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6/6/2016 10:44:44   
Lord Machaar
Member

I suggest that war prizes are announced before each war starts. The exact war prize that will be given to the winner side.
This way, whoever is spending varium or plays hard on each war do know what they are playing for. And not get lured by devs into thinking they are getting a complete set of war prize while in the end they get half a war prize, because of a reason or another.

If devs will try to make players participate in such useless and unfair wars, they better prepare good prizes for it. Not totally depend on guest artists to make a prize, then split it in half because one side didn't accept their loss. This is unacceptable.
MQ Epic  Post #: 1
6/6/2016 15:51:32   
Altador987
Member

Because no one is necessarily forced to use varium/play hard and still can recieve certain rewards I can't say i support this. While yes, i do feel like the wars are just meaningless distractions (they hardly even have a story now), this is in essence telling the gamemakers how to run their game.
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
6/6/2016 19:45:04   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

Because no one is necessarily forced to use varium/play hard and still can recieve certain rewards.


To correctly rephrase your sentence. No one is forced to use varium/play hard and receive a certain reward, with the exception that said reward is not the same that is given to someone who played hard and spent varium to earn it.

We are speaking about a feature called "War System".
This feature consists of 2 alignments playing against each other to control a region.
The winner gets a war prize + 10k creds + 10 tokens.
The loser gets 10k creds and 10 tokens.
It's as simple as 1, 2 and 3.

The winner side played hard, has won the war, deserves a war prize. Period.

No one has said that you should play hard or use varium to receive certain "rewards". Although such rewards can be given in a time isolated from the time where war prizes are given. Giving the same exact war prize to the losing side kills the soul purpose of war, competitivity. Makes people wait till the end, quit playing the war and whine for a code prize. Because, well, they didn't understand how war works, and end up leaving the finisher objective till the end.

Problem is, devs end up changing their decisions after getting affected by players' opinions and whining. We all know that exile players are more than legion players. Hence why you never see legion players crying after Exile players win. On the contrary, when legion wins, exile players flip over. Cry and whine, and wait for their hero, Nightwraith, to come and make a code prize of the exact same war prize. Has this ever happened when exile won? No never.

When Legion end up winning, even though they are outnumbered and just lost the last war due to the Pay2Win aspect of the war, we end up splitting up the war prize (Which was given to an effort made by said alignment).

When you chill through out the whole war, and quit at the last second for undertaking the wrong plan to win the war (Leaving finisher objective till the end), you deserve to lose the war. Exile are like sheep. They lack organization and they lack knowledge. They end up winning most of the wars because they outnumber legions.

Now taking in consideration all this. No one should get rewarded for losing the war, exile or legion.

Devs felt that they should compensate the losing side. I seen some tweets about that which could have altered their decision.
I'm also expecting a prize code next war when legion loses. Because well, according to several tweets of exile players:
https://twitter.com/EDBrooooED/status/739613033643802624
quote:

#edcodes This war wasnt fair at all, can we all get prize, is not like u guys give a dam* anyways @Titan_EpicDuel @Nightwraith_ED @Charfade

https://twitter.com/Destruct__/status/739615329916063745
quote:

#edcodes @Titan_EpicDuel @Nightwraith_ED Give the prize for both aligments, Thats is a good justification for dont give rally to exile...

If devs actually split the war prize based on these opinions. Then it would be a sad thing. I would really love to know if devs have given up on war system as well, given it's the last feature in the game.

quote:

this is in essence telling the gamemakers how to run their game.

Devs are not gods. All humans keep learning till they die. So are devs. They learn each day and everyday till they die.
We are here to suggest ideas to better up the game, they are welcomed to accept it or refuse it. But according to the past events. I think the devs have accepted suggestion to change the ways they are running their game with, ofcourse, all in the favour of making the game a better place.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 6/6/2016 21:11:53 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 3
6/7/2016 10:50:34   
Altador987
Member

