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RE: An open letter from a Doom Knight

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8/30/2017 2:23:55   
Lord Run

you know some thing im not a doom knight i'm not OP and 75% of the equipment that i use are like 10 lvls bellow my lvl but i think he is right
he payed for it and if he want his dragon fable experience to be easy and boring its his choice and you should allow him to use it,i see his claims as fair
ones and you know i think that they should change the game but instead of making the boss more OP just making the armor a weaker one to the extent it will really be the offensive counter to Dragon lord or forcing all of us to use the 3 basic class mage warrior or ranger at a battle that they want to be extra challenging because i'm sure that if all the class wouled be ban from a hard challenge he wouldn't feel left out they can do or that or to let us what ever we want and if some one want easy game he will use OP class and if some one want hard game they can use the extreme boss mod with hard mode from options and use the low class and low lvl weapons,because all of us players play in deffrent ways using deffrent equipment and deffrent class with deffrent
combinations and deffrent tactics to win or to lose some of us like wars some of us find them repetitive and annoying some of us like the new mature themes of DF some hate, some love the nostalgia some hate it,some like the silliness some like the darkness,and that what make DF unique and pretty it have it all and we all have freedom to choose i used to rant to about the NPC styles that i didn't liked or the to much dark story or that Serenity died,but you know what i was wrong DF is great because it have special place to every kind of players and they let us choose which item or class we want to use and you know what they even let us choose which quests we want to play all the challenge or filler quests are not a must be we don't have to play them its our choice,so what i'm trying to say is that he is right they should or restricted all class other then base ones or let us have our freedom to choose.and for thous who say they can't testify all of us they can but not at the same time,for example the Catith Saga was a nightmare for me but the tenement saga and all the rest of the main story lines awesome specially the last quest "are rocks are evil",i was angry that Serenity died i hated that they replaced her with a moglin so they brought this awesome mage guy that had the same calming smile like Serenity had the same smile and true i liked Serenity more but his smile and the text he had said so far makes me smile,yes they can't please us all 100% of the time but they do give to any type of player attention and at list pleasing all types players at list 10% of the time if i played any game that 10% of the time happened exactly what i wanted i would shout diam that exactly what i wanted,and they do it they asking our opinions and not ignoring it so i hope you read all my long post here because i putted my soul in it and you all know how much my english is sucks so you know i probably putted a lot thought and time on this post. i hope this post will inspire you all like i was inspired when i posted it. god bless you all my dear fellow players and staff members.

< Message edited by Lord Run -- 8/30/2017 2:24:42 >
Post #: 101
8/30/2017 3:25:37   


Curious. What do you even use all this Gold for? Just getting to level 85 should leave you with like, a million at least.
But on that note, as I mentioned before, DmKv1 makes farming easy enough that you can get the daily EXP cap in an hour or two, and alongside that you get 180k Gold. I think Verly's proposed 100-200k would be pretty reasonable seeing how it's still doable within a day or two if you want to make the effort. (In that sense though, to put that in perspective, the most expensive weapons in the game ar 100k. The 100k Scythe is upgradable for a total of 300k. I would think something like the Ultimate Destiny weapons should be valued at higher than that, though you also do need to farm the previous upgrades, so eh))

There are A LOT of items that require a ton of gold to upgrade. Frost Claymore is one that comes to mind.
Then there is the Dragon Lord artifacts, those both cost more than 300k gold.
I also remember paying a lot of money for house items.
Upgrading your dragon and dragon lord class.
On top of that I USED TO have the higher tier of 100k scythe, but I sold it to pay for me latest restatting. Right now I am down to like 6000 gold, at level 85.

So if you know of a good way to farm hundreds of thousands of gold, without spending gargantuan amount of my spare time, I am all ears.

< Message edited by HORRIOR -- 8/30/2017 3:26:19 >


My comment is usually a joke, serious or wish full

Some times even i dont know wich one it is XD
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 102
8/30/2017 5:57:21   
Sun Wukong


You can. Use DmK Variant one with a good or almost any energy weapon for your level then go to Dr. Voltabolt's challenge and kill the monsters in one hit of blood rite (if it crtis), then followed up by the same bloodrite or break skill. Also use accessories to boost you up.

Train your primary stat to 200 Str/Dex/Int and max Luk
Post #: 103
8/31/2017 1:56:53   

I was hoping this thread was gonna stay closed but eh.. whatevers.

DMK here, yes it's OP and thats after the Nerf (member when soul carve had A 100% chance to steal health even when it missed? Yeah Baron Dante took down Sepulchre with that.... Internally Fanboying.)

Point here is: they're right, 100% right. The armor steals all possibilities of the term "strategy".
That makes even the heartiest challenge nothing more than an overgrown Sneevil.

I already explained my perception of a challenge, a simple fire going against the vast unforgiving sea, a simple Sneevil fighting a Dragon riding Gorillaphant, or a Sneevil fighting his temptation to open a mimic, knowing it will be his last action if he tries....

None of that is a challenge with DMK.
Let's look at the first challenge.
Dragonslayer was the top pick, was it the only pick?

