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Legendary God of War / Legendary NPCs

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10/31/2015 4:28:49   
Thylek Shran
Member

Looks like he is to much OPed and deserves a nerf. Trying to beat him with my TM since days
and wasted about 40k Credits yet by retraining and stat cores.

- Since Assimilation got nerfed TM lacks energy regeneration for Legendary NPCs
- The situation is even much more worse for CH, BH, and Mercenary
- Plasma Cannon does crit way to often (25%)
- The Nanosteel Armor core does not help much with critical damage reduction
- Way to much damage and crits overall even when having 60 support

Suggestion:
- Nerf Legendary God of War by 20 strenght and support
- Remove Plasma Cannon from his skill tree
- Buff Nanosteel Armor
- Remove the cost for retrain and changing stats on items as its a systemic inherent part of the game
- Give all classes enough Energy Point regeneration abilites for Legendary NPCs and other bosses

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 10/31/2015 6:21:04 >
DF Epic  Post #: 1
10/31/2015 7:06:00   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 Deathknightmare used a TLM build to beat him here. shadow.bane almost beat him (save for extraordinary bad luck) with a TM build shown in the same thread.

You could try emulating the general idea of his build (high HP, high heal). In addition, max Assimilation would give on average more than Deathknightmare's level 4 Frenzy, even on rage.

60 support sounds way too much when you're trying to beat a legendary boss. In addition, Nanosteel Armour is mathematically less worth it than Critical Heal or Eternal Protection, especially against a legendary boss.

< Message edited by Silver Sky Magician -- 10/31/2015 7:07:28 >
Post #: 2
10/31/2015 9:04:59   
Thylek Shran
Member

I tried more than 50 builds including low and medium high HP like 1100 and 1200
and I was able to bring him down to 13k HP with TM.
Then I did run out of EPs several times which was in about round 300.
I know that 60 support is to much but when you still get critted like mad with
60 support something is just wrong with the NPC.

I also know the build from shadow.bane as I did use a very similar one in my
many tries. But as you see he also was not able to beat this NPC because TM is
weak compared to TLM. Even that it is the second best class for bosses it does fail
on Legendary God of War. I know that it should be possible to win with TM but the
player would need ALOT of luck, time and credits. To much of all as it aint fun to
invest more than 24 hours and tons of credits for just 1 boss and to loose more
than hundred times over and over.

quote:

Nanosteel Armour is mathematically less worth it than Critical Heal or Eternal Protection, especially against a legendary boss.

This is why it does need a buff.

quote:

In addition, max Assimilation would give on average more than Deathknightmare's level 4 Frenzy, even on rage.

Yes but TLM is OPed because of Blood Shield (which is a 5 turn low level Energy Shield)
and Frenzy adding HP while Blood Shield does cost HP and not EP. This is why Frenzy
is stronger than Assimilation here and in most other situations where damage does
not matter much. TM has the problem that the player first somehow has to deal damage
to a Legendary NPC, when it has been brought down in EP, to be able to drain it !
DF Epic  Post #: 3
11/3/2015 2:20:42   
Deathknightmare
Member

I actually messed up my build. My armor was not 60/60. It was 10/110 and once I took bludgeon away with pyro I just had to worry about fire scythe and I just used blood shield. I would only use mineral armor if I was really low on health. Hope this helps. TLM is the best way to beat him. I tried TM and failed badly.
Post #: 4
11/3/2015 10:56:36   
dfo99
Member
 

 technically, this boss is easier than the leg titan because he have no berserker skill. i also have defeated him.
Post #: 5
11/6/2015 17:16:09   
racing.lo.mas
Member

Legendary God of War is stronger than Legendary Titan, because the real fight stars when he is out of energy. In that moment he strikes dealing 200 damage (when you have 400 resistance i guess).
I dont think the boss should be nerf. It's posible to beat him, and the idea of making him hard is to see who is enough good to beat him.
By the way I beat him with TM, i wasted a lot of credits too. If I could win you also can win.
Epic  Post #: 6
11/9/2015 6:11:32   
shadow.bane
Member

@thylek i beat legendary god of war , on rank 64 , as tlm ! but some TM's have used my build to kill it and it work ! your high rank would do just fine versus it , like emolicious used it and some more ! here's the build :

900 hp
640 ep

20 + 0 str
128 + 35 + 6 dex
55 + 35 tech
17 + 14 + 6 support

8 - 1 - 1
3 - 1 - 1
1 - M - 6
M - 0 - 0

armor on 90 - 30 ( critical heal and generator )

good luck ! :)

< Message edited by shadow.bane -- 11/10/2015 1:28:53 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 7
11/22/2015 7:58:53   
Lord Machaar
Member

Legendary God Of War shouldn't be nerfed, since many players had already defeated him, including me, but the thing is, upcoming legendary bosses should be featured with a new set of skills and strategies, it has been ages now since legendary bosses count on extremely high hp and energy, fire scythe and bludgeon, bloodlust and reroute as passive skills, and the typical energy skills (plasma bolt, plasma cannon, stun grenade, overload and plasma rain) plus berzerker for some bosses. The thing is after awhile, these battles will get boring, beside the fact that you are going to waste 2 - 3 hours on a fight where you are absolutely doing nothing but repeating the same 5 moves. In the end this is a game, sure this is a hardcore fight but it should be interesting.

