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Why Sepulchure is the Worst Villian

 
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6/19/2017 15:11:41   
Cherubic Card
Member

And it's not for the reason that you think.

Saw people getting into it, so I thought I'd make a topic discussing it. The reason he's so bad is that he's childish.

Not the character, the motif. Edit: Well, yeah, the character too, actually. The spikes, the talking sword with a skull on it, the "teleports behind u" shtick, everything about him is an 8-year-old boy's fantasy. Honestly, only his name protects him from honestly believing that, though sometimes I wonder if xXShadowMaster360Xx would have been a better fit.

I personally would've been happy if he had gone the way of Drakath at the end of Book 1, but he's back. I have faith that Tomix will make something of him, but....

Agree? Disagree? You're in the right thread either way.


< Message edited by Cherubic Card -- 6/19/2017 15:12:55 >
Post #: 1
6/19/2017 15:28:14   
FriendOfAFriend
Member

Seppy is edge incarnate.

But eh, he made it work for me. He was cocky and for the first time in a while for me (at that time) actually backed it up with feats. He practically solo'd Dragon Drakath. We never even were close to good enough to beat him. Just really cool to me.

I think the real question though is: Was Seppy even evil?!
Post #: 2
6/19/2017 15:34:29   
Cherubic Card
Member

Honestly that conversation did make me think on it, Seppy did kill all of the guardians of the original tower with his Flying Falling Fortress, he killed Lady Celestia, and some others. The reason why it feels like his KC was low is because he was made by kids, for kids. They obviously couldn't show him cutting people apart like Dave from the Energy Orb line.

I like to think though for every off-screen or implied kill he made, he earned another spike for his armor.
Post #: 3
6/19/2017 16:00:30   
HwarangxDxArcher
Member

As bad as Sepulchure is, he's still in the top list of my favorite villain, along with Xan and Zorbak :D

He's very cool in the Final 13th, and we never actually beat him in-game.

_____________________________


DF Epic  Post #: 4
6/19/2017 16:02:35   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

darkness is always considered "edgy" so in a world where darkness is consistently being exposed to the world i never saw his powers or gear as a problem...then again that is my ascetic too id also like to add that seppy NEVER acted like the "nothing personal kid" kind of character we just were never worth his time (to him) if a toddler throws up a fighting pose to you and you have the power and body of the incredible hulk would you even bat an eye? besides let's be honest here the baron was one application of eyeliner away from playing papercut as his battle theme.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 5
6/19/2017 16:13:38   
dragon_monster
Member

quote:

Honestly that conversation did make me think on it, Seppy did kill all of the guardians of the original tower with his Flying Falling Fortress, he killed Lady Celestia, and some others. The reason why it feels like his KC was low is because he was made by kids, for kids. They obviously couldn't show him cutting people apart like Dave from the Energy Orb line.

I like to think though for every off-screen or implied kill he made, he earned another spike for his armor.


That was Granny who crashed the fortress and killed most of the guardians the stupid stupid women I guess you do not get wise with age. How in the hell did she think it was a good idea to crash an fortress over an populated town. The stupid women stupid stupid women. This where former adventurers the best of the bets and she killed them. Its not easy to replace such high quality warriors.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 6
6/19/2017 16:22:52   
LouisCyphere
Member

What a click bait-y title

I think the reason for that is he's written as a tragic character and the game wants to turn him into an anti-hero, probably, in the future.

Since Book 1 was more "family-friendly", Seppy was written as the cool villain and some limits were had to be placed.

And, yeah, he is like every kids' fantasy villain. Just like with Sephiroth of Final Fantasy 7.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
6/19/2017 16:26:41   
Sumbrosus
Member
 

Grams may have sabotaged the fortress, but Sepulchure is the one who allowed it to fall without any attempt to stabilize it or fix the damage.
Post #: 8
6/19/2017 16:28:21   
Cherubic Card
Member

Well @Urmi that's pretty much the issue. If a villain is unbeatable, or worse not defeated by the player, they're a bad villain.

A villain can serve two major purposes. One, they can make you question your stance on the world and how you see it. If they make you think, "Oh, maybe they have a point..." That makes a good villain. One who challenges your morals. Seppy definitely was not this.

Two, they can serve as a hurdle to be overcome. A mountain to be climbed. A test to succeed at, and show just how far you've come. It was one thing to have Seppy be powerful at the beginning, when we, the player, the main character, were not, but to have him still be that same obnoxious power fantasy at the end? That's where Seppy failed at the second criteria.

