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RE: So why do you think the hero was not invited to any ball before?

 
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5/19/2017 13:57:05   
dragon_monster
Member

quote:

well, considering the ENTIRE KINGDOM rebelled against siugwrath, yes, alteon overthrowing him WAS a good thing.

No proof of that except in AQW and that was mistake considering their situation now. Also how did Drakath managed to make the bandit army if what you say its true?

quote:

oh man, it's SUCH a bad thing that he failed to stop a creature more powerful than the chaos dragon of prophesy, and that he had literally NO chance of being able to.......

Except it was at that time because our chaos dragon of prophesy had no fire orb and for most of his rampage Arkiloth did not had one. So no.

quote:

basically the same story as akriloth. xan was able to kill half a million people with a SINGLE SPELL. but sure, alteon COULD have stopped him, he just didn't try hard enough.

Except I checked the quest and Xan destoryed his half an million army with an hidden army of elementals of his own he destroyed his elite knights with and spell who made an shield to protect the king.

quote:

yes, but up until valtrith was revived(again), book 3 WAS peaceful. and again, valtrith is more or less the same story as xan and akriloth. as was caitiff...

No not true he was not that powerful I am sorry but Varlith was not that strong and impossible to take. There was also Yalla before Varlith which helped resurrect him was it necessary well probably not but she was an factor in his ressurection.

quote:

the title was't meant to make the hero a hero.... it was to RECOGNIZE their heroic acts, and THANK the hero for them. that's IT.

Pretty much the cheap something. I least I got an cape its not like the hero saved his life or anything.

quote:

........seriously?!? when did alteon EVER "take the hero for granted"? that makes no sense!

For the entire book 1 and 2 he took us for granted getting thanks only from him in return. When we where gone now that he saw he could not manage without the hero he sponsored the Rose. Now that he knows he took us for granted in Book 3 he was excited to see us invited us to an galla. Before that he needed an bodyguard when we went to him. Check lucky book 3 and you will see.
How is that an problem well because he did not realized our importance he could care less we where in ice or disappeared which well helped bring the events with the Rose in motion. Basically he failed to realize the problems that will come if we are gone and failed to prepare for it. If he did there will not be the need of an organization that is how it is to deal with the issues of Greenguard.

< Message edited by dragon_monster -- 5/19/2017 13:58:32 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 51
5/19/2017 15:19:36   
Alamiran
Member

@Greyor I agree

@Above I agree

@Dragon_monster (ealier post) I would say that Alteon IS rewarding the Hero enough. More than enough actually. First, he made the Hero his 301st ELITE knight, which is probably a very prestigeful title, as there was only ever a total of 300 of them. Also, I'm pretty sure (meaning that I admittedly have no evidence) that it is the Kingdom of Greenguard that supports the Guardian Order and also partially the Dragonlord Order. I mean, who else would finance them? Robina can only put so much gold on the forest creatures (which Alteon knows about, but still lets her do, in order to support the heroes) so the Guardians MUST get money from somewhere (maybe they sell egg and bacon too?).

And besides, couldn't it also be that it's the king that gives us the major storyline badges? Like "Fire Extinquisher" and "Final 13th"? My point is, the King actually DOES honor the Hero for what he does. IRL the kings didn't just GIVE palaces and tons of gold to people, just because they won wars. The general who led the forces of England against Napoleon at the Battle of Waterloo got honored, but he wasn't get any more money than his salary (at least not to my knowledge).

