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11/8/2017 22:11:46   
Hana!
Member

Hi,

Before I start, I'd like to share some things about myself, the most relevant of which is that I've been playing Artix Entertainment games since 2002 with the original AdventureQuest. I got into it when I was a kid first exploring the internet for free games and I was hooked right away along with my older brother.

I also don't usually bother giving feedback for many games because in my experience, most developers usually don't care to sift through all of the feedback and comments, and understandably so. However, some do - Artix Entertainment is just one example. Fisn also encouraged me personally to share my feedback so it is clear that my insights and opinions are valued by the team.

This is going to be a large post aimed mainly at the developers and staff at AE but anyone is free to agree, disagree, add things, etc.

What AQ3D Is Doing Right:

There are a lot of things this game is doing well, whether on its own or compared to other games in the genre. Of all the things I could talk about, I would have to say what's impressed me the most is how the art direction is being translated from a 2D flash browser game like AdventureQuest. I got a sense of nostalgia and bewilderment at the same time which is exactly what an art team should strive for when going for a remaster, sequel, etc.

I've played many MMORPGs in general and more recently on mobile and I also have to commend the team on how combat feels. It might have been worse before the major class update, but I wouldn't know. I like where it is now, although there are still some ways to explore classes that would make them more engaging for the player base.

The story is signature AE, not much has changed which is absolutely fine. The childlike humor is of course enjoyable to a younger audience and the references and inside jokes for older players make it worth following dialogue and paying attention to what's going on. A well-written consistent antagonist and an overarching main plot is the only thing missing from the narrative and I suspect that, too, is planned for the future.

What AQ3D Could Do Better:

I'd like to preface this by saying the team is overall doing a pretty impressive job since this is at least partly uncharted territory for parts of the team what with AQ3D being a mobile, open-world 3D RPG. That said, without criticism and open commentary, it's hard to gauge how the majority of players feel. The players may not feel the same way about a release as its creators, unfortunately. So I'd like to share my thoughts in a way that is more constructive for the developers.

What stands out to me right now is the UI. To start, the inventory is a bit messy and not intuitive. For a game that is reaching out to literally any and all ages, the menu system being intuitive is crucial. Specifically, equipment/gear is just a bit hard to manage. A sorting list could be created that auto-sorts the inventory to make it easier to sell and throw stuff away as inventory management is also important, especially later on in the game. The list could look like this, for example:

- Equipped weapon
- Equipped armor (head, chest, shoulders, feet, hands, belt, cape)
- Equipped cosmetics (in the same order as above)
- Unequipped weapons
- Unequipped armor
- Consumables
- Miscellaneous items and monster drops (sorted alphabetically or by rarity)

Ideally, I feel a character profile/page with equipment slots would be the best option to show what we currently have equipped. The inventory as it is can be a bit confusing sometimes, or just take up too much time for simply looking to see what's equipped.

The other part that struck me as odd was the placement of the chat and player health bar. I imagine UI element placement for mobile is an absolute nightmare to figure out, but I think there are some potential solutions. One might be an option to make the chat window transparent, in the lower-middle part of the screen, and have text flow upwards while a speech bubble icon near the consumables and target icon allow the player to hop into the conversation. The player health bar could then be moved to the top left of the screen where it feels like it ought to be.

Another option is health and mana showing up around an optional crosshair in the center of the screen. Just something I've seen other games do that AQ3D may benefit from with the limited screen space on mobile. I can come up with some UI designs once I finish moving and get PhotoShop back up.

Beyond that, I think Travel in the menu has got to go. Having travel crystals and then the menu shortcut is redundant, and I would prefer having to use crystals even at the cost of convenience. It is a nice game world and I don't see why I should be able to zip around everywhere through the menu. It also allows for lower level players to stumble right into the middle of Ashfall or now Darkovia, which might be aggravating. If the reason for that is to allow higher level players to play with lower level players, encourage summoning or teleporting among friends. Allow them to summon each other and have it come up like a party invite.