what is your point in all this (referring to you above argument)? I wasn't arguing the fact that the winners deserve a prize that wasn't your original statement... Going off your original statement the problem was with the prize itself and whether you (or any player) deemed it worth working for. I never said Devs are gods nor did I hint to that but let's grow up a little, the prize is an incentive and a risk, just like the arcade tokens: you may or may not get something you want or deem good, however you do know there are certain prizes obtainable. With the war you know you're getting tokens/credits simply for playing. If you put in the hard work for the prize that's the risk you choose to take, if you're upset with the risk, I understand but i don't support the idea that they should take the risk factor out. You're not forced to take the risk and while I hate Pay2win ideals, they do and should make money someway somehow as they are providing a service to all who play it. Your above argument about a war prize vs half a war prize is at best really only your opinion. If they decide the war prize is a lil gun they can, it's their game. Do i suggest they do that? no. Will i die if they do? no, i knew what i was risking when i did it and understood the possible disappointment if the prize isn't what i wanted.
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
6/7/2016 11:09:41   
Optimise
Member

quote:

Altador987 wrote:

Because no one is necessarily forced to use varium/play hard and still can recieve certain rewards I can't say i support this.

Correct, no is forcing us to use varium or play hard during these wars. No one is forcing us to play this game... what kind of logic is this? I'm a bit baffled by this bizarre and strange reasoning of yours. Since we are on the same page and talking about force, no one necessarily forced the developers to "troll" us the way they did today. I assume you haven't been playing as of late (as your reasoning/post implies), and are therefore unaware of the recent war result.

From what I can understand, you are saying one can still get certain rewards without the need of playing hard or using varium. If one does not play hard how can he expect his alignment to win. The losing side does and should certainly not get rewarded from losing, that is the concept behind winning and losing. I can provide perpetual reasons about how rewards can persuade one to play more, gives players an incentive, and many other things about the war and game structure itself but am feeling truly generous tonight and will gladly and mercifully spare everyone from having to read a large, extensive post - meaning I will try to keep this short.

quote:

Altador987 wrote:

While yes, i do feel like the wars are just meaningless distractions (they hardly even have a story now), this is in essence telling the gamemakers how to run their game.


I concur that wars are somewhat dull and boring with the current war system being somewhat repetitive (and doesn't require much effort from developers), but this war system is all we've got to keep us going if anything. This point is self-explanatory if you use it to look at the recent debacle as briefly described in the post above; the winning side were rather promised/confirmed to receive both the sword and mutating weapon.

The developers decided to reward the winning alignment the (energy) mutating gear only whilst contradicting themselves by doing so, and then went ahead to pacify the Exile alignment by providing 3 codes at different times containing the energy and physical sword - of which Legion were supposed to get as the war prize, and physical version of the mutating gear. Ultimately, the winning side have not received an exclusive prize for winning the war as pertained by the logic of wars. You could say Legion really didn't receive any prize at all, seeing as Exile got the same stuff. It is like working and then not getting paid accordingly. It doesn't matter if one has worked hard or not, it is however clear everyone worked together to achieve victory - in result players aligned with Legion received a slap in the face, whereas Exiles were given a pacifier.

You make it seem as if we are actually telling them how to run their game, we are not asking them to donate half their income/revenue to charity. Players create the community of the game just as developers create the game. The game is created for us, regardless of whether it was made by gods, humans, or even aliens. This game would not exist without the players, and it also wouldn't exist without the developers. The developers cannot deny that they have come this far because of the community, but it can also be said that this game is what it currently is due to the community. If you would like further elaboration of this point then please do ask.

I can sense a few individuals coming over here to say something along the lines of "it's funny seeing free players squirm" or simply going off-topic. I'd like to point out that using ad hominem in your posts (generally speaking) will not contribute positively towards discussions and will give birth to more bad behavior. This game can possibly grow from actual constructive criticism. Now let's move on, I'm not understanding your logic to be fair, "it's their game" they can do whatever they want. Going by that reasoning let's say the developers delete ones entire inventory for no reason at all, that individual then says "it is their game, so I am fine with my inventory being deleted" - this logic is simply unethical. Feedback and criticism exist in this world for a reason. I'm going to refrain from addressing your somewhat confusing claim about P2W - they do not have to necessarily make a game P2W to generate money, but anyhow this is an entirely different topic and should not be discussed here.

EDIT: I didn't see your latest reply as I was writing this one. I have read your response and believe my post having made a few edits here and there, still addresses your reply.

