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RE: There is no doubt that the hero has grown in strength over the years...

 
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4/19/2017 4:49:04   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster

exactly, there wasn't anyone that POWERFUL back then. i never said that. the only magic ever really used in creating "nomicons" is just the ENCHANTMENT that is placed upon them while they are being written. but how do you know there wasn't someone that KNOWLEDGEABLE about fire magic even longer BEFORE then? like i said, his name would have faded into obscurity.

quote:

its how I said it its stores magic

and how do you know that? the answer: you don't. because literally NOWHERE in the game was that ever stated or implied, nor has it ever been stated or implied by the staff. the more likely, and logical, explanation is that it's an enchanted artifact that mutliplies the owner's power with the KNOWLEDGE stored inside it. that's the whole point of mages after all "knowledge is power". that's why magic damage scales off of the INTELLECT stat, and your max mana scales off of your WISDOM stat. the smarter and more wise a mage is, the more powerful they are, and the better they can USE that power. the "nomicons" are an enchanted source of knowledge where simply OWNING it imbues you with the knowledge and power contained within, but actually opening it and reading it would make you even MORE powerful.
DF  Post #: 26
4/19/2017 5:06:21   
dragon_monster
Member

The remaining magic of the pyromicon was so strong that it bound to the lava and made Xan a titan what I quoted should tell you that it has magic a ton of magic huge amount of magic. Its not the spells that made it its user strong its the actual power it contains.
Also a 1000 power increase come on now that is way to much that will mean that most of our enemies are ants and their not we have to struggle against them.We get tired after we beat undead well a little tired so it means that we struggled. At 1000 increase we would not have broken a sweat at 1000 power increase we would have beaten Caitiff's army by ourselves. At more reasonable 100 times increase since before we had our dragon. Hell he does not even now he is powered up.

< Message edited by dragon_monster -- 4/19/2017 5:27:27 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 27
4/19/2017 5:17:43   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster

so it has a powerful enchantemnt on it. that doesn't mean that it was made by someone insanely powerful. the creator could have just been very SMART, and known how to best use their magic to enchant things. you can't just make assumptions and say "this is canon because i think so". besides, it binding to the lava and making xan a titan doesn't necessarily make it "super incredible OMGBBQ strong,bro!". by that logic, dragon amulets are absolutely BROKEN, since they can turn baby dragons into fully grown titan ones. but they AREN'T broken. that's just what they were magically programmed to do. it's not because "i stored a massive amount of dragon magic into this amulet every day for years on end, so that my dragon can grow up whenever i want them to". no, they were ENCHANTED with that upon first creation. same goes for "nomicons" and literally every OTHER enchanted artifact. a SPELL was placed upon them that gives them their enchanted properties, not because magic energy was stored inside them.
DF  Post #: 28
4/19/2017 5:23:37   
dragon_monster
Member

Warlic said the remaining pyromicon magic bounded with the lava its quite clear what it said. It had magic of a certain amount to have remaining.



Also a 1000 power increase come on now that is way to much that will mean that most of our enemies are ants and their not we have to struggle against them.We get tired after we beat undead well a little tired so it means that we struggled. At 1000 increase we would not have broken a sweat at 1000 power increase we would have beaten Caitiff's army by ourselves. At more reasonable 100 times increase since before we had our dragon. Hell he does not even now he is powered up.

< Message edited by dragon_monster -- 4/19/2017 5:28:20 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 29
4/19/2017 5:34:04   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster

quote:

we got a little tired after beating a dozen undead we are not that strong
...it was a LOT more than just a dozen of them, and they were DOOM-empowered undead, AND we had been fighting nearly nonstop for almost 4 days at that point. the fact that we were only "a little winded" was an incredible feat of stamina, one YOU YOURSELF was impressed with, calling him, and i quote "a monster". so, don't misrepresent the facts there just to make your own argument seem more plausible than it actually is. someone smart enough to fact check could EASILY shatter an argument like that by simply looking up what happened and properly recounting it.

as for what warlic said, again, it can easily be explained as a POWERFUL ENCHANTMENT. and guess what, someone doesn't need to be crazy powerful to be able to cast one. even a weak mage can do that, as long as they know what they're doing, and how to do it most efficiently. that's the thing about dragonfable. every single magical object that isn't directly from one of the elemental planes is just something with an enchantment on it. they don't store magic for later use, like some sort of battery. yes, the pyronomicon WOULD have magic in it, just like literally EVERY OTHER ENCHANTED ITEM IN EXISTENCE. because that's what echnatments ARE: magic. they are spells that are imbued into an object to give them passive magical effects, like empowering the owner's magic by granting them arcane knowledge, or protecting the owner from a certain element, or both(which would allow the two enchantments to mix, which would then make the owner's magic stronger by binding them with said element), thus, it wouldn't need a large amount of magic to do that, since that's just a simple part of the pyronomicon's PROGRAMMING.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 4/19/2017 5:35:45 >
DF  Post #: 30
4/19/2017 6:01:05   
dragon_monster
Member

That magic bounded with the lava which allowed Xan to become a lava titan he no longer had access to the pyromicon he had access to the magic of the pyromicon. So the magic of the item mattered not the item in the end.

