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What do you believe Cysero's capabilities are? How strong is he?

 
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5/13/2017 18:01:15   
FriendOfAFriend
Member

With what we've seen of him and his sudden emergence of being mentioned in forum discussion, I thought it'd be interesting to see what the forums thought about everyones favorite Mad Weaponsmith!

The topic of discussion is the title. Keep it civil, but don't be afraid to get in discussions with other people! I'm sure this is gonna be an amazing post full of interesting discussion :D
Post #: 1
5/13/2017 21:09:42   
SoullessButProud
Member

He has to be one of the strongest characters in df. not because of magical power or physical prowess but because he defies logic. if you put cysero into a situation the possibilities are endless e.g. travelling back in time 8 times to steal the bacon orb 8 times to create the ultimate orb of bacon.

< Message edited by SoullessButProud -- 5/13/2017 21:13:53 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 2
5/13/2017 22:57:06   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

he is a mcguffin he has the powers of a mcguffin and will only be used when a mcguffin is needed...that is all.


he is funny outside of that and i enjoy him when he is not being op.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 3
5/14/2017 4:58:23   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

^What Urmi said.

Cysero has never actually exhibited any powers beyond that of a normal mage. He just seems to know a lot of obscure things, many of which relate to magic.
DF MQ  Post #: 4
5/14/2017 7:26:35   
dark garuda
Member

Potentially among the strongest of all, but equally likely a complete pushover. He's really not much of a fighter. Sometimes he'll make a world-shattering difference, other times he'll just be sitting and scratching his tush. What would happen is mostly dependent upon how Cysero himself happens to be feeling at that time of day.

I can't even say that he's the kind of character that would unleash what normally goes unused, if he was actually under an honest-to-goodness threat on his life. I doubt he'd even be aware, much less care!

So he's not really a character where you can go: 'he's definitely stronger than x'. It's almost all variable. He's a deus ex machina; granted, that's generally used as a derogatory term, but in Cysero's case it is what he's always represented for Lore. In many ways you could say that Cysero capriciously pulling out an unpredictable solution to a problem at the last moment is... well, by now it's pretty much what you expect to happen. His presence makes unpredictable things predictable, silly as that sounds. That's where his real power begins and ends.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
5/14/2017 8:08:53   
Sneevillord
Member

I view him in a Tom Bombadil-esque fashion, a character with immensity, but perhaps not power. He doesn't feel the need to defend himself or attack another because despite his ridiculousness, he doesn't take the danger seriously, as its not a danger to him. But then again, like Bombadil, if all the world needed his help, he would act, yet he'd never take it very seriously. All he is, is Cysero. "He is."

EDIT: I means... uh... weird man with boxes!

< Message edited by Sneevillord -- 5/14/2017 8:13:14 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 6
5/14/2017 13:47:12   
Kashlikaro
Member

Cysero is definitely one of the strongest Mages - when infiltrating Drakonnan's lair, Zorbak says there's exactly 3 currently active Mages strong enough to forcibly remove the forcefield - himself, Cysero, and Warlic.

That being said, he generally refrains from using is absurd power other than for his own amusement, breakfast, or furthering the progression of magic...which generally satisfies the either or both of the first of the two circumstances.

They haven't used him that much in Book 3, though.
DF  Post #: 7
5/14/2017 14:00:31   
dragon_monster
Member

I do not doubt he is a amazing mage probably the strongest on Lore but not only his magic its dangerous which it is like shrink you for years and let you like that still. His intelligence and creativity you know how he would have destroyed the barrier not with magic but nitroglicerine something that he invented. That would have destroyed the barrier and the fortress.

Besides this its proven he has many tricks up his sleeve. Only the shrinking makes him godlike in power and probably can even go the other way make you a giant. And 20 years ago he was as young as he is now so he knows how to keep himself young that is some magic.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 8
5/14/2017 14:35:54   
FriendOfAFriend
Member

quote:

Cysero has never actually exhibited any powers beyond that of a normal mage.