< Message edited by Optimise -- 6/7/2016 14:56:43 >

_____________________________

Just because you're both but neither doesn't mean you're none
Post #: 5
6/7/2016 12:00:17   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

what is your point in all this (referring to you above argument)? I wasn't arguing the fact that the winners deserve a prize that wasn't your original statement... Going off your original statement the problem was with the prize itself and whether you (or any player) deemed it worth working for.

If you have played the game recently, you would have been able to relate my OP with what has happened recently. But I will put you in the situation to find the link between what I said in OP, what I said in the reply and what is going on in-game.
The devs through their guest artist have confirmed the winner said will get said war prize. http://puu.sh/piPOi/00bc8634a3.png. So far all good. That was announced 6 - 7 days before the war has ended, me as a player, played based on that information, waiting to get that said war prize if I win.

Eventually Legion did win because Exile players, for the 5th time used the wrong strategy. Even tho being outnumbered, legion won. Exile players weren't happy, they whined, till here all good. But the reason why they whined and devs listend to them is quite outrageous. They accused the war of being rigged while devs have intentionally inhibited war rallies to occur. Nightwraith's response? Split the war prize to confirm these allegations. Reason? I think the guest artist intentionally wanted his friends to win them. http://puu.sh/pk2cx/c6cc7b8aea.png The guy even felt sorry for his bro that devs have rigged the war. Hence he thought that making the P version of the war prize for his friend to enjoy.

The one million dollar question. Was there even a point off Infernal war? If everyone in the end will get the P version of the war prize, plus 2 swords. I wouldn't be as much offended if Legion actually was given a sword (E or P) and the mutation weapon (E or P), but guess what happened? Devs ended up giving one mutation weapon to Legion. NW ended up giving prize codes of the rest of the war prize 3 hours after the war has ended. Me, personally as a player who stayed up the night to help legion win, I went to sleep, only to come back and see Exile players who quitted mid-war take 2 prizes (which are the both swords E and P). And legion players, what did they get? They only got to know that they shouldn't trust devs anymore. They hibernate for months working on BB, once they come to ED, they screw it over.

As a legit player, I feel deep offense by the way devs interracted with the situation. Do you think I would gave a flying duck if I used alts and bots the whole war, like vast majority did and no one could do a thing about it (If you need more details, contact me)? I didn't, and as a player who played legitimately, I deserve a war prize. This is not new, this is not strange. When exile won their wars, they got their war prize, and no one whined about it. Did we get a P version of something they have got? But we all can tell that the game currently is comprimised (guest team included) and devs are unable to solve it. A simple solution would be shutting the game down.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 6/9/2016 13:52:00 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 6
6/7/2016 15:26:19   
Lord Zanza
Member
 

 https://twitter.com/Nightwraith_ED/status/739817409230602244
Post #: 7
6/7/2016 15:32:34   
Optimise
Member

@Lord Zanza - I would highly encourage you to read my post above so you understand the current situation, and main reason as to why this suggestion has been made and how it relates to affecting the game, etc... However, to enlighten you on the tweet you linked - it was made after the war concluded, meaning it was tweeted after it was confirmed that both the sword and mutating weapon would be given as war prize.

< Message edited by Optimise -- 6/7/2016 15:35:00 >
Post #: 8
6/7/2016 15:38:24   
Lord Zanza
Member
 

 It was tweeted by a guest artist.
Post #: 9
6/7/2016 15:44:11   
Optimise
Member

@Lord Zanza - I assume you are referring to the confirmation tweet. The tweet was indeed by a Guest Artist, and the Guest Artist in question is a member of staff. If you have read my post above, you would notice I am not directly accusing the artist - but rather the way things were delivered. The statements made in my post still stand and you have not addressed anything.
Post #: 10
6/7/2016 15:50:41   
Lord Zanza
Member
 

 You may think what you want, as a guest artist does not make decisions about putting weapons into games. as Nightwraith said- it was not his plan- it may have been Assassin's, but not his. For instance, when has a war prize been two weapons/armors/bikes that were given freely? None.
Post #: 11
6/7/2016 15:59:39   
Optimise
Member

Correct. However, the developers assigned this task to the artist with the reasons provided. Regardless of their position, the person in question is still part of the team - meaning decisions such as this one are discussed with him, and everyone else in the team. Under what criteria was it decided that the legion were to be prized the mutating weapon instead of the sword? Regardless though, my point still stands - please read my first post so you can understand the main point behind my reasoning, it has nothing to do with whether guest artists makes decisions or not.