< Message edited by Alamiran -- 5/19/2017 15:21:09 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 52
5/19/2017 15:24:44   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster

quote:

No proof of that except in AQW and that was mistake considering their situation now. Also how did Drakath managed to make the bandit army if what you say its true?


except that slugwrath's reign has been mentioned quite a few times in DF history, and every time, it was more or less stated to be bad times in the kingdom. as for drakath organizing the darkwolf bandits, like i SAID slugwrath allowed bandits to do whatever as long as he got a cut. drakath probably promised something similar in exchange for helping him reclaim the throne.

quote:

Except it was at that time because our chaos dragon of prophesy had no fire orb and for most of his rampage Arkiloth did not had one. So no.


akriloth was STILL the great dragon of fire, which put it pretty close in power to the avatar of fire. so yes.

quote:

Except I checked the quest and Xan destoryed his half an million army with an hidden army of elementals of his own he destroyed his elite knights with and spell who made an shield to protect the king.


still doesn't change the fact that it was KIND of an unavoidable defeat. consider the fact that xan could have used that single spell at ANY time, and MULTIPLE times, since it clearly didn't drain anything from him. he could have easily just spammed that spell and soloed all of falconreach, all of alteon's men, AND the hero, and killed all of them at literally any time he wanted.

quote:

No not true he was not that powerful I am sorry but Varlith was not that strong and impossible to take. There was also Yalla before Varlith which helped resurrect him was it necessary well probably not but she was an factor in his ressurection.


he had a cloak that gave him DIRECT access to the plane of darkness(or something similar), and he's "not that powerful"? okay....... besides, unlike xan and akriloth, valtrith had hundreds of thousands of devout followers who would give their lives to fight for him, just so that they could be reainimated and do it again. and he could PLAN around that.

quote:

Pretty much the cheap something. I least I got an cape its not like the hero saved his life or anything.


again, the hero DOES get a sword. and you DID say you wanted a title, yet somehow, him already having given you a title before you even asked for it makes him ungrateful, and a bad king. i'm seeing some pretty contradictory statements there....

quote:

For the entire book 1 and 2 he took us for granted getting thanks only from him in return. When we where gone now that he saw he could not manage without the hero he sponsored the Rose. Now that he knows he took us for granted in Book 3 he was excited to see us invited us to an galla. Before that he needed an bodyguard when we went to him. Check lucky book 3 and you will see.


first off, where in that is he taking the hero for granted? secondly, yes, he had a bodyguard. you know, something that literally EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN CHARGE OF A NATION HAS. most of them have at least two or three. even if they ARE capable of defending themselves just fine. him having a bodyguard means literally nothing.

seriously, you are reaching REALLY far for these arguments. they can be countered INCREDIBLY easy. but, i'm going to be smart, and pull out now, before you drag me into another seven page argument where the same exact thing gets repeated over and over again.
DF  Post #: 53
5/19/2017 15:30:45   
dragon_monster
Member

@Almiran I like history and he was in the end a duke after all the general who won at Waterloo which he gained from other successful campaigns. Now I wonder why the hero is not an duke. Now I am even more annoyed at Alteon that cheap something. No galla no medal, no sword just an cape and the title of elite knight big deal. Why are you hero an good two-shoes why?
I really hope this game will prosper and someday do not care when we will meet the evil us.

But medieval kings by the way did gave tons of money for winning wars quite an lot and titles and land and servants and other things that I can talk about here.

Can they not finance themselves? I mean from mercenary work like the hero does for V Crossing or Robina or all kind of random people he meets or not so random? The guardians and the dragon lord order I mean.

@above I know you are still I am not.
quote:

except that slugwrath's reign has been mentioned quite a few times in DF history, and every time, it was more or less stated to be bad times in the kingdom. as for drakath organizing the darkwolf bandits, like i SAID slugwrath allowed bandits to do whatever as long as he got a cut. drakath probably promised something similar in exchange for helping him reclaim the throne.

Pretty sure it was not mentioned that often besides Robina really not mentions that I can remember and she was probably not even born back then.

quote:

akriloth was STILL the great dragon of fire, which put it pretty close in power to the avatar of fire. so yes.

You know there is an entire dragonlord order with huge dragons that could fight Akriloth why not ask their help?There is also the skythe.

quote:

still doesn't change the fact that it was KIND of an unavoidable defeat. consider the fact that xan could have used that single spell at ANY time, and MULTIPLE times, since it clearly didn't drain anything from him. he could have easily just spammed that spell and soloed all of falconreach, all of alteon's men, AND the hero, and killed all of them at literally any time he wanted.


A defeat yes but almost total anihilation could be done just By Xan an competent general will have saved some soldiers.

quote:

he had a cloak that gave him DIRECT access to the plane of darkness(or something similar), and he's "not that powerful"? okay....... besides, unlike xan and akriloth, valtrith had hundreds of thousands of devout followers who would give their lives to fight for him, just so that they could be reainimated and do it again. and he could PLAN around that.


The her beat Varlith 3 times yes I consider the first meeting a defeat for Valrith also an defeat so that will mean that the hero can take on armies. I am sure he can with his huge dragon but come on.

quote:

again, the hero DOES get a sword. and you DID say you wanted a title, yet somehow, him already having given you a title before you even asked for it makes him ungrateful, and a bad king. i'm seeing some pretty contradictory statements there....


It was not from the king it from the citizens of Falconreach the sword I mean. Yeah he made the hero an knight for saving him but for the other feats that saved his kingdom? Nothing really nothing but thanks.

quote:

first off, where in that is he taking the hero for granted? secondly, yes, he had a bodyguard. you know, something that literally EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN CHARGE OF A NATION HAS. most of them have at least two or three. even if they ARE capable of defending themselves just fine. him having a bodyguard means literally nothing.


You miss the point the king did not prepare for the hero being gone that is why he took him for granted. Such an person really needs to be valued more or make plans in case of the disappearance of the person.
The king did not realized the burden of protecting the kingdom was so hard without the hero. Did he managed well sorta of he got the Rose but if he realized it sooner there will not be an need for the Rose. This was an mystake that repercussion that we see now.


< Message edited by dragon_monster -- 5/19/2017 15:48:30 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 54
5/19/2017 15:34:10   
FriendOfAFriend
Member

quote:

title of elite knight big deal.


It is a big deal, glad you're finally realizing that.

quote:

Why are you hero an good two-shoes why?


Because we're a Hero, not a mercenary. Don't get the two mixed up. The canon story is that we're a hero, and, don't freak out, a good person. YOUR non-canon interpretation is that the hero is an evil person who only helps for money and would probably kill their best friends for gold.

So yeah, we're a 'goody two shoes'. That's literally the end of it.
Post #: 55
5/19/2017 15:40:56   
Alamiran
Member

@Dragon_monster Akriloth has never been seen rampaging in DF before getting the Fire Orb. He did in AQ, but not in DF. And even if Xan didn't kill all the 500.000 knights with one spell, he still killed 300 very strong warriors with one spell. AND he had an army that was more powerful than 500.000 trained warriors. He had the element of surprise, but he had already been fighting against the heroes of Falconreach for some time then. And Valtrith's army was almost as big as Seppy's and nearly overwhelmed the whole kingdom. Valtrith himself wasn't as strong as Seppy, but when he was rivived the 2nd time, he had Caitiff with him.

As for taking the Hero for granted, that's IMO more similar to the Empire in Star Wars taking their Death Star for granted (I could make a real life example, but it would probably be deleted). Someone like the Hero is not so easy to replace. Through all the time the Hero was becoming world famous the Kingdom of Greenguard was constantly at war with Seppy or Wargoth. Alteon doesn't have unlimited resorces at his disposition at any time, and most certainly not with a kingdom in ruins. He must have been busy (VERY busy) getting his kingdom up and running again, and Jaania offered to help him with that. Who wouldn't accept such an offer, when you've just been on the edge of TWO apocalypses (three if you count Nivalis and Isathaara) and your kingdom is in ruins?

Besides, it was probably Jaania who fixed the elemental dissonance after she froze the Hero, (I'm basing this in the design note about the original story for Book 2, can't find it right now) so the King kinda owed her one for that.

