzy remains the only skill that helps TLMs to gain some energy after their opponents have used their energy draining skill, yet frenzy remains useless if it is not used at rage, and it gives back 50 - 100 energy, it is also blockable, the damage ignored is so small that goes unnoticed thanks to RNG, the HP regain is lame and finally, this class has received an indirect nerf when strenght scaling was changed.. So yeah, I think the skill is fine as it is, if it needs something, it certainly would be a buff.

quote:

4) Poison Grenade- Bring back the 2 turn cooldown that made this class unique (before you guys quickly say no I just want you to legitimately think about it after the str nerfs and implementation of underdog. The CD used to be 2 before and it wasn't a problem UNTIL frenzy gave energy).

Not supported, that nerf was made for a reason.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 7/6/2015 23:40:09 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 5
7/6/2015 23:50:35   
overdead
Member

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mother1

#2 If they did this revert then Static would no longer have the ability to crit or even be used with rage. That was the drawback to static at in this form. Plus IIRC many cyber hunters didn't like this at all due to the drawbacks that came with the move to keep it from being overpowered.
I'd actually prefer this. I'd prefer rage to not affect static charge because it's weak, damage-wise. Cybers isn't effective (or viable at all) as str build so the damage of static will always be pitiful.

#2 Supported

#4 Not supported. Refer to Lord Machaar's post. Will support if #3 gets implemented (I'm assuming you are referring to removing the energy gaining effect).
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
7/7/2015 1:20:17   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Thanks for the reply guys. As for static charge, every time I see this skill being used I always see minimum dmg meaning the literal 30 dmg. It used to be so much more and I hate that it has been nerfed to nothing. I would like for it to be unblockable again and I I think its fair if the attack cant be raged.

As for frenzy: For a skill that was initially meant to grant hp it seems to be pretty useless at the moment. I mean useless in the sense that the hp gain on the skill is terrible. Dont get me wrong, I for one love the energy gain however what made this class unique was the 30% hp gain it had (I believe it was actually more) and I also believe the cool down wasn't as long as it is now. Keep the energy gain, and instead of nerfing it just reverse the %s of hp/energy gain which will justify the next topic:poison grenade.

What truly made tlm unique was that it had. A 2 turn cd on poison grenade that wasn't op at all. The reason it wasn't op was because, realistically, that skill could only be used once (twice max if youre lucky) per battle because each and every skill on the tlm skill tree required energy to use besides battery back up and bloodshoeld. It was perfectly balanced and absolutely unique until frenzys energy gain % came into play. Thats the reason the grenade was nerfed. It was nerfed because of frenzy, not because of its 2 turn cool down. The skill had a 2 turn cool down for as long as I could remember and I would know since I experimented with that class literally for months with sir Lazarus. By reversing the effects of frenzy, this skills cd will be justifies and nowhere even close to op.

quote:

With that being said, frenzy remains the only skill that helps TLMs to gain some energy after their opponents have used their energy draining skill, yet frenzy remains useless if it is not used at rage, and it gives back 50 - 100 energy, it is also blockable, the damage ignored is so small that goes unnoticed thanks to RNG, the HP regain is lame and finally, this class has received an indirect nerf when strenght scaling was changed


We play in a game where people win by 1 hp so I don't think that anything is useless. The numbers that you are speaking of also seem to mainly be for one build whereas for other builds with a bit more strength (or if you utilize field commander) you will find that frenzy is much more useful. Also do keep in mind that tlm isn't the only class with 1 energy stealing move nor is it the only class to have received a Nerf due to the recent str nerfs. Other classes have suffered worse. Lastly I also believe that its alright if its skill atom smash requires a club due to the fact that your ultimate has no weapon requirement, you get a 4 turn shield and a 5 turn shield (which you can cast for no energy cost at all) hence allowing tlms to tank def and res while eating away at their opponents with a poison grenade, denying rage with surgical, and battery backup on standby.