I have no idea why devs can't implement other skills and other passive skills (deadly aim, etc...), I mean they are already there, it's not rocket science, you aren't making them from scratch.
This will make legendary battles more interesting, short (not 900 turns) and fun. Maybe a 2vs2 legendary fight would be great, a survival mode which has been suggested thousand of times, where the boss goes from normal mode to legendary one. Sure devs don't have time to make all this, but I hope when they have a little time after Biobeast's release, such features will be released, which will keep the game interesting for the upcoming weeks/months when devs set their eyes on a new biobeast-like project.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 11/22/2015 8:09:45 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 8
11/22/2015 12:59:30   
Thylek Shran
Member

quote:

Legendary God Of War shouldn't be nerfed, since many players had already defeated him

And most of these players had to use alot credits. Its obvious that those players want to prevent
following players to get the achievement and spending less credits as it would make them jealous.
Following your logic Infernal Android and other oped stuff does not need to get nerfed as alot players
are already using them. And of course the players that are using oped builds and items will do all
to prevent them from getting nerfed. This behaviour always was the core problem for balance.

The reason why Legendary NPCs have so many HP and EP is that it makes the fights alot harder
as the chance to fail does increase with each round. Alot bad things can happen there like chain
stuns and chain crits that can make everyone fail. Players can experience a connection loss,
browser crash, flash crash, getting disturbed by other people or pets, so there is a big luck factor
involved in long fights. 2-3 hours and up to 600 rounds is way to long and I am sure that the most
players do hate Legendary NPC fights for that.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 11/22/2015 13:17:48 >
DF Epic  Post #: 9
11/22/2015 13:11:58   
dfo99
Member
 

 thylek

unlike get rare items, bosses can be defeated by everybody, balance equipment and skill have no relation to balance bosses difficult because equipment/skills can be used against other players and leg bosses is you vs an AI. anyway you are knowed as the easiest high rank player to defeat even before the underdog release, it is not a surprise to nobody you be unable to defeat the lgow.

< Message edited by dfo99 -- 11/23/2015 4:06:15 >
Post #: 10
11/22/2015 13:21:18   
Thylek Shran
Member

quote:

anyway you are knowed as the easiest high rank player to defeat even before the underdog release, it is not a surprise to anybody you be unable to defeat the lgow.

Why do you hide your character profile troll ?
DF Epic  Post #: 11
11/22/2015 15:54:04   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

And most of these players had to use alot credits. Its obvious that those players want to prevent
following players to get the achievement and spending less credits as it would make them jealous.


Some players did defeat him on 3rd/4th try with the right build. I even defeated him on the second try with a very successful build (after I lost connection in the 1st try at 5k HP).
Tech Mage is not the best class to defeat him as it is too risky, yet with a TLM, you should do fine, therefore we can't nerf the boss due to one reason. (Yet many TMs did defeat him including R A C I N G which I believe he is lower rank than you).

quote:

Following your logic Infernal Android and other oped stuff does not need to get nerfed as alot players
are already using them. And of course the players that are using oped builds and items will do all
to prevent them from getting nerfed. This behaviour always was the core problem for balance.


And once again, comparing the incomparable. We are here talking about a legendary boss, that must be hard, although I don't agree with the way they are making legendary bosses harder, yet I agree they should be hard.
If you are losing to this boss, it's because of YOU not because of him. Since many TMs did defeat him with lower rank than you, therefore we won't nerf a boss because of one player.

quote:

The reason why Legendary NPCs have so many HP and EP is that it makes the fights alot harder
as the chance to fail does increase with each round. Alot bad things can happen there like chain
stuns and chain crits that can make everyone fail.


It doesn't happen only to you, it does happen to everyone, yet many managed to defeat him.

quote:

Players can experience a connection loss,
browser crash, flash crash, getting disturbed by other people or pets, so there is a big luck factor
involved in long fights. 2-3 hours and up to 600 rounds is way to long and I am sure that the most
players do hate Legendary NPC fights for that.


