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RE: There is no doubt that the hero has grown in strength over the years...

 
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4/21/2017 0:49:26   
Greyor_42
Member

@VJ

i'd say meged akriloth was't quite book 1 seppy level, but he was definitely one of the greatest threats we'd faced so far otherwise.
DF  Post #: 51
4/21/2017 1:22:26   
VJ
Member

Greyor;
I have been wondering for a while now in rank of the strongest in terms of villains;

SUMDD
meged akriloth
Seppy



< Message edited by VJ -- 4/21/2017 1:25:44 >
Post #: 52
4/21/2017 3:50:13   
Alamiran
Member

@VJ I think the top five villains are:
1. SMUDD (We needed our dragon, the Ultimate Bacon Orb, and his "Achilles Heel" to beat him)
2. Wargoth (More powerful than the Avatars)
3. Merged Akriloth (Four versions of Akriloth merged)
4. Doom Dragon (Our dragon + Caitiff's doom power)
5. Sepulchure (Beat the Hero without trying)
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 53
4/21/2017 10:45:08   
Anru
Member

@Alamiran We never actually fought doom dragon, we just fought the amulet and some tentacles coming from the Doom Dragon's excessive power. If we had to actually fight him I'd place him at 1st or second on your list.
DF  Post #: 54
4/21/2017 14:12:45   
dragon_monster
Member

I will not go that far with the doom dragon. He was strong true but I do not think SMUDD strong who covered all of Lore Doom Dragon was more localized.

But this is the problem if the doom dragon fought the hero it will like with the guardian dragon he will hold back and that might allow the hero to win. Granted the hero almost always holds back he is rarely goes for the kill which means avoiding vital areas. Look at his fight with Aisha instead of killing her he just defeated her. That is why I say I wish to me the hero or whatever he is with a cruelty that rivals MS I can just imagine how powerful he is since that means he does not holds back.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 55
4/21/2017 15:41:12   
FriendOfAFriend
Member

Probably in terms of power/threat:

1: SMUDD

2: Wargoth

3: Seppy

4: Caitiff/Doom Dragon

5: Merged Akriloth
Post #: 56
4/21/2017 16:07:20   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster

quote:

That is why I say I wish to me the hero or whatever he is with a cruelty that rivals MS I can just imagine how powerful he is since that means he does not holds back.


literally just as powerful as our hero. the only difference is that the alternate timeline version of us is much less merciful(which does NOT affect how powerful they are, mind you).
DF  Post #: 57
4/21/2017 16:10:24   
dragon_monster
Member

Well no holding back we bascially hold back 99% of the time someone merciless well he will go all in. We even hold back against genocidal maniacs like Aisha. You have to be something to make us go all in like Caitiff.

If us the merciless one with current one met the merciless one will kill us as that whatever it is will not hold back he is gonna go all in and for the vitals.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 58
4/21/2017 16:18:33   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster

quote:

Well no holding back we bascially hold back 99% of the time someone merciless well he will go all in.


that still doesn't change the fact that the two would be equally powerful. one just chooses NOT to use all that power. just because the power isn't being used all the time doesn't mean it isn't there.

quote:

If us the merciless one with current one met the merciless one will kill us as that whatever it is will not hold back he is gonna go all in and for the vitals.


actually if anything, we'd end up killing eachother. since the hero of THIS timeline would realize how big a threat the alternate timeline version of us is, and as such, would stop holding back. remember, the hero is not quite as naive and idealistic as they once were. and they have a whole lot more to protect now, as well. the hero now has too much to lose to hold back against an opponent that is literally their ewual in power, but evil.
DF  Post #: 59
4/21/2017 16:32:18   
FriendOfAFriend
Member

Uh, who says we hold back? That is a statement that you have made up. It is false, Dragon.

We use our powers for good, the other one uses them for evil.

It is easier to destroy than it is to create. You are excruciatingly incorrect with assuming evil/cruel automatically means our current Hero 'holds back' and isn't as strong. Like, this is one of the most random statements you could have come up with.
Post #: 60
4/21/2017 17:30:20   
dragon_monster
Member

Really so not using everything you have so you do not kill you enemy is not holding back. He is holding back even in book 3 we do this for example we did not killed the boss of the first wars against the Rose if the hero did not hold back he will be dead.
Also was a mistake because he continued his evil deeds like torturing people and enslaving them.

quote:

actually if anything, we'd end up killing eachother. since the hero of THIS timeline would realize how big a threat the alternate timeline version of us is, and as such, would stop holding back. remember, the hero is not quite as naive and idealistic as they once were. and they have a whole lot more to protect now, as well. the hero now has too much to lose to hold back against an opponent that is literally their ewual in power, but evil.