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 7/7/2015 1:29:08 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 7
7/7/2015 2:35:06   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

The numbers that you are speaking of also seem to mainly be for one build whereas for other builds with a bit more strength (or if you utilize field commander) you will find that frenzy is much more useful.

Who uses field commander? field commander + stun grenade + static smasher + double strike are all skills that are meant to be in TLMs' skill tree to nerf it.
The numbers I gave are more than accurate, I've even exaggerated when I said 50 - 100, as a support TLM gets 10 energy after using it. Strenght TLMs are used for botting now, so it's not considered as a legit build. So yeah, the numbers I gave are more than accurate, and even 100 energy is sometimes unobtainable even with rage against tank players.
quote:

Also do keep in mind that tlm isn't the only class with 1 energy stealing move nor is it the only class to have received a Nerf due to the recent str nerfs.

TLM is the only class that requires a club to use its energy draining skill.
With that ^ being said. We can conclude*:
quote:

Lastly I also believe that its alright if its skill atom smash requires a club due to the fact that your ultimate has no weapon requirement, you get a 4 turn shield and a 5 turn shield (which you can cast for no energy cost at all) hence allowing tlms to tank def and res while eating away at their opponents with a poison grenade, denying rage with surgical, and battery backup on standby.

Blood Shield: remains inferior to technician as it is extremely useless when you are having low HP.
Mineral Armor: It improves with nothing, and it depends on how much defense you've got, therefore it is totally useless for strenght/support builds.
*Surgical Strike: Due to the bad energy control skills TLMs have, this skill is rarely used. In fact it can't be used against many classes that have strong energy draining skills.
*Poison Grenade: Due to the bad energy control skills TLMs have, this skill can't be spammed.
quote:

and battery backup on standby.

* Your opponent will also have his energy draining skill on standby.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 7/7/2015 2:38:24 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 8
7/7/2015 3:01:50   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Those claims, in reference to usablitiy, are highly opinionated and may seem either inferior or useless to you but are completely the major skills of certain other builds.

quote:

Your opponent will also have his energy draining skill on standby


And you too can also choose to have your energy draining skill on stand by. I have seen several builds utilize atom smasher effectively which just goes to say that one person can not speak as the whole but I appreciate your feedback based on your own personal experiences.

quote:

and even 100 energy is sometimes unobtainable even with rage against tank players.


Given the fact that frenzy ignores 10% def, rage ignores 45%, and the average tank lvl 40 has at least 480 prim dmg with at least 380 defenses, that means 190 defense is being ignored hence with a rage frenzy the avg player deals around 200+ which is more than enough to acquire +100 energy

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 7/7/2015 3:03:07 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 9
7/7/2015 4:02:17   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

And you too can also choose to have your energy draining skill on stand by. I have seen several builds utilize atom smasher effectively which just goes to say that one person can not speak as the whole but I appreciate your feedback based on your own personal experiences.

Yesterday I've done 180 wins, the day before it also, and in the last week, I've done a respected amount of wins which allow me to say that only 0.5% of TLM players use a static smash, to be more precise, the only player on the game that is active and does use a club and atom smasher is fas10, and if you look at his CP now, you will see that he removed it.
Even if saying that all TLM players use atom smasher, what've stated is completely wrong since atom smasher consumes energy, therefore if a TLM used battery back up and in the following turn his opponent used his energy draining skill, TLM would have 0 energy next turn to use atom smasher, except if we are talking about BMs, but agaainst any other class, atom smasher won't be available to be used. So yeah, you better check out your information about a class you don't play.

quote:

Given the fact that frenzy ignores 10% def, rage ignores 45%, and the average tank lvl 40 has at least 480 prim dmg with at least 380 defenses, that means 190 defense is being ignored hence with a rage frenzy the avg player deals around 200+ which is more than enough to acquire +100 energy

