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8/29/2017 20:03:53   
Edme MacHeath

According to Tendurr The Assistant, if you have Crag And Bamboozle you can assisting crag and bamboozle to obtain Elder's Blood, which assuming you already have all the other possible drops maxed out, that will be the only that drops right? the quest requires sparrows blood so it's a daily but using this, wouldn't players theoretically be able to cut down vhl farming time mimimums by half.
You need 17 Elder's Blood and this would get you 2 of them per day. So 9 days instead of 17 is pretty nice.

According to the Wikipedia, these 2 elder bloods are the same item, and while this might require you to buy or own a 5k AC pet, this would work right? People could theoretically farm VHL in nearly half the time. The only problem with this would be you need to farm 2 roents every day except the last. I believe that still is possible, just incredibly hard as unless it takes you 12 hours or longer to farm a roent then you might be good, although this would be kinda unrealistic of spending basically all day for over a week farming vhl, but I'm not trying to argue the realism, just the theoretically possibility.

Perhaps I'm wrong and you could still receive items you already max stacked at in this situation but even then, there is still potential to lessen the time, its just not as viable.

Removed bug abuse discussion. ~Shadowhunt

< Message edited by Shadowhunt -- 8/29/2017 21:00:44 >
AQ  Post #: 451
8/30/2017 1:03:05   

Yah, it certainly can be done. And having the max-stack of all the other drops will guarantee the Elder's Blood dropping, since the quest reward system is one of the following. So theoretically, you could get VHL in 7 days (15 Roent + 2 for Void Crystal B, and then pre-stacking 3 of them, so 2 a day for a week). Haven't met anybody who was able to do this though. Although a friend did get 15 Roents in 10 days, partially due to this.
DF AQW  Post #: 452
8/30/2017 7:20:53   

I have now done 28 30 turn ins of the Void Spartan quest, still no armor in sight, I'm also missing the Sword + Shield, but that's not a priority for me, I'm probably gonna stop, or severely slow down if I get the armor first.
That's 450 Diamonds, 300 Gems, 30 Uni 13s, 15 Million gold (not that gold is an issue for me, but it's a matter of getting a point through) and a lot of murdered Flame Soldiers. And still more to come.

Also, a quick question, If you were in no need of Uni 13s, would it be faster to farm Gems and Diamonds individually (Only the Strong Survive Today and Voucher Item: Totem of Nulgath), or just keep sticking with CVKS?
The only other items I don't have stacked to max from CVKS is Tainted Gems, so it's not a matter of "CVKS having other rewards".

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 8/30/2017 8:38:07 >
AQW  Post #: 453
8/30/2017 11:14:56   

Speaking of gold, I'm curious what the "best" method to quickly farm it would be. Considering I'm casually working on VHL, and now distracted by the Void Spartan quest, I've been burning through a lot of gold. I remember Vorpal Bunny used to be very good, but it feels so slow when actually using it.
AQW Epic  Post #: 454
8/30/2017 11:17:40   

@above BattlegroundE or F
focus on the rest of the resources before gold though, otherwise you might go over the cap unintentionally

< Message edited by ShadowMoon -- 8/30/2017 11:18:35 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 455
8/30/2017 13:54:33   


Well, I am upgraded, so wouldn't Honorhall be better than the Lettered battlegrounds, anyway? Also, right now I'm trying to get (at least most of) the Spartan set, so gold is the biggest resource drain for me. With CVKS, diamonds, contracts and gems aren't much of an issue.

AQW Epic  Post #: 456
8/30/2017 15:21:05   
The Finnish Phoenix

Quest drop rates rear their ugly head again. ._.