Well I'd say that's probably false. Sure, the crazy things he's done are, well, crazy, but they're still officially feats. Don't think your 'normal mage' is someone, who as stated by Zorbak, was only one of 3 possible people who could have broken Drakkonnan's force field (Zorbak, Warlic and Cysero) were the three
Post #: 9
5/14/2017 21:13:09   
Greyor_42
Member

@dark garuda

um, cysero ISN'T a deus ex machina. as i said before in another thread, he has ACCESS to quite a few of them, but he ISN'T one himself.


anyways, he's DEFINITELY one of the most powerful mages in history, as his magic allows him to do things that apparently aren't logically possible in lore....which is actually saying quite a bit since what passes for logic in lore is.... well.....


@dragon_monster
quote:

nitroglicerine something that he invented


cysero never actually INVENTED nitroglycerin(at least, it was never STATED that he did). he was just crazy enough to decide to soak sponges in the stuff and throw them at enemies. sooo, what he ACTUALLY invented, was dynamite. and lim says that cysero isn't a scientist........
DF  Post #: 10
5/14/2017 21:16:52   
dragon_monster
Member

Yeah Lim has his view on what is an scientist but it does not mean he is right. But can you say that Cysero is not and inventor after all his invention. He has an shop with weapons he created.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 11
5/15/2017 1:45:18   
dark garuda
Member

Cysero isn't a deus ex machina? Nonsense. He may not be a God, but that's irrelevant to the standard definition of the term, which denotes an unexpected power or circumstance saving a seemingly-hopeless situation. Cysero's done that at least twice off the top of my head, and there're probably other times I am not currently remembering. He's pretty much a textbook example of it. It doesn't matter that he uses a device or an idea instead of his own direct power to sort things, if he's the originator of the solution in the narrative, then he's the ex machina.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 12
5/15/2017 1:59:15   
Greyor_42
Member

@dark garuda

incorrect. the deus ex machina is the DEVICE that he used. not him.

and yes, it actually DOES matter. otherwise, anyone who EVER once used what is ACTUALLY a deus ex machina(like in dragonfable's case, the bacon orb, or specifically the fusion of 8 of them, which was LITERALLY called the "deus ex baconia" in the design notes) would be considered a deus ex machina. which is incorrect.

and you very much forgot a MAJOR requirement to be called a "deus ex machina". it has to be a COMPLETELY NEW or UNRELATED developement to the story. cysero is very much, not a new developement. and he hasn't been for a while. and in the situations where he saved the day, he ALSO wasn't unrelated. in FACT he was quite involved in the final 13th, since he was HELPING FORM THE LIGHT SHIELD.

also, i wasn't using the literal translation. i didn't even assume that you were.......

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 5/15/2017 2:05:40 >
DF  Post #: 13
5/15/2017 2:27:07   
FriendOfAFriend
Member

Regardless, if everything Cysero does is 'deus ex machina', as in those are literally the only things we have so far to compare feats with, isn't that just a point in his favor?
Post #: 14
5/15/2017 3:05:46   
dark garuda
Member

That major requirement that I 'very much forgot', doesn't actually exist. There's no needing for it to be the work of a completely new character. If anything, it can be more frequent than not that a previously less-remarkable character is the one that ultimately unveils and saves the day. I don't understand why there even is a disagreement. He came up with the idea of the Ultimate Bacon Orb and enabled its making, which gave the Hero a sporting chance where there was previously none. It was his doing, he intervened (well, when asked) and provided the solution. It doesn't need to be the case that they're a hitherto-unseen character at all. If the solution's an unexpected but ultimately necessary one, it's deus. The Hero may have dealt the final blow, but again, that's after he was put on close to even footing by Cysero.

This is a pretty dumb argument, though: it's semantics. I agree with Friend on this. For the most part, he either does close to absolutely nothing, or it's a very powerful action. And for most of his powerful actions, they're represented by him as being not much of an effort at all on his part. Or they're taken for the benefit of something trivial (because he doesn't really have any priorities). That would suggest that his actual potential power, if he needed to use it, would be even higher.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 15
5/15/2017 4:02:20   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

quote:

~original: @FriendOfAFriend
Don't think your 'normal mage' is someone, who as stated by Zorbak, was only one of 3 possible people who could have broken Drakkonnan's force field (Zorbak, Warlic and Cysero) were the three

As @dragon_monster already pointed out, Cysero stated himself that the solution was a sponge soaked in nitroglycerin. That's not magic; that's science. Hence it falls under the category of him knowing
quote:

~original: @Shiny_Underpants
a lot of obscure things


quote:

~original: @dark garuda
And for most of his powerful actions, they're represented by him as being not much of an effort at all on his part. Or they're taken for the benefit of something trivial (because he doesn't really have any priorities). That would suggest that his actual potential power, if he needed to use it, would be even higher.

Well, it would logically follow that someone so uncaring would be unaffected by the results of whatever it is they don't care about. However, Cysero is not swayed by logic, and not caring about things that directly affect you is, well, insane behaviour.

quote:

~original: @Greyor_42
and you very much forgot a MAJOR requirement to be called a "deus ex machina". it has to be a COMPLETELY NEW or UNRELATED developement to the story.

According to that requirement, the 'deus ex baconia' was not even a deus ex machina, since the Bacon Orb was set up before the finale; it had its own questchain.

As far as I recall, the most powerful magic Cysero has done is merge a cat with a book. His creations are strange, but that's mainly to do with their design, not any measure of raw power.
Mostly, Cysero's main skill is paying attention to obscure things.
And he possesses the most important skill; knowing when to run, as with the time booth.

< Message edited by Shiny_Underpants -- 5/15/2017 4:03:26 >
DF MQ  Post #: 16
5/15/2017 4:18:04   
Alamiran
Member

The greatest act of power he's performed, as I stated in a previous tread, is transforming the Guardian Tower into a fish. All other things he's done was due to his craziness and creativity. The time booth WAS his own idea, but the way I understand it, the blueprints for it was either created through a time paradox, or with Lim's help.

Cysero IS powerful, perhaps the most powerful human being on Lore, but not anywhere near the level of Warlic's TRUE power, without the restrictions. I'd say Cysero is just below Avatar level, about as powerful as an Avatar of Bacon would be, assuming that Bacon is just slightly less powerful than each of the other elements, as it is an artificially created element. That would also be kinda fitting, as he has food related super powerful magic.
To add to that, he also is crazy and insanely creative, to the point of accidentally inventing something similar to dynamite, just not safe at all, and more BOOM'y.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 17
5/15/2017 9:21:19   
FriendOfAFriend
Member

If we take his word, he 'starts wars in alternate dimensions' and deems it a normal day for himself. Dont think oure giving him quite enough credit, Shiny:p
Post #: 18
5/15/2017 11:15:19   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

^Starting wars isn't the hard part; wars are the breaking of tensions between at least two nations, and, as has been proven countless times throughout history, any pleb can do that. The hard part about wars is ending them.
Knowing Cysero, he probably found himself in a zone deemed sacrosanct, and both sides considered him to be a member of the opposite side breaking their peace treaties...

In my way of looking at things, being being intelligent is a far more admirable skill than being able to flatten every opponent who may rise against you, so you could say I'm actually giving him more credit than he deserves.

And I did forget about the Guardian Tower. I don't believe I've done the quest in which that happened. However, transfiguring a building still isn't even approaching Warlic or Avatar scale, and even that is assuming Cysero didn't use any magical artifacts to do it.
quote:

~original: @Alamiran
I'd say Cysero is just below Avatar level

Why do you think that? Surely the Avatars can do things involving many times the power than turning a tower into a fish.

