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RE: =AQW= Class Discussion Thread

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6/19/2017 5:44:47   

if you're really, really careful, you can actually do it without the Rank 10 Passive. Did it as a level 57 as well. Weaken isn't stackable, so that's why it fades when you loop it. The Haste and Heal buff are the real buffs imo.
AQW Epic  Post #: 501
6/19/2017 6:21:30   

I tried doing it before I reached rank 10, maybe I just didn't play safe enough, but I could barely survive the first 2-3 Bloodrages.

I know Weaken isn't stackable (although I have heard back in the day, that multiple Necro's could stack the effect of Weaken), but there's other non stackables that doesn't do this, Darkblood's Shocked and Thunderstruck, all of Chaos Slayer's debuffs (I'm pretty sure, haven't used it in ages), Archpaladin's Righteous Seal, Arachno's Cocoon, VoT's Super Taster and Sun. I was just mentioning debuffs that work similarly to Necro's Weaken, there's also all the different non stackable, loopable DoTs, ally buffs and other weird effects, so why would Weaken need to do this? I know Ranger's Scorching Arrow and Stonecrusher's Resonance (only resonance, not Dissonance) also does this, but those are the only other examples I can think of though.

In any case, Necro is a good class, it does above average damage, can solo pretty well, it can solo Maximum Slugfit for the most part and if the enemy doesn't to tons of damage to you, it's possible to spam every skill that isn't Summon Undead, you just need to be slightly wary of the extra damage from Infect while in Deadly Frenzy. It's definitely back on my list of recommended classes, especially since you need Doomwood rep for Blaze Binder anyways and after that, it's just about getting to the top of the Necrotower and get a 5% drop from Creature Creation.

Deadly Frenzy only seems to increase the damage by about 2.3 times though.
Edit: apparently my suspicion was right, it's the rank 4 passive that makes Deadly Frenzy seem weaker than it actually is, because of the way they stack together, oh well..

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 6/19/2017 6:42:27 >
AQW  Post #: 502
6/19/2017 9:04:11   
Paulus Xiphos

At least Necro's no longer just a mere requirement for farming certain items in the game, as well as BB. How bout' do the same for Pyro? And Dragonslayer?

If Ghaol is gonna go around praising Seppy, then I might as well say this: "Long Live Swordhaven! All Hail King Alteon the Good!" Although the guy's been deceased in the storyline.

Unfortunately, RBM isn't a good class as of late (even though Paladin is Doomknight's counterpart in Good, Royal Battlemage is Swordhaven's trained combatant class). If one looks back to the old replies and messages I put in the Forums, they are all mostly comprised of Roleplay feature of the game. That's until Void Highlord came and every active person in this Forum (that's mostly you, awesome Metakirby and compassionate Aura Knight) began talking in statistics, I've been carried into talking about utility instead.

A player in an AQ3D thread once pointed out something about AQW not usually seen here. According to him, "AQW is a very difficult game to play because of all the focus on end-game item farming and gameplay is rather forgotten, which should be the focus of AE's games" somewhere along those lines. In testament, I've not been able to immerse on the storylines and origin and background of monsters and classes, simple stuff like that, cuz' I'm always in a frenzy for farming items like BLoD, BoA, caster classes (I collect magic based classes), Trades (Spellcrafting, Alchemy, Loremaster) and the Gear of Awe. So it's pretty nice that people have threads regarding the current saga (the war with the Darkbloods) and that they want people to participate in wars more and thus ask for a total revision of the War system. I used to have a massive crush on Aria the Pet Vendor but now I see Tibicenas' face whenever I close my eyes (due to the massive drag/farm for the Runes XD).

I think the reason why I ask for a buff on RBM and Dragonslayer is cuz' RBM is a class themed of magic and combat (you don't say?) and I'm a magic collector as well as a Swordhaven loyalist, and Dragonslayer cuz' I idolize Galanoth way back from Dragonfable. I like LC not just because it's literally one of the best class but because I am a player who supports the Light and Good side. And I'd like to believe as Ghoal does that Seppy, Alteon, and even Drakath gives us blessings in the game and not RNGesus. Sorry for the long comment XD!

edit: And not to mention the Headscratchers thread, which offers a loose cohesion and explanation to our story which sometimes become complicated.