Dealing 200 damage with frenzy will grant you back 88 energy., so it would take you 227 damage to gain back 100 energy using frenzy. And that's if you deal that damage because:
480 prim dmg: If using 10 ranks on your primary damage, otherwise it is 450 damage.
380 defenses: That's if we aren't counting eternal protection.
200+: That's without taking in consideration RNG.
And in the end frenzy remains blockable, so there is a chance frenzy gives back nothing.
In any case 100 energy remains useless, you can't use level 1 field medic with it, you can't use poison, you can't use surgical, therefore, after some number of rounds TLM will be forced to use battery back up, which will eventually gets drained up, and re-used against them. We aren't even talking here about how uses his energy draining first, a typical debat between classes who have an energy draining skill, we are here talking about when a TLM will be forced to give out his energy.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 7/7/2015 4:09:24 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 10
7/7/2015 10:00:10   
The berserker killer
Member

 
quote:

Even if saying that all TLM players use atom smasher, what've stated is completely wrong since atom smasher consumes energy, therefore if a TLM used battery back up and in the following turn his opponent used his energy draining skill, TLM would have 0 energy next turn to use atom smasher, except if we are talking about BMs, but agaainst any other class, atom smasher won't be available to be used. So yeah, you better check out your information about a class you don't play.


Once again that is a personal opinionated claim that is surely welcome here however it does not speak for the majority of players. There are many scenarios that could've taken place such as an individual not showing a particular build in order to reserve it for future occurences. Tlm is a class that I have played with and pioneered in Omega and, in fact, I have played with every class for more than 4k+ wins. If you are implying that tlm needs a buff, I say go for it. I only care about winning so by buffing an entire class you will just be creating a FOTM class that I can switch to hence buffing everyone. In act, what I a offering is bringing back some of the best parts of previous balance updates.

As per your claim on frenzy, it was originally supposed to be an hp gaining move. Atom smash at lvl 1 does indeed take a sufficient amount of energy for a low cost. I find it hard to believe that one does nothave ample amount of energy to use the skill

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 7/7/2015 10:01:38 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 11
7/7/2015 13:53:12   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

Once again that is a personal opinionated claim that is surely welcome here however it does not speak for the majority of players. There are many scenarios that could've taken place such as an individual not showing a particular build in order to reserve it for future occurences. Tlm is a class that I have played with and pioneered in Omega and, in fact, I have played with every class for more than 4k+ wins. If you are implying that tlm needs a buff, I say go for it. I only care about winning so by buffing an entire class you will just be creating a FOTM class that I can switch to hence buffing everyone. In act, what I a offering is bringing back some of the best parts of previous balance updates.


I didn't make any "dedicated" posts to express my wish for TLM class to be buffed, I think this class is fine as it is, and even if it gets buffed, not everyone will be buffed since not everyone have enough credits/var to change class, and those who do have enough credits/var, most of them stick with their classes. I think this class needs tweaks but not major changes. The one here who wants to buff/nerf TLM is you, and just because you played this class in Omega, Omega has been around for 2 years + and I'm sure a lot of balance changes have occured, therefore you can't base your words on such experience unless you've played with this class yesterday.

quote:

As per your claim on frenzy, it was originally supposed to be an hp gaining move. Atom smash at lvl 1 does indeed take a sufficient amount of energy for a low cost. I find it hard to believe that one does nothave ample amount of energy to use the skill