Aside from the UI, classes could use some added depth. I do like what was done with the class update, it's a good baseline and will certainly make room to add classes when needed for future updates. At the same time, being able to customize and needing to earn things, even abilities for a class, is iconic of AE games. Getting a class and having to master it is important for your games and this game skipping past it feels weird. How I remember it being implemented in AQW would likely work for 3D. Each class has an individual rank. Starter classes are easy to rank up, advanced classes of course take more time to rank up, and some advanced classes require you to have leveled certain starter classes. As DragonSlayer is soon on its way with more classes to follow in the future, it is important to establish how it will be. Can a new player immediately swap into DragonSlayer, or Paladin, or whichever classes might be added later on?

I wouldn't mind class ranks and a separate class experience. I would love it if that came with a roster of abilities that could be interchanged to make the class tailored to the player, or have one Warrior in a dungeon on debuff duty while another Warrior is focused on high DPS. Some individuality and expression in the classes would go a very long way. I also feel I shouldn't be able to swap into a class through the menu and be a master at it right off the bat. I love learning and exploring classes in other RPGs, but the ceiling is not very high for classes in AQ3D where in other AE games, they most certainly are.

Lastly, some ambient, infinitely looping soundscapes would benefit a lot of areas. My experience in the game saw a lot of cool cutscenes introducing me to the areas that were built, with a familiar but unique soundtrack to go with each of them. And then they ended. I was left to go through a whole area in silence besides the sounds of combat. This one's definitely a minor critique but it's important to world-building.

Where To Go From Here:

With how much fun I've been having in the game, it's easy for me to want to hop right into the Play Store and say "Yes! 5 stars for this awesome game" but the Kickstarter page description really nailed it at the end. AQ3D is something that has enormous potential. You have the nostalgia from old AQ or DF players over the years, but you also have an oversaturated MMO market that's full of Korean copy-pasted games. This is a game that I do truly believe could cut through all of it and make a massive impact. If offering a few bits of feedback helps the team do that, it really is a small price to pay.

I like to imagine what you guys have in store for us way down the road. Will we see Carnax? How about Mastercraft armor sets, with accompanying zones or raids to get them for hardcore players? Everything in between?! (I'm hinting that a long-term road map for the game would be something to get excited about, though I understand it's difficult for devs to want to get people excited over ideas that are just ideas)

There's more I could say, but I'll cut myself off here to open up for any discussion. From what I've seen in Discord communities and in-game conversations, added class depth is the biggest request, but it's not the only thing that could be built up.

And in case anything here sounded negative, I'll end it on a positive note. Though I haven't been a totally active player and I haven't played every AE game ever made, your games were still a large part of mine and my brother's childhood and I'll always appreciate what you guys have done and still do. I just hope my thoughts here can be as helpful as your games have been enjoyable.

Thanks for reading!


< Message edited by Hana! -- 11/14/2017 11:24:23 >
AQW  Post #: 151
11/12/2017 12:59:27   
Dog food
Member

I just got into AQ3D today, I've been at it for over 8h and have got from lv 1-7. It's nice that they are improving upon their other MMO:
- Turning in quests from any place, no need to go back to NPC and the next quest automatically begins once you turn in. A nice improvement from AQW.
- You can see the difference in stats in brackets when you're checking your gear so there is no need to write stuff down when you're comparing - you can see right away.
- Arrow to point you in the right direction of for quests - all these things I mentioned are great, it lessens frustration and is efficient.
- Gear with stats + costume gear, this means we can have the most powerful gear and look how we want. This is an improvement from AQW which doesn't have this option.

What sucks?
- The really short timers on crafting (less than 5 mins) are annoying as it's short enough to wait for but you want to get on with the game.
- Hana sure is right on the inventory being trouble to go thru. Old AQW beat AQ3D here. AQ3D ought to take a page put of AQW's book. In AQ3D you open inv then click catagories and some times you even need to scroll thru the list of catagories. AQW has a button for each catagory that is 1 click away with alphabetical order.
- One big one is no info on exactly what you gain from each stat. How much crit do we gain from 1 crit/evasion/haste/attk etc? does the level of my opponent affect my crit rate and does the amount of crit my enemy has compared to mine affect my rate? who knows. This is important stuff to competitive players.
- Another big one: we need something for the end game once we hit our lv cap and get the best gear. A good PvP system is a very good one and you need leader boards or win/lose records like ED or something otherwise no one really cares. This is something AQW is missing big time: you hit the lv cap then you farm the powerful and hard to get stuff but for no good reason, all you can do is show off because AQW has no leader boards or PvP with records or anything.

