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8/6/2015 15:24:31   
DracoUltimus
Member

@Louis

The idea of alternate forms of transportation (hovering, flying, mounts) gets ALL OF MY YES. My thought on that would be a toggle feature, and that these alternate transports would allow you to move much faster, but you wouldn't be able to enter small buildings while in this mode (like the inn, or a barber shop and the like). I actually had that thought a while back, when thinking of the potential of AQ3D. On a different note, what is this "Auto-run" feature that is getting so much flak on this thread? Is it like the click-to-move mechanics of other MMOs? Or just a way of traveling that allows you to take a break while heading to a different town?

_____________________________

-Emril the Just
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 26
8/6/2015 15:27:03   
LyRein
Member

@above

Have you ever played an mmorpg, the ones you can click the quest dialogue and it either instantly teleports you to the NPC or makes an ugly trail of dots appear that your character auto follows?

That
Post #: 27
8/6/2015 15:45:01   
DracoUltimus
Member

Meh, I don't mind the trail so much as long as you can turn the actual walking part off. So I can explore without getting lost and still know the direction to go for the quest.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 28
8/6/2015 17:41:58   
LyRein
Member

Well there is not a trail on this game, but that's usually how these things work

Post #: 29
8/6/2015 18:48:50   
Rhowena
Legendary AK!!!


Auto-run here performs the same function as putting a rock on the W key. There's a substantial difference between that and full automatic pathing.
AQ DF  Post #: 30
8/6/2015 18:51:10   
LyRein
Member

@above

Just wait for the auto-guide path then we'll talk, they're going to add it we all know it

EDIT
If that's all it does then why did they add it anyways

< Message edited by LyRein -- 8/6/2015 18:55:28 >
Post #: 31
8/6/2015 19:17:30   
Rhowena
Legendary AK!!!


I've played games that have auto-run but not auto-path, so no, we don't know. And basic auto-run is good for those times when you want to get to something on the other side of the map and there's nothing interesting on the way; it's kind of relaxing to lean back in your chair and focus on steering.
AQ DF  Post #: 32
8/7/2015 0:52:23   
Vypie
Member

Hello!

I would like to suggest some things about the character movement and camera, along with other stuff.
After having played many different 3D games, including MMOs over the years, I instantly notice when something is unintuitive, regarding the movement of the character, in conjunction with the camera.

In general AQ3d makes a very similar approach to how other games, such as big MMOs, usually do it. Though there could be some improvements.

So far, so good!:
-'RMB' rotates character, and 'LMB' rotates the camera.
-Clicking both makes the character run and turn with the movement of the mouse.
-Walking using 'W' while pressing the 'RMB', makes the character turn with the mouse movement.

Now, something that I felt was a bit off, was that you could also turn your character while walking, using 'LMB'. But there is no point to that, as pressing the 'RMB' does EXACTLY the same thing.
If, while using WASD, you could press 'LMB' to rotate the camera around your character, it would be amazingly useful! I really was missing it.

One mouse button controls the character. Another mouse button controls the camera. But while walking around, both are being used to turn the character. Wouldn't it be much better to be able to look around our character while walking in one direction?
I remember using that to check behind me if monsters or enemies were chasing me, to more to a position while still being able to watch the battle, to look around and see the world while walking down the road. It's pretty useful to not be stuck to frontal camera movement when you are moving.


Okay that's what was bothering me most. :)
Now some other minor things:
- Walking backwards feels so sluggish, I think it could be better if it was at least 50% faster.
- Turning using WASD seems to be too fast to feel natural. Even when pressing just a bit, it moves a lot, and when walking around you have to make micro ajustments constantly (when not using the mouse to turn, ofc) I would reduce the speed of turning by 30%. Still faster than most games out there.
But seriously, when adjusting the direction, it feels like you are punching the camera to the left or right.
-There could also be a way to toggle between walking and running. It adds immersion, and its cool to see our character being able to walk casually.
-Usually there's a way to double-click to move to the clicked location, but this is optional. Note: the character should just walk in a straight line that way. It should not be automatic to the point of making turns and avoiding walls to reach the target location (it would be too much).


_________

Other things that I noticed were kind of bothering, was that you could not select a target unless you were close enough. It seems this was made to put a limit on the fireball casting range.
It was a bit strange because you could select a target, move away from the it, and still have the target selected. You could then proceed to shoot fireballs from a longer distance than normal.
I'm sure some of these are just not final, and will be changed as things get polished. But in any case, we should be able to select a character or enemy from far away, to check level, Health bar, and name.
A message saying "you are too far" when trying to use a ranged attack, would too be useful.