reflex boost used to give back hp when BHs were attacked, blood commander didn't use to give back HP, health medic used to improve with support, the point here is, we aren't talking about what these skills were originally used for, we are here talking within the current stat of the game where each balance change was made for a reason.
And when I say that once you go deeper in battle, TLM face a problem concerning energy-control, since their battery back up skill is so vulnerable, even if atom smasher didn't require a club, this skill is not capable of changing the situation, considering that level 1 atom smasher is enough, which consumes 90 energy, using battery back will give you 333 energy, if your opponent uses his energy draining skill, he will leave you with 50 to 0 energy, depending on the skill, saying that you have frenzy, which gives back 50 energy when its used without a rage, your energy will be 100, alright then what? You think that your opponent is stupid? Ofcourse your opponent will utilize his energy before you get your hands on atom smasher, mostly on heal, leaving you with 100 energy which isn't even enough for level 1 heal.
I'm here talking about long battles, which is something you probably don't experience when you are using a strenght build. If you don't like to go deeper, that's your problem, but in the same time, try not to mak assumptions about them.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 7/7/2015 14:01:42 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 12
7/7/2015 14:02:24   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 You do realize these were some of the most influential changes made in balance.

For parasite, definitely no. People keep saying that "just use up all your energy before parasite can take it." This works right now, but the fact that it has only 1 turn of downtime if it lasts 3 turns makes it ridiculously suppressive, not to mention limited to BM builds that aren't as energy-reliant due to the fact that the drain per turn was less making the immediate drain weaker. Changing it to 3 turns does literally nothing beneficial aside from limit build variety and make fights a repetitive cycle that almost all BM fights once were, while clearly establishing very little possible counterplay in many matchups due to the skill duration's oppressive nature.

Static charge is also no. The point of the move is to get the benefits of attacking while also regaining energy. The benefits of attacking include damage and rage gain. Aside from EMP this is one of the most notable attributes of CH that lets it stand out among other classes since assimilation does reduced damage. If you lower the base damage value, then you lower the rage gain, damage dealt, and you make the move basically a guaranteed hit. The purpose of this move would shift to free damage + energy gain rather than the benefits of a normal attack + energy gain. Aside from that the main problem I really have with this skill is that it scales off of strike damage/strength and really shouldn't in order to add more flavor to the class. Lots of people are calling for more CH skills to scale with dex/tech. This would be a good opportunity to utilize that. The energy gain would still scale with support but the damage would scale off of another stat (maybe support too? Just something aside from strength).

As I am not a huge fan of bread and butter skills which shouldn't be used as soon as possible (IE they are up and it is safe to use it), TLM is really the only class that this can apply to (energy parasite is situational on the enemy's energy and using battery backup as soon as it is available is only effective on very specific builds). They can use frenzy with almost any build because it gives free resources and a bit of extra damage from the defense penetration. Right now frenzy is a definitive skill on TLM that distinguishes its otherwise generic builds from other classes' generic builds. It's fine and very interesting right now and there really is no reason to change it.

For poison grenade, I never connected frenzy to it. I don't ever even think I've seen a build where frenzy has made a huge contribution to the very frequent use of poison. And the CD used to be 1 turn I think? I don't actually remember. As for now I can't really support this either because while there actually is some rationale given for this suggestion the baseline of poison builds is that when the skill is allowed to be spammed it's a no-brain counter to a lot of builds based off of just 1 stat: health. If the CD is shortened the base damage will also have to be reduced by a bit too. The cumulative damage of the skill is WAY off the charts.
Epic  Post #: 13
7/7/2015 14:23:27   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Alrighty then. I could reply with a well thought out answer to dismiss several of those points but I really just don't feel like it if you guys cant see that these changes, together, would bring back the best parts of ed. Either way, I win battles
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 14
7/7/2015 15:19:33   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 @Ghost God what you don't realize is that in all of this balance section you aren't only trying to convince the forum goers that you are right but you are trying to convince the balance team that is lurking that you are right.

What you have just said with that post is you aren't confident enough with your idea to fight for it so why should the balance team be confident in listening to it? Debate this idea until you are blue in the face and only the facts remain well written out and unable to be dismissed by the ones who disagree with you. That is how you drive home a point not by saying you guys aren't worth my time because that just makes their argument look more powerful by you using hot air to try and dismiss their case.

TL;DR Convince us that you are right instead of making it seem like you can't defend your standpoint.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 15
7/7/2015 16:36:48   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Ok well ill try.