< Message edited by Optimise -- 6/7/2016 16:01:31 >
Post #: 12
6/7/2016 15:59:43   
8x
Member

I'm sure that when AO said "yes" a week ago, he thought that both items would be given out as the war prize. But, in the end, the final decision is made by the devs (I doubt they even knew that AO said "yes" a week ago.) (Exit: I read the post above this one, never mind, just ignore this part of my post.)

I agree that what happened is unfair and that they should have given the Legion both weapons (all four weapons to Legion if you ask me). I know this one dirty exile that got the Infernal Sword E and he hasn't been in a battle for 700+ days. He's called "8x", if any of you are familiar with him. And he didn't even need the sword, since he already has Infernal Slayer, which is really similar to it (dare I say almost identical?). Exile scum...

< Message edited by 8x -- 6/7/2016 16:08:10 >
Epic  Post #: 13
6/7/2016 16:18:25   
Lord Zanza
Member
 

 I have read your post long before posting my own and in fact find your ranting amusing.

< Message edited by Lord Zanza -- 6/7/2016 16:22:28 >
Post #: 14
6/7/2016 17:55:59   
Optimise
Member

@Lord Zanza - I do not want to go on a back and forth battle of pointless arguing about whether you've understood anything at all, but that being said I will go ahead address your ridiculous claim of my post being ranting which is rather rude and disrespectful. I would ask that you refrain from throwing around words of which you will be unable to justify. I would like to provide the definition of rant before we proceed onto further matters, directly from a dictionary:
quote:

Definition of Rant

to speak or shout in a loud, uncontrolled, or angry way, often saying confused or silly things

Example:

He's always ranting (on) about the government
Source
I do not see where I was ranting (or venting as some say) as I believe everything said in my post is logically contributing towards the topic at hand and brings a (if not many) debatable point(s). If you have truly read my post then you'd have noticed I said using ad hominem in your responses is pointless and certainly does not contribute positively to the discussion. I would also encourage you to read through this entire thread, here - comments made by guest artists can be interpreted as official (as stated by Therril Oreb - our former PR liaison) and no other staff would need to confirm it. 8x for one, has understood the true point of my post or this topic in general - whether he's being sarcastic really doesn't matter.

You simply passing off my post as being ranting does not really substantiate your point if you have any to begin with - you are simply dismissing every post without evidently reading. Whereas I am being formal, polite, productive, and constructive with my posts - of which you have dismissed as ranting. While my opinions may be antithetical to yours, my post contains facts and when one dismisses facts without facing it - it goes to show how weak their reasoning is. That being said I would very much appreciate it if you could face these posts with facts, or even opinions based off facts and do so in an appropriate and respectful manner - because at the moment you are doing nothing but losing your own credibility.

< Message edited by Optimise -- 6/7/2016 19:21:08 >
Post #: 15
6/7/2016 20:13:21   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

Hey Everyone,

It seems there's been some confusion with the authority and responsibilities of members of the Guest Staff on the Forums. First of all, the members of the Guest team currently have a title on the Forums to indicate that they are indeed a verified member of the team. If you have any concerns of questions about who is part of the team, please PM any ED AK, Forum Moderator, or Forum Admin.

The Forums are a place to create a community. While we all love when the members of the ED staff comment and chime in on the forums, they are in no means REQUIRED to do so. It's our privilege that they join us here.

The Guest team members are staff members. They have the authority to comment on behalf of the developers and deserve to treated with respect. No matter how frustrated or upset you are about EpicDuel's development, harassment of the staff is not acceptable. Such flaming will result in disciplinary action as well as discourage the team from using the forums.

We understand that EpicDuel has a passionate and opinionated community. However, please make sure you express yourself in an appropriate and respectful manner.

Thanks for your cooperation,

Battle Elf and Therril

Taken from: http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=22048089&mpage=1&key=

@Zanza
I would seriously like to thank you for allowing us to elaborate more on this topic. If not for you, I wouldn't have to dig for this. You may or may not read, in the end, it's directed to other people who will actually read it. You may also read the whole thread to enlighten yourself. We can speak about the matter when you are enough informed about both the game and the topic we are talking about.