I have already mentioned all of these points, yet I don't want them to get applied on the boss now since many players defeated him (I did ask for a nerf when only 1 player defeat him), therefore it will be unfair to these players who wasted tons of credits and time, so in the end the boss gets nerfed so you can defeat him, it won't devalue the achievment given by the boss, but will also make players lose trust in the devs, why waste credits and time on a legendary boss that will get nerfed afterwards?
I do want these points to be considered when making the newer legendary bosses.
MQ Epic  Post #: 12
11/22/2015 20:24:17   
Thylek Shran
Member

quote:

Yet many TMs did defeat him including R A C I N G which I believe he is lower rank than you

Most lvl 40s have not defeated Legendary Titan and Legendary M4tr1x so only a few have defeated
Legendary God of War. For these bosses you do not need more than 40-50 ranks as more are not much
helpfull and about 99.5% of lvl 40s have less ranks than my character so this does not surprise me.
Just tell me how many Cyber Hunters, Bounty Hunters, Mercenaries and Blood Mages have defeated
one of the Legendary bosses without class change ? If TLM can defeat LGOW on first or second try with a
copied build that was successfull while TM has alot trouble and all other classes should not be able to
defeat him, ALOT is wrong with this boss and class balance.

Personally I could beat him with my own build (not a copy) if I would try long enough but atm its
impossible to me to spend more than 2 hours continuous in ED while being fully prepared and
concentrated. To me it seems that LGOW has not been tested at all when being released as he just is
an enhanced version of Legendary M4tr1x.

The devs sure have their fun seeing so many players failing on him and they informed us in the past
that they did not know if Legendary Titan could be defeated at all. LGOW seems to be another test
experiment of what is possible in ED. Even that it is possible to defeat LGOW with the right classes
(TLM>TM) he seems to be exaggeratedly powerfull for all other classes than TLM.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 11/22/2015 20:25:22 >
DF Epic  Post #: 13
11/22/2015 22:43:04   
Daph Duck
Member

Dfo99 is kratos style and this is all just so petty and sad. Have you ever thought that maybe some bosses were not meant to be easy for everyone.
AQW Epic  Post #: 14
11/22/2015 23:10:12   
Thylek Shran
Member

quote:

Dfo99 is kratos style

That explains everything.

quote:

Have you ever thought that maybe some bosses were not meant to be easy for everyone.

Yes. Bosses are not meant to be easy at all.
DF Epic  Post #: 15
11/23/2015 13:58:40   
shadow.bane
Member

that was not a good way to talk kratos ! tbh thought he was a good guy now changed my whole idea about you :o such behavior gives u the loss of respect from other towards you .
and yes bosses are never meant to be easy , I have tough time defeating it die to high RNG but had no problems now :)

and not so many defeated him you can count them on a hand lol

Conqrr
Emolicious
Cosmic Emperor
Me (Bane.Hall0w)
Kratos style
Lord Machaar
R A C I N G
Deathnightmare
MapWarCyber

only 9 players correct me if am wrong .


< Message edited by shadow.bane -- 11/23/2015 14:01:49 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 16
11/23/2015 14:29:10   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

Just tell me how many Cyber Hunters, Bounty Hunters, Mercenaries and Blood Mages have defeated
one of the Legendary bosses without class change ?

This was asked long ago when Ranloth was still here and the first legendary boss was released (Legendary Titan). The answer was pretty simple, you don't need to defeat legendary bosses, defeating them will not grant you any advantage in PVP or NPC battles, defeating a legendary boss would mean a 3.5k rating points cheevo, rating points = stars, stars are a 100% cosmetic thing.

Such thing would be a problem if legendary bosses were included in missions or dropped weapons with cores, since none of this is happening, legendary fights remain just for players who have enough credits, time and ranks to invest in such fights, while totally being bored, or just looking for a challenge. Although, LGOW is featured in a mission where you get two swords, Phobos and Deimos, but both swords are coreless, nothing fancy.

However I don't agree with how legendary bosses are made, all the points I mentioned here ^ are logical, therefore nerfing LGOW wouldn't be necessary since no one is directly affected by the boss.
Yet I hope next time devs present a legendary boss, they look into our feedback (Not all classes can defeat the boss, time consumed, copy/paste of past bosses, fights being too long and boring and repetitive, etc...).

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 11/24/2015 14:20:54 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 17
11/25/2015 3:01:55   
Thylek Shran
Member

quote:

The answer was pretty simple, you don't need to defeat legendary bosses, defeating them will not grant you any advantage in PVP or NPC battles, defeating a legendary boss would mean a 3.5k rating points cheevo, rating points = stars, stars are a 100% cosmetic thing.

Your very wrong Machaar, its all about stars (rating points). So we have to defeat Legendary bosses
and I expect a fair chance as many days of challenging is not worth the 3.5k rating points as the most
achievements can be obtained ALOT less hardly.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 11/25/2015 3:03:37 >
DF Epic  Post #: 18
11/25/2015 13:29:00   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 ^Then wouldn't it be better to change the rating points on the cheevo?