What you guys fail to realize is that the changes I am suggesting seem to have been some of the most powerful features of past balance updates and may very well bring about class uniqueness and enforce diversity. If some changes need to be, ill be free to address them with you guys such as a requirement for toxic grenade in addition to the 2 turn cooldoqn that it used to have.

The change to Frenzy was not liked by alot of players that utilized its ability for its hp gain. Now that it gives energy I can see why you guys are defending it to stay as an energy gaining move. You have grown accustomed to the skill in its present state so asking for it to give straight hp might be a bit too much to ask. Yet if we switch it around so that it grants more hp than energy then it would be a fair win to all while justifying the cause for toxic grenade to have a 2 turn cool down.

@Mother- parasites 3 turn drain, in my personal opinion since I cant speak for everyone, was only overpowered because of the short cool down and the strength at that time. Now that strength has received an appropriate Nerf while defenses have been raised on every underdog player (umode) the damage of the skill will absolutely fair. In its current state, energy parasite isn't a threat. With the two turns all you have to do is wait until the second turn to drain your opponents energy and that has proven successful nearly every time for me and every player that has asked me for advice on dealing with bloodmages. Now, with the str Nerf in play, we can make this skill in lockable at 85% dmg draining over three turns and a cd of 5.

As far as I'm concerned with static charge, this was a major Nerf to the skill making it blockable. Sure, the energy gain isn't blockable but cyber hunters need the buff that it used to have that made it an actual interesting class to play with. That buff is simply reverting the change of static charge to make it unblockable again. I mean the class already has a lack of physical moves, and there are mainly two builds with this class that barely work due to recent nerfs (I do believe I am qualified to say that because of how much time and credits I have invested in experimenting with each class). Yet when static charge was unblockable....the class wasn't a problem. It was fun. If anything I would suggest it dealing 110% dmg.

Lastly, I would like to say that these skills merely balanced each other out. Parasites 3 turn drain balanced out the energy gain from Ch static, and Ch static made up for the hp gain tlms would receive from frenzy..

Guys nearly every balance suggestion ive made in the past was implemented and it brought about diversity to the game with each and every one of them because I don't suggest nerfs and I don't strive for equality. I strive for balance, fairness and fun between classes. These features in the past never coexisted together, yet they were fun and deemed to bring about diversity.

If these changes happen then that'll be great, I hope you guys can see that. If not then I hope you guys are willing to wait at least 6 months for more interesting features to bring about diversity in builds. Im really confident in my suggestions as they will benefit everyone as opposed to a small majority or even a large majority of the population. Any and every one can switch between classes and any/everyone can utilize these reverted skills.

I will continue to defend my position not because I think its right but because I know it'll benefit the game for the better. I'm sure testing with 10 testers on dev servers will show that for sure. Sure, ill win regardless but id like to see more diversity
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 16
7/7/2015 17:36:10   
Mother1
Member

@ TBK

As Energy parasite is now it is now has a counter. As it was originally it didn't. As you pointed out the cooldown of the move was in sync with the duration of the drain, which meant that the moment the drain was over Energy parasite was ready for use again meaning as I pointed out an infinite loop. Not to mention the other unique part of this skill is the fact that it can be used even when the opponent has 0 energy giving a very small but free energy none the less.

Originally when it came out it only had 70% damage and was unblockable which wasn't a threat even with the massive about of strength due to it being more used for it's effect. However people wanted damage and begged for 85% damage which IIRC was against due to it being abused by strength. But in the end it happened anyways and what happened? As I mentioned strength gained a free unblockable hit that was damaging.

Also the frenzy change didn't make toxic grenade OP. It was the fact that it had 2 turns cool down that did this. Even before Frenzy was changed to give energy it still was too strong seeing as it was extremely easy to loop it with the right cores and battery backup. If it was as you said with toxic grenade where it came after the change that would be one thing but this isn't the case it happened before.