ON-topic:
I feel betrayed while believing what we are being told. When you get stabbed in the back by a confirmed and an official representator of the game, it is lack of professionalism. Something that the devs have lacked for quite awhile now, and may result in the failure of their upcoming projects.

I won't elaborate more on the topic. I no longer acknowledge the presence of a guest team.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 6/7/2016 20:15:51 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 16
6/7/2016 20:49:44   
Altador987
Member

well apparently a lot has happened since i responded this morning but to both that replied, I play regularly... more specifically daily. I can understand that you may disagree with my viewpoint that's completely fine but i'd suggest not trying to discredit my opinion by stating "you must not play much" it is dismissive and, in this case, morbidly false.

@Machaar I understand your frustration (i'm referring to your immediate response btw) but from the sounds of your argument you're not actually concerned with knowing what the prize is but rather a fairness in war prizes. (correct me if I'm wrong). which IMO is a much stronger argument and worth supporting. However we're focused on specifically showing what prizes are to be obtained, I don't believe that will add much to the game itself which is why i dont support it...not against it...but not for it either...or rather i don't see a need for it.

@Optimise, I don't see what's so bizarre about my point of view. I think it's a lil childish to look at the devs as trolls I understand if you feel you're not getting what you want but in a discussion like this it doesn't really do much to add to your point. Also you broke the sentences into 2 points of discussion it seems, however they weren't separate thoughts (I probably should of put a semicolon), because i feel that if you simply play regularly you can eventually get to the prize (I get to the second highest simply by happenstance) i do not support the idea. I really wasn't trying to argue the validity of the war system in general, so I'm sorry you ended up delving into that part of the discussion.

I don't see the devs as almighty gods, however i feel this topic is rather minor and not really a "problem" as opposed to a preference, and even still there's a simple solution of not spending money. I'd also like to point out that the objective of the war is to win and so i assume that the war prize is therefore (in the devs eyes) considered an added bonus as opposed to a specific reward, otherwise they might as well make it available to all who participated and put in even a little influence. (this is of course my opinion)
AQW Epic  Post #: 17
6/7/2016 21:06:50   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

@Machaar I understand your frustration (i'm referring to your immediate response btw) but from the sounds of your argument you're not actually concerned with knowing what the prize is but rather a fairness in war prizes. (correct me if I'm wrong). which IMO is a much stronger argument and worth supporting. However we're focused on specifically showing what prizes are to be obtained, I don't believe that will add much to the game itself which is why i dont support it...not against it...but not for it either...or rather i don't see a need for it.


Knowing the prize does affect the productivity of each player in X or Y war. The war prize can be a vehicle made by guest artist or an armor. I don't know which one matters the most to you, but to me, and most players, an armor would serve better causes (PVP).
My suggestion hits 2 birds with one stone. Knowing the war prize and deciding to maintain fairness (Not last time changes to give a minor war prize to the winning side for a reason or another).
For your information, this is the first time to ever happen. Giving P version of the same war prize as a code prize, shortly after the war ends, alongside 2 swords. Between you and me, which one is used, class specific weapon or mutation weapon (With the exception of hunters)? Wouldn't it be more fair to give the swords as a war prize hence targeting while beneficing a wider population of region players or giving a class specific weapon that no one uses either ways.)

quote:

I don't see the devs as almighty gods, however i feel this topic is rather minor and not really a "problem" as opposed to a preference, and even still there's a simple solution of not spending money. I'd also like to point out that the objective of the war is to win and so i assume that the war prize is therefore (in the devs eyes) considered an added bonus as opposed to a specific reward, otherwise they might as well make it available to all who participated and put in even a little influence. (this is of course my opinion)


For you, the war prize and the war system is not a big deal. That's your opinion, and one is obliged to change it, nor are you obliged to change it. Although, logic implies that, when the war system is the last and only active feature out there which is also PVP-dependent (The purpose of the game), it indeed has a huge importance in the continuation of this game. Believe it or not, this war is what keeping tens if not hundreds of players playing this game, without it, what do you suggest players would do? Play the arcade? Hate each other in vendbot w0 while criticizing the game? Simply the game no longer has side features to back up the war system. You can tell that by looking at the negativity of players in the breaks between wars, when they have nothing to do.