Stuff I would love to see added:
- Seeing the "target of the target" - Knowing who the boss is attacking is useful, and lets you know who to heal. In a crowd, It is impossible to see, not even click the person. Clicking on the "target of the target", would make that target also yours. Its also useful to see what monster or player another player is targeting.
- Chat bubbles. I'm sure this is a thing to happen, though!
-Health bars of characters in combat! It would be nice to be able to see the health of the monsters around you without having to click each of them (a floating health bar above the creature).
- An "Entering Combat" message to see when you have aggroed some monsters, and a "Leaving Combat" message, to let you know when the monsters have stopped chasing you.
- Attack speed stat. I would love to see this added to the game. It's a stat that would increase your Auto-attack speed, and maybe reduce casting times. Maybe even cooldowns? Anyways, a way to make your character become faster would make much sense, specially in the case of rogues and such agile classes. We could too have Weapons with different speeds. Daggers could attack quicker, compared to big Swords or maces, at the cost of base damage.


Some stuff I think could become better (mostly regarding animations):
- Attacks of monsters and players do not seem natural, because the animation is not timed to the moment the damage is dealt.
- Jumping seems weird. I haven't checked with male characters, but the female ones, when jumping, open the legs to the sides way too much, and it feels unnatural that a person would jump like that (atleast in relation to the rest of the body).
- The flips when jumping... they are cool, but a bit unreal, since no character would even do that in normal occasions. In my opinion, it would be okay if they were just less frequent.
- Poison could stack. Currently, poisoning a target makes it unable for other players to also poison the same monster, rendering one ability completely useless. It makes sense, as the more poison you have suffered, the worse the damage is to your body. Everyone should be able to contribute with the best damage they can do against a boss, for example.

___

I'm sure there was more I wanted to add, but this is what came to my mind at this moment. They are mostly opinions based on many different experiences, I hope some stuff could be considered.
Thanks for making this game ...it already makes me want it to be the best it can possibly be! :)
Epic  Post #: 33
8/7/2015 1:37:28   
afterlifex
Legend-X


quote:

Have you ever played an mmorpg, the ones you can click the quest dialogue and it either instantly teleports you to the NPC or makes an ugly trail of dots appear that your character auto follows?


*shutters* yes lets not go the route of copy and paste Chinese games.


Auto run I would say is arguable since it is just a "key lock". What no game ever needs is auto-pathing, if you need directions there can be an arrow system or a map.

That's an automatic "don't play" in my book. Lets keep away from AFK combat while we are at it.

< Message edited by afterlifex -- 8/7/2015 1:39:13 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 34
8/7/2015 5:24:16   
  Hopeful Guy

Hope Upbringer! (DragonFable)


Part of the fun of 3D games, at least for me, is the exploration of the world on foot (or on vehicles which the player can control). Auto run would take away that fun, but can still be convenient. Auto-pathing, however, is something I really wouldn't like at all, just because that unique element of being in a real world and exploring it disappears.

I also fully concur with what Azan said:
quote:

While I like really much this game so far, one suggestion I saw in this thread seems especially right to me: classes having more than four skills.

I get how having few skills per class makes classes easier and faster to create, but as a regular DragonFable player, 4 skills a class seems very limited to me. What I'm suggesting is not turning the AQW-like classes we have right now into DF-like classes, since we know how time and effort-consuming DF classes are to make - even if in my humble opinion, they allow for the best fighting mechanics in AE, but that's a matter of personal preference! -, but maybe find a middle ground between the two? I think 6 or 8 skills a class allows for much more uniqueness than 4 skills.


Part of the reason why I lost interest in AQW was because its combat system was a bit dull from my perspective, and I think an 8 skill class sounds like an excellent idea just so that there's some strategy involved in the game, with a wider range of moves to choose from.
DF  Post #: 35
8/7/2015 7:50:17   
Foulman
Member

How about a sneak attack, like in Assasins Creed. You insta kill a mob that is not a boss and get reduced gold and exp while provoking all monster aggro around you. If Aq3D had more stealth and actual ranged combat then it could compete against Assassin's Creed Identity, which is really what AQ3D should try to base itself on. I don't mean plagiarise the game; just add its many good features to your own game.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 36
8/7/2015 9:41:57   
LyRein
Member

Well I've realized how messed up my statements were, I thought it was auto-guide, my bad, sorry if I came off rude and arrogant.

quote:

How about a sneak attack, like in Assasins Creed. You insta kill a mob that is not a boss and get reduced gold and exp while provoking all monster aggro around you.