The aggressive monsters are a freakin pain in the ass.

UPDATE: These aggro monsters piss me off badly. I hate having to run out of the way to avoid them once they target or getting killed by a group of them while I'm trying to do something. I wanna say more words but this is a PG forum

< Message edited by Dog food -- 11/13/2017 17:06:51 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 152
11/14/2017 8:28:22   
XeNON_54
Member

This wait for the tree to respawn every 30 mins is freakin TORTURE!!!
Post #: 153
11/18/2017 23:30:44   
WickedSick
Member

I am bewildered how some AE players like hana think that AQ3D could make a massive impact out of "copy pasted mmorpgs". Speaking from a typical mmorpg player's perspective, AQ3D has zero chance of attracting players of modern mmorpgs and here's why.

New releases are reskinned versions of old releases. Take a look at mogloween's monsters and darkovia's monsters. Do the monsters attack differently?Is there any aspect of gameplay that deviates from the same old kill and gather quests?If the answer is no, how do you expect to break the monotony and repetitiveness that is present in AQ3D's gameplay? Every single event boss, dungeon boss and normal monster is a reskinned copy with different hp and attack values. The method of killing them remains the same,as monsters do not have other skills that might force a player to dodge or react differently. Now there are some people who will defend AQ3D's repetitiveness by saying that all mmorpgs are grindy and repetitive by nature, and while that is true, other modern mmorpgs offer a variety of game modes to break the monotony of kill quests.

What do I mean by that? Let's consider pvp, something which a sizeable number of mmorpg players consider as end-game content. Other mmorpgs offer 1v1, 3v3, 5v5 battles and even guild vs guild battles that are reset on weekly/daily basis. Some even have a survival mode, where all players take part in a free for all pvp battle and the victor is the last man standing. In comparison, AQ3D offers nothing in comparison to tried-and-tested cookie cutter mmorpgs.

What about raids? Raiding in other mmorpgs is an interesting experience as not only do dungeon bosses have different attack patterns and multiple skills, they are also present in higher difficulties which enable bosses to have additional skills and stats. Some mobile mmorpgs have 10-man, 40-man dungeons where specific roles are required in order to clear the content. It is fun to attack a boss that isn't a mindless auto attacking drone; and it feels even more epic when you clear the boss with a huge 40 man team.Some mobile mmorpgs offer guild hunts where guilds form parties of up to 40 people in order to kill a special monster or a boss monster that spawns in the wild at certain times. These bosses drop tokens that give additional stats when the player has reached certain token milestones, and for balance reasons these tokens are capped to prevent players from getting unlimited stats. Some dungeons offer 3-4 randomized loot on dungeon completion, as well as a mini-auction of randomized loot which include gear and upgrade materials for party members to bid on. Some games host events that offer real-life currency for fastest raid completion to attract more players to their game. Dungeon loot from high level dungeons requires the player to identify the item before it can be used. As the number,type of stat lines is randomized, no two equipment are the same.High level dungeon loot also comes with different set bonuses, having 2-3 pieces of a set grants you set bonuses; these stat bonuses include a boost in stats, boost in power of an ability, grants a chance of inflicting status conditons on a monster, or grants a chance to proc a skill that isn't part of the player's skill book. Dungeon equipment can be upgraded to give better stat ranges, and can be socketed with gems to give a boost in stats. These gems can be further polished to give better stats. In comparison, aq3d's bosses are carbon copies of each other with no exciting attacks or interesting loot.

What about factions? Some mobile mmorpgs implement a faction system that allows you to gain faction reputation and medals. These faction medals can be exchanged for gear in the faction shop, while the level of your reputation limits the gear you can buy or the faction quests you can take. Reputation can be obtained by eliminating enemies in the faction map.Some mmorpgs allow you to auto-attack the creeps so you can do some other things while waiting for your character to farm reputation. Some faction quests require you to compete with other players for resources or sneak into enemy territory to gain intelligence, which is somewhat fun because you can get pked by other players while trying to sneak into the other faction's territory.

