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=DF= War Wave Variance

 
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11/14/2015 20:36:55   
shadow dragon666
Member

I know pretty much everyone loves a good war on DF, I myself included in that bunch lesser than some of our extreme friends of the modern age which isnt a bad thing power to those devoted and able people.

As of now we have
1. Basic Wave
2. Rare Wave
3. Catapult wave
4. Bombing wave.

3/4 work fine and change up the pace of wars and amazingly people can use these two to speed through faster than normal waves(Astounds me at times people can do that.)

Though what of 1/2? What about them....How could those be spiced up a bit perhaps or more utilized in some form or manor.
What I mean is something along these lines, look at our rare wave...What does it really do beside maybe shave a few seconds overall off the normal wave and give you a +1 to the rare counter on your page.

What if perhaps the rare wave had something actually really different beside just the 1 monster, an example...Perhaps 2 Defender Medals vs 1. Gives it more of a function and makes them even more fun to see as you're getting a bonus from it.

Another simple idea was something along the lines of an extreme wave or a mini boss wave depending.
An extreme wave could be as rare or maybe a little rarer than the normal Rare wave. It'd be set up similar to the normal wave have say 1.5* the normal HP and more damage yet it could count for 2 waves vs the normal 1.

Same as for a mini boss, we've had monsters like this in the past and they fit similar to a rare wave(could even count as a rare wave counter+1 to it) where the monster at hand has more HP and perhaps some extra skills like our old friend Bassault. This could give 1-2 waves counted as well.

So what do you think overall? Could basic waves be spiced up some? Or should we keep the same basic formula we have now with just the 4 styles as it is? Or Do you have some idea of your own that you'd like to explain why it could be fun to fight against.

As well please note this isn't just for suggestions it is a discussion on the monotony of waves being the same over with little variance. Meaning suggestions are welcome but there should be more than just it please.


Edit: FAQed! ~geo

< Message edited by geopetal -- 11/15/2015 0:09:16 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 1
11/14/2015 21:21:29   
Gold
Member

Have the basic waves vary from 3-6 monsters? Make the catapult waves not braindead?

_____________________________

I am Gold, for I am many.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 2
11/15/2015 0:06:06   
shadow dragon666
Member

How are the catapult waves brain dead?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 3
11/15/2015 0:25:49   
megakyle777
Member

I was just thinking on the Rare Wave myself:

One thing I really miss from them (Though others might not since it's a slight slowdown) is the comment at the beginning of it about the rare wave, like "That is one big deadwood" or "A Tng riding a Sneevil? Now I've seen it all."

As for what can be done with it... I'd like it to be some sort of Elite foe. I don't mean like harder to beat, ut something different from everything else that looks tougher. Right now, we have a bigger deadwood as our Rare Wave, but I say that's not good enough! Why use use something cooler looking, like a Heavily Armored Undead With A Cool Sword? Maybe a Deathknight like the Sir Malificent monster? Or maybe even something funny.

And maybe (I have not idea if this can be done) make it count for 2 or even 3 waves?
DF  Post #: 4
11/15/2015 0:37:36   
shadow dragon666
Member

The notes were funny, and it really didn't add a lot of time to the wave in truth, though I'm with you on if it's possible counting for more than one. Seeing as it's meant to be sort of a bonus that gives it a bit of a bonus.

Had another idea I was gonna ask about and see as well, in terms of the rare waves. I had thought of like a chest wave, where you find a chest that has A decent amount of Exp/Gold in it. While not totally like wowzers it's still a little something that adds a wave to the counter, and it's there for people who either 1. get lucky or 2. have been doing a lot of effort in the war front as well.

Though the elite foe sorta fits into the mini boss idea I had, either way I like that as well.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 5
11/15/2015 0:52:25   
Caststarter

Ether-knight of DF Q&A/EDBalance


*Sighs* Ash said this before... no. No. Waves can only count as one, no matter what. This also means that you can only get one DM at a time. Flash code is not able to exactly do those sort of things... Serenity Before the Storm was literally a war that was pushing the code to its limits. Let that sink in for a bit...
DF  Post #: 6
11/15/2015 1:25:20   
Gold
Member

quote:

How are the catapult waves brain dead?


Pick one angle, click 12 times.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
11/15/2015 1:32:46   
megakyle777
Member

Caststarter: very well, scarp that part of the idea then.

quote:

Had another idea I was gonna ask about and see as well, in terms of the rare waves. I had thought of like a chest wave, where you find a chest that has A decent amount of Exp/Gold in it. While not totally like wowzers it's still a little something that adds a wave to the counter, and it's there for people who either 1. get lucky or 2. have been doing a lot of effort in the war front as well.