Now that the war system role in the game is cleared, let's move on to the war prize. A war system could be there, but no one would be interested in playing it if there is a thing to make it competitive. That thing is the war prize. The war prize is as important as the war itself, and hence as important as if we lose it, the game will be dead. Compromising the war prize means compromising the war itself, killing competivity and the game alongside it. You think I will be as much interested in the game as before after this incident? putting effort to win a well deserved war prize and end up getting half of it, because oh well, devs rigged the war and they had to compensate another alignment (which is totally not true).

If you think that the war system is a secondary thing, that's your right, but the reality says otherwise. By the word "paying the game", I mean actually playing and doing PVP, investing enough time and effort to care enough about it. I can log in each day, do 2 - 3 wins and log out. That's not what I meant with the sentence (Play the game).

I would also like to thank you for your civilized way of expressing your opinion. Unlike some others.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 6/7/2016 21:17:23 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 18
6/7/2016 21:21:12   
Altador987
Member

I understand your viewpoint but frankly, the devs had told us to our faces that this game isn't even a priority so with that in mind i'm not convinced them showing what the prizes are would pressure them into fairness. I'm aware this is the first time this has happened (i've been here quite a few years) and yes it would be fair to do exactly what you're suggesting... like i said if fairness is specifically what you're arguing, i support it all the way, however for me, i never like to suggest an idea with the assumption that it won't be used with ulterior motives/loophole mindset.

For me, i play PVP regardless, i did not get on for factions, i did not get on for wars, i did not get on for fame, or leaderboard or any of that. Those mean nothing to me as they can be achieved through unoriginal/paid means, and personally i get no satisfaction from it. However I do care for the enjoyment of all players and because of this i do care about the war, leaderboard, so on and so forth. Frankly the war system, especially the one that just passed, is no more than a decoy... it simply happened. Personally, because i get on regardless as i love the game as well as the possibilities it holds (even if it's in a current ditch(understatement)), so the war does nothing for me, other than a bonus. I have spent varium trying to get a war prize and missed it, but for me it's never that serious. I'd be much more interested in balance fixes as i feel that would certainly bring back old players to at the very least test it out.

I should specify that when i personally say i don't support an idea that doesn't automatically mean i'm against it either, if i support something i believe it's necessary, if i'm against something entirely i usually try to specify but in this case i just don't see it as something significant (the prize visibility not the fairness I'm ALL about the fairness).

AQW Epic  Post #: 19
6/7/2016 21:53:34   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

I understand your viewpoint but frankly, the devs had told us to our faces that this game isn't even a priority so with that in mind i'm not convinced them showing what the prizes are would pressure them into fairness. I'm aware this is the first time this has happened (i've been here quite a few years) and yes it would be fair to do exactly what you're suggesting... like i said if fairness is specifically what you're arguing, i support it all the way, however for me, i never like to suggest an idea with the assumption that it won't be used with ulterior motives/loophole mindset.

It's not rocket science really, it's taking 5 minutes from their super duper busy schedule. It's not even them making the war prize, it's the guest artist. Simply make a tweet and announce it.
If fairness matters the most you, it also matters to me, but also knowing what I will get can or can not affect my productivity next war. Devs can clearly affect the productivity of players with demanding guest artists of making good war prizes.
In the end, they are war prizes, they will be given to a large population of the game, many will get the chance to say a thing about it. It's not a random item that was added to a shop where you either choose to buy it or not. Guest artists are still working on their skills, I respect that, but they should also spent more time making things that players would love to play for. ED players (Me at least) got used to fine items, you can check my inventory to see what I'm talking about. We aren't asking guest artists to make similar great art, but the fact that they are mainly making coreless weapons, it adds more pressure, making players judge the item solely on the "art" part. Unlike an item with a core (Azrael Anguish), the sidearm is used not just because it looks marvelous, but because there is a core attached to it, which if it is attached to any other sidearm, I would still end up using it. That's not the case for coreless items.

quote:

For me, i play PVP regardless, i did not get on for factions, i did not get on for wars, i did not get on for fame, or leaderboard or any of that. Those mean nothing to me as they can be achieved through unoriginal/paid means, and personally i get no satisfaction from it. However I do care for the enjoyment of all players and because of this i do care about the war, leaderboard, so on and so forth. Frankly the war system, especially the one that just passed, is no more than a decoy... it simply happened. Personally, because i get on regardless as i love the game as well as the possibilities it holds (even if it's in a current ditch(understatement)), so the war does nothing for me, other than a bonus. I have spent varium trying to get a war prize and missed it, but for me it's never that serious. I'd be much more interested in balance fixes as i feel that would certainly bring back old players to at the very least test it out.