What about miscellaneous events that a player can do? some mmorpgs offer world trivia, where players answer multiple choice questions and gain exp and silver for getting a question right. There are also picture Q&As where players get exp and silver for choosing the right picture out of two that best describes a place or event. There are also random activites that players can do like setting up fireworks or inviting other players to dance, all of which give either exp, silver or some other item needed for character progression. There are also random events where you are asked if you want to help a player fighting a mini-boss in a storyline quest, and events where the guild gathers around a bonfire answering guild-related trivia.(e.g would be questions like who is the guild leader, who has the highest character rating, which is the most used class in the guild etc)

I've seen mmorpgs that have the same number of active skills as aq3d(5 active skills). The difference is that I can swap out skills to create a unique skill build, and each skill comes with its own unique ability. In AQ3D some skills are a carbon copy of each other with a different damage modifier(e.g warrior). In other mmorpgs classes have different abilities, for example, a cc-based skill, an aoe skill, single target skill, aoe heal, shield, aggro drawing skill etc. Some of the skills in aq3d just aren't well thought out.(Creating three different single target skills with a different damage multiplier DOES not alleviate the monotony and repetitiveness of combat.

There are a lot of things I mentioned that AQ3D can probably adapt to their game, as right now, AQ3D is one of the most bare-bones mmorpgs on the mobile market.

< Message edited by WickedSick -- 11/18/2017 23:34:52 >
AQ  Post #: 154
11/19/2017 8:16:51   
Vypie
Member

@WickedSick

Thank you, I've been expressing this for a long time!

The most important thing about a game is the actual PLAYING part. AQ3D does not yet have much of that. Regardless of how much content or cool armors you put into the game, it will fail if the gameplay itself does not grow.
I was uncertain, but a bit optimistic about the newly improved classes. But in the end we simply got somewhat different skills that didn't actually change the way you play. It's still just numbers on cooldowns, There's only a sliver of interactivity.

They are definitely going to add abilities to monsters so that they require to play a bit differently. It surely takes development and animation time, and perhaps they already did some of that for Ashfall 3. We will see! (It's safe to assume they were not able to put tons of resources on darkovia because of Ashfall, that's why it only has the basic combat stuff.

I don't want to think this all we are gonna get in terms of combat. I hope the developers don't think this is good enough. Is there an actual designer dedicated to the gameplay? Even with the simple mechanics they are using for the skills, I'm sure they could be more inventive with them.
Ultimates are VERY boring except for the rogue. They should not be just damage!
Most abilities are too just different ways to deal damage, they don't require you to adapt to anything. Mage has some crowd control, but do you even need it when monsters are this basic?
The worst example is the warrior. With a limited set of abilities, you would expect each to be distinct enough. But instead warrior has TWO abilities that do... damage. It's just an extension of auto-attack damage on cooldowns. or THREE, if you count the ultimate. They have the most interesting passive, though! But maybe it is because the rest is basic in comparison.


ROGUE ABILITIES: (Some ideas of what skills could be for rogue)
Right now it focuses a bit too much on damage over time with poisons, when it could focus on quick blade attacks and agility/movement!

[REMOVE]:
-Get rid of poison strike, it basically works like a version of auto-attack. We can instead find a cool battle-opener that combos with other skills.
-Swift kick is pretty boring. Weakening attack is very non-interactive. We could replace it with something else that also disables enemy damage.

[MODIFY]:
-Scorpion sting: We already have damage-over-time happening, why have this also be the same? Raw damage would even be preferred. Let's make it consume stacks to deal damage + STUN. Stun lasts longer per stack consumed.
(fills the role of "weaken" and fits rogues and paralyzing poisons quite nicely)

[ADD]:
-Drilling Dash: Dash to the target, damaging and applying a poison stack 4 times. Only works from far away!
(Use this skill to initiate a combat, or combo it after a stun to quickly re-apply stacks and deal lots of damage. In PvP, this would also be a gap-closer against ranged classes!)

-Blade Barrier: Blocks & counter-attacks all enemy attacks during 2 seconds. Also increases next ability damage by X%.
(A reactive skill. Can deflect some types of ranged attacks too.)

[KEEP]:
-Auto-attack builds poison stacks (awesome already!)
-Venom dance is pretty cool, it already interacts with other skills!

__________________________

Maybe also make some classes have a TOGGLE ability. These can be pretty fun! (two stances with passive effects)
So for rogue, while we are at it:
Stance-1: Your auto-attack frequency is increased by 25%. Stance-2: Makes ALL your attacks/effects also hit the second nearest enemy. (so you basically swap on need, but with a 5 or 10 sec cooldown)


I would love to re-imagine other classes, maybe later!