I just don't see what indicates that Cysero has any capabilities exceeding that of a normal mage, apart from his knowledge- both scientific and arcane.
DF MQ  Post #: 19
5/15/2017 11:39:07   
dragon_monster
Member

Does his knowledge both scientific and arcane not add to his power rating? Knowing spells others do not and having artifacts that others do not do not make you weaker it makes you stronger.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 20
5/15/2017 12:17:55   
dark garuda
Member

The fish thing, I wouldn't say that's the most powerful work of his that's represented. There have been others, it's just that he doesn't want to use them. His gaff is almost stuffed with enchanted objects which can destroy continents purely by someone being foolhardy enough to touch them. Cysero himself tries his best not to activate them because even in his perma-addled state, he understands that blowing up a continent is a bit of a dick move. His enchantments and his powers are certainly unpredictable, but they're without restriction which is something very unique. Even the Avatars are gated in that they're not permitted to imbalance the realms severely when using their powers. Raw potential power may not be as potent, but we know for sure that he's got enough to level continents with an enchantment. Now, to be fair, science and magiscience seem to be extremely powerful in general with DF, albeit less commonly-practised than magic. For the arcane, destroying worlds is a feat limited to the select few alone. From science... well, even Lim managed to create a miniature black hole, which could have achieved the same.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 21
5/15/2017 13:25:15   
Greyor_42
Member

@shiny_underpants


quote:

According to that requirement, the 'deus ex baconia' was not even a deus ex machina, since the Bacon Orb was set up before the finale; it had its own questchain.


actually it DOES fit, since up until we decided to get 8 of it, it was completely unrelated to the finale. like i said, new OR unrelated.


also, you act like him turning a guardian tower into a living fish isn't impressive at all. even by dragonfable's standards, that really shouldn't be possible. AND when he did that, he ALSO turned all the guardians inside it into lipless ducks.
@dark garuda

i didn't say "new character", i said "new or unrelated developement". cysero was neither new OR unrelated. the bacon orbs WERE unrelated, thus THEY were deus ex machina, but cysero wasn't. him coming up with the idea doesn't make HIM a deus ex machina, either. all he did was INFORM us of a deus ex machina.
DF  Post #: 22
5/15/2017 16:07:36   
FriendOfAFriend
Member

quote:


I just don't see what indicates that Cysero has any capabilities exceeding that of a normal mage, apart from his knowledge- both scientific and arcane.


I get what you're saying now. Alright, fair enough, some of it may be less thanks to his pure raw power and more thanks to his skill and intelligence. But the thing is that he's clearly much more well versed and talented than a normal mage. Cysero a'int your normal mage or even limited by them. Going to alternate dimensions in itself is great (he made the time booth, right?).

And the thing with Zorbak, he said that he, Cysero AND Warlic were the only 3 mages alive or something strong enough to break Drakonan's shield, and that was BEFORE knowing that Cysero's plan was simply nerogogog whatever sponges, which implies well enough that Zorbak views Cysero highly.

So a lot of his things are crazy and probably down to him being a, well, Mad Weaponsmith, but I have to disagree with you on stating that he has no capabilities exceeding a normal mage. He might not be Warlic but to imply that he's on equal footing with any average mage might be too harsh :P

(Also Cysero is my favorite so bias)
Post #: 23
5/15/2017 16:11:00   
dragon_monster
Member

By the way does anyone knows an normal mage in DF?
quote:

Zorbak: Hmph, I've come to help you.
Zorbak: I don't exactly want to see my nice, dank, dark Lair of Ultimate Ev...
Zorbak: *cough*
Zorbak: ...Ebil.
Artix: Why on Lore would we accept your help, especially as you have chosen the side of evil?
Zorbak: Ebil.
Zorbak: Simple. You have no other choice.
Zorbak: There are three beings present who are powerful enough to break through that force field...
Zorbak: One wants to do it with a sponge soaked in nitroglycerin which will just make a smoking crater, and the other has...
Zorbak: ...limits on his magic and just might make the whole planet a smoking crater.


But Zorbak knew what Cysero wanted. By the way Zorbak said present not on the planet so we might have overexagerated with the feat.

< Message edited by dragon_monster -- 5/15/2017 16:14:10 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 24
5/15/2017 17:00:25   
FriendOfAFriend
Member

Ah, must have forgotten how that scene played out. My mistake!
Post #: 25
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