< Message edited by Paulus Xiphos -- 6/19/2017 9:25:43 >
AQW  Post #: 503
6/19/2017 10:43:35   
The ErosionSeeker


I know Weaken isn't stackable (although I have heard back in the day, that multiple Necro's could stack the effect of Weaken), but there's other non stackables that doesn't do this, Darkblood's Shocked and Thunderstruck, all of Chaos Slayer's debuffs (I'm pretty sure, haven't used it in ages), Archpaladin's Righteous Seal, Arachno's Cocoon, VoT's Super Taster and Sun. I was just mentioning debuffs that work similarly to Necro's Weaken, there's also all the different non stackable, loopable DoTs, ally buffs and other weird effects, so why would Weaken need to do this? I know Ranger's Scorching Arrow and Stonecrusher's Resonance (only resonance, not Dissonance) also does this, but those are the only other examples I can think of though.

Shocked and Thunderstruck will cancel each other out. This is in part because they say they replace each other, but the result is that two or more DBSKs in a party will make things gross.
I don't remember my history very well, but given how Necro was one of the earlier classes, the coding they used wasn't very sophisticated, and needed tricks like shrugging Weaken when applying Weaken in order to prevent groups from weakening a monster to negative attack.

Classes that apply Focus will also shrug each other, because otherwise six guys forcing Focus is zero guys using Focus.

Also, there is a super easy way to hit Doomstrike every hit, get Doomcoins every battle, and 20 Dark Spirit Orbs every turn-in, and that's by having -50% bonus to hit from a Chaos Slayer.

< Message edited by The ErosionSeeker -- 6/19/2017 10:45:27 >
DF AQW  Post #: 504
6/19/2017 11:39:08   

I need a favour can someone test these builds against the full luck build for soloing?
I am too bias to run the test myself.
build #1: speedy but fair damage
weapon = thief
helm = luck/fighter
class = fighter
cape = luck
build #2: damage build
weapon = fighter/luck (if you use luck on the weapon, then use fighter on the helm/if you use fighter on the weapon, then use luck on the helm)
helm = luck/fighter
class = fighter
cape = luck
build #3: heal build
weapon = hybrid
helm = luck
class = fighter
cape = luck
build #4: the other heal build
weapon = fighter
helm = luck
class = luck
cape = wizard
AQW  Post #: 505
6/19/2017 11:52:46   
kira yoshikage

anyone know how to get the ninja class? i remember seeing it in the forest 1 time, but i cant remember what arrea
Post #: 506
6/19/2017 11:54:32   

Greenguardwest, from the first screen you get to by /joining it, walk 1 screen left and you will see the Ninja NPC also known as Mazumi.
AQW  Post #: 507
6/19/2017 13:36:25   

@Paulus, we just like efficiency, and that comes with having the quote-on-quote, "best" class. Which leads me to my point.

I would really appreciate the rep classes becoming AC-tagged. To players short on inventory space, we end up only keeping only the few "best" classes for necessity and efficiency. I do like to go around and play around on other classes, but having to rank them up to at least level 5 is a hassle every time. I do acknowledge that there are a good number of other classes that are AC-tagged, but none of the rep classes are. And TBH, classes remain the primary reason for players to farm rep. If players are worried about having a discrepancy between a farmed necromancer and a 2K shortcut necromancer, a name difference could be used as with Ranger (shortcut) and Master Ranger (farmed).

Point 2. What other classes do you all think deserve a slight buff (not entire reworking)? Surprised they went back and gave minor tweaks to TS, Legion Paladin and Paladin. Although in Paladin's case, it was a slight nerf.

< Message edited by fxmybrute13 -- 6/19/2017 14:06:26 >
DF AQW  Post #: 508
6/19/2017 14:00:44   
Aura Knight

If any class deserves an update it has to be master ranger. Farming sandsea rep wasn't easy and it got more annoying with those new monsters that have nothing to do with the rep being added to the map.

I want to say evolved shaman too but it's actually alright on the test servers. Actually lots of classes do better on test servers. Something the older classes are missing is a rank 10 passive.

Perhaps ninja could use a few changes too. Class is alright and very fun to use but the lack of a heal by dodging is hurting it a bit. The blind and stun on the class is great though. One of the things that made it so awesome to use in the earlier days.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 509
6/19/2017 14:04:54   

I already said what I said about what classes could use a change but if I had to mention anymore I would have to decide on Deathknight and its counterpart, or pyromancer. I wanted to mention Undeadslayer but that might be too difficult considering it exists for one purpose
DF AQW  Post #: 510
6/19/2017 14:05:39   

But aren't classes supposed to be tiered? The rep classes should generally be on the same tier.
But the basic starter classes, and pick-up-classes like Ninja, Pirate, Rustbucket/Protosartium should, imo, be a tier lower. Although SS destroys absolute destroy this point though.
DF AQW  Post #: 511
6/19/2017 14:07:10   

If we are talking slight reworking and not complete overhauls (I would love for Ranger to get reworked and I know I'm not in the minority), then I would probably put Soul Cleaver on the list, at this point, it just seems like a budget Doomknight for non mems that still requires either legionship or 2k ACs, mind you.