I like this idea, except for the insta-kill part, would be too overused and abused..

quote:

-Usually there's a way to double-click to move to the clicked location, but this is optional. Note: the character should just walk in a straight line that way. It should not be automatic to the point of making turns and avoiding walls to reach the target location (it would be too much).


A lot of gamers and a lot of my friends hate this click-to-walk feature, mostly because of how useless it is against the easier, comfortable and more interactive WASD, the only reason they would add this is to give that nostalgia of playing Runescape (good days).

quote:

Part of the fun of 3D games, at least for me, is the exploration of the world on foot (or on vehicles which the player can control).


Yeah, this is what I was trying to say.
What's the point in having a vehicle if you'll just /join areas or AFK at Yulgar?

That's like buying a car without wheels and saying: let's go for a drive

quote:

And basic auto-run is good for those times when you want to get to something on the other side of the map and there's nothing interesting on the way;


Cysero said he loves exploring himself and will plan on making a lot of secret areas inside cities/forests etc.
If he does keep it up there will always be something to find, so not really boring.

quote:

The idea of alternate forms of transportation (hovering, flying, mounts) gets ALL OF MY YES. My thought on that would be a toggle feature, and that these alternate transports would allow you to move much faster


Wouldn't this basically destroy the whole idea of mounts?
I don't want another AQW where mounts count as armor tyvm..

quote:

- Chat bubbles. I'm sure this is a thing to happen, though!


Too laggy, not a good idea, I don't want my screen taken up by white floating bubbles filled with: XD LOL SO KOOL GG, as i'm sure many others don't, either..

quote:

-Health bars of characters in combat! It would be nice to be able to see the health of the monsters around you without having to click each of them (a floating health bar above the creature).


IMO, the health bar fading (for lack of a better word) onto your screen looks better and feels better, maybe lags less too whereas giant health bars and chat bubbles destroy my monitor..

As a wise man once said...

"*shutters* yes lets not go the route of copy and paste Chinese games"

quote:

- An "Entering Combat" message to see when you have aggroed some monsters, and a "Leaving Combat" message, to let you know when the monsters have stopped chasing you.


This won't work in zones like greenguard, imagine getting out of combat then a monster spawns and you re-enter combat, also takes up my monitor like the other two suggestions and can cause little lag if overused..

I have a lot more ideas of my own, but I don't feel like posting them. If the AQ3D staff listen to us and add the (they're not bad) suggestions in this thread, (most of the people in this thread know what they're saying about combat and design), i'll post my ideas. If they don't notice this thread and continue copy and pasting all the cliches in the book i'm likely to never post my ideas.

< Message edited by LyRein -- 8/7/2015 9:44:39 >
Post #: 37
8/7/2015 15:36:26   
Axel459
The Void Calls


quote:

Really, the only thing that through me for a loop while playing was when I was in combat and I dodged my own heal.
WHY WOULD I WANT TO DODGE MY OWN HEAL?!
Body, why have your forsaken my life giving energy!?
Why do I kill myself in this way? D=

But, yeah. Don't think dodging heals is a feature that we want :P

I'm going to agree with this it's not fun being about to kill something and then dying because you dodged your own heal.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 38
8/7/2015 17:28:19   
Frogger
Member

I think this game is excellent.

The one down side of it is that the chat filter doesn't catch 'repeated' swear words - for example, if I were to swear once, and enter the same swear after in the chat message I was filling out, only the first swear would be filtered, and the second gets through for all to see.
This also happened with OverSoul and AQW; however, on AQ3D, I've noted a lot of people abusing this function, and would greatly appreciate it if AE could kindly resolve this issue immediately, as it spoils gameplay for me to see several swear words in the chat box, when I am attempting to enjoy an 'Everyone 3+' game.

Apart from that, you guys are doing an excellent one. Also, I enjoyed the preview video on YouTube very much.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 39
8/7/2015 18:19:32   
Vypie
Member

The chat filter is also filtering swear words when they are coincidentally part of two separate words.

Example: "When monsters hit you..." becomes "When monster* *** you..."

It gets really weird. I know some would abuse the filter by making spaces between the letters, but how to solve this? I guess there will always be ways to bypass it... =/
Personally, I do not enjoy swearing myself, but I actually prefer to keep the filter off in most games. I find that in games where there's strict filters, its even MORE awkward and annoying to see your own casual words get censured.
Epic  Post #: 40
8/8/2015 4:17:25   
Frogger
Member

@above: Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I've been muted a few times on AQW because the filter has detected 'banned words or phrases' in my chat messages, despite the fact that I was not attempting to bypass the filter!

