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10/20/2016 0:53:11   
Æon
The Darklight Hero


Well, AQW is more gameplay (if you can call it that) and item-based, so a solid, unbroken story is a lot harder to come by.
Especially with all the breaks in-between story releases. Time is divided up between holidays, birthdays, and even random events (the stick of butter thing, the chicken war).

The thing about AQW is that it's a live game. The primary breadwinner of the company, even.
While you can afford to set aside a few weeks in DF to spell out a fantastic story, in AQW you have to deal with:

—The fact that it's a multiplayer game.
With a few hundred paying customers, the company can't afford to NOT have an interactive (or at least somewhat meaningful) release each week. If something were to jive the wrong way with their customers, they'd lose money fast. Which is lame, because I'd love for the company to set aside a week or two—maybe even the first week of each month—to address major bugs, glitches, and even revamp old areas of the game.
Unlike a static game like DF, where you can play offline and enjoy things at your leisure, AQW thrives on new, "interesting" content each week—which doesn't always include a story.

—Asset Building
In DF, you can easily build a cutscene-only quest with slightly-edited art assets and lots and lots of text. You can't do that in AQW.
Sure, we could get away with reusing some of our stuff—but a lot of kids wouldn't want to sit through tons of "boring" dialogue without moving their characters around and punching innocent monsters—even at the cost of alienating players like yourselves, who'd enjoy a a nice story.
And even for a team like ours, it takes a while to have the necessary assets built in time—specially for background scenery and new monsters & NPCs. If an ongoing story is ever broken up between releases, it's usually because we needed a "break" to get the physical assets flushed out in time. Not to mention we have to get approval for them, and have everything tested...
Now for the cutscenes...ugh. The cutscenes are what really get the story across in AQW—but they take a REALLY long time to animate—even for just one. Ghost spends the entire week, up until the release goes live, working on the cutscenes for that week. So he doesn't have any time to get a head start on the next week's cutscenes, not with all the music and stuff he has to create as well.
Adding to that, scripts need to be trimmed down HEAVILY (dialogue > action) in order to make things easier on him. If anyone of you entered the Design-a-Release contest last year, you'll remember how that was emphasized with the sample script.
Shorter, less detailed cutscenes means you get less of the story across—and you can only be so creative with the quest text and NPC dialogue. And a cutscene-only release in AQW, like in DragonFable? Out of the question (too much time, assets, and resources allocated into something with limited interactivity).

—The Audience
Again, even though there are tons of players like you guys who enjoy the underlying story (and you have my thanks for that)—there are tons MORE players who literally log in every week just to see what the new release is, what new gear it has, and then log out and not play again until the next week. See how many people just chill in /yulgar? There are plenty of them on Twitter. But again, THOSE people also help keep the company afloat by buying gear and ACs. So you can see why the company isn't opposed to creating recolors, dual-wield variants, etc. all the time...

—Holidays
This, I want to say as a writer, is the single-most annoying thing that interferes with the story process. There's literally a holiday every other week, especially those in other countries, that need some sort of dedicated release. And of course, that cuts into the allotted story slots HEAVILY. In fact, once October starts, there's literally no other room for non-holiday stuff up until after the new year.
In DF, at least, an entire month or more is set aside for a holiday story.

—Other Game Features
It's actually pretty apparent on the Forums, but I mean, think about classes. It's probably the single hottest topic between here and DragonFable's forums, even though most of AQW's classes are just minor tweaks and clones of each other. A lot of people (for some reason) care about skills, damage, and PvP—and of course, it's prioritized over the story. I'm sure many of you can name more class designers than you can writers. :P
And then, of course, there's all the gear, items, and bonuses that everyone wants...

—Executive Override
We've got plenty of ideas and plenty of stories—but sometimes, they just don't make the cut with the higher-ups. Sometimes in favor of the above reasons, and sometimes because of time/resource constraints. Things are pushed back a LOT. And again, a LOT of paying players could care less about the story than the items that come with it—some literally skip through cutscenes and dialogue and don't even realize (or care) that it's there.
Which is ironic...since DragonFable literally gets its fame from the amazing stories (and combat system) it has. It's also a lot less cartoon-y and more realistic. (The other games should really take a leaf out of its book...)
AQW, on the other hand, seems to thrive on humor and randomness. There's not much to like about it, but it is what it is.

