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RE: =DF= Design Notes April 14: Banshee by the Well

 
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4/16/2017 4:56:35   
Vanilla Icecream
Member

@greyor
huh, I'm lost. I don't remember seeing a 'please save her hero' message. Could you please explain?
What puzzles me is that there's no trace of a village at all, but the well remains.
And a well normally means that there is a village somewhere nearby...


@dragonmonster

spoiler:

Wasn't the banshee = Layla? How can the diary be even older than the banshee?
Idk, but a lone banshee posting a message on a board right in front of the castle.... Where guards... um, guard the place day and night? I don't really think that's likely.
DF  Post #: 51
4/16/2017 5:00:07   
dragon_monster
Member

As shown in other releases ghost like monsters can become invisible. Pretty sure there was one where an banshee did that also besides this banshee. You have to watch for guard not watching the board and you post it.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 52
4/16/2017 5:19:29   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster it wasn't layla who put up the message. it was whoever wrote the diary. well, their ghost.


@vanilla icecream look at the first word of each line.

spoiler:


"please to whoever is reading this, a banshee has been terrorizing a nearby well
save our village by getting rid of the creature, that well is our only source of water
her, cunning is apparent as she hides as soon as rose soldiers are near
hero of lore, if you somehow read this, then please hear our plea and come help us."

wells are made of stone, and stone lasts longer than wood. besides, as the quest clearly makes obvious if you pay attention to the diary entries, EVERYONE from the village hid down in the well, and everyone died down there. they all ended up as either zombies, ghouls or skeletons that were just lying around. except for layla and her sibling, who became ghosts.


Spoiler tags added! ~Starflame13


< Message edited by Starflame13 -- 4/16/2017 19:07:05 >
DF  Post #: 53
4/16/2017 5:32:26   
Vanilla Icecream
Member

^
But not everything could have been made from wood, though.
It would be much easier for a well to crumble (the well was in a more or less perfect state) than a whole cluster of houses to absolutely disappear.

To tell the truth, though, I'd completely missed the message.
Thanks for pointing that out.

spoiler:


I wonder why the two siblings were different and ended up in a different state than the others.
Did something protect them from the zombies? And cursed Layla at the same time?


Spoiler tags added! ~Starflame13


< Message edited by Starflame13 -- 4/16/2017 19:07:54 >
DF  Post #: 54
4/16/2017 5:47:27   
Greyor_42
Member

@vanilla icecream

spoiler:

i think it's because they died differently from the others. remember, the sibling wasn't abducted by whoever turned the others, they just "fell asleep" upon finishing their last diary entry. also, like i said, they had HIDDEN in the well. this was because their village was attacked. meaning whoever attacked the village probably destroyed it, and the remains decomposed, which means it must have happened well over a year ago.


Spoiler Tags added! ~Starflame13


< Message edited by Starflame13 -- 4/16/2017 19:08:49 >
DF  Post #: 55
4/16/2017 5:51:11   
dragon_monster
Member

@Greyor_42 Why would you think that? The banshee had the mean to do that she can become invisible and post the notice. While her brother or whatever passed to the death realm she was bound to this until the hero saved her. That is why she thanked us.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 56
4/16/2017 5:58:52   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster

spoiler:


well, if it WAS layla who posted the note, it would have said "please save ME, hero", not "please save HER, hero". the sibling, being a ghost as well, would ALSO have the means of doing so. and just because it was layla who said thank you, doesn't mean she also posted the note. besides, if layla WAS bound to the ring, like you said she was, then she wouldn't have been able to travel away from it, due to being BOUND to it.


yes, my theory is simple speculation, but so is pretty much anyone else's, because we don't have that much to go on to definitely say who it was who posted the note. all i know for sure is that it wasn't layla who posted it.

Spoiler Tags added! ~Starflame13


< Message edited by Starflame13 -- 4/16/2017 19:09:22 >
DF  Post #: 57
4/16/2017 6:22:06   
Rlogg
Member

Well the note was not written by her sibling either since the hand writing is different from the diary entries.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 58
4/16/2017 6:22:47   
Vanilla Icecream
Member

So, I googled how long it takes for wood to decompose.