I was lucky to get Void Spartan on the 8th turn-in but condemn this style of quest design without a surefire alternative.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 457
8/30/2017 17:25:51   

Since you're upgraded, then Tendurr The Assistant is your best option. Depending on your luck and which class you use for solos, you can complete the quest Game of Gemstones in 5~15 min for 200k gold (add a boost and testing servers+boosting set, and you'll get 600k gold).
AQW  Post #: 458
8/31/2017 21:02:28   

Continuing my farm for VHL ill be done soon with the 15x Totems and 150x Gems. Since I dont have any special pets what would be the best way to get Tainted gems and Dark Crystal Shards?
DF AQW  Post #: 459
8/31/2017 21:15:44   
Snow Angel, Bug Hunter, Class Tester

Both the Farming Guide and the Nation Guide have sections so you can take a look at those. But basically you'll be using the Sword of Nulgath quests for both of them. If you don't have one of your own (which for a Hero would probably be the 8th Betrayal Blade), you can get access to one of the others pretty easily (like the Blade of Revontheus the Good Pet) and just use it from the store preview. Essence of Defeat for DCSes, Cube Reagent for TGs.
AQ AQW  Post #: 460
9/4/2017 21:59:09   


Why the droprate for phleign is sooooo low?, took me 3 hours to get a simple '' Slime Fang''.

Is that the game or is that I'm not having luck.
AQW  Post #: 461
9/5/2017 1:54:45   

@Martin, yah, unfortunately slime fangs have a really low drop rate. Just keep at it. It's a lot harder now that not many people are still farming the phlegn boss. If it's any comfort, Bloody fangs and the other misc material have a pretty decent drop rate.
DF AQW  Post #: 462
9/7/2017 23:07:35   
The Finnish Phoenix

Gem of Nulgath pet data, for those interested. (Props to The ErosionSeeker for the idea and getting me to track the turn-ins.)

All turn-ins were done on the test server, as on regular servers the Forge Tainteds/DCS/Diamonds/Blood Gems quests are bugged so that only one of the rewards can drop when they're supposed to drop any of the rewards at random (I recommend always switching to the Test Server before turning these in, but Forge Gemstones works as it should on all servers).

Forge Gemstones for Nulgath

Attempts: 100

Gem of Nulgath x3: 100
Quartz of Nulgath: 81
Bloodstone of Nulgath: 28
Tanzanite of Nulgath: 13
Unidentified Gemstone of Nulgath: 1

Forge Tainted Gems for Nulgath:

Attempts: 19
Tainted Gem x4: 19
Tainted Gem x5: 12
Tainted Gem x10: 4
Tainted Gem x15: 2
Tainted Gem x20: 1

Total Tainted Gems: 226

Forge Dark Crystal Shards for Nulgath:

Attempts: 16
Dark Crystal Shard x2: 16
Dark Crystal Shard x3: 4
Dark Crystal Shard x5: 1
Dark Crystal Shard x10: 2
Dark Crystal Shard x15: 1
Dark Crystal Shard x20: 0

Total Dark Crystal Shards: 70

Forge Blood Gems for Nulgath:

Attempts: 1
Blood Gem of Nulgath x1: 1

I don't tend to do the Blood Gem quest because it eats up 10 Quartz and I have other better ways to get Blood Gems. I don't do the Diamond quest much either since those are easily farmed through Kiss the Void. I choose Tainteds because you'll have enough Quartz for them after exhausting your Tanzanites, which are a relatively low drop rate (~10-15%). Quartz appears to have a drop rate of ~80%, which is very nice but all the other Forge quests require multiple Quartz.

The drop rates of the x-quantity drops appear to be inversely proportional to the amount dropped, so besides the outlier for DCS x5 this was consistent. On average, you can expect to get about 10 Tainteds and 5 DCS per turn-in for their respective quests I'd say.

Forge Gemstones dropping 3 Gems 100% of the time is pretty nice, I often find I have too many Gems so I'll turn them in for Nulgath Larvae's Fighting Phoenix Blades quest for an extra 100k gold per 10 Gems turned in (boosted by equipment and Gold Boosts to 250k) and then I'll use that gold for Blade of Afflictions for more Receipt of Nulgath attempts. I've done 22 Receipt of Nulgath attempts and have so far gotten 1 Receipt on I believe my 8th attempt, but would like another because I upgraded the one I got to a Gemstone Receipt. The Unidentified Gemstone of Nulgath is almost certainly below 1% considering other untracked attempts by myself and others, but luckily it happened to drop while I was tracking my 100 Forge Gemstones turn-ins here. I would guess that it's either 0.3% or 0.5% and hope it isn't 0.1%.