As you said, it was pretty much The Hulk vs. a toddler, but unlike Bruce Banner, we didn't see how Seppy got his power, we didn't see how he got so strong, unlike The Baron even. With Seppy is was just an annoying power fantasy that we had to suffer through, a creator's pet who is "totally teh bestest bad guy evur!"

He wasn't representative of anything, he wasn't Pyramid Head, he wasn't an analogy to the inexorable march of time, and by extension decay, no.
He was just a guy in a spiky suit of armor with a talking sword of EVIL! who was trying to take over the world. Just a Saturday morning cartoon villain on steroids.

@Luis Gotta get dem clicks boi
Post #: 9
6/19/2017 16:31:45   
FriendOfAFriend
Member

quote:

And, yeah, he is like every kids' fantasy villain. Just like with Sephiroth of Final Fantasy 7.


Can confirm Sephiroth is still my favorite FF villain and nobody can tell me otherwise

But at least we SAW Sephiroth's fall from grace. I'm interested to see if we get any similar type of development/backstory outta Amadeus when the day comes.
Post #: 10
6/19/2017 16:32:43   
dragon_monster
Member

quote:

Grams may have sabotaged the fortress, but Sepulchure is the one who allowed it to fall without any attempt to stabilize it or fix the damage.

Really and that makes him guilty for crashing the fortress and killing the guardians? So basically you are saying if you can do something to stop something bad and you do not then its your fault?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 11
6/19/2017 16:33:20   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

ah but card seppy no longer has his doom blade or his armor he may still have many of his powers however his amplifiers are gone its probably why he has not rampaged against the rose if he is still evil he no longer has that level of power however i am just speculating on that.



he is beatable now i almost guarantee it.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 12
6/19/2017 16:33:55   
FriendOfAFriend
Member

quote:

So basically you are saying if you can do something to stop something bad and you do not then its your fault?


Well, yeah. If you can stop bad but choose to let it happen, you're pretty much at fault.

quote:

he is beatable now i almost guarantee it.


Supposedly, WoG states that Valen at his peak (before any doom power) was still strong enough to defeat our Hero, albeit just by a hair. I wonder if Seppy retained his swordsmanship...

< Message edited by FriendOfAFriend -- 6/19/2017 16:34:59 >
Post #: 13
6/19/2017 16:37:56   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

eh i'm gonna have to disagree with you there FoaF for several reasons

1. you can stop bad but you die in the process so you choose to live (that's pretty grey to me)

2. your family will be immediately targeted if you interfere

3. stopping the bad now makes it WORSE later perhaps even martyring the bad.


ah but did we have our orb boost at the time?

< Message edited by Dark Lord Urmi -- 6/19/2017 16:38:38 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 14
6/19/2017 16:39:13   
dragon_monster
Member

quote:

Well, yeah. If you can stop bad but choose to let it happen, you're pretty much at fault.


Besides the fact that it mean we are all terrible beings in game it also means that the avatars, the lords and Warlic and Ashendale are villains. So that means Granny is not at fault with the reasoning?

@above yes we have the boost but its more like it can go either way not like he can defeat us each time.

Also you make a good point GRavelyin was there he is not gonna risk her safety to try to save her fortress.

< Message edited by dragon_monster -- 6/19/2017 16:41:53 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 15
6/19/2017 16:41:03   
Greyor_42
Member

@cherubic card

well, according to jaania's mirror, and even the irismancer from way back, seppy basically represents what the hero COULD have become if they strayed from their path.

quote:

we didn't see how he got so strong, unlike The Baron even.


technically ,we never saw how the baron got as powerful as he did, either. we were TOLD by other characters and a journal entry. which is exactly how we learned how seppy got as powerful as he did. the irismancer told us his past.


@dragon_monster

so, the bad things that the rose does is jaania's fault, despite her not doing them directly, but seppy lets the fortress crash into the guardian tower despite being able to, simply because he couldn't be bothered, and he gets off scott free from it? bit of a double standard there.......

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 6/19/2017 16:44:12 >
DF  Post #: 16
6/19/2017 16:43:44   
FriendOfAFriend
Member

quote:


1. you can stop bad but you die in the process so you choose to live (that's pretty grey to me)

2. your family will be immediately targeted if you interfere

3. stopping the bad now makes it WORSE later perhaps even martyring the bad.


These are all very situational, though?? Like what situations are you thinking of where this is a common thing?

quote:


Besides the fact that it mean we are all terrible beings in game it also means that the avatars, the lords and Warlic and Ashendale are villains. So that means Granny is not at fault with the reasoning?