As for change 2 I never said I was against the change. I was just point out for that to happen those drawbacks I mentioned which some people didn't like would need to return to keep Static from becoming OP. Lastly for change 3 I was all for the change minus the unblockable part but that was due to Frenzy never being unblockable in the first place.
Epic  Post #: 17
7/7/2015 21:27:08   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Well for parasite a cool down of 5 turns, with an effect of three, seems to sound like a good fix. Correct?

quote:

Also the frenzy change didn't make toxic grenade OP. It was the fact that it had 2 turns cool down that did this.


I'm terribly sorry but I have to disagree with you right here. Tlm poison wasn't a problem at all until frenzys change. As I have stated before I know this for a fact because for two months before frenzy received its "nerfbuff" I experimented with this class since it seemed interesting and Sir Lazarus was pioneering it. Yes I really do mean two months. And the main problem with toxic grenade was that you didn't have enough energy to abuse the 2 turn cool down of poison and when you did have enough energy you were forced to invest points into energy pool. Once again idont say the things I say because I think they happened. I will always speak from experience and I wont lead anyone wrong.

Now should anyone have iffy feelings about 2 turn cool down again for toxic grenade I want you to do two things. 1) think about the time before frenzy had its change and how this class was completely underused and nowhere even close to overpowered. And 2) try to offer a suggestion to make it unique again. Whether that be a tech requirement on toxic grenade or some other limitation.

As for the devs, if you were to do the testing I can assure you there wouldn't be a problem with it again as long as frenzy changes to grant more hp than energy (simply reverse the %s), and slightly increase the cost of toxic grenade to make up for the fact that frenzy is now a "free skill".
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 18
7/7/2015 22:39:50   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

Well for parasite a cool down of 5 turns, with an effect of three, seems to sound like a good fix. Correct?


This is an acceptable change. I wouldn't mind it but I really don't see the need to change from the current parasite. The only problem I have with old parasite is that it had a downtime of 1 turn which made any fight with a BM extremely oppressive as they did not even need to think to exert tons of pressure on how you consume energy. It wasn't necessarily OP (although it might have been. This is up to subjectivity) but it just made fights very similar and repetitive. The better BMs were very easily distinguished based entirely off of their use of that skill, and the good players based off of how they try and counter the very short downtime on the skill.

And in the current meta poison skills are really gimped. They all do crazy high amounts of cumulative damage and the opponent's build doesn't matter at all aside from one stat: HP. They honestly all need to be reworked to have less base damage and less cost but be more spammable or something similar, and then have more methods to cure poison. Any other fixes that don't target the same problem will probably just be a bandaid fix that will later come back to haunt the balance team.
Epic  Post #: 19
7/7/2015 22:57:29   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Thanks for the reply again on parasite. I do believe it needs to be changed from its current meta simply because of how vulnerable it is. Just wait until the 2nd drain is complete to drain all of your opponents energy.

quote:

They honestly all need to be reworked to have less base damage and less cost but be more spammable or something similar, and then have more methods to cure poison


To be honest the entire system and all classes need to be reworked from the ground up in order for true diversity to come about but in all honesty we just don't have the time for that. I dont want to wait 2 years for deva to rework all classes and I don't want them to focus for two years on all classes. The faster they "fix" balance and bring back diversity then the sooner they can focus on actual fun content such as certain features like flags/killstreak cheevos/faction releases to bring back competition. Band Aid fixes aren't ideal but I could settle for one
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 20
7/7/2015 23:06:08   
Mother1
Member

@ TBK

On your last comment I agree 100%

All the classes need new skills that aren't shared skills at that. That would not only help diversity but also make it so one class that shares said move doesn't become underpowered or overpowered do to getting a buff, or nerf they don't need due to another class needing it.