I also like this, but I don't think it's possible. Either way I'm against seeing EXP in a chest for reasons of you don't find EXP in chests. It might even be nice to fit a reward in there, like the chance to buy a Shadow Shard, or a weapon of some kind. I mean we had wars where a chest was in the camp, just put it in a war wave instead. maybe a rare wave?
DF  Post #: 8
11/15/2015 2:32:29   
The ErosionSeeker
Member

Chests were in all war waves during the first Wargoth Rift war, and I think they were a rare occurrence during Warth of Xan (the First/Second/Third Frost whatever weapons)
DF AQW  Post #: 9
11/15/2015 8:10:01   
Brasca123
Member

the small talk at the beginning of the rare wave could appear at the top of the screen, like this it wouldn't make the character stop moving and reduce the speed of wave completion
AQ DF  Post #: 10
11/15/2015 8:48:06   
Grandpa Oz
How We Roll Winner
Nov14


It'd be fun if there were Very Rare Waves that you couldn't defeat. E.g. some oversized monster that one-shots you immidiately. Or an occasional wave of not 5 but 10 monsters. It wouldn't give out more DM or wavecount, but just spice up things a bit.
DF AQW  Post #: 11
11/15/2015 9:28:54   
  David the Wanderer

ArchKnight of DFGD


@Grandpa Oz: That's... not really a good idea. During wars we want to have the highest wavecount possible. A wave that doesn't increase your counter is... bad.
DF AQW  Post #: 12
11/15/2015 9:48:54   
  PyroPuppy
Adorable!


I've been pondering about the idea of an "heavy wave", some kind of counterpart to the rare wave which is many times a joke wave or a single monster that is not really different from any of the other monsters you can encounter. Such a wave will include only a single monster, which is kinda like a "mini-boss". The problem I see with such a wave is, of course, a decrease in the general WPM - harder waves means less waves per time unit.

Another option is to make a DA Dragon Wave, fighting extremely large monsters (or just oversized versions of the regular monsters, if that makes sense lore-wise). It could offer DAs a break from the regular waves. The problem with this suggestion is that it's limited only to DA players.

I do like the chest suggestion, having waves providing players randomly with extra large rewards definitely will feel more rewarding than just defeating monsters for their gold and EXP.

Caststarter: I know nothing about the programming of the game, but perhaps somehow such a system could be tricked? For an example, it is possible to collect one-time-clickable items throughout quests, maybe such items could spawn randomly in waves and be "merged" into DM in a special shop?

AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 13
11/15/2015 10:35:45   
  David the Wanderer

ArchKnight of DFGD


@PyroPuppy: I don't think that's possible. The only way you could collect items while playing a quest is if they were temporary items, and these can't be used in Merge Shops.

< Message edited by David the Wanderer -- 11/15/2015 10:36:17 >
DF AQW  Post #: 14
11/15/2015 10:59:57   
Brasca123
Member

the idea of a heavy wave is an interesting one, i think there is a way to make it work

the main problem with a heavy wave is the drop in WPM, so, to solve that, the game could actually force you to fight against 2-3 rare waves in a row after the heavy wave is defeated, compensating for the extra time spent on it, maybe a message of sorts could appear, like "the death of [monster name] made some enemies flee in terror"

the dragon wave is also nice, surely, it's a DA only option, but i don't think it's a problem per se, the most important thing is to give enough variety so that people aren't worn out that easily, if it can be done, than it's ok (of course it also means more work for staff, but if they have the spare time, i don't see why not)

on the waves giving more DM thing... there is a way, though that would need some rework on the DM items cost, it would work using a "super defender medal", the SDM would be the equivalent of 5 DMs (so, there would be a merge shop that would merge 5 DM into 1 SDM), the wave that is meant to give more than the normal amount of DMs would give one SDM instead

the problem with this suggestion is that item prices would need to be changed from DM to SDM, also, since we have no multi-merge system, it would make it really boring to merge 5000 DMs into 1000 SDMs...

so... i thought it was a nice idea but as i was writing i just noticed more and more problems with it... guess i should just scrap it, i'll keep the SDM idea in the post just for the sake of saying that there are some ways to trick the system as pyropuppy said
AQ DF  Post #: 15
11/15/2015 11:51:38   
Zork Knight
Member

Didn't we have a Trinket in the Rhubarb vs. Maz War that made waves count as two?