Really now Xan killed 299 elite knights with one spell this are elite knights like the hero before his empowerment their the best of the best. Now I will give you that even before our empowerment we survived Xan and his power even he was surprised now pretty sure we can do more then survive but we lack in damage far more then him. We need that also be 1000 stronger not only endurance and defense.

quote:

Xan: What's this? Still alive? Well well well, you might have proven an interesting challange...
Xan: ...If I didn't have the Pyronomicon magnifying my abilities.
Xan: Now...HAHAHAHHAHHA!! YOU BURN LIKE YOUR TOWN DID!
Pyre Spy: *Whisper whisper whisper*
Xan: Oh? Warlic, you say? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! What a wonderful day!
Xan: Too bad for you hero. I was going to finish you quickly, but now I leave you to a slow death.
Xan: Farewell <Character>. I've got a meeting with an old friend. HAHAHHAH! See you in the afterlife!


See pyromicon magnifies his abilities.It does not give him arcane knowledge it magnifies his abilities. Now this a genius a mad genius but a genius why would he not be able to make such an pyromcon with over 200 years of knowledge?

AQ DF MQ  Post #: 31
4/19/2017 6:26:47   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster

YES. it magnifies his abilities. with ARCANE KNOWLEDGE due to its ENCHANTMENT. and YES, the MAGIC ENCHANTMENT OF THE ITEM is what bound the lava. that's LITERALLY what i said. the reason behind it is VERY simple. the original pyronomicon was probably made with TWO enchantments:

1. grant the user arcane knowledge about fire magic, and by extension, increase the power of their fire magic
2. protect the user from fire, and use fires and lava to increase the user's power.

thus, with these two SIMPLE enchantments, which wouldn't need that much mana to cast in the CRAFTING of the book, both those scenarios are plausible. and again, NONE of this says that xan is the one who made it. that is nothing but an assumption on your part, and there is no proof that solidifies that claim. now here's an interesting thing. why didn't he just cast empowering enchantments on HIMSELF if he was the one who made the pyronomicon like you think he did? it would be MUCH simpler to do, and there wouldn't be any risk from getting cut off from the boost in power by getting it taken away from him.

also, you misunderstand xan. he isn't a genius, he's just crafty, and talented with fire magic.while he may read from books to gain their knowledge and magic for himself, he has no use for writing anything down. he's a practitioner, not a scholar.

as for the hero growing 1,000 times stronger, as ash stated, the orbs empowered EVERYTHING equally, so, if our endurance is 1,000 times greater, like you just admitted, the so is our strength. besides, even before empowerment, our strength was ridiculous. we knocked down a stalagmite four times taller than us, and as wide as we are tall, in a SINGLE strike back in book 1 when we first encountered the vizalain. and who says we need to be 1,000 times more offensively powerful to beat him anyways? the defensiveness to tank his hits and endurance to keep going is all we really needed, since his defenses aren't that massive(except against fire). besides, xan with the pyronomicon was WEAKER than a drakonnan infused with the power of the fire orb, who we BEAT. so beating him after the fire war would be possible.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 4/19/2017 6:28:09 >
DF  Post #: 32
4/19/2017 6:34:52   
dragon_monster
Member

What you forget that endurance is something Xan is master of he can heal his injuries he got full attack from the ice orb and survived that tough he is he was tortured for hell knows how much and did not fainted and could still fight against Wargoth after all that thanks in large part because he can heal his injuries.
What I am saying is we are not more endurance then him add more attack power because pyromicon and we are gonna lose.
Anyways htink like this if our endurance was 50 and the rest where 20 and we got more increase to our endurance because we still had it higher so if with an orb everything doubled or tripled we get 50x3 and the x3 and x 3 and then x3 and x3 and then times x 27 because we started with a far higher endurance of course we got a higher increse in endurance we had the same increase for all stats but bigger stats for endurance at first.

