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Slightly controversial idea to make epic duel more fun (for me at least)

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8/16/2015 6:28:02   
xxxromanxxx4
Member
 

 So I occasionally log onto epic duel - I often check the design notes on a weekly basis and if i see there has been some balance changes I log on for an hour or two and see whats changed. I think the reason why I enjoy balance changes is because it makes a big change to your play style if you end up changing your build. Quite a lot of players I think mainly play one or two main builds (because they want to win) and while there are other builds out there they may not be feasible with the current balance changes in the game.

My suggestion:
make balance changes a common thing and make them fairly major in the effect of them. For example: one week you may announce that all stun abilities have been increased to 50% and that critical hits now drain energy equal to 10% of damage (or other random stuff). Point is that those balance changes may not be the most balanced but they will be constantly changing so it should make for a more fun game (if what you like is creating new and powerful builds).

Moved to EpicDuel Balance as this is more towards balance than being an actual discussion of content. ~Therril Oreb

< Message edited by Therril Oreb -- 8/20/2015 3:54:42 >
Post #: 1
8/16/2015 14:43:26   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Another thing similar to this was when weapons had unique stat boosts and stat requirements. Now that this is gone in Omega releases aren't nearly as interesting anymore.
Epic  Post #: 2
8/16/2015 18:35:01   
CactusHumper
Member

but the thing is wouldn't that take a lot of time to keep announcing new design notes and constantly implementing balance changes?
Epic  Post #: 3
8/16/2015 19:06:21   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 The problem is the dev's focus isn't on ED anymore.

I can say that a very, very large majority of new releases are made entirely by guest artists and writers. The devs probably just add in a few things here and there and make their own-paper ideas happen in-game.
Epic  Post #: 4
8/16/2015 22:30:47   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 The idea here sounds a lot like tavern brawl in Hearthstone. Every week you get some random rule with little regard to the meta and it is an entirely different game mode so people can still play the normal game
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 5
8/17/2015 14:01:41   
veneeria
Member

It is kinda concerning if the only way to keep the game fresh is by doing that. Epicduel used to be more diverse in terms of build making, which led to hours of unpredictable fun/bad/good encounters.
But recent handcuffs kinda made it sort of hard to enjoy the game and only contributed to a monotonous experience.

And considering how things are progressing, it doesn't look like it will change any time soon, or i dare to say, ever.

Edit:
Arguably, i don't think some balance changes were ever required or/and for that same reason ever needed to fix "OP" builds. By nature we all look for the best and most effective build, but at the same time wish them gone?

The counter argument apparently to enable all OP builds back into epicduel apparently is that it makes the battles become more luck based. Which is actuality false, that only applies when it is the SAME build, regardless if it is OP or not.
What truly maters in balancing builds, in my opinion, is that battles aren't too short and players aren't invincible/ the success rate isn't over 80%.

Same thing applies to changes like removing passives, that was entirely uncalled for, if you can actuality dig to my posts, i said so in the past when it was going to be implemented too. It only resulted in classes becoming less distinguishable and fun to experiment.


All of this makes me want to fly to Florida and hit Nightwraith with a stick. Titan is cool, tho.

< Message edited by veneeria -- 8/17/2015 14:17:02 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
8/17/2015 14:54:35   
Therril Oreb
Legendary AdventureGuide!


 Balance is a fickle thing, as you all might have noticed if you go through all the balance discussions in EpicDuel Balance.
So all the feedback is useful if you have them!

Also remember, Epicduel runs on bi-weekly releases so content is not pouring out as fast as we might like. But the BioBeasts project is not an ever lasting project.
So changes are not as fast but they will still happen. Just stay tuned for upcoming releases!
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 7
8/17/2015 19:31:22   
Lord Machaar
Member

Your idea sounds cool, since the game now runs on bi-weekly udpates as our PR friend stated, I'm quite sure our testers have a lot of free time for balance. But, do you think it is the case?
Where is juggernaut battle mode's fix, a battle mode that has been broken for 1 or 2 years now? What about an underdog mode for 2vs2? What about the bad energy draining/gaining skill that mercenaries have? What about the war system?...
These for me are priorities, if the 1 tester (Whitetiger) and half tester (Mecha Mario) can't get these done, they simply wouldn't be able to implement an idea, which will mainly contribute to 1vs1 battles. Beside this, pretending that we have 5 testers, changing values isn't an easy task, it takes a lot of testing, otherwise each week we will have an OP class/build, meaning that you will upset 80% of other players, and one week is more than enough to get the majority to quit.
MQ Epic  Post #: 8
8/17/2015 20:39:49   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 The problem is builds now drastically limit other giant ranges of builds. It's no longer a build directly counters another build, it's that one build counters half of all possible builds to be made. IE support builds countering low HP builds and other similar things. This alone is enough to make balance changes difficult because the root of the problem is never tackled and I'm not even sure if the balance team is aware of what is killing off build variety in PvP.
Epic  Post #: 9
8/18/2015 6:41:21   
Therril Oreb
Legendary AdventureGuide!


 Larger changes into the game are obviously planned. EpicDuel is not going down. But due to the development of BioBeasts, said larger ideas will have to wait until the team has the time for it.
I cannot disclose what the ideas are and since there is still time, they can change both due to feedback from you guys as well as better ideas coming up.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 10
8/19/2015 21:04:28   
Xendran
Member

Forced cyclical balance like this is the absolute worst way to balance a meta.
You want a naturally cycling meta where it evolves as players adapt.
Lets say heal loop wasn't quite as OP as it was (becuase it was way too OP), we would have ended up going almost cyclical then because high strength hunters were a counter to it.
So heal mage becomes too prevelant, people start playing hunter to counter it. Eventually the hunters start overtaking the mages in numbers so people start making counter builds to that. Then the cycle repeats with new builds each time. Granted ED doesn't really have enough diversity to make this happen yet because of how few and similar all of the skills are and have been for the last half a decade.

Flavor of the Month is not a problem, the problem is when it's not possible to actually be ahead of the meta like it is now (for example, being that first hunter to make the mage counter build, putting you ahead of the meta and allowing you to ladder competetively, and then compensating for the increase in hunters as the counter becomes more well known, putting you ahead of the up and coming hunter meta, etc.)
FotM should never be the be-all end-all of builds in that meta.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 8/19/2015 21:07:26 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 11
8/20/2015 0:48:50   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Cyclical meta shifts are very important. However, it's hard to manage that when every class gets a base 600+ energy, which makes very bursty builds crazy easy to run, eliminating the ability to even use low-HP builds without getting completely destroyed by such a huge variety of builds, which is why I suggested a reduction to max energy so that it no longer increases with level and is always around 45 like in previous phases.

The fact that the high base energy gives so many builds opportunities to use high-cost skills without investing in their energy pool ruined a giant category of builds, and when a solid fraction of builds are permanently out of the meta it makes cycles smaller or much slower since there are less counterbuild options.

TL;DR lower base energy pool and it will solve some problems.
Epic  Post #: 12
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