Evo Shaman as well, the buff to Shaman really left Evo Shaman in the dust and I always prefered Evo Shaman over Shaman, not only because it was better than Shaman overall back then, but also because it was just more enjoyable to play.

If we also move into the rare classes, then I would very much like to see Dragon Shinobi's stack limit raised a bit, the skillset itself is good enough, but the max DoT ticks you can get, without the rank passive activating, granted, it's probably one of the most generous ones, is about 3.3-3.5k, unless you mix in some Wiz/Hyrbrid enhancements. This just seems weak when you compare it to Shaman/Evo Shaman who can reach a lot higher damage (and continue on), way quicker and have better surviability, for the most part.


I want to say evolved shaman too but it's actually alright on the test servers.

For AoE farming, maybe, having Cold Burn activate 100% of the time does increase it's damage output, but it's likely still bugged, which makes it pretty bad in single target combat. In case you haven't tried yet try using Elemental Grasp and then Furious Gale, chances are Furious Gale won't activate neither Headwind or Tailwind, also it becomes single target, for whatever reason. It did so when I tried it a few weeks ago.

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 6/19/2017 14:10:21 >
AQW  Post #: 512
6/19/2017 14:17:42   
Aura Knight

I still think evolved shaman would be better off if it were a single target class. Don't the skill descriptions support this? I could have just imagined it. Yes there are problems with classes on the test servers still but we shouldn't worry much since the rewrite is so close to being finished. I recall something similar being said quite a while ago. I'm sure everything will be alright eventually.

Some other classes that need some changes are mechajouster, soul cleaver, and pyromancer. It's mostly their cooldowns that are a problem with these. Mechajouster isn't horrible but it doesn't excel at anything. Soul cleaver has decent damage but it suffers from being very slow and that pointless rank 10 passive. And pyromancer has great burst damage but its healing and defenses suffer quite a bit. The newer levels do help reduce the problems these classes have but it's not enough.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 513
6/19/2017 14:20:53   

Speaking of ESC. With help, it's entirely possible to survive the rank 10 passive. We had to set it up and time it, but basically spamming StoneCrusher's heal/shield with Oracle/AP heals, you can live through Dage's calling :P
DF AQW  Post #: 514
6/19/2017 17:12:14   
Edme MacHeath

Since we're on the topic of buffing classes.

MB could use a buff, its already set up for greatness, with its 17k+ AoE and insane heal. it just can only hit 2 targets at a time, which makes it a less viable farming class, and I also always thought brain fog should be a self stack not some stack you need on an enemy to buff your skills. Having it on an enemy also makes it weird for a farming class.
Timekiller kinda never got to see the light of day. Some huge buff could happen. Especially since it was a heromart class. but it is rare, so it might not get one
Evolved Dark Caster is decent but I think it could have a buff
Master Ranger deserves a buff, perhaps higher dodge, less stacking required, again I see it as a farming class and having enemy stacking makes no sense to me, so perhaps self stacking or no stacking.
Also the heal is lackluster.
Horc Evader could benefit from rogue's mana model. There's been a lot of talk about that in the past.
I've always thought Mage could use a decent heal but maybe it's better to not have one on such an easy class to obtain. But mage is so close to being viable. Just give it a heal and it could be great.
UndeadSlayer, DragonSlayer, and possibly DragonSlayer General could use buffs, UndeadSlayer and DragonSlayer aren't viable at all anymore, and DragonSlayer General is good but it isn't the Goto class for dragonslaying. UndeadSlayer is completely outsped by current classes.
I still think Blood Titan should never have been nerfed.
Evolved Shaman could be a single target class if it was a lot stronger.
BattleMage could use a buff.
Aracnomancer and ArchFiend deserve some buffs to bring them up to stonecrusher or LightCaster's support levels. They're just not as good, and both have far less survival and Damage than SC or LC.
AQ AQW  Post #: 515
6/19/2017 17:18:42   

Apparently, and I don't know this for sure because I am 1) not using Battle Mage at all since it first came out, and 2) not that high leveled, only just got to 65, but apparently RBM in the test servers at high levels is kind of ridiculous now. So that's at least one class in your list that has already been improved.