< Message edited by dragon_monster -- 4/19/2017 6:43:52 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 33
4/19/2017 6:44:13   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster we beat drakonnan who was even MORE offensively powerful than xan, and his attacks didn't really do much to us. so xan's attacks won't do much to us anymore, either. why don't you understand that?

quote:

he got full attack from the ice orb and survived that
..... if you're referring to the attack sepulchure used after getting the ice orb during the final 13th, that wasn't a "full attack". that was just sepulchure shutting him up for a minute. if it WAS a "full attack", everyone there except for sepulchure would have been dead.

quote:

he was tortured for hell knows how much and did not fainted
when did this happen? unless you're referring to the fires that have been burning him alive for 200 years. in which case, he went mad almost immediately, which actually says his endurance is about average human....

also, healing is NOT the same as endurance. endurance is how long you can last WITHOUT any kind of recovery.



so, how do you know that endurance was our greatest trait to start with, or is this just another assumption? because you've been making alot of those this thread....

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 4/19/2017 6:46:09 >
DF  Post #: 34
4/19/2017 6:45:32   
dragon_monster
Member

When Wargoth tortured him.What about when he was caught in the lava current for who knows how much get away kill 3 mages then finding the eggnomicon. Or when Drakonnan use a fire orb empowered attack on Xan and Xan was just pushed back. And its healing fire he heals every injury he gets he is like Wolverine. Did you ever saw Xan knocked down?

< Message edited by dragon_monster -- 4/19/2017 6:50:28 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 35
4/19/2017 6:47:49   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster


i don't remember wargoth ever doing that, but torture really doesn't do anything to him anyways, since that's literally what his LIFE is: constant, unending torture, due to, you know, being BURNED ALIVE FOR ALL ETERNITY. that doesn't cause his endurance to grow, though. he just got used to the constant pain, to the point that he can barely feel it anymore.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 4/19/2017 6:48:27 >
DF  Post #: 36
4/19/2017 6:58:55   
dragon_monster
Member

So he does not feel pain and his injuries get healed so how would he be taken down? Does the hero has nay skill in all the canon classes that can annihilate him in one hit? Think Wolverine if you can not desegregation you can not kill him. The hero has no such skill our dragon has but the hero not.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 37
4/19/2017 8:05:36   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster

his healing ability most likely has limits. the only ones in fiction that don't are often only possessed by character who either have an infinitely growing healing ability(like the hulk, who's regeneration is fueled by his rage) or also have some sort of immortality(like deadpool who was cursed with it). also, the healing fires seem to only REPAIR damage, not regenerate anything.

besides, we defeated xan before, remember? and this thread is about DEFEATING people, not KILLING them. there's a difference. you are correct, we can't KILL xan, for many different reasons, but we can definitely defeat him or at least his book 1 self, even if he has the pyronomicon. it wouldn't be super easy, but the victory would be ours.
DF  Post #: 38
4/19/2017 8:21:42   
dragon_monster
Member

Yes by trowing him in lava and then he still was not knocked down. The point is he never faints never ever. How can we beat someone who can take massive hits from massive attacks and still does not lose concesious. Lets say with aegis we manage to extinguish his flames like Seppy did with the ice orb he still does not get knocked down. The fact that he feels little to no pain means that we need to hit him in a vulnerable spot to defeat him but what is that spot he is a burning skeleton more or less. Its not gonna go well

Konnan unlike Seppy does not have that kind of pain tolerance so of course its easier for us to beat him also no regeneration. So in place where we have no where to trow him we are in big problems.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 39
4/19/2017 8:38:30   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster konnan ALSO survived falling in lava completely unscathed......
DF  Post #: 40
4/19/2017 8:58:27   
dragon_monster
Member

Yes but he still has flesh and blood pierce that chest and he is dead but pierce the chest of Xan and he will laugh. Yes Konnan who got the fire orb with him could survive the lava he made bubble to shield him from the lava I watched the cutscene on you tube and yes a bubble. Xan did not really need that. More weaknesses Konnan has then Xan.

AQ DF MQ  Post #: 41
4/19/2017 15:33:58   
Alamiran
Member

First, I'll say it's impressive that you guys managed to fill out HALF THE THREAD with one discussion (Meant as a compliment). But to be honest, you're both making assumption that I do think seem plausible, but technically have no evidence in the game to back them up (except when you quote cutscenes). We can't really be sure of this until a dev tells us more, which might not happen at all. So could you please, and I'm not trying to offend you in any way, add some "IMO"'s to your discussions? Because I think it would be so much more pleasant to discuss things if you don't have to get mad at each other for making assumptions. Again, I'm not trying to make demands or anything, just making a request because that would make it more pleasant for me to read your discussions, that I always find very interesting.

Now for my own addition to this discussion, I personally think that the "1000 times stronger" comment from Warlic was an exaggeration. If Xan had really been 1000 times stronger, I think that would make him practically invincible, and he wasn't IMO.
And about the Drakonnan>Xan thing, you have to remember that the Hero had already been empowered by 5 of the orbs, meaning that he already had more than half of his empowerment. AND he had the Ice Katana. He also lost against Akriloth at first, even with his titan dragon, and when he got the Frozen Claymore, he won WITHOUT his dragon. If this is any indication of it's power, and the Ice Katana has any kind of similar power, then it would give him a HUGE advantage. And Cysero, Warlic, Artix and Zorbak were there too, don't know if they helped him, Zorbak probably didn't but the other two could have.