Alright, I was wrong about the Napoleon part then. When you think about it, there hasn't really been any real life parallels to a hero. Then what about Superman, he doesn't get paid for saving the world. He gets honored, he doesn't get paid.

But medieval kings did SPEND a lot of money on wars, they didn't GIVE land and money to those who won wars FOR them. giving land to people was like literally giving away your power. The more land you had in medieval times, the more land you owned, the more power you had. The king didn't have power to just give away land that didn't belong to him personally, the landlords were the ones who MADE him king. In my country the kings had A LOT of problems with greedy landlords.

If the Hero wanted to, he could probably just overthrow the king and take the throne for himself, for the Avatars' sake, pr at least he could have before he was frozen. In medieval times, your statement that "might makes right" was actually kinda true. But it was also true that "Aurum Potestas Est" (gold is power). Without money, you couldn't raise an army, and you couldn't have a kingdom.

Which brings me to my next point, if the Guardians and Dragonlords are financing themselves with mercenary work, which I agree that they probably are, then who are they working for? They are in the Kingdom of Greenguard, so the king is involved in every conflict they could possibly be involved with themselves. And how do they pay for training their soldiers, making weapons and raising dragons in times of peace, if they don't have some sort pf fixed deal with the king?

< Message edited by Alamiran -- 5/19/2017 16:08:54 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 56
5/19/2017 15:59:15   
dragon_monster
Member

quote:


Because we're a Hero, not a mercenary. Don't get the two mixed up. The canon story is that we're a hero, and, don't freak out, a good person. YOUR non-canon interpretation is that the hero is an evil person who only helps for money and would probably kill their best friends for gold.

So yeah, we're a 'goody two shoes'. That's literally the end of it.

Yeah so terrible. Well what can we do we are gonna play the goody two shoes. But no not evil head canon more like neutral think like Deathpool just not as funny or immortal or as fourth wall breaking. If you think he is evil well its fine there is proof for that also and that he is good also.

@above that is not true there is another amazing person that can replace us and has an great ice dragon and its already famous and its an good person.

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=16349738

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=16109340

See here its shows that Akriloth rampaged for years. Sorry the king was really incompetent here.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 57
5/19/2017 16:15:22   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster

being unable to defeat a dragon that has been stated to be the most powerful creature up to that point, AND is specifically a great dragon, doesn't make one incompetent. just because you aren't "OMGBBQ ultra OP god-tier super strong" doesn't mean you're incompetent.


quote:

like Deathpool just not as funny or immortal or as fourth wall breaking.


please. the hero breaks the fourth wall and cracks jokes PLENTY of times. they even broke the fourth wall quite recently, during the april fools quest.

quote:


hero: s-something was... was wrong with the... background
hero:who wrote this?!
hero: WHO WROTE THIS?!?
DF  Post #: 58
5/19/2017 16:20:46   
Alamiran
Member

First, I edited my previous post, just notifying everyone.
@Dragon_monster Second, Vilmor is not as powerful as the Hero. And it's my understanding that Cryozen is dead. And she beat us yes, but that was when we only had been attuned to three of the orbs. We must have become AT LEAST twice as powerful as we were back then by attuning with the other six orbs. And then we became attuned to the five gates in the True Mortal saga, making us even more powerful.

And, who knows, perhaps the king had a view on magic similar to Jaania's at the time.

< Message edited by Alamiran -- 5/19/2017 16:21:46 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 59
5/19/2017 16:22:11   
dragon_monster
Member

@Greyor I mean as fourth wall breaking, like in the same amount as Deathpool which by the way there is not other comic book character that breaks it that often or even video game character for that matter.