< Message edited by The Finnish Phoenix -- 9/7/2017 23:18:02 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 463
9/8/2017 10:16:38   
The ErosionSeeker


I often find I have too many Gems so I'll turn them in for Nulgath Larvae's Fighting Phoenix Blades quest for an extra 100k gold per 10 Gems turned in (boosted by equipment and Gold Boosts to 250k)

Hey, that's a pretty cool trick!

So it seems Forge - Gems, TG - x4 and DCS - x2 are guaranteed?
At ~12 TGs per turn in, which in turn require ~3 Forges, which in turn require a few Wheel/Assistant turn-ins plus some other junk (let's say 10 tries), you're probably not going to be faster than Cube Reagents, although at least this isn't so mind-numbing.
DF AQW  Post #: 464
9/10/2017 22:04:16   
The Finnish Phoenix

Welcome one and all to the race to the top of Mount Doomskull!

I tried to brainstorm a good place to test classes' farming speeds. Previously I'd used Dreadrock with the quest "Endurance Tessst" and that worked pretty well as there were beefy monsters of up to 5 per room and the object was to mow down 50 and complete the quest against the clock. Now their HP has been drastically reduced from ~5829 to 899 and the majority of AoE's in the game can 1-shot them all while passing through the dreary rooms they reside in.

I couldn't find much in the way of quests that accurately encapsulated mob farming as the old Dreadrock had (shadowrealm is close but Empowered Essence isn't quite a 100% drop. So instead I made up a trial that wasn't a quest at all, involving fighting one's way to the top of Mount Doomskull. I feel like Mount Doomskull makes sense because there's a nice mix of mobs, there are 48 mobs around 2k HP and 27 mobs around 10k HP. The number of enemies per screen varies from 2-4, which is also representative of most situations you'd use a farming class.

Some of the screens can only be progressed through by beating each monster on the screen at least once, and that's what gave me the idea. Initially, I thought this would be true of all Mount Doomskull's screens but some let you progress and others don't. Regardless, this test involves beating each enemy from Loremaster Maya at the base of Mt. Doomskull to the Loremaster Maya at the top. We get through the last portal, that's the "finish line", no need to pay unkillable Drakath a visit. I feel like Drakath being there is a nice thematic touch.

For all classes I used either Full Luck or Full Wizard (all Level 85 save for the weapon), with one of two Chaorruptor Unlockeds (both enhanced with a Level 80 Spiral Carve enhancement, one with Wizard and the other Luck.) I also included an AFDL accessory to optimize each class's damage so it can get to the top of Mount Doomskull as fast as possible without Potions, because those can be a bother to replace. It's a race after all! I may do another comparison later with a stable weapon just for the sake of relativity. This was done on the Artix server, and in a private mountdoomskull of course so other players don't interfere with results.

So far, these are my results with my farming classes, some of which I found rather surprising:

Abyssal Angel: 4:05
Void Highlord: 4:20
Legion Blademaster Assassin: 4:24 (thanks to Metakirby)
Scarlet Sorceress: 5:59 (4:37 thanks to Metakirby)
Troll Spellsmith: 4:40
Legion DoomKnight: 4:53 (thanks to Metakirby)
Paladin: 5:08
Darkblood Stormking: 5:09
Daimon: 5:16
Eternal Inversionist: 5:31
BlazeBinder: 5:42
Shaman: 5:43
Darkside: 5:53
Legion Evolved Dark Caster: 5:57
Chaos Slayer: 6:17
Dragonlord: 6:47
ArchPaladin: 6:53
Lycan: 6:59
Chunin: 7:00
Mindbreaker: 7:09
DoomKnight Overlord (no party): 7:52
Evolved Shaman: 8:30
Legendary Archfiend: 8:56
Naval Commander (no party): 9:45

There are some classes I would've wanted to test but didn't have access to, including both versions of Legion DoomKnight, Legion Paladin, Legion Blademaster Assassin, Paladin HighLord, and ShadowStalker of Time. If anyone could do those that would be much appreciated.

Void Highlord is an absolute beast. It has no multi-targeting skills, but the low cooldowns and sheer damage of its single-target skills coupled with their far range makes it as good a farming class as just about anything in the game. It's also the best soloing class, so once acquired it's the only class you'll ever need for PvE.

Troll Spellsmith and Darkblood Stormking does much better than expected. I know at least the former was buffed recently but didn't think it was anything major. They can both do serious damage and have very good mana recovery. Energy Arc with full Sigil stacks was critting everything for over 9000 damage. Ball Lightning is great because you get all the mana back. That said, DBSK isn't as survivable as most modern farming classes, so I had to reset the clock after being flung to the bottom of the mountain a couple times. Because of this, I don't think it should be considered a top 5 farming class. Troll Spellsmith had no such difficulties though, as Sigil is a great Defensive skill and now includes a status for defense in addition to its heal and other buffs. A great skill with a great cooldown.

BlazeBinder is often cited as the greatest farming class, and I think it's because it has no real HP/MP issues with full Wizard and is very consistent. However, it is a little slower than a number of other classes. Shaman would probably be closer to the top if it were a little better at mana regeneration, but it's still very good. I find Spiral Carve recovers MP better than MP vamp while inflicting massive damage, so that's what I use with it.

Abyssal Angel might seem like it can't do much besides buff itself, but it actually has as many AoE's as possible given the global cooldown and its auto-attack AoE. At to that the fact it can loop maximum speed, buff its crit rate, and throw in the best, most reliable HoT in the game and you have the best farming class.

I'm sure there's some room for improvement with each class's time so if anyone else would like to try the test with whatever class you like feel free to and if it's better then I'll add it and credit you. Make sure to defeat each monster at least once, go alone and no potions. Best of luck and would be happy to hear any findings!

< Message edited by The Finnish Phoenix -- 9/11/2017 10:15:08 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 465
9/11/2017 0:39:27   
you stop

hmmmm when i first looked at the design of this test, something just irked me. the use of spiral carve heavily affects the speed of clears since the chance to proc it is not 100% consistent so in one of your tests, you could possibly proc it 0 times and in the next one, you could do it 100% of the time (low probability i know but it could still happen). could you try to do this without the use of spiral carve? you could still stick with afdl + chaorrupter unlocked boosts.

also, how many times have you repeated the test for each class? 3x would do nicely

< Message edited by you stop -- 9/11/2017 0:41:36 >
AQW  Post #: 466
9/11/2017 8:12:10   

Mountdoomskull run with:

LBMA, full Luck, Chaorrupter + AFDL piece and Spiral Carve.
1. Failed.
2. 4:31
3. Failed.
4. 4:44
5. 4:24

LBMA is a little hit and miss, it's not always easy to keep your hp low and still stay alive when you aggro 2-3 fatties at a time, which can crit for up to 500 on LBMA btw. At about 25% hp, it was possible to 1 shot anything with Dimished Steel, which could skyrocket the completion speed of certain screens, that plus a 5k crit with Dark Mantle and a 2k+ semi fast auto attack is bound to kill quickly.

Scarlet Sorceress, full Luck, Chaorrupter + AFDL piece and Spiral Carve.
1. 4:43
2. 5:03
3. 4:37

Before the timer started, I stacked Crimson Ritual to 5, since you would be at that efficiency if you are farming for an extended period of time anyways, that maybe be 1 of the reasons my times are so much faster, another might be that you used Wiz instead of Luck, Luck does provide a higher damage output for Scarlet, so that's what I went with. It's also important to always target the weakest enemy when using Mirroring Arcane, since you will deal more damage to the big guys that way, even to the point of being able to 1 shot them.