Strict filters are things that really grind my gears. I know AE are just trying to keep everyone happy, but it really annoys me when I say 'I hate it when monsters hit you too hard' and in the chat box I see 'I hate it when monster* *** you too hard' - because I wasn't trying to bypass the filter xD

They need to fix the outright swear word ban (because I don't like using them in general, and dislike seeing them in an E-rated game even more), but also fix the 'bypass attempts' filter, because, for me, it just takes away from the feeling that you're actually on an adventure. I don't know about anyone else, but I like to feel immersed in an RPG/MMORPG, and filtered language that was unintentional takes away from it.

Besides this -

I'd really like to see mounts in this game, kinda like those seen in the YouTube preview video AE released. Riding FrogZards during events, or even just as a bit of fun during the Alpha/Beta testing phases, would be so cool!
I can't find much fault in AQ3D, besides those that I've already mentioned, and I'm really sure that this will be an amazing game! You guys are doing a great job with everything, and I can't wait for the release :D
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 41
8/8/2015 8:14:06   
Trancendus
Member

Speaking of the Profanity Filters and such, couldn't there be an option to well, let us choose whether to see profanity or not? Look at Trove for example.
As for mounts,I would really like if we could tame certain enemies or animals that we encounter. If that is added I guess. And please,do NOT make mounts part of armors. Make them seperate.

< Message edited by Trancendus -- 8/8/2015 8:15:03 >
Post #: 42
8/8/2015 8:20:49   
David the Wanderer
Legendary AK!


@Trancendus: All of AE's games are PG-13, and AQ3D will also be. To keep this rating, all profanity must be filtered.

Just to make you an example, when the Hero in DF said "Crap", the community was SHOCKED! There was a lot of uproar and discussions over that single word. The same happened some time later, although in a much smaller scale, when the Hero said "Damn", which is an even tamer word, and most people would agree it's not profanity. However, AQW still filters "damn". Why? Because such are the rules required to keep your game rated PG-13.

On mounts... I think the most interesting things would be flying and swimming mounts, because they'd let people explore areas that are otherwise unreachable. Of course, as people before me said, they shouldn't be easy to get, since if everybody was running around riding their mounts, the game would risk lagging horribly.
DF AQW  Post #: 43
8/8/2015 8:40:46   
LyRein
Member

@David

Half of those things ARE PG-13 though...

Combat

Since you'll probably not change it, I might as-well put my wish/ideas in for people to look at. I thought'd it have been much more smoother for them to still have a taglock (cause i don't want people raging at me for saying taglock off and aim required ) but the actual combat be like Dragonnest or TERA's, where you need to dodge, backflip, whatever to not get hit.

I don't get the meaning of adding a "You're Low On Mana" sign if there's a mana bar that gets emptier as you use mana, don't you think it would be a challenge and more pleasing if the sign was gone and you had to pay attention to your mana bar, it's there for a reason but not many games decide to actually make use of it other than aesthetic reasons..

Damage signs, like the random numbers coming out of monster' face. I don't want my enemy spitting numbers at me tyvm. Seriously though, it'd be more easy on the eye (and maybe on the processor) if when you hit a monster a damage number appears just above your skillset that gets higher if you do more damage.

I.E,
You deal 42 damage, a small/medium sized 42 appears right above the skill keys.
Next, you deal 50 damage, the small/medium number changes to 92.


< Message edited by LyRein -- 8/8/2015 8:41:09 >
Post #: 44
8/8/2015 14:12:24   
Vypie
Member

@Lyrein

I avoided talking much about combat, knowing the game is still very young. But it seems the idea they are going with is that of the typical MMO. We see the same stuff and mechanics get "copied", and so they become 'cliché'. But that happens because over the years, those where the mechanics that worked best and were successful.

However, I would also prefer if it was similar to Dragonnest. I have played it, and it was so much more fun than usual MMO types. There, you dont click-to-target anything:
- Instead, you aim at it, or throw a spell that affects the area in front of you, or around you.
- Attacks that affect all enemies in a cone shaped area, or in a straight line.
- Even melee attacks may hit all enemies in the area the sword is swung!
- Spells where you point at a location in the ground and something erupts.
- Attacks that knock back enemies, or pull them in by gravity!
- Abilities that combo well with each other, or behave differently after a previous ability was used (creating combos and new effect without requiring more buttons).
- The ability to jump, roll/teleport away from danger, and plenty of get-ins and get-outs. (and avoid, for example, a 'quake' attack by becoming airborne in the right moment)
- The possibilities are endless, when a single ability could work differently depending on how/when you use it. That way you can have just a few attacks and buttons.