You would't really see me giving too much attention to this if I haven't played enough and in a legit way. (You can check the leaderboards of the last war). Players are different, you may or may not like competition in-game, maybe you are intersted in one aspect of the game and not another. But the thing is, there is always that thing that the majority are interested about, I'm here speaking about the war system, which I wouldn't say everyone chose to be interested about it, but some quite were obliged to be interested about it since there aren't side features to cover it up.

quote:

I should specify that when i personally say i don't support an idea that doesn't automatically mean i'm against it either, if i support something i believe it's necessary, if i'm against something entirely i usually try to specify but in this case i just don't see it as something significant (the prize visibility not the fairness I'm ALL about the fairness).

It's really the same thing. If you are going to adopt a decision, it is near impossible that said decision will have direct outcomes and only direct outcomes. Collateral outcomes will occur in most cases. In this situation, revealing the war prize will indeed make sure everyone will be getting their promised war prize, but also let players know what they are playing for. This way the ED devs can be more clear about the war system, not just their game. Ofcourse they said they stopped working on the game, in a way that new content will not be introduced. They did not say they will fully stop working on the game, hence leaving it fall apart (and by that I mean neglect the already existing content).

EDIT: Corrected some typos.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 6/7/2016 22:22:32 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 20
6/7/2016 23:15:28   
Optimise
Member

quote:

Altador987 wrote:

@Optimise, I don't see what's so bizarre about my point of view. I think it's a lil childish to look at the devs as trolls I understand if you feel you're not getting what you want but in a discussion like this it doesn't really do much to add to your point. Also you broke the sentences into 2 points of discussion it seems, however they weren't separate thoughts (I probably should of put a semicolon), because i feel that if you simply play regularly you can eventually get to the prize (I get to the second highest simply by happenstance) i do not support the idea. I really wasn't trying to argue the validity of the war system in general, so I'm sorry you ended up delving into that part of the discussion.

It is indeed childish to look at the developers as "trolls", and to clarify my saying of that - I was certainly not calling or looking at the devs as trolls. The word "troll" was wrapped around by apostrophes, implying it is not a word that I use or would use - it was or has been used by some players here and there due to this recent ruckus, and I was simply expressing those feelings here.

I did separate the sentences, but it was simply out of habit. I usually break down posts (analyse, understand, list ideas that can relate, expand on each point, etc... resulting in my posts usually ending up quite long and extensive), and I happen to have quoted the two sentences separately. My post there were not separate thoughts either, anyone can read it once again as a whole excluding the quotes. It's just something I do, sometimes. I also purposely left some loose ends and did not express my own verdicts too explicitly. I wrote about the current situation, and it can be decided by you (the reader) as to whether it's right or wrong.

It can be said that I am not getting what I want but then I honestly am not really wanting the war prize, so you really can't make that assumption. It's not as if the winning side wanted a car and were given a sword instead, but rather the developers promised something that ended up being not given. I honestly do not care about war prizes too much because frankly speaking every gear is pretty much the same (excluding art) unless new cores are included which as we all know doesn't happen very often.

I do not disagree with your thought and reasoning there, it is indeed without a doubt possible to end up getting the prize even if you do not play regularly, having also mentioned this in my first post. That being said the main point is, it was disrespectful of the developers to do this and was certainly unfair for the winning side.

quote:

Altador987 wrote:

I don't see the devs as almighty gods, however i feel this topic is rather minor and not really a "problem" as opposed to a preference, and even still there's a simple solution of not spending money. I'd also like to point out that the objective of the war is to win and so i assume that the war prize is therefore (in the devs eyes) considered an added bonus as opposed to a specific reward, otherwise they might as well make it available to all who participated and put in even a little influence. (this is of course my opinion)

This topic relates to the war system. You may see it as "minor" but to the developers or community's eyes it may be something major as it's the only feature that is sticking the players together and motivating them - player retention. If the war had not been active you would see a even worse server count. I agree that the war prize is an added bonus (in anybodies eyes really), however when that added bonus is being manipulated with it can be somewhat disrespectful to the players.