—The Story Itself
This is where it gets tricky. AQW has several writers, including Artix, and we all have very different ideas. Canons conflict, and AQW's timeline placement is just messed up. One week, we're helping village peasants, the next week, we're somehow in space fighting robot-cyborg-zombies in a quasi-medieval setting. The week after? We've just discovered that we're some draconic god entity and yet we still can't beat a giant tentacle lady. The story is literally ALL OVER the place. And while that may keep things fun and interesting for some players, it also makes it very difficult for any sort of storyline to get started. Some (if not most) players would prefer a solid, overarching storyline (like this past ToD saga); but others prefer a random schedule so they don't know what's coming up next. It's...not easy to deal with, that's for sure.

There's also the question of writers. It'd be easy if it was just one writer, like Artix, who wrote everything—that way, there'd be a single, continuous flow at the very least. But AQW has multiple writers, and each one has their own story to tell. So Artix can't just take over Laken's storyline, cause it's his, and Inanitas can't just take over Memet's. Different stories get different priorities, and things are assigned so that each writer has at least one shot at writing something each year.
If I wanted to have a single story arc (outside of the main storyline) fleshed out, not including breaks between releases, it would take 2 or more years to secure the timeslots for maybe 5-6 releases. Especially since it's not a high priority. In comparison, the script for an entire saga would take less than 2-3 days to write.
And this doesn't factor in releases getting pushed back because of delays, promotional stuff for other games, or random ideas that the higher-ups come up with.

(apologies for the wall of text—I'm racking my brains trying to remember this stuff, but hopefully it'll give you guys a little more insight)

@Phastore
Hiya! No, I don't have anything to do with the Dage vs. Laken storyline—though I know Laken's already gotten most of it figured out. It just needs another release or two to finish up. And with all the reviews it's gotten, there's no way the team would forget about it.

And nope, I don't have anything to do with the current QoM saga. Not at the moment, anyway.

@Veya
quote:

You know, this only serves to make me indulge into random rants further, I am pretty sure I give at least 2 rants per week already around these parts.

I don't mind! You and Shiny_Underpants generate some really interesting discussions around the Forums.


< Message edited by Æon -- 10/21/2016 0:12:58 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 76
10/20/2016 1:16:00   
The ErosionSeeker
*insert cheesy pun here*


quote:

-Holidays
This, I want to say as a writer, is the single-most annoying thing that interferes with the story process. There's literally a holiday every other week, especially those in other countries, that need some sort of dedicated release. And of course, that cuts into the allotted story slots HEAVILY. In fact, once October starts, there's literally no other room for non-holiday stuff up until after the new year. In DF, at least, an entire month or more is set aside for the holiday story.


On the holiday season, that is a major and recurring issue with all of the AE games.
I'm well aware that September-December is also a big financial gain, with TLAPD, Halloween, Black Friday, and Christmas are all big AC sale seasons, which provides incentive to focus on those more than on other content.

However, for the last 2 years, the two Karok arcs have both been handled well through the holiday season. While only tangentially related to Frostval, that is proof that having releases be storyline-major and holiday-related is feasible.

Not sure if this week is going to be entirely Nostalgiatown, but the Infernals vs Darkovia would've been fine as a tie-in to Halloween.
While that may not be doable for every holiday, but if a lot of people really are just in it for the items, then tie them into storyline releases and fit those into the holiday schedule when necessary. Karok is a big bad ice guy, he's fine for Christmas. QoM harvesting hearts for more demon power? Bam that's next year's Valentine's event.

There really doesn't seem to be anything stopping that from happening, and making releases in the holiday season not be a distraction will be crucial to the Sept-Dec season not being the storyline cut into pieces across 4 months of hiatus.
DF AQW  Post #: 77
10/20/2016 8:44:07   
LyRein
Member

@Aeon

so wouldn't it make more sense to have one set of writers do the main story arc, another to write filler instead of having them all mixed up?

that way when the breaks are over, the story doesn't randomly start off with you saving Embersea then chilling under a tree and getting pulled to Brightoak

another solution could be to pass on stories to another writer for him/her to complete for you but we know how that worked out with the writer swap during first week of QoM lol
Post #: 78
10/20/2016 20:13:01   
TheMother
Member

MMM, thank You Crist.

But, I have a question about the Multiverse.

In Cutscene 2 of the Mirror Realm,they(Paul And Storm) said:

quote:

Paul: We're not from the multiverse.

Storm: We grew up in a small suburb just outside of the multiverse.


Small Suburb? What is that? There really is something '' out '' of the multiverse?

Thank You
Post #: 79
10/20/2016 21:36:19   
ChaosRipjaw
How We Roll Winner
Jun15


The "multiverse" is the AE uni/multiverse, and Paul and Storm are real musical guests. So by that logic, they come from the "real world," which is outside the AE multiverse.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 80
10/20/2016 22:07:36   
Christophoses
AQW Tester
&
Lore Adept


@Æon

Story writing isn't supposed to be about what people want to see/hear. That makes a story writer lose credibility. I understand if a writer releases a story that addresses what people want to know about, but creating a story that purely focuses on what fans want is nothing more than fan service. It almost as bad as using Deus Ex Machina out of nowhere. It shows lack of creativity.

I remember you writing a brief post about your Darkness arc in the Queen of Monsters saga. I would hope that the plans didn't change. You gave an interesting sneak peak of what seems to be an interesting story and it would be a shame if your creativity was influenced by what we want to see.

Sepulchure is a fan favorite, no questions asked. However, he can't just be thrown into a story just for the heck of it. Honestly, Sepulchure's name being thrown out of nowhere in the ToD saga was a bit of a letdown. That saga had interesting characters and didn't need fan service in order to be a hit.

If The Mysterious Stranger and The Primordial didn't have anything to do with the ToD finale that should have been clarified. It was already annoying to have another character named "Mysterious Stranger" and no clarification being given as to whether or not it was The Mysterious Stranger from DF that fans know and love. If The Primordial isn't going to play a part in AQW that should also be clarified.

Characters can't be randomly introduced, or return for no sensible reason, not be featured in any story, and no story writers or staff give any information about their whereabouts or intentions. That's poor story writing. It was already bad enough that your installment in the Throne of Darkness saga was delayed more than half a year for some random story, and the Throne of Darkness saga being delayed because of other random events. Stories need to have continuity otherwise they fall apart.

____________________________________________

This Storyline Discussion Thread is a terrible idea. There are many parts to the AQW story that we can't have them all in one thread. This isn't like the Suggested Items thread where it's simply a list of things we want. There should be a sub-category of the AQW section of this forum dedicated to AQW lore.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 81
10/20/2016 23:50:00   
Æon
The Darklight Hero


@TheErosionSeeker
Oh, I don't disagree with that at all. It's a great idea.
But unfortunately, the writers don't always get to pick what to write, or when to write it...

@LyRein
The above answer applies to this as well. Unlike DragonFable, where the writers kinda divvy out who writes what for each week, it's more assignment-based in AQW. As a volunteer, I'm given an idea of what to write for a certain event, and I'm given up till a certain date to brainstorm. So even if I wrote, say, the upcoming Infernal Invasion in Darkovia—that doesn't guarantee that I'll write the part that comes after that, or even anything down the line.
Plus, it wouldn't be fair to the other writers if someone were to keep taking consecutive writing slots—Artix excluded.

If you take the recent Swordhaven Tournament quests from DF for example (which were probably the most "original" things I've written to date), I didn't have a prompt for that. I just had to write something that fit the "quest board" theme, and could possibly happen in Swordhaven, so I went with the most interesting route I could think of. And more importantly, I volunteered for it.
It wasn't forced on me, and a tournament didn't even need to happen.
But it did!

@Christophisis
Well, I haven't written anything for AQW since February...so anything that's happened up to this point is out of my knowledge.
I still have a few story elements set up here and there that I was hoping to build into the main saga, but for the time being, I'm moving some characters (Faust, for example) to DF and building a different story there.

Who knows? If things turn out well, there might be enough support to continue things in AQW. :)
But for the time being, it really isn't feasible.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 82
10/21/2016 8:58:19   
LyRein
Member

Not really aimed at anyone in particular but does anyone know what happened to Alina' promise of releasing a Good-themed tournament shortly after the release of the "ShadowBlast Arena" ? We had some really good (pun intented) ideas for this, it would be a shame if they just completely abandoned it.

Not to be pessimistic but I honestly doubt they care at this point.
Post #: 83
10/21/2016 9:48:59   
teravor
Member

I think they might have been put on the backburner while the Queen of Monsters saga and the elemental islands faded into the background.
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 84
10/21/2016 10:31:42   
flyingmongoose
Member

Im assuming the end of Dage's place, Dark Rise, also fits into that
AQW  Post #: 85
10/22/2016 1:29:40   
Christophoses
AQW Tester
&
Lore Adept


@Æon

HOLD UP! FAUST IN DF IS YOUR CREATION?!?!?!

You just made my day. I can't wait to see what direction you take with your character. Could you possibly explain if he and Secundus have anything to do with each other?
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 86
10/22/2016 10:08:07   
LyRein
Member

@Aeon

Have you or any other writer ever thought of including the story through other means than questlines and cutscenes?

I.e, in Dark Souls you actually learn the story by studying character' backstory, reading item descriptions and finding things throughout the maps.

Is it possible for something similar for AQW, perhaps have side-quests related to a bigger storyline on different parts of the world that explains some things in another part, have item descriptions that are related to areas or events (instead of describing the item itself) and having secrets in maps that you have to find kind of like Cysero' "Return of the Living Dev" event?

This way the player is allowed to brainstorm theories and conspiracies, it makes anticipating the storyline more exciting and gives us something to reflect on during filler arcs.
Post #: 87
10/22/2016 10:30:13   
Æon
The Darklight Hero


@Christophisis
Well, this really isn't the right part of the forums for it, but you'll learn a bit more after the next quest I've written out. XD

@LyRein
Well, the volunteer writers usually have amazing ideas—Venthos had the genius idea to include a "J6 map" sort of minigame during the Starsword Origins thing, and I never would have thought of that—but most of them take up too much time or resources to implement. Believe me, we've thought of some AMAZING stuff that didn't make the cut.

Another thing is...we're just writers. Once the script is written, our part is basically over. We don't do any of the coding, or change any of the features. Even the fun little things I add to the script that have to do with game interaction are usually skipped over/ignored in order to just get a release done with.
So no hidden dialogue if you have a certain item in your inventory, or no random pop-ups hidden around the map that you can piece together to make a story (ex. torn journal pages).

Because of our limited means, we've got to try and fit as much story and easter egg stuff into the text as possible. Dreadrock Citadel was a huge example. I'm actually pretty lucky to help out the item description team as well, because it means I can fit some really small backstory stuff (or plenty of cultural references) onto some items.

There've been many times where I or someone else had some new battle mechanic or cool idea ("What if we "sold" event achievements for an absurd amount of gold, or maybe even ACs, to save people some time/provide a gold sink?" "Can we get a black version of /whitemap?" "Can player houses come with unique character page backgrounds for the owner of the house?"), and were simply told, "I don't want to" or "I don't have time to add that," etc.

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 88
10/22/2016 10:36:33   
LyRein
Member

@Aeon

Well, every release has items with full descriptions included, the least the writers for that part could do is take your ideas for the descriptions, right?

Anyways, now I wish AE had a release every two weeks instead of every week. I've seen what AE is capable of doing with enough time, like Living Dungeon (that took exactly two weeks IIRC), Dreadlock Citadel (so much lore to eat up in that release, good job on that one) and I'm willing to bet Throne of Darkness was mostly pre-planned, which means the reason it was so fun was because you guys had more time to make it.

Thanks for answering all my questions!
Post #: 89
10/22/2016 10:50:10   
LouisCyphere
Member

@Aeon:
quote:

Again, even though there are tons of players like you guys who enjoy the underlying story

This is a sign that we're getting old or at least, mature enough to get dazzled by gears.

quote:

The story is literally ALL OVER the place.

One of the things that irks me in AQW. Every week just seems to be different and sometimes a release is just too removed from the whole AQW storyline. I think it would also be hard for new players to explore these different releases. Maybe put up a compilation of releases like what they're doing with the different storylines (ex. Lords of Chaos, Queen of Monsters and Throne of Darkness ) and as well as the different personal storylines like Dage's and Aranx's.

@Christophisis:
The only info that we have regarding DF's Faust is that he's probably partially inspired by Dr. Faust and Mephistopheles from a certain story/folklore. And I doubt that he's connected with Secundus. And he's also NOT connected to AQW's Faust back in one of AE's Anniversary events.

Another thing to add, it's hard to get invested in some of the characters in the previous releases since they would just show up in one release and never to be called again. An exemption would be the Throne of Darkness villains since they managed to have a permanent mark in the story since ever after they have finished up their stories, they are still relevant unlike the Lords of Chaos which basically became the "Monster of the Week".
Although, with Throne of Darkness and the Infernal Invasion release, it's good to see that we're going to see recurring characters and see what they're up to.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 90
10/23/2016 7:16:38   
Kaybola
Member

Kind'a late but I'm pretty hyped for Sepulchure's return and with the consequences that come with him. What changes will occur? Will he act as the leader of Shadowscythe once more or he will be the big baddie serving the Queen of Monsters or the Mysterious Stranger? (I hope they don't make him a lame event boss or something.)

But if he indeed comes with the same intentions as before --which was killing the Champion of Light (which he thought was King Alteon) and opening a gateway between Lore and Plane of Darkness -- , with the current revelations he might go after Artix and Gravelyn.

I don't know about the Artix part but I can't see him assaulting Gravelyn, as she is Lynaria's only heritage to him. BUT as long as Sepulchure has that cursed armor he may as well as go on a rampage when MS commands him to (like he forced Sepulchure to kill Lynaria.).
Post #: 91
10/23/2016 11:16:07   
LyRein
Member

Speaking from a cutscene perspective, don't you guys sometimes get bored of swords being absolutely useless?

Like, half the time you wonder why people bother to bring a small army with them everywhere if a single guy can shoot a magic fireball and solo your knights in shining armour before they raise their swords.

And how people, specifically main characters, carry swords but hardly use them in combat, mostly villains.

Good example would be Sepulchure, who preferred to shoot IM'A FIRIN MA LAZER dark edition beams of ultimate doom instead of, you know, showing why Valen was considered the best swordsman of his age?

When Seppy comes back, I'm hoping him and other characters start to show their sword-fighting skills and use their swords in general more often, because truth be told I'm getting sick of seeing everyone being a pro Wizard whenever the plot calls for it (and wouldn't it make more sense to utilize normal weaponry instead of burning out on your mana usage?)

To give you guys a good example of sword-fighting that's not realistic (to fit in with the theme of the game) yet not unbelievable (because your sword is not a boomerang) and is entertaining all at the same time, you should watch, THIS fight.

Changed link to quietube. Please use a service such as this so comments are not enabled/visible. ~Shadowhunt

< Message edited by Shadowhunt -- 10/23/2016 12:20:05 >
Post #: 92
10/23/2016 15:59:58   
Laken
Member

quote:

"@Æon Hey Aeon, it's so nice to hear from you again in the forums, I just wanna ask if the Dage vs. Laken Saga be ever getting its proper finale too? Was its saga been abandoned already? I hope not!
Btw, was it you who wrote the "new and improved" Queen of Monsters Saga?"


We have definitely not forgotten about the Dage vs Laken Saga! I'm not sure if I'm allowed to give out dates just yet, but expect one more before the year's end and then the plan is to have the BIG finale sometime around Dage and Mine's birthday.

Also as @Aeon had stated above, doing a release takes A LOT of work and it's even harder when I'm the main writer (including quest creation and npc Dialogue) and the main asset creator. There are so many things that need to be made just for cutscenes and monsters and that doesn't even count reward gear and drops!
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 93
10/23/2016 17:56:37   
Renn Shadowheart
Member

Honestly, I'm not going to even bother with AQW's story.