< Message edited by Vypie -- 11/19/2017 8:18:24 >
Epic  Post #: 155
11/21/2017 15:44:09   
Hana!
Member

quote:

I am bewildered how some AE players like hana think that AQ3D could make a massive impact out of "copy pasted mmorpgs". Speaking from a typical mmorpg player's perspective, AQ3D has zero chance of attracting players of modern mmorpgs and here's why.

New releases are reskinned versions of old releases. Take a look at mogloween's monsters and darkovia's monsters. Do the monsters attack differently?Is there any aspect of gameplay that deviates from the same old kill and gather quests?If the answer is no, how do you expect to break the monotony and repetitiveness that is present in AQ3D's gameplay? Every single event boss, dungeon boss and normal monster is a reskinned copy with different hp and attack values. The method of killing them remains the same,as monsters do not have other skills that might force a player to dodge or react differently. Now there are some people who will defend AQ3D's repetitiveness by saying that all mmorpgs are grindy and repetitive by nature, and while that is true, other modern mmorpgs offer a variety of game modes to break the monotony of kill quests.

What do I mean by that? Let's consider pvp, something which a sizeable number of mmorpg players consider as end-game content. Other mmorpgs offer 1v1, 3v3, 5v5 battles and even guild vs guild battles that are reset on weekly/daily basis. Some even have a survival mode, where all players take part in a free for all pvp battle and the victor is the last man standing. In comparison, AQ3D offers nothing in comparison to tried-and-tested cookie cutter mmorpgs.

What about raids? Raiding in other mmorpgs is an interesting experience as not only do dungeon bosses have different attack patterns and multiple skills, they are also present in higher difficulties which enable bosses to have additional skills and stats. Some mobile mmorpgs have 10-man, 40-man dungeons where specific roles are required in order to clear the content. It is fun to attack a boss that isn't a mindless auto attacking drone; and it feels even more epic when you clear the boss with a huge 40 man team.Some mobile mmorpgs offer guild hunts where guilds form parties of up to 40 people in order to kill a special monster or a boss monster that spawns in the wild at certain times. These bosses drop tokens that give additional stats when the player has reached certain token milestones, and for balance reasons these tokens are capped to prevent players from getting unlimited stats. Some dungeons offer 3-4 randomized loot on dungeon completion, as well as a mini-auction of randomized loot which include gear and upgrade materials for party members to bid on. Some games host events that offer real-life currency for fastest raid completion to attract more players to their game. Dungeon loot from high level dungeons requires the player to identify the item before it can be used. As the number,type of stat lines is randomized, no two equipment are the same.High level dungeon loot also comes with different set bonuses, having 2-3 pieces of a set grants you set bonuses; these stat bonuses include a boost in stats, boost in power of an ability, grants a chance of inflicting status conditons on a monster, or grants a chance to proc a skill that isn't part of the player's skill book. Dungeon equipment can be upgraded to give better stat ranges, and can be socketed with gems to give a boost in stats. These gems can be further polished to give better stats. In comparison, aq3d's bosses are carbon copies of each other with no exciting attacks or interesting loot.

What about factions? Some mobile mmorpgs implement a faction system that allows you to gain faction reputation and medals. These faction medals can be exchanged for gear in the faction shop, while the level of your reputation limits the gear you can buy or the faction quests you can take. Reputation can be obtained by eliminating enemies in the faction map.Some mmorpgs allow you to auto-attack the creeps so you can do some other things while waiting for your character to farm reputation. Some faction quests require you to compete with other players for resources or sneak into enemy territory to gain intelligence, which is somewhat fun because you can get pked by other players while trying to sneak into the other faction's territory.