Revealing the war prize before the war begins will firstly prevent such uproars from occurring, uproars that sever the trust between players. Fairness would not have come under question if the war prize had been revealed via design notes (or even twitter) fully detailing as to what the winning side will be receiving (but it wasn't this time), meaning if the prize is revealed it will result in fairness as we aren't being double crossed.

I for one feel that they should firstly focus on fixing the PvP aspects of this game such as balance. It is however clear that we're unfortunately stuck with what we have at the moment, and the war cycle will be recycled until the developers decide to get back to this game in a few months or years time. This suggestion is for what we currently have, or will have in this broken environment for the foreseeable future of ED if it truly has one.

Good reasoning and points have been brought about here and there on how this suggestion can have a positive affect, and I agree with most of them. You are entitled to your opinions, and it is a pleasure to be discussing the idea more thoroughly like this with someone who understands and reads posts. I would ask Lord Zanza to take notes of the discussion between the individuals here.

< Message edited by Optimise -- 6/7/2016 23:55:22 >
Post #: 21
6/8/2016 2:00:07   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 First of all, I need to clarify that I am no longer a staff member (retired due to increasing commitments) and that my views do not reflect those of the EpicDuel staff.

I support Machaar's suggestion - announcing the war prize before the war would encourage player activity and spending. Certainty means business confidence means increased spending - standard economics.

In practice, however, there may be unforeseen constraints. The promotional tweet itself may take just a few minutes, but the artwork may not be ready before the war. Or perhaps NW/ Charfade may make significant changes to the artwork for aesthetic or pragmatic reasons. In an ideal world all these problems should be addressed and resolved before the war, but the ED team faces a stubborn shortage of resources and manpower.

Nonetheless, I think that the ED team does need better communication and coordination, and Machaar's suggestion is a simple step towards that. Beyond that, solid procedures need to be implemented for better teamwork, PR and crisis management.

Post #: 22
6/8/2016 12:02:39   
8x
Member

@Optimise
For the record, I wasn't being sarcastic. :)

Twitter prize codes were always a bad idea. I thought devs had learned that by now (since they stopped giving out codes for a while). Deciding to use the rest of the set as promotional weapons was also very unwise idea, I can only hope that they put more thought into these things in the future.

Silver Sky does make a fair point, they can't show you the prize if it hasn't been created yet.
Epic  Post #: 23
6/8/2016 12:25:09   
Altador987
Member

@ Optimise & Lord

Both of your responses have been read, and it has been a pleasure discussing differing opinions with you!
AQW Epic  Post #: 24
6/8/2016 12:59:53   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

Silver Sky does make a fair point, they can't show you the prize if it hasn't been created yet.

There are quite few guest artists out there, talented and more than willing to showcase their art. We are not necessarily asking for the war prize to be shown in its final state (The guest artist can mention that), I'm sure any guest artist will start working on the war prize before the war starts, not 3 days before it ends.

Wars sometimes take up to 14 days, announcing the war prize in the first 4 - 5 days will be also acceptable. As long as no one has played hard for 14 days, and in the end gets surprised with a change in the war prize, which is totally not acceptable.

The funny thing is, the prize codes they gave were given shortly after the war ended, me and few other players from my faction stayed up a little bit late until the main objective was destroyed. And then most went to sleep as the war has ended in a late time for most legion players, who did not quit and started whine like some other players did. When most legion players came back, the 2 prize codes of the two swords, that one of them was meant to be the war prize, were expired, leaving legion players with a prize far worst than the code prize. That's called stabbing in the back.

quote:

Both of your responses have been read, and it has been a pleasure discussing differing opinions with you!
It's quite unfortunate that devs tend to listen to players' opinions via Twitter, which are mostly expressed in an unconstructive way, and most of them were accusing devs of rigging the war. Was pleasure talking to you as well.

We are not fortune enough to have individuals who are professional enough to care about civilized ways of expressing opinions. For them, if you don't show your frustration with hate and curses, you don't deserve attention.

But now what is done has been done, they refuse to fix it and they refuse to say a thing about it. But lesson is learned, on many levels.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 6/8/2016 13:02:56 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 25
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