Lastly, I have to agree with Greyor, I really don't think that Xan made the Pyronomicon. There is no evidence of it, and I think Xan would have bragged about it if he made it himself. But I also agree with Dragonmonster on the fact that the Pyronomicon having some sort of raw power.

quote:

<Character>: XAN! Did he... is he...?
Warlic: I don't think so. But you beat him, and we've got the Pyronomicon.
Warlic: It's too powerful to destroy, but it's too dangerous to keep in my tower. I think I know the right place to keep it hidden...
Warlic: ...and who knows, maybe Xan was right. Maybe it is powerful enough to free Jaania.
Warlic: The important thing is that it is out of the hands of that madman. I can't believe that you were strong enough to defeat Xan on your own.
Warlic: You saved Lymcrest, my friend, and you saved me. Thank you <Character>, I am forever in your debt.


Maybe the most powerful magic described in it somehow gave it that power? I'm honestly not sure, but that's my personal opinion.

@Below Thank you, sounds good to me!

< Message edited by Alamiran -- 4/19/2017 16:18:29 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 42
4/19/2017 16:01:52   
Greyor_42
Member

@alamiran that is all actually pretty logical there. and i WILL admit that there might be something inscribed in the pyronomicon that would grant it incredibly power unto itself. we HAVE seen cases of magic becoming coscious, and growing/evlolving on its own, though said cases are usually pretty rare.

though i wouldn't say that we had more than half of our empowerment already. remember, we technically also got boosted by a shard of the ultimate orb, AND by eight bacon orbs(and possibly the ultimate bacon orb too). that would technically put us at being empowered by about 14 orbs(15 if you count the ultimate bacon) with one of them(or two, again ultimate bacon) being as powerful-if not more powerful- than 8 orbs combined. and our power DID grow exponentially with each orb we got empowered by. so, by that logic, it's safe to assume that those 5 orbs we came in contact with were maybe around a quarter of our empowerment, possibly even less.

also i AM sorry about the heated argument, and i realize that it kind of stagnated the topic. i feel it would be best if we just leave it as is, and continue on.
DF  Post #: 43
4/19/2017 17:18:01   
Christophoses
Member

@dragon_monster

quote:

Again its the power not the spells do you remember when Warlic blocked the pyromicon from Xan he got weaker basically this its a power source for him. He already knows the spels but the power from the pyromicon was what gave them tremendous destructive power.

Again where does it states that what you say its canon?

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=10700215

quote:

quote:

Warlic: <Character>! We've got a BIG problem. When Xan was knocked into the lava, the remaining magic of the Pyronomicon bound to it.
Warlic: Xan, in his lava titan form, has erupted from the side of the mountain. He's lost control of himself.
Warlic: In this form his magic is more like madness and there is nothing I can do to control it. Xan has become a lava beast...
Warlic: ... and he will be impossible to stop until he burns himself out. But with magic fire... that may never happen.
Warlic: Lymcrest, Falconreach and every town for miles is doomed... Unless... Yes, a DragonLord and his dragon might be able to stop Xan!
Warlic: Do you think that you have the power to stop Xan?



See I am right.


This quote doesn't necessarily imply that the Pyronomicon itself was the a source of power.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 44
4/20/2017 2:52:05   
dragon_monster
Member

Why?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 45
4/20/2017 9:04:59   
FriendOfAFriend
Member

Because nowhere is it stated 'the pyronomicon gave him a new insane amount of power'.

I mean I agree with you in that it's clearly implied that it gave him power, and I also 100% think Xan>>Drakkonann in terms of power and threat level, but yeah :P
Post #: 46
4/20/2017 9:12:33   
dragon_monster
Member

What about when Xan himself said that the pyromicon magnified his abilities?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 47
4/20/2017 9:21:57   
FriendOfAFriend
Member

Oh yeah no I'm not disagreeing with you, I was talking about the highlighted line Chris specifically quoted :P
Post #: 48
4/20/2017 20:07:24   
Anru
Member

Oh we have grown all right. I was bored and started replaying the storyline, there are book one "undefeatable" enemies that I beat. Wind orb Drakath was defeated after I dodged the wind orb's attack twice I think, beat Xan during the war where falconreach gets destroyed, one other guy I think, I don't know who all of the "undefeatable" enemies are but it's nice to see.
DF  Post #: 49
4/21/2017 0:29:51   
VJ
Member

question;
How strong was t hat dragon that was merged with himself from different timelines(X-mass holiday quest)?

would he be as strong as seppy, weaker than seppy, or maybe even?
Post #: 50
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