I just pointed out how we spared a cruel person in book 3 and pretty sure we are gonna do the same this time also. Why do we have more to protect then before especially a whole lot?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 61
4/21/2017 18:42:23   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster

quote:

I just pointed out how we spared a cruel person in book 3 and pretty sure we are gonna do the same this time also. Why do we have more to protect then before especially a whole lot?



yes, the rose agent was cruel. but he wasn't a world ending threat. an alternate timeline version of us with even MORE cruelty? you really can't compare the rose agent to that.......

as for us having more to protect, our new understanding of creatures like the dravir and clawkin would make us more protective of them. they are now something we care about and wish to protect. thus, we now have MORE than we did in book 2, where we really only cared about protecting the humans, and gnomes. every race we've ever learned about personally by INTERACTING with them on a peaceful level has become a race for us to protect. judging from the progression, this will eventually continue until our mantle of protection encompasses every sentient race on lore. and the more we have to protect, the more fiercely we battle.if we had to protect lore from an evil us, we would TRULY put our all into that fight, even moreso than any other fight before. and it would either end in us and the evil us killing each other, or us getting deus ex machina'd so safety and victory, leaving the evil us to die.
DF  Post #: 62
4/21/2017 19:01:58   
dragon_monster
Member

Why would more people change the hero at such a level? He already had millions under his protection will more millions really change him?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 63
4/21/2017 19:40:35   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster


well, if you get the good result for the coldbear interview that determines your alignment, the hero is stated to basically have "chronic hero syndrome". meaning they simply can't HELP but want to protect everything they care about. as the story has progressed, the number of things they care about has grown significantly, and look at how ferocious he was when catiff threatened that. do you REALLY think they're going to hold ANYTHING back when someone arguably more dangerous and cruel comes in to try and mess up their stuff?
DF  Post #: 64
4/21/2017 19:57:16   
dragon_monster
Member

We where not going all in against Caitiff because of the level of threat she was but because she hurt our dragon. No matter how many more we have to protect will not make us do what we did to Caitiff unless our dragon is hurt. We where angry but reach that kind of anger only one thing does it.

So yeah if that evil us hurts our dragon we go all in but the evil us never had that issue and also comes with being more power hungry who knows how much more power the evil us got. We do not search for more power to be fair well not in the sense that we are gonna do all it takes for it. For example if he was so cruel he would have taken the blade of awe for himself not accept for it to be destroyed.

See what I mean?

Our kindness stopped us from getting more power who knows how much we would have gotten.

We also hold back most of the time because if not we who could fight gold like beings will kill normal people if we go all in. Even people who we know will do more evil. The only time the hero actually went all in was with Caitiff the only time so empowered as he is more accurately said.

AQ DF MQ  Post #: 65
4/21/2017 20:49:12   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster


quote:

The only time the hero actually went all in was with Caitiff


that is VERY incorrect. the hero NEVER held back against sepulchure. or the SMUDD. OR wargoth. and none of those times were because "they had hurt our dragon" it was because they would have DESTROYED LORE OTHERWISE.
DF  Post #: 66
4/21/2017 22:44:25   
FriendOfAFriend
Member

quote:


The only time the hero actually went all in was with Caitiff


Oh yes, I'm sure we went easy on literally SMUDD and Seppy. Because that makes sense.
Post #: 67
4/22/2017 0:32:29   
VJ
Member

my question now is since the hero fought and won against SMUDD and the Dragon still holds the power of every orb within it, then shouldn't that alone give the Dragon & hero an edge over the Seppy of the past?

okay now a different question,
Wargoth and Seppy fighting would the winner be Seppy or Wargoth(though the loser would be lore regardless...)?

now here is a good question, if Warlic didn't have to fear becoming wargoth and could go full poweer could he have crushed Seppy, SMUDD, not been frozen by Jaania, and would the Hero actually be needed?
Post #: 68
4/22/2017 1:03:46   
FriendOfAFriend
Member

We didn't 1v1 SMUDD though, 99% of that was our Dragon. We couldn't have sword fought SMUDD :P Same with Wargoth, we had 3 people fighting him with the help of Xan and Jaania also. Totally different situations.

Wargoth stomps Seppy because Wargoth borders being a literal God at this point

Don't think Warlic could have crushed SMUDD.
Post #: 69
4/22/2017 4:40:21   
dragon_monster
Member

quote:

that is VERY incorrect. the hero NEVER held back against sepulchure. or the SMUDD. OR wargoth. and none of those times were because "they had hurt our dragon" it was because they would have DESTROYED LORE OTHERWISE.