I mean it is just silly that each the classes have any shared moved Period (Field medic is the exception to the rule)
Epic  Post #: 21
7/7/2015 23:51:40   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Yes everything needs to be reworked. It unfortunately isn't very likely to happen though, although the base structure of the game is absolutely terrible in a number of different ways. Everything is built to only receive bandaid fixes unless they are completely reworked since meta shifts will only screw themselves over more. An example would be stun skills. These skills are either always useful or useless based off of how their damage is in the meta builds. Additionally, the concept of such an influential RNG effect in a turn-based strategy game just shouldn't exist. It undermines the whole point of strategy and to an arguably more important extent, just gets players really angry
Epic  Post #: 22
7/8/2015 7:37:43   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 I have suggested more interesting "bamd-aid" fixes in the past if you guys would like to hear them? My suggestion was to give some classes th skills of NPCs. What that means is that I have noticed the Black Abyss has some dark energy moves that Blood Mages can really use and a "Rock Fall" move that I think would be great on tlm. Those moves are already coded into the game so just apply some testing and an entire class would literally be reworked from there. If devs wish they can also make several cores since the coding is already in game.

Another"band aid" fix would be to do the same thing with Davaaril and Tech Mage, and so on so forth if there are any other NPCs with unique moves.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 23
7/9/2015 5:31:34   
SS
Member
 
quote:

As Energy parasite is now it is now has a counter. As it was originally it didn't. As you pointed out the cooldown of the move was in sync with the duration of the drain, which meant that the moment the drain was over Energy parasite was ready for use again meaning as I pointed out an infinite loop.

Please recheck your info. Parasite's 3 turns cooldown with 3 turns drain meant there was one turn of "invulnerability" (the last one), when the skill was still "active" (but not draining), meaning you couldn't cast it again, because it became inactive after your turn. Do your math or ask people that played as BMs and know this frustrating thing.

Secondly, every non-BM wants this skill nerfed, but I can't understand why. Let's take a classical situation of 1 vs 1, both players having 0 energy. Let's say player 1 is a BM, player 2 is a TM or TLM. Player 2 uses battery backup to generate 300+ energy, let's say 320. If player 1 (the BM) is lucky enough, his Parasite is ready and he casts it. In the first turn, player 2 loses 64 energy, remaining with 256 - enough for a high level heal or a mid level high damage skill (like overload). Player 1 gets 96 energy, not enough for a heal or anything worth mentioning. Turn 2: Player 2 has used his energy and generated health or damage, so the drain is minimal. Let's say he has 40 energy left. 8 of it is drained, generating 12 for player 1, for a total of 108. Please someone explain me how this is OP! What can you do with 108 energy??
If player 2 is from another class, not able to generate energy - then player 1 can't drain it, so there's nothing to even discuss.

Now I know that everyone's frustrated by Energy Parasite because they generate 320 energy and want to use the lvl 10 overload or multi, or anything, and are unable to because of the drain, but other energy draining skills have the same effect, just draining much more energy, not leaving enough even for a low level heal. How come you don't want to nerf those??

Also, how many BM's have you seen use the Plasma Cannon more than 2 times in a match? In most cases they can use it only once, because they can never drain enough energy for a second time. Yet the TM's regularly use Overload + Plasma Rain + one of these two for a second time. Now whose energy skills are OP in this situation?


By the way, I am totally against increasing CD for any energy skill to 5, doing that will definitely bury the class depending on that skill. Energy circulation should also be balanced.

< Message edited by SS -- 7/9/2015 5:45:01 >
Post #: 24
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [EpicDuel] >> EpicDuel Balance >> Revert these changes
Jump to:



Advertisement




Icon Legend
New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Forum Content Copyright © 2018 Artix Entertainment, LLC.

"AdventureQuest", "DragonFable", "MechQuest", "EpicDuel", "BattleOn.com", "AdventureQuest Worlds", "Artix Entertainment"
and all game character names are either trademarks or registered trademarks of Artix Entertainment, LLC. All rights are reserved.
PRIVACY POLICY


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition