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Focus balance adjust!

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12/28/2016 21:03:42   
Stonehawk
Member

Well, I was thinking of this post for a long time about a new way focus would work in my opinion.

Currently:
Strength -> primary damage
Dexterity -> sidearm damage
Technology -> robot damage
Support -> Auxilliary damage
1 focus = +40 robot damage

Suggestion:
Strength -> primary damage
Dexterity -> sidearm damage
Technology -> robot damage
Support -> Auxilliary damage
1 focus = +10 damage on each weapon above

Balance robots to make them scale similar to the other weapons, so that tech spam builds would have strong robots just like support spam builds have strong auxilliary damage, for example.

Reasons:
1- Doesn't make sense that focus only makes robots stronger.
2- Focus players are balanced players so they should get a small boost on every stat to improve their capacity on using all kinds of weapon.
3- By doing this, high tech players will have a better robot damage, unlike now that people have to balance all stats if they want to have a tech build.
4- Focus builds can focus on any stats they choose to. Instead of making robots stronger, it makes all kinds of damage stronger, so support focus builds, dex focus builds or strength focus builds would work too. A strength focus 5 build with the remaining stats on strength would have like 600 damage, for example.

So, what you guys think? Support or not support the suggestion and tell me why and also what else could be done! I particularly think it's an interesting idea and makes sense more than focus improving robot only.



AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
12/28/2016 23:38:47   
AQWorldsFarmer
Member

i like this idea, every other stat has an item that scales with it.
making robots scale directly with technology makes sense.
I also agree that focus builds shouldn't focus on robots, but well-rounded stats.


Supported, but some testing would be required to make sure this doesn't make tech abuse builds too powerful
Post #: 2
12/29/2016 0:18:41   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Back when focus was first introduced, it actually gave +1 damage per focus level to every attack dealt, as well as the bot bonus damage (which was +6 per focus level instead of today's equivalent which in comparison is +4 I believe?).

Obviously, this was disgustingly broken so the +1 damage per focus level to every attack dealt was removed, but the bot bonus damage was kept the same. It would be interesting to see how it would play out if it was the other way around though.

For reference for older players, +1 in previous phases = +10, +6 = +60, etc...
Epic  Post #: 3
12/29/2016 0:21:47   
NDB
Member

To make the suggestion even better, I would have graduations occur every 1 stat point instead of the current hard coded 5 stat points that cap at 45, just like how every single other stat in the game gives some benefit for each point. However, to stop spam builds from taking advantage of focus by having all of their stats in the low 20's (which would probably provide a greater benefit than what little comes out of diminishing returns for high stat points), focus should start at 35 stat points instead of 25. Each focus graduation would grant 2 points in primary, sidearm, auxiliary, and robot. At max focus or 59 points in each stat, that would grant 50 damage in each of the aforementioned equipments.
Epic  Post #: 4
12/29/2016 8:49:38   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

LET'S JUST CHANGE THE WHOLE ENTIRE GAME SO IT'S NOT EVEN EPICDUEL ANYMORE! IT HARDLY IS ANYWAY!
AQW Epic  Post #: 5
12/30/2016 14:10:22   
shadow.bane
Member

@stonehawk just no dude NO...
AQW Epic  Post #: 6
12/30/2016 15:09:14   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Would be neat if you guys provided some context as to why you support/don't support the idea.

Just saying yes/no without giving any sort of reasoning doesn't contribute. At all.
Epic  Post #: 7
12/30/2016 17:47:13   
shadow.bane
Member

^ simply cause focus is fine as it is now in fact it's a little weak specially an f5 bh with no energy regain skill (cause static grenade is a laughing stock)
AQW Epic  Post #: 8
12/30/2016 18:01:36   
santonik
Member

650 damage every 4 turn (free cost)



That damage cost about 300 energy if you using skilltree.
Epic  Post #: 9
12/31/2016 10:39:31   
Stonehawk
Member

@Exploding Penguin
quote:

Obviously, this was disgustingly broken so the +1 damage per focus level to every attack dealt was removed, but the bot bonus damage was kept the same. It would be interesting to see how it would play out if it was the other way around though.


Exactly. Maybe they made the wrong choice, which somehow killed diversity. All focus players have to think of robot instead of choosing one specialty, hence investing on technology is the best (and probably only) choice for focus players.

Of course robots will scale with tech differently, to make it balanced with the other weapons and, why not, making it also possible to make tech spamming builds? I mean, all other stats can be spammed and it can become a build, except tech, and it's the current focus fault.

And don't worry guys, tech spammers won't dominate the game. Tech spammer cyber hunter could beat a support build easily, for example, with EMP, high deflect chance and high robot damage. On the other hand, they wouldn't be good blockers against high strength builds, and also robot cooldown is t. In my opinion there will be a lot more different builds and possibilities.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
12/31/2016 10:51:14   
crownthedeadman
Member
 

 sure, i would like to see tech mage rule pvp with high tech build , best energy loop, free robot damage.
Post #: 11
12/31/2016 11:19:10   
Stonehawk
Member

@crownthedeadman

Best energy loop? Assimilation would be weak, the only thing left is battery and it's not hard to drain their energy after battery. You can use shields too. Rage will be weak if they don't have good support. No, they won't rule the game. There will be counters to all builds, I'm pretty sure of that. I think it's worth trying.

BHs had dexterity + support ruling (energy manipulation was nerfed, making all other builds weak for them = bad mistake).
TLMs have full support + high healing abuse with poison.

There are no strength or tech abuse builds. Why? Strength was badly nerfed and tech needs focus to actually make its corresponding weapon (robot) hit some damage.

By changing the way focus works and adjusting primary and robot scaling with their stats, there will be all kinds of builds, with AND without focus. THIS is diversity. THIS is EpicDuel.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 12
12/31/2016 12:29:00   
NDB
Member

I would agree that if this adjustment were to be implemented, a lot of tech scaling skills might need a bit revisiting to make sure certain tech builds aren't too powerful now that they have robot, just like how a lot of dex builds went out of control when gun was changed to dex. But this is to be expected so I certainly don't see it as a reason to stop us from trying this change.
Epic  Post #: 13
12/31/2016 12:39:27   
Stonehawk
Member

@NDB

Believe me, it's a good step to bring back diversity. It's really boring to see that focus is directly connected with robots. If you want high tech, you need to use focus for a good robot. If you want to play with focus, you have to invest in tech because focus only buffs a robot.

If focus gave a boost to all kinds of weapons, you could choose which stat to invest with focus, or even try to invest in everything for a HIGHER focus, making an well-rounded warrior.

P.S.: Complaining about specific stats abusing is not a solution in my opinion. A gun became nearly worthless to make dex abusing have a not so strong gun. If anything, we should fix a whole game feature (focus in this case) to make it possible to either abuse any stats you want or just balance everything. Buffing or nerfing class skills will only kill each classes specificity and sometimes even make a class worthless if the change is made to a skill that is shared by more classes (overload, for example).

There won't be a stat abuser ruling the game. Usually there will probably be a cycle:
Tech > Support > Dex > Strength > Tech
Tech = Dex, Support = Strength

Tech will deflect auxilliary from high suppport and there will be robot to counter attack.
Support beats dex because they don't really need to connect a primary attack to win and dex is for good for block.
Dex beats strength for obvious reasons.
Strength (should) beats tech because they will connect high damage primary attack easier since there's no dex to block their attacks.


< Message edited by Stonehawk -- 12/31/2016 13:21:47 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
12/31/2016 12:42:37   
NDB
Member

Heh. No need to keep attacking me. I AM on your side in this discussion. I completely agree with the ideological reasoning behind this change. I couldn't agree more with what you just said. Just read some of the previous things I've wrote in this thread and in other focus related threads. But that's not going to stop me from pointing certain things out because all changes are inevitably going to come with some initial flaws no matter how good they might sound on paper.
Epic  Post #: 15
12/31/2016 13:25:06   
Stonehawk
Member

(sorry I was still editing my post when you answered)

I am not attacking you. I just don't agree with that guy that says a single build will dominate the world after this kind of change.

Of course there will be some small adjusts, but I have to point that they should proceed with caution because some small indirect changes to "fix" a major change usually makes things worse.

P.S.: I really hope this change is considered because focus currently doesn't really make sense and robot damage shouldn't be the only one connected with balancing stats, just doesn't make sense. If it does, please tell me why.

< Message edited by Stonehawk -- 1/8/2017 15:21:55 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 16
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