Lets see with Seppy we where not that empowered where we now. With SMUDD it was our dragon so you can not say that we where on ours dragon back while he did everything. Wargoth well have to check and probably went all in and got beaten because he was god. I mean the first battle. The second was a team effort and went titan do our dragon did the job.
So on short Seppy we where not that empowered, SMUDD was titan dragon and Wargoth maybe but I will be fair we where not really angry there.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 70
4/22/2017 5:08:57   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster

quote:

Lets see with Seppy we where not that empowered where we now


we ALREADY had the strength of five orbs. so, we were already quite empowered, and by yout own logic, that means we were holding back whenever we fought seppy.

quote:

and Wargoth maybe but I will be fair we where not really angry there.


what does anger have to do with how much power the hero uses in combat? you don't have to be "HULK SMASH!!!" levels of mad to want to use your full strength in a fight. especially if your a PROTECTOR like the hero.if your strong enough to be a threat to the hero's wolrd, and ACT to be a threat, the hero isn't going to hold ANYTHING back in stopping you from whatever it is you're going to do to destroy his world.
DF  Post #: 71
4/22/2017 5:13:02   
dragon_monster
Member

Yeah but we still lacked the bacon orb and the shard of the ultimate orb also no Atlean magic either so there is also that. We where not that powerful then. Think like this if we spared Aisha who probably killed killed with her army in cold blood and wanted to do the same with Lore by covering it in ice do you think it will be different with Wargoth?
I know he killed way more but would the hero care any less no matter the casualties?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 72
4/22/2017 5:29:07   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster

quote:

also no Atlean magic either


you mean the thing that the hero only has access to as one of the ataelan base classes? the thin that would have been completely USELESS if they were literally ANY other class? man, not having access to that is SUCH a detriment......

quote:

Think like this if we spared Aisha who probably killed killed with her army in cold blood and wanted to do the same with Lore by covering it in ice do you think it will be different with Wargoth?


because 1. we ALREADY took the ice orb away from her, and removed her connection to it. and 2. are you SERIOUSLY trying to put aisha in the same danger level as WARGOTH?!?!? this is the rose agent ALL OVER AGAIN! just because they have the INTENT doesn't mean they can actually follow THROUGH with it. we "spared" aisha because it doesn't matter how many times she tries. we'll just beat her again. the same lofic doesn't apply to wargoth who was practically a GOD, so stop trying to make it apply.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 4/22/2017 5:32:50 >
DF  Post #: 73
4/22/2017 5:33:50   
dragon_monster
Member

Hey its alien magic that was not seen on Lore until now you have no idea how that could affect Seppy. Riftwalker for example his attacks cut trough time and space good luck blocking that.
^Why would the hero care if a planet will be destroyed or a village will he not go all in either way?You keep ignoring this. If we let her live she will bring more death and destruction which she tried.
quote:

Alz'ein: You're the one who didn't think Wargoth was powerful enough to take over your avatar!
Alz'ein: You have no idea what the Professor can do!
Alz'ein: ARGH! GET OUT OF MY WAY!


http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=20261714

Why would the hero not be that stupid when he fought Wargoth?

< Message edited by dragon_monster -- 4/22/2017 5:45:09 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 74
4/22/2017 5:58:28   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster

quote:

Riftwalker for example his attacks cut trough time and space good luck blocking that.


......riftwalker doesn't cut through time.... in fact, the only classes with the capability to manipulate time are NON canon, and even THOSE can't do anything to seppy, so..........

quote:

Why would the hero care if a planet will be destroyed or a village will he not go all in either way?You keep ignoring this.


because THAT'S WHO THE HERO IS! the hero has shown TIME AND AGAIN that protecting the world is their MAIN DRIVING FORCE. and YOU keep ignoring THAT.

quote:

If we let her live she will bring more death and destruction which she tried.


except she WON'T because she'll just be stopped again, and again, and again, and again, and AGAIN, etc. because she is NOTHING compared to the world ending threats we have faced. she doesn't even rate as high as akriloth, since she isn't a great dragon. also note that her attempts at revenge led to ZERO casualties. in fact, the only BAD thing to happen was that some people got stuck in a frozen pool. she was downgraded to literally JOKE status.

quote:

Why would the hero not be that stupid when he fought Wargoth?


you literally answered your own question before you asked it. wargoth took over AN AVATAR. has AISHA ever done something that world threatening? NO. has anybody ELSE done anything that world threatening? only sepulchure, drakath, MS, and CAITIFF. you know, the people we went all out against to PROTECT LORE, due to them actually being ABLE to destroy it and actually TRYING to. thus, him sparing aisha wasn't stupid, because she isn't a world ending threat. she's not EVEN a threat anymore after we beat her the first time.......

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 4/22/2017 5:59:24 >
DF  Post #: 75
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