< Message edited by Randomnity -- 6/19/2017 17:19:00 >
AQ  Post #: 516
6/19/2017 17:45:30   
Aura Knight

The best thing about royal battlemage is that while mana costs are somewhat high, the class has no problems with mana. It has good burst damage but suffers from being too slow. It's the cooldowns of certain effects that need to be altered on lots of old classes. That or the mana regen needs to be something different. For the most part, classes are fine in theory. It's just that some suffer from questionable execution of some skills and effects.

I think arachno is alright but a small heal would be good to see on it. Maybe it could be linked to the poison DoT from the first skill. I don't use the class much so I don't know what would be a good change to it. And it was already changed some time ago.

Horc evader is amazing and if it got a rogue regen model it would be way too good. The class dodges so much that it could be near invincible.

Maybe some of the member exclusive classes could use some changes too. Not that there are many of those. Only one I can think of at this time is blood ancient. And I don't care about the class enough to suggest any changes if it even needs any at all.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 517
6/19/2017 18:16:16   

I'm always gonna hope that someday Evo Shaman gets buffed to the Mage Mana Regen Model and is turned into single target, although it might just become too strong with the regen, but eh, not like it could ecplise LightCaster or VHL with that setup could it.
AQW  Post #: 518
6/19/2017 18:25:16   

Personally I don't mind slow cooldowns on classes. I really hate stacking and repeatedly spamming skills like a monkey on caffeine to be even remotely effective, and the stack skills with caps at 50 sure aren't helping
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 519
6/19/2017 18:29:22   

I like arachno the way it is. It has horrendous soloing capability, just-under-par non-AoE burst damage for mobs, but all of that is fine. The class was designed to be used in parties against bigger bosses. With a SC/LC (almost a necessity), I just loop 5 and double everybody else's damage.

The reason why you rarely see it, is because it's very situational. First you need to be a room where there is a SC/LC at the boss in order not to die. Second, you need strong and active DPS players to be fighting the boss as well, in order to considered useful. After all that, in most cases, the boss dies fast enough anyways that the difference between another strong DPS player and an arachnomancer, is minimal. So lastly, the boss you need to fight has to be a giant health sponge, like idk, Jir'abin, which I happen to be fighting right now in Artix. **coughcough shameless advertising**
DF AQW  Post #: 520
6/19/2017 18:44:02   
Aura Knight

Classes that require some thought to be used effectively are great, but if a class takes too long to beat something it doesn't matter how decent you are with that class. At least not if in the time it takes you to beat a single monster with the class, you could have beat multiple monsters with another one. There's things some classes do better than others but I think it would be a good thing if all classes were decent at many things but have an obvious thing they excel at.

I enjoy classes that take some thought to be used well, but I also don't mind ones which are simple to use. I'd rather not think when farming random monsters. Just use 2 skills and be done with it. This is why I very much enjoy using shaman for farming.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 521
6/19/2017 18:47:46   

True but why use classes that bores you just because those classes are faster and stronger?

I love the classes most people dislike

< Message edited by ghoal -- 6/19/2017 18:50:01 >
AQW  Post #: 522
6/19/2017 19:05:27   

Because efficiency
DF AQW  Post #: 523
6/19/2017 19:30:20   
Aura Knight

I don't think anyone uses classes they'd consider boring. Unless they're testing things.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 524
6/19/2017 19:36:44   

I don't know about RBM needing big or major buffs, I remember posting before how good RBM was, one of its main flaws was the cooldown, and it was easily mitigated by any class that offered a haste buff like stonecrusher. I wouldn't know for sure but I imagine it's probably a little faster now with higher level wiz enhancements. RBM does crazy amount of damage if its attacks do crit it can do like 10k, 6k and 8k I can't really remember though I would have to rank up that class again.

Arachnomancer does decent damage, maybe I was using it wrong, I don't really abuse the DoT aspect of the class, I usually just spam slingshot web and Toxic adrenaline and foreboding arachnid if there was an infinity knight in the party. Although I was only able to abuse the hell out of slingshot web if there was a stonecrusher IIRC, maybe i'm wrong there too.

< Message edited by ArchNero -- 6/19/2017 19:37:05 >
Post #: 525
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