The boss is clearly made to be hard. He's hard but people have still figured out how to beat him. If you're not satisfied with the rating points that the achievement gives for a boss so hard then it would make a LOT more sense to suggest a change to the rating points rather than to the difficulty of a boss that multiple people have already beaten.
Epic  Post #: 19
11/25/2015 14:58:08   
Lord Machaar
Member

@Thylek Shran:
quote:

its all about stars (rating points). So we have to defeat Legendary bosses

When you use "We", who are you referring to? It's all because of stars according to you not to me and many other players, stars do not affect the game's balance like ranks do.

And as Exploding Penguin mentioned, if you are not satisfied with amount of time/credits for such a small amount of rps, then why not adding more, to 4,5k for instance.

Otherwise nerfing the boss could've been more possible when no one defeated the boss, now almost 10 players have defeated him, so if a nerf is considered, compensate these players since they lost the same time and credits they lost, yet they didn't give up, so give us a credits compensation + a higher value of rps.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 11/26/2015 10:59:18 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 20
11/25/2015 16:42:41   
shadow.bane
Member

NVM

< Message edited by shadow.bane -- 11/25/2015 16:43:18 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 21
11/27/2015 0:51:27   
Thylek Shran
Member

@Machaar
quote:

Otherwise nerfing the boss could've been more possible when no one defeated the boss, now almost 10 players have defeated him, so if a nerf is considered, compensate these players since they lost the same time and credits they lost, yet they didn't give up, so give us a credits compensation + a higher value of rps.

Just because an amount of players already had defeated Boss-X or bought Item-X is a very
weak argument to prevent nerfs or granting a refund. Mistakes and unwanted disbalance
should be corrected at all circumstances as it is fatal to neglect them. The game would be
totally screwed now without nerfs in the past. Its now up to the devs to decide if LGOW is
balanced rightfully or not.

Also consider how many more players had tried to defeat the Legendary bosses and failed.
They used also alot credits/varium without getting noticed as they lack the record for the
achievement. Maybe they used even more as those who was successfull.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 11/27/2015 0:53:21 >
DF Epic  Post #: 22
11/27/2015 11:47:12   
Lord Machaar
Member

Who did even say that the boss is imbalanced, since defeating the boss grants you a 3.5k rating points cheevo, you are saying X legendary boss is balanced or not according to the following number= amounts of credits/rating points.
The boss gives a fair amount of rating points, 3.5k, there are certain cheevos that give the same amount of rating points but for less credits/time wasted, yet there is the other end of the story where certain cheevos give the same amount but for far more credits (time also for farming), for instance the credits sink cheevos (bacon and burger one), where you have to spend 1 million credits for a 5k rps cheevo, where the last upgrade 2.5k rating points requires 500k credits. According to your reasoning, this cheevo should be removed because it gives way less rating points for such an amount of credits, where as some other cheevos give way more.*

This isn't a logical point to base your opinion on, so apparently, it's invalid. And if you are saying LGOW should be removed due to balance issues, 10 players defeated him, from both classes. If we are going to say why only 2 classes defeated this boss, we should remove all legendary bosses.

The problem with some ED players is, they want to have it all, and devs have always gave this to their spoiled players, anything gets introduced in the game, it gets abused, for instance ranks, if this system was based from the beginning on PVP battle modes only, we wouldn't see players with 100k NPC wins now or 250 ranks already. Same goes for cheevos, missions and accomplishements in general. There should be challenges, as any other competitive game, so you can't have it all. The LGOW boss is here to prove this point.

*For those who say that the credits sink cheevos were introduced after gifting while players had tons of credits, well guess what, we are days away from gifting again, so this argument is also invalid.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 11/27/2015 11:52:32 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 23
11/27/2015 12:18:25   
shadow.bane
Member

@Thylec I have defeated it with normal weapons didn't use Azrael nor dread nor whatever ... this is no excuse u can beat with starter weapons as long as u have the right strategy ...
@machaar it is introduced after gifting and will be another credits sink achievement like burger and sushi as u can read the design note about it u should see it .

< Message edited by shadow.bane -- 11/27/2015 12:23:09 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 24
11/27/2015 12:29:03   
Therril Oreb
Legendary AdventureGuide!


 I'd like to ask everyone to get back on topic here. This thread is not about the gifting event and neither should this balance discussion become a discussion of what people can or cannot do.
Giving facts helps people discuss whether or not the boss is good or not. Giving personal statements of how you think it is helps nobody.
So I want to ask everyone to not turn this in a back and forth debate of "I could beat it, so you can too" or "I had trouble with it so it is too hard"

If you can give facts like "Unless I use skill A and skill B consistently, I never win due to him doing skill C and D making it a total of X damage that i cannot mitigate"
this discussion can become a lot more meaningful.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 25
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