LDK, full Luck, Chaorrupter + AFDL piece and Spiral Carve.
1. 5:10
2. 4:53
3. 5:56

This doesn't surprise me too much, LDK (for as much as I don't like the skillset) does great single target damage, so you can take down the fatties pretty quickly for the most part, something that I feel a lot of true AoE classes lack. Low cooldown skills with somewhat stable damage output, a budget VHL.

@you stop
I feel like using Awe Enhancements are fair enough too use, sure, it makes these sorts of tests more unreliable, but as long as you do 3+ tests for everything, it should even out for the most part. If it was a test about how fast you could kill a single enemy, Awe enhancements should always be taken with a grain of salt, but because both mems and non mems have access to the same level Awe enhancements, at least fom 70 and up, it doesn't exclude non mems from being "competitive" and giving accurate results for a mem as well as a non mem. It's not like you would not want to use Awe enhancements when using a class, unless you are going for exact numbers, or just don't feel like using them, for one reason or another.

the use of spiral carve heavily affects the speed of clears since the chance to proc it is not 100% consistent

AQW will always have random elements that affects combat, insane difference between critting and not critting, Awe enhancements, mana regen (from crits, from dodges etc.) which are out of your control. Without using Awe enhancements, you are testing in an unrealistic setting.
I feel the purpose of the test is just to give a general idea of how good classes are at dealing with a lot of enemies while still being able to survive a decent pummeling, not to crown king and queen of farming.
AQW  Post #: 467
9/11/2017 8:19:48   

Pretty sure he did a re-run or two of these tests coz imo the results do seem consistent/reasonable. Some first thoughts/impressions regarding those numbers:

Void Highlord - is definitely strong (not saying it should be nerfed, tho could probably use some), if you have the time for it the return of investment is super, super high, definitely worth all of that effort.

Inversionist - kinda surprised it edged out both BB/Shaman by a few seconds (tho for all intents n purposes the three are "tied") considering EI's survivability is mediocre at best.

Scarlet Sorc - and here I am for the longest time expecting it to be the same or even better than TSS because it is "based" from TSS. I haven't used TSS at all yet, but I have SS, so in this regard I would say Scarlet is just a bursty aoe-farming class which requires maximal effort/micromanagement for basically mediocre dps. Don't get me wrong tho, SS's amazing survivability coupled with it's relative ease to obtain still makes it a very worthwhile class to own, especially for new/f2p players.

Troll Spellsmith - now this is what I would say a revelation, I honestly did not expect it to be basically the top farming class outside AbA and VHL. These results alone are convincing me enough to farm for its rep right now. Hm, still for things like public /battleunderb or <1k hp farming spots wherein u just basically leech or "tag" the creeps to get the loot, I would say something like Shaman/BB or any other class with a 10mana/4sec cd aoe is still optimal.

I might probably add some more thoughts later, but I think I have conveyed what I want to say already... oh and of course, props to you dude The Finnish Phoenix. You sir, are the real mvp. :)

Edit: haven't considered MK's just posted results above yet.

OP/UP discussion removed, please see the first post. ~Shadowhunt

< Message edited by Shadowhunt -- 9/11/2017 10:41:33 >
AQ AQW  Post #: 468
9/11/2017 9:45:06   
The ErosionSeeker

One of the reasons why TSS may have performed better is because its AoE 4 lets it tag the last MDS monster, while Scarlet Sorceress in particular suffers because its 3 skills are all on a decently long cooldown.

I like that the MDS test features a variety of HP values in order to give an advantage to all types, although EI gets gimped by its ranged autoattack not letting you sprint to the furthest guy. 4 is also an awkward number considering there being basically no farming in 4x monster rooms, as well as most classes not having an AoE 4 anyways.

Other possible tests include Tower of Doom levels for survival, the 4 (7) Giant Crashers at /weddingdead, Shadow Realm, and potentially the 4x aggro Sweetish Fish room in /twig, although that one is legend-only, which makes me sad.
DF AQW  Post #: 469
9/11/2017 15:47:24   
The Finnish Phoenix

Thanks Metakirby for the extra runs and thanks all for the feedback! :)

Yes any tests of any sort would be cool just to get a feel for how the classes do in different environments.