< Message edited by Zork Knight -- 11/15/2015 11:54:24 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 16
11/15/2015 12:22:27   
The ErosionSeeker
Member

@brasca you can go one step further, say we have harder waves that reward an SDM (5), there could even be a really really hard wave that rewards an Ultra Defender's Medal (25). The solution to tricking the multi-merge is to grant a conversion both from 5 DM to 1 SDM, but also from 25 DM to 1 UDM (or whatever other conversion rate)

Rhubarb vs Maz did have a wave doubler trinket, so saying that it's "absolutely impossible" is a little too bold.
DF AQW  Post #: 17
11/15/2015 13:57:23   
  PyroPuppy
Adorable!


As I'm not entirely sure how the drop system works, there is a chance making specific waves reward specific items would prove to be difficult. But, if it is possible, I think it will be easier to implement a system where Super / Mega DM actually merge into multiple regular DM (which I'm not entirely sure if possible as well, but who knows!). This way, a single wave effectively rewards you with multiple DM, and the staff don't need to create more items and shops.

I completely forgot about the Maz / Capt' trinket, so I guess there is a small chance that something can be done. Not entirely sure what, as perhaps the only thing that can be done is just counting every wave as 2 instead of 1, and not to increase the wave-value of specific waves. I won't be surprised if this is actually the case.

@David: This idea can be stretched a little further. I don't think I've seen it in game, but if it's possible, a shop that's inaccessible after opened could offer you to buy DMs. Or a shop that offers a miscellaneous item which's max capacity is 1 (which may be a little bit annoying for players as they'll have to convert it to a DM before they can obtain more of that item)
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 18
11/15/2015 14:47:20   
  David the Wanderer

ArchKnight of DFGD


Merging a "Super Defender Medal" for x Defender Medals... Not sure if it works. Merge Shops in DF usually work by having multiple Resources turn into one item, effectively making Resources an alternate currency. I don't know if the inverse is possible, code-wise, since I don't think shops are set up in a way that purchasing one item gives you multiple items.

Buying Defender Medals, however, should be right out of the window. The point of Defender Medals is to give an extra incentive to war. If you could just buy them, even if only after a certain percent of the war is completed, would wreck the "economy" of warring.

The trinket from the Maz/Rhubarb war indeed works by making any and each wave you do count as two. I'm not sure if a specific type of wave can do the same. We'd have to ask Verlyrus.
DF AQW  Post #: 19
11/15/2015 19:52:35   
shadow dragon666
Member

David/Brasc: I had thought of something similar over last night while I wasn't on, Though it was 1 of the new DM's for 2 normal DM's though yeah im not sure if it could be coded as such thinking it over which is a shame.


Pyro: We've had DA only runs in the past that have given access to special items so a DA only dragon wave isn't highly out of the question i'd wager. Since DA's don't have as many in game random perks as it used to(such as the DA only quests and all).

I also had forgotten about that trinket, too good catch Zork.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 20
11/15/2015 19:56:46   
flashbang
Member

I want to see the DA only waves from the Fire War where you ride your dragon against normal foot mobs. A footwave, but from dragonback.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 21
11/15/2015 20:18:01   
Brasca123
Member

@flashbang. well, it would be a good farming spot i guess, wouldn't make much difference from a WPM perspective though, it's essentially the same as a footwave with DmK, but well, we aren't talking about WPM but how to get rid of the boredom that is warring for most people... though i think that would be pretty boring as well... one shotting everything on dragonback is not that fun for me (catapult isn't fun either though, and i do use it a lot, so maybe it could work)
AQ DF  Post #: 22
11/15/2015 20:21:17   
shadow dragon666
Member

The dragon wave isn't to bad, it does break away from the normal stuff and people who aren't high enough level to use some of the tier 2+ Classes perhaps could use it to be quicker per-say.

Though that being said, it's always fun to be a giant dragon and go squash little war enemies xD even if it's only for a few waves and back to the norm.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 23
11/17/2015 5:54:21   
Rio3678
Member

quote:

How are the catapult waves brain dead?


obviously you haven't seen my catapulting skills.

_____________________________

Master of Light and Darkness
Rio Skyron
with Bianca, my blade of Destiny
theme song
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 24
11/19/2015 2:05:35   
shadow dragon666
Member

For a trinket I'm not sure if it could be coded as such but perhaps a trinket you can buy with defender medals? A good amount of them as well seeing as you'll be counting for 2 waves per each run. Basically a show of dedication or dedication over time being more toward the cause or just a simple person who can give their all in small amounts at one point getting it able to help do more as well.

I'd say 400-500 DM's if this sort of blanket trinket for wars could be done would be fair, what are others thoughts on the cost?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 25
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