But going back to the topic there are ways to stop Akriloth even if he was god tier. We used an way so there is that. Also it does not change my argument that he could not do anything good not try to. In the end he still has to do something good in these soon 12 of the game for me to be wrong. Even if we excuse why he could not do the good he still did not do any good. Good luck making sense of this.
quote:

Which brings me to my next point, if the Guardians and Dragonlords are financing themselves with mercenary work, which I agree that they probably are, then who are they working for? They are in the Kingdom of Greenguard, so the king is involved in every conflict they could possibly be involved with themselves. And how do they pay for training their soldiers, making weapons and raising dragons in times of peace, if they don't have some sort pf fixed deal with the king?

Oh interesting question lets answer it first Lore called the Land of Rising Evil probably never had peace no issue with no mercenary work. They probably work for local lords, small villages and small cities or big cities. You see in Moonridge well the dragonlords work for the city there. In Falconreach and Willshpire the last not being part of Greenguard they work for the city the guardians.

quote:

But medieval kings did SPEND a lot of money on wars, they didn't GIVE land and money to those who won wars FOR them. giving land to people was like literally giving away your power. The more land you had in medieval times, the more land you owned, the more power you had. The king didn't have power to just give away land that didn't belong to him personally, the landlords were the ones who MADE him king. In my country the kings had A LOT of problems with greedy landlords.


But they did give land and money to the one who won wars for them from the ones who won wars from even for defensive wars for example William Wallace was given land and titles and money as lord protector of Scotland there more examples of this if you want. So really the king is one cheap something and we are an goody two shoes and do not nothing about it.

By the way Superman while he beats people he does not do it for no good reason the hero does beat people for no good reason. There is an difference here.


< Message edited by dragon_monster -- 5/19/2017 16:37:27 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 60
5/19/2017 16:38:43   
FriendOfAFriend
Member

Put literally ANYONE ELSE in his place and the same thing would have happened.

You are hating Alteon because he isn't as strong as Seppy, That is what this is.
Post #: 61
5/19/2017 16:47:21   
dragon_monster
Member

Or the hero or Jaania or Xan or Kara or the dragonlord purple lady or Leon or Aisha basically because they actually managed something in 12 years in this game. Yeah he is useless. Win an war make an peaceful kingdom bring the kingdom together defend you kingdom successfully anything.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 62
5/19/2017 16:55:59   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster


quote:

there is not other comic book character that breaks it that often or even video game character for that matter.


clearly, you've never read garfield, who does it in almost EVERY strip, and has been literally doing it since day one, back in june 19, 1978. in fact, the first thing ever DONE in garfield, was establish that the fourth wall doesn't exist. by introducing themselves to the audience.

then there's the manga/anime known as gintama, where they actively acknowledge the fact that their world is entirely fictional. there's actually an entire season where they war over the results of their popularity poll, and one of them goes and beats up the AUTHOR for scoring higher than her.

and hayate the combat butler, where in the anime, the fact that they're in an anime is adressed almost every episode. the same is done in the manga, and it takes a VERY long time for them to actually repair the fourth wall.

so, in short, there are actually quite a few characters who break the fourth wall even MORE than deadpool does.
DF  Post #: 63
5/19/2017 16:58:55   
FriendOfAFriend
Member

@Dragon: They managed to do BAD things, from your perspective. Unless you're done hating Jaania?

You are confirming that you hate Alteon because he's A: Not God level and B: Not evil.

You like evil, horrible people. We all know that. But just because Alteon doesn't pillage and murder babies like Vlad the Impaler doesn't make him a failure XD
Post #: 64
5/19/2017 17:06:37   
dragon_monster
Member

@Greyor
Forgot about Garfield and about the manga characters well I think of them as separate from comic books characters. And anime well anime I once saw an anime that if fourth wall breaking all the way. But the hero does not break as often as Deathpool and since Deathpool is an video game character also and broke the fourth wall an lot there well he surpassed the hero even as an video game character.

@above not really hate more like dislike how usless he is. I expect a king to manage to do things not try actually do something. But as shown he is usless for almost 12 years and going. But defend him if you want because for some reason he really deserves it you know why.

< Message edited by dragon_monster -- 5/19/2017 17:10:45 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 65
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