A log that is a foot in diameter takes 10 years to decompose
A log that is 4 feet in diameter takes up to 50 years to decompose.
Several houses means a LOT of logs, piled on top of each other, which would mean the process wouldn't be sped up.
According to a different source, it takes more than 50 years for a spruce to disappear.
More than 200 for a pine tree.

If a destroyed village was simply decomposed, then it would mean that it happened before even the hero was born.
And an ordinary well probably wouldn't last that long.
DF  Post #: 59
4/16/2017 6:26:35   
Greyor_42
Member

@vanilla icecream like i said, the village was DESTROYED, THEN decomposed. why are you assuming that the houses would still be intact at all if the village was attacked and they had to flee into a well? or that the houses are made of logs, and not planks like every other wooden house in the game? 5 years is plenty of time for broken planks to decompose and rot away. especially if they are subject to rain every so often, which would just speed the process up.

@below while that is also a possibility, this would mean that they'd also have to be pretty far away, which would make it not the first choice of somewhere to run away to and hide in during the middle of an attack.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 4/16/2017 6:31:30 >
DF  Post #: 60
4/16/2017 6:28:53   
Rlogg
Member

^Maybe the ruins of the village were actually out of sight.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 61
4/16/2017 6:30:28   
Vanilla Icecream
Member

Yes, DESTROYED. As in Falconreach before it was fixed. Would a villain concentrate in making every single house into crumbles or going after the people?
Even if the attacker managed to break every single house down, there would be logs and pieces of wood everywhere.
If the attacker was capable of absolutely obliterating a village, would it really not be able to catch a handful of perfectly ordinary people?

What's the great difference between a dead spruce and a plank? Lots of planks, for the matter?
The source I read was talking about how long it would take a fallen tree to absolutely decompose.
Which means it takes the rainfall into account.
It takes 3 years for a twig 1 inch in diameter to decompose. Even if it were a plank, it would take at least 10 years.

< Message edited by Vanilla Icecream -- 4/16/2017 6:46:29 >
DF  Post #: 62
4/16/2017 6:33:18   
dragon_monster
Member

spoiler:



quote:

well, if it WAS layla who posted the note, it would have said "please save ME, hero", not "please save HER, hero". the sibling, being a ghost as well, would ALSO have the means of doing so. and just because it was layla who said thank you, doesn't mean she also posted the note. besides, if layla WAS bound to the ring, like you said she was, then she wouldn't have been able to travel away from it, due to being BOUND to it.

yes, my theory is simple speculation, but so is pretty much anyone else's, because we don't have that much to go on to definitely say who it was who posted the note. all i know for sure is that it wasn't layla who posted it.



Would that not be a little strange you know please save me hero that might have been taken down by whoever takes care of the notices. Also bound to the ring might mean on the mortal plane not unable to move. The problem with the ghost thing is why now and why we did not see it.

Spoiler Tags added! ~Starflame13


< Message edited by Starflame13 -- 4/16/2017 19:11:30 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 63
4/16/2017 6:37:10   
Greyor_42
Member

@vanilla icecream now you're looking too far in the OTHER side of the spectrum. i never said it was falconreach level destroyed, or "absolutely obliterated". and again, you're assuming that the houses would for some reason be made of logs, when every other wooden house in the game is made with PLANKS, which decompose faster, due to being thinner. there's also the fact that the grass and other things would just grow over the remains, which would conceal them.

there IS a perfect medium where the village could have been destroyed, THEN decompose, and leave no trace, while the well remains intact. but you're constantly looking past it by only going to extremes.

@dragon_monster why would a note from a person asking to be saved be taken down? that makes no sense. also, ghosts who are bound to an object CAN'T travel far from said object. that's what being bound means with ghosts. a ghost that is bound to a house can't leave the house. a ghost bound to a mirror will always stay by that mirror, and will follow it wherever it's taken, because their soul is bound to that object.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 4/16/2017 6:39:38 >
DF  Post #: 64
4/16/2017 6:45:58   
dragon_monster
Member

The save me thing if you need to be saved how would you put the notice? That would have been taken down because its considered a joke.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 65
4/16/2017 6:50:38   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster

tell that to the notice calling for someone to help because the poster had fallen over.....and it was true.... and not taken down.... i'm not even kidding, that actually exists.
DF  Post #: 66
4/16/2017 6:54:16   
Vanilla Icecream
Member

Twigs 1 inch in diameter takes 3 years to decompose.
A single fallen spruce takes 50.
Even Falconreach-level of destruction had half the buildings standing.
For a house to fully function as a house, the walls aren't made of a thin line of planks, so we can say that each wall is at least 4 inches in thickness.
5 years? Really? I don't think so.