I feel as though Spiral Carve undergoes a sort of law of averages most of the time over the course of several minutes, and certain classes rely on their auto-attack more and would be running Spiral Carve when farming, so putting Spiral Carve on the weapon gives them more accurate representation than a default weapon enhancement.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 470
9/11/2017 22:07:13   

The only way I can really see Spiral Carve or other auto-proc Awe enhancements being imbalanced between classes would be with Abyssal. Since it has the multi-targets and the double-haste, it has on average, 3-6x the chances to proc than most other classes. When I used Spiral on AbA, before I switched to Depths, I recall it being active more or less constantly.
AQW Epic  Post #: 471
9/11/2017 23:11:01   
the warden

well I just clicked no to sparrows blood by mistake:( oops
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 472
9/12/2017 6:45:06   

Anyone mind testing out Light Caster in MDS?
AQW  Post #: 473
9/12/2017 7:16:37   

Lightcaster vs MDS, same setup as before, but with Wiz enhancements.
1. 3:38
2. 3:45
3. 3:48

The reason is pretty simple, like VHL, it has spammable, unmissable abilites that does a lot of damage, even being able to 1 shot the big ones with a crit on the nuke. Weirdly enough, I was not surprised it would surpass VHL, because LC can just go aggresive all the time, whereas VHL every now and then will need to Shackle up for a couple seconds, decreasing damage potential. Another benefit that LC had, was that Light Blast will always do a lot of guaranteed damage, compared to VHL's most spammable ability, Highlord's Gaze, which relies on crits. The skill itself is also on a lower cooldown, making it easier to take down the small mobs and 2-3 Light Blasts will be enough to kill the big ones anyways, with help from a couple autos and Lingering Lights.

Just ignore all those comparisons, did 2 runs with VHL (full Luck) and got 3:32 and 3:27. Now I'm starting to question Finnish Phoenix's results. Obviously they are not conclusive, but it was an interesting way of going about testing it.

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 9/12/2017 8:08:11 >
AQW  Post #: 474
9/12/2017 13:48:31   
The Finnish Phoenix

Question as you may, those are truly the results I get and I just did another run with VHL after your comment and it took me 4:30. That's a considerable difference, to which I can only chalk it down to my own physiological limitations. Well done!

I can tell you that it takes my character 1:54 simply to walk from the base of Mount Doomskull to the finish line, and that there are 75 monsters along the way. I am using Highlord's Gaze, Unshackle, and Armageddon as often as I can given cooldowns while trying to ensure Armageddon lands on a bigger monster so as not to waste it's damage, and Shackle reasonably frequently to one-shot the weaker mobs/finish the bigger monsters off.

I then tested again while recording my screen and found that it took again considerably longer (this time around 5:44) and there was noticeable lag and pauses transitioning from screen-to-screen, so lag was definitely a factor in at least the screen-recorded test. (Will get a Quietube link of this up once it finishes uploading and processing and such.)

I did most of my initial tests on a library computer that I'd deemed mostly lag-free with a Google stopwatch in the background and found there wasn't much noticeable lag, but I suppose it's just as lag-free as I've personally experienced, so I imagine you're working with faster technology and/or internet than I have access to and/or can use the class more efficiently. If you could record video of your own test with Void Highlord and if there's a difference between testing while recording and not that would be good to know as well.

If you were to do tests for each class, I imagine you'd get faster results for each one but with similar relative time gaps/ratios between classes. As is, it probably wouldn't make sense for us to mix results as a means of getting a sense of how classes compare with each other. (Your LightCaster might be faster than my VHL, but your VHL is faster than your LightCaster.) But yes, as I said there'd be room for improvement with my times and if anyone gets faster results I'm happy to hear of them.

< Message edited by The Finnish Phoenix -- 9/12/2017 13:50:08 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 475
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