Such a mess. Everything's all over the place, and it is one of the reasons I quit AQW.

DragonFable's, on the other hand, is something worth talking about.

I have yet to play the Mogloween quests however. xP



AQW Epic  Post #: 94
10/23/2016 18:16:07   
Aura Knight
Member

The main problem with AQW storylines is they often get interrupted by holiday events and if you take too much of a break between them, the continuation won't have as much hype or excitement as the previous release. Assuming of course those older releases were actually good in terms of their story.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 95
10/23/2016 18:25:23   
ChaosRipjaw
How We Roll Winner
Jun15


quote:

When Seppy comes back, I'm hoping him and other characters start to show their sword-fighting skills and use their swords in general more often, because truth be told I'm getting sick of seeing everyone being a pro Wizard whenever the plot calls for it (and wouldn't it make more sense to utilize normal weaponry instead of burning out on your mana usage?)


Seconded; we need more cutscenes like that awesome fight between Alteon and Sepulchure in the beginning of the game.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 96
10/23/2016 22:56:12   
LouisCyphere
Member

@LyRein:
I doubt we can get something as like that. AQW is pretty much limited in terms of cutscenes. Unless we can get full-blown animations (like the Artix vs Undead animation) as cutscenes that doesn't use game assets.

@Aura Knight:
The only, or if there are others, place that I can see where there's hype is on twitter. But that's because Twitter is being Twitter.
In the forums, not so much.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 97
10/23/2016 23:35:22   
Christophoses
AQW Tester
&
Lore Adept


@Æon

quote:

@Christophisis
Well, this really isn't the right part of the forums for it, but you'll learn a bit more after the next quest I've written out. XD


I won't sleep until that release goes live. Jk, I need my beauty sleep :P Seriously, though. I can't wait until that event.

_____________________

Stepping aside from the Throne of Darkness storyline I wanted to know everyone's thoughts on the Infernal Invasion saga.

Personally, I'm really loving it. Not sure who's writing it but they're doing a bang-up job!

Hopefully Reficul returns and Aranx (IRL) gets to include his other main Infernal Warlord baddy. I'm also super looking forward to the Celestial Knight class (name TBD) which is going to be AQW's first tier-3 class.

Lastly, methinks that Constantine has the hots for Lady Solani. Now THAT would be an interesting twist. It would change the history of the feud between Vampires and Lycans. Perhaps it may also lead to the first born Werepyre who would be the future leader of a unified Darkovia. I always felt bad for what happened to Wolfwing so this would be a cool way to avenge him.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 98
10/24/2016 13:16:42   
LyRein
Member

@LouisCyphere

of course, I was simply giving an example of what I meant

@Christophisis

quote:

I need my beauty sleep


pffft

quote:

Lastly, methinks that Constantine has the hots for Lady Solani. Now THAT would be an interesting twist. It would change the history of the feud between Vampires and Lycans. Perhaps it may also lead to the first born Werepyre who would be the future leader of a unified Darkovia. I always felt bad for what happened to Wolfwing so this would be a cool way to avenge him.


i'm trying hard not to picture this in my head

For real though, I kind of wish Gravefang just flies in one day and claims the Blood Throne (my name for the vampire throne) while the other two are busy fighting

I wonder what happened to his Horde though, a personal army following a Werepyre Lich King on his travels around Lore seems like an epic release concept to me actually.



< Message edited by LyRein -- 10/24/2016 13:17:35 >
Post #: 99
10/24/2016 13:55:56   
Veya
Member

It IS worth remembering werewolves can shapeshift into their human forms, while I would understand Constantine prefering not to as to not show a more vunerable form, I would also expect him to be willing to in private if the woman he loves isn't that much into fur, so it doesn't have to be as extreme you guys are thinking.

What I am more worried is... can vampires get pregnant? they are technically undead even if they don't work by the same rules most undead do, so I would expect most of their internal organs no longer work since they don't need them anymore, or work at a limited capacity

< Message edited by Veya -- 10/24/2016 13:56:36 >
AQW  Post #: 100
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