What about miscellaneous events that a player can do? some mmorpgs offer world trivia, where players answer multiple choice questions and gain exp and silver for getting a question right. There are also picture Q&As where players get exp and silver for choosing the right picture out of two that best describes a place or event. There are also random activites that players can do like setting up fireworks or inviting other players to dance, all of which give either exp, silver or some other item needed for character progression. There are also random events where you are asked if you want to help a player fighting a mini-boss in a storyline quest, and events where the guild gathers around a bonfire answering guild-related trivia.(e.g would be questions like who is the guild leader, who has the highest character rating, which is the most used class in the guild etc)

I've seen mmorpgs that have the same number of active skills as aq3d(5 active skills). The difference is that I can swap out skills to create a unique skill build, and each skill comes with its own unique ability. In AQ3D some skills are a carbon copy of each other with a different damage modifier(e.g warrior). In other mmorpgs classes have different abilities, for example, a cc-based skill, an aoe skill, single target skill, aoe heal, shield, aggro drawing skill etc. Some of the skills in aq3d just aren't well thought out.(Creating three different single target skills with a different damage multiplier DOES not alleviate the monotony and repetitiveness of combat.

There are a lot of things I mentioned that AQ3D can probably adapt to their game, as right now, AQ3D is one of the most bare-bones mmorpgs on the mobile market.

You're not the only MMORPG player, so you really can't speak for everyone. It attracted me as someone who played the most modern MMORPG releases like Black Desert Online, World of Warcraft: Legion, etc., though admittedly, it was more because of the nostalgia factor.

I said combat on mobile is fun, but there needs to be more depth added to it for sure. There's certainly room for improvement and that's most of what I said. Adding skills to dodge, important skill timing, and other gameplay elements and mechanics to combat and bosses especially would do a lot for AQ3D. I even agreed with you in that loot could use a lot of work like more meaningful stats and options to enhance. Citing other MMORPGs, especially ones that randomize stats on gear for "uniqueness" or progression is a terrible idea, though.

A lot of what you're bringing up is a lot of out of context features from other games and just because one game implements something well doesn't mean another one will. Overwatch popularized the loot box model to the point that they're a staple in most online games released today; that doesn't mean it is a good design decision and I wouldn't be alone in thinking that could be removed from most if not all games it's included in. You mentioned AFK farming, for example, that I've seen other mobile MMORPGs use. By definition, that isn't gameplay. You advocated for more engaging gameplay and then implied AQ3D would benefit from something that is the polar opposite of gameplay.

It's not hard to see that AQ3D does have potential to be a fantastic mobile MMORPG. I think it's still at least a year's worth of development away from being near that point, but I do believe if AE listens to feedback regularly and stays driven, they'll find that success. The reason why I did say that AQ3D has the potential to be that good and cut through the copy-pasted MMORPGs saturating the mobile market is because that's exactly what all those games do. They take and use features from each other to the point that each game becomes more or less a re-skin of the one that came before it. I tried nearly every mobile MMORPG and saw the same thing in each of them: gimmicky farming and looting, severe lack of world building and story direction, and the signature slew of eastern MMORPG tactics where you're handed everything in the game on a silver platter without putting in any effort. There were several I started playing and received top-tier gear within minutes and got bombarded by hand-outs so I'd continue playing the game. These are the games you cited and, somehow, these are the top rated mobile games in the Google Play store.

I won't speak for every MMORPG player, but I think I can speak for people who are tired of the generic Asian MMORPG both on PC and mobile with their pay-to-win, quasi-gambling business models that usually do have trouble retaining their player bases because there's no meaningful content or game world.

So although we disagree on some points, here's what we do agree on:

- Equipment Rework: meaningful stats and gear enhancement like slots for gems or similar upgrades in high-tier equipment.
- Class Development: build up on class framework so players can build the class according to what they like and want to use. They can still use a max of 5 abilities at a time, but that doesn't mean they can only choose from 5 abilities.
- Enemy Interaction: skills to avoid and ways to excel at combat past spamming skills and hoping your stats are good enough. Bosses should turn the environment around them into a battleground; players should need to dodge skills and abilities from bosses and make fights more challenging without insane math. FFXIV has a great boss model in their latest expansions - bosses are absurdly difficult, challenging, and rewarding to beat without turning them into a big sponge for 24 players.
- Factions and PvP: a nonlinear story could go a long way, allowing for players to branch out. That would pave the way for a PvP system to make sense in the game, even in the open world. I wouldn't mind something like that to get away from the Battleon bank grind
- More Social World: dungeon/party queues, LFG, player support, etc. I had hoped the random dungeon feature in Battleon would bring me to parties in need of some help, but it's as random as it says. I would enjoy going into parties that need some help on a boss and often do it anyway even though there isn't a system for it in-game.
AQW  Post #: 156
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