We always try to stop bad things happening though. We don't say 'lol not my problem' if we see something bad happen, this point is wrong, Dragon. And Granny is still at fault, obviously? It's just that Seppy COULD have stopped the fortress from falling and didn't. Therefore, he's not as innocent as you wish him to be XD


Post #: 17
6/19/2017 16:48:27   
Cherubic Card
Member

@Greyor_42 Admittedly, I wasn't around for The Baron's first appearance. I was around for his resurrection though, which showed all of the various powers that went into him. That being said, he's not my favorite character, but he wasn't half as prevalent in his time as Seppy was in his.

@Dark Lord Urmi And he's also had the good grace to keep out of frame. I just hate him from what we've seen. To a degree, i consider Amadeus to be a separate character, or a re imagining.

Post Edited, see you inbox. ~Starflame




< Message edited by Starflame13 -- 6/19/2017 20:11:57 >
Post #: 18
6/19/2017 16:49:19   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

Foaf that depends is it "lol not our problem" or "OH GOD I DON'T WANT TO DIE!!" life is very situational XD

watching the world burn and laughing is evil

watching the world burn and quaking in fear is human.


card eh Amadeus is a disguise but he is still the same person its not like seppy got amnesia XD people tend to change and grow the longer they exist

< Message edited by Dark Lord Urmi -- 6/19/2017 16:50:24 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 19
6/19/2017 16:50:42   
Frigus
Member

He's the best villain. He is the only one that tricked the stat trainer to giving him 666 for every stat.
Post #: 20
6/19/2017 17:06:55   
Cherubic Card
Member

Anyway, the reason I stated I felt Amadeus was a new character is one, he has new writers. Two, I recently replayed Tournament of Champions part 1, and was surprised at what a yes man he was for Jaania. I mean he was always a glorified yes man, but usually only for things edgier than himself. (Because his supervisor was a sword, get it?)

Edited to remove reference to deleted content. ~Starflame


< Message edited by Starflame13 -- 6/19/2017 20:13:03 >
Post #: 21
6/19/2017 17:11:23   
dragon_monster
Member

quote:

so, the bad things that the rose does is jaania's fault, despite her not doing them directly, but seppy lets the fortress crash into the guardian tower despite being able to, simply because he couldn't be bothered, and he gets off scott free from it? bit of a double standard there.......


Well yeah its one thing to be blamed for what your underlings do and another for what your enemies do. We are all able to do so much to stop bad things from happening give your fortune to charity take homeless people in your home build houses for them if not. But we do not because at the end of the day we value ourselves and our family more. Do you remember who was in Seppy's arms when the fortress crashed?
Will he have saved the fortress if not well no but it makes him as guilty as the hero is who could have done something to save others also and did not. Want me to give examples of that?
I can not think of him guilty there because I will be honest I will have to agree that that the hero is also guilty of the death of many innocents because for example we spared this dude http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=8254066 to many times.
Or worse it will mean Batman is guilty for the deaths Jocker does.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 22
6/19/2017 18:12:22   
Subon
Member

Being overly concious of things that are "edgy" and trying to avoid them is as bad as actually being an edgelord. Also the reason was exactly what I expected it to be.
One of the reasons why post-timeskip Tomix feels so damn un-Tomix like. And I really hope that Amadeus is going down that route..

< Message edited by Subon -- 6/19/2017 18:13:45 >
Post #: 23
6/19/2017 18:18:22   
Lordvladek97
Member

Valen/Sepulchure/Amadeus is more of an anti-hero.

The primary reason for his embracement of the Darkness was to gain more power. He wanted more power because he felt that had he been more powerful he wouldn't have lost the love of his life Lynaria. It is even implied that the reason he wants the orbs is to be reunited with her somehow.

Valen's fatal flaw was tied to his excellence: he never faced defeat, therefore he never learned how to handle it. It was stated that Valen is stronger than the our Hero is his/her current state, which is pretty dang remarkable.

I personally feel that V/S/A has a huge part to play going forward. He obviously has huge ambitions, since Gravelynn believes herself to be princess of all of Lore. He also seems bent on revenge, considering the letter he most likely wrote us about vanquishing the Stranger himself.

All that in mind, I think he is pretty adult-themed, and kids around with the Hero because the Hero is like a silly little kid to him power-wise, at least in the first Book.

< Message edited by Lordvladek97 -- 6/19/2017 18:20:59 >
DF AQW  Post #: 24
6/19/2017 20:14:49   
  Starflame13

Gryffin Warrior of DF GD & RP


Please remember to be respectful of others on the forums. If you spot someone acting out, please PM an AK or a forum mod to deal with the situation, rather than resorting to mini-modding. I just deleted/edited a couple posts referencing said content, so if your post vanished, that's why!


< Message edited by Starflame13 -- 6/19/2017 20:15:32 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 25
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