It's more likely that (as @Rlogg said,) the ruins were simply out of sight.
DF  Post #: 67
4/16/2017 7:03:54   
Greyor_42
Member

@vanilla icecream i DID alter my argument to bring in the point that vegetation could have grown over the still decomposing planks, which would conceal them......

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 4/16/2017 7:05:03 >
DF  Post #: 68
4/16/2017 7:49:30   
dragon_monster
Member

quote:

tell that to the notice calling for someone to help because the poster had fallen over.....and it was true.... and not taken down.... i'm not even kidding, that actually exists.


True but he did not answer the notice of before or after falling down. He just said yes also that dude is strange and was in comic situation. This was a serious one. Do you know the a episode of DBS where Vegeta fought a gag manga character and lost. Some things break the rules of everything for comic reasons.

Take Cysero for example he break the rules of everything quite a lot even the fourth wall.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 69
4/16/2017 8:07:00   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster comic purposes or not, my point is that a "please save me" style note HAS been posted before, and wasn't taken down before the hero got to it. besides, for a more serious one, remember the one for making the vile infused rose weapons? that one wasn't taken down either, and it was incredibly messed up. guards don't really make much of a habit of paying attention to what gets posted on that notice board.
DF  Post #: 70
4/16/2017 8:09:25   
dragon_monster
Member

Except that it was for the Rose and they rule the kingdom in the end.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 71
4/16/2017 8:11:33   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

Probably the most important part of this quest was who it was that posted the notice.
Er, there's nothing to say that those villagers... weren't from the village that the notice-poster came from. Whoever posted the notice seemed to know who Layla was.

In which case, whoever posted the notice is either the perpetrator, or the village wasn't completely destroyed. Did the Hero take a good look at the village before they went on the quest? If they did, it happened off-screen, so we don't know what the Hero may have found there.
Additionally, (edit)
quote:

that well is our only source of water
implies that it is the same village as Layla is from.



Edit:
quote:

~original: @VanillaIcecream
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I've read that between 50 to 365 days after death (it depends on the environment), most corpses are left with only bones and teeth.
So I don't think the corpse's state will tell us much about the time of death.

The time it takes for a corpse to decompose is important, because those zombie villagers weren't fully decomposed. While the fact that they aren't motionless will delay the effects, it won't fully prevent them. That means the attack would've had to happen some time in the past year.

There's nothing to say the Rose didn't prevent the attack. They may have forced the perpetrator into hiding (wherein the perpetrator could post the notice), or killed/imprisoned them.
They would have then cleared the village, but they'd probably have overlooked the well.

If the message was posted by the perpetrator, then that means Layla was someone they cared about. The fact that they still cared what happened after she died implies some family tie between them- and if they truly were the perpetrator, they couldn't deal with it themself.
Why do I think the note was posted by the perpetrator? Well, they could have asked the Rose, but then they risk a Magus investigating. Amadeus would probably immediately identify the perpetrator if he investigated.
If they wanted the perpetrator caught, it would've made more sense to ask the Rose or the Paladin Order for assistance.

That's my analysis. I'm changing my forum name to Kirigiri.

< Message edited by Shiny_Underpants -- 4/16/2017 8:35:35 >
DF MQ  Post #: 72
4/16/2017 8:34:50   
Greyor_42
Member

@shiny_underpants the hero didn't FIND a village. that's one of the bigger things. they directly said that there was no village near the well that the note asked them to investigate.


@dragon_monster what was for the rose?
DF  Post #: 73
4/16/2017 9:09:24   
dragon_monster
Member

The vile infused weapons.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 74
4/16/2017 9:37:46   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster no, they're for use AGAINST the rose. and other humans......
DF  Post #: 75
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