I also liked that there the A.I. was incredibly good. The monsters didn't feel like mindless robots that only chase you and attack when in range. They actually kept their distance from you if they were ranged attackers, And they also avoided becoming all clumped together for easy AoE attacks, by spreading from each other a bit. They also moved sideways so they were not always easy targets. In general, all creatures were highly mobile. Of course you could attract them to an area, but not to the extent of placing a monster exactly where you wanted.

Surely, there's no way a game like AQ3D could ever become that, only for the simple reason that it would impossible to play in a tablet. Having a mouse is game-changingly useful. I imagine that regardless the way the game becomes, People playing in a tablet or phone will always be at a disadvantage. :(


Oh, about the numbers popping up above the enemy head. That could make things more clean. I don't know which game had that I played recently, but I can say it worked very well! The numbers kept adding instead of multiple smaller ones jumping all over.
If you stopped attacking for a second or two, then you would 'break' the damage continuity, and it would start from zero again.
Epic  Post #: 45
8/8/2015 14:32:51   
LyRein
Member

@above

That's what I meant by the damage, but over your skillset instead of the monster so it looks cleaner-er (that counts as a word apparently, didn't have that fancy red line under it)

Reason why I say they should expand and recreate ideas using the cliches (instead of copying them) is because it would be smart. People are getting bored of the typical MMO cliches, that's why weird, original, indie games are successful.
They don't follow the cliches. AE need to stop and think about this game for the long run.
It will attract people in the short-run, but how many of those people will stay? These are the kind of things they need to think about.

You play DN too? I played as barbarian and started a cleric. I agree and imo the combat was better than TERA's for me. The graphics aren't even that good but it's popular because of it's quality gameplay, not quantity of mechanics.

I agree with all the combat changes you'd like to see.

About the mobile..

That's where the problem comes in, the mobiles. I can't be bothered repeating myself but this is the reason why AQ3D can't be what it could be. LIMITATIONS. If you have the time read my posts about this on the general discussion, seriously I've typed why mobiles are worse for gaming too many times already.

People are actually moving closer to PC gaming, Steam is always getting popular and have even made their own software (steam OS).
AE went straight from web games to mobile.

AE would've had a better time making this game just for PC, download if necessary, so they aren't as limited. They have to constantly remove cool features and push down big ideas so it can work for mobiles.

Cy said they're designing this game for mobile in mind, why is that?
I'm starting to think they made 4 skills so the icons can fit on the mobile screen too now
Post #: 46
8/8/2015 15:18:11   
Vypie
Member

@above

Yeah! I played mostly Acrobat (archer variation) It was awesomely fun! It was a mix of melee and ranged combat. It was very interesting, because you had to be close enough to attack, while still avoiding enemy contact!


About what players all over the world prefer, its kind of different. It seems everyone wants different, original games with new stuff, because they are bored of the same thing. But when gaming companies or indies develop original games, they aren't usually well received. Sure they might be popular for lots of people, but most players usually go back to what they have known for years :(
I am all up for new interesting games with innovation, but because of that, innovating tends to be a risk, and, most of the times, not profitable at all.
Nintendo, for example, suffered from investing in new things. They took a huge cost because players just wanted more of the same. =/

Its sad to see that usually, original stuff ends up not being worth it...

< Message edited by Vypie -- 8/8/2015 15:19:42 >
Epic  Post #: 47
8/8/2015 15:27:45   
LyRein
Member

@above

Well that depends, people obviously only buy games/play games if it gets good reviews and they like it themselves. They don't quit, they obviously still go on to play once a few days.

It's the fact people are scared that the world in general can't progress forward.

Nintendo are a big company though, they are EXPECTED to make a good game. Indie companies make good original games and people say: Wow, that was incredible!

Because indie companies aren't expected to make a good game, so when they do their game gets popular for that reason.
AE needs to get out of their comfort zone a little..



Post #: 48
8/8/2015 15:52:54   
Frogger
Member

quote:

AE needs to get out of their comfort zone a little..

Precisely what I've been saying. If AE don't step out of their comfort zone with the skills that characters possess, AQ3D may as well end up as a rehash of AQW. Which would be very boring.
It would also help with game popularity to include original content - and help AE become more renowned. And that can only be a good thing.

< Message edited by Frogger -- 8/8/2015 15:53:43 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 49
8/10/2015 0:15:32   
megakyle777
Member

Just a idea, but haiving played some ESO I'd like a way to revive players back at the fight before the respawn counter rather then make them go back to the map. Like ESO however it should be limited and be a little bit costly.
DF  Post #: 50
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