Heck no. Some of the best players showcased their knowledge and strategy, they made these manners known to the public.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you need to have had a DA for what six months? A year? Before you can purchase DMK?

Your telling me that for (at the very least) six months you did nothing but wait until you could buy DMK?
I spent about a year without DA, then I bought one.
Whole world changed, the game becomes that much easier. However the time spent without that amulet did not make me weaker, it taught me a great deal about strategy, taking advantage of stat allocation, pets, guests and of course general skill usage.

We have dozens of classes, as well as a great deal of armors, each have their own qualities which imbue this game with possibility.

Removing one from the equation does not mean the game Is any less fun. More importantly, remember what armor is being restricted.
The only Tier 4 armor in existence.
No other Tier 4 armor will ever exist, that is the staff talking.

Yes you paid for the armor, you were also given a hefty amount of DC, greater than if purchased outside the deal. In theory...you know...they've been very accommodating, rarely do I find games that make deals like AE.

Listen, here is my issue.
If those bringing this "issue" to light are also those that feel the staff are not providing enough content on a weekly or even monthly basis, all i can say is this.
By having the staffs priorities, resources, and time used to have DMK allowed for these challenges... Won't that rob from general releases?
We've (or the forum at least) has spent a great deal discussing, debating and finding a manner to implement something that was originally not allowed ( for logical reasons) and you've kinda.won.

I hope this does not take too much time or resources from the staff, I look forward to the releases and if it's delayed because of accommodations to certain individuals who enjoy an edge, I feel it's not very empathic to the general community.

This game is one that has given us a plethora of possibilities, it would be a shame to refuse them in favor of a handful that are being correctly revoked.

I enjoy using the weakest weapon and using class skills to cause DoT damage, I find great interest in finding the most pointless manner to defeat an opponent, call this a personal challenge.
Ironically using these methods for these challenges has beared unexpected fruit.

Dont even get me started on Trinket slot and skills... I spent two days farming for soul purifier and I do not regret it. Probably the best NON-Dc purchase trinket/Skill in the game.
Trinket skills have their own guides... I can literally talk all day about their use and possibility.

So to say, I want to use DMK for these challenges (knowing well that it will be but a simple swat of a fly) does cause a bit of irritation, hundreds of manners exist to go around these challenges. Yet a handful desire the one that was banned.

Interesting is all.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 104
8/31/2017 2:04:19   
Dark Lord Urmi

^ saying it's only a handful is not correct otherwise the poll that was made wouldn't have 68% saying the restriction is unfair compared to the 32% who want doomknight to be barred from it.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 105
8/31/2017 5:16:11   

Lets say Steve enjoys using Doomknight. Therefore he thinks Dragonfable isnt releasing enough each week/the weekly releases arent good enough for him. I dont see how that follows..? Of the people who enjoy using Doomknight, they arent the ones saying Doomknight makes the game any less fun. While using Doomknight, Steve isnt finishing each quest saying 'well, that was pointless'. Otherwise he wouldnt be using Doomknight in the first place. And Steve isnt being (and should not be) obligated to use Doomknight, just as he isnt (and should not be) obligated to not use any class.

Now lets introduce Bert, a player who enjoys using classes that are weaker relative to other classes. Bert may as well have no use for Doomknight as it makes the game rather pointless and too easy for his liking, so he doesnt use it. Steve respects him and admires the way he challenges himself by using creative strategies, but Steve doesnt understand why Bert thinks the game would also be pointless for Steve if Steve had used Doomknight. Steve likes the Doomknight armor, after all.

Even if the poll was split 50/50, that still doesnt make people like Steve a minority in the community by any means. If we assume the poll was a faithful representation of the population and void of bias, thats like, half of the players.

Should Bert want the Doomknight armor to be banned, it would be that the staff would actually be accommodating people like Bert by *going out of their way* to ban armors that to those such people would make the game pointless to. But no one is obligated to use the Doomknight armor in the first place! You can... Just not use it!! Why is such a move necessary, and exactly who is being accommodated here? Whatever armor/gear people are comfortable with using is going to be what they use, and thats completely independent of what gear another player uses. This would only be throwing a wrench into the works to disrupt other peoples' experience of the game.

I realize that many were referring to the Old Doomknight armor, and in my discussion of the subject (and in this post) I had the current updated version of Doomknight in mind. My replies are perfectly transitive though.

Against the Old Doomknight armor, the opposition should really be saying something along the lines of the mechanics in the Life Carve ability and that due to the nature of stealing a fixed % amount of the enemy's max hp theres no fight to be had. Though thats a slightly different discussion as it is supported in a different way. I need to gather my thoughts if everyone is only talking about the Old Doomknight now.

As I stand, the current Doomknight armor definitely should not be banned and Verly's proposed solution of having the current one allowed is perfect. I would also like to thank posters that have taken time to make in-depth responses as Im sure it has made players on both sides of the issue understand the other's thoughts a lot clearer. Battle on!

< Message edited by Tr4pD00r -- 8/31/2017 5:27:39 >
DF  Post #: 106
8/31/2017 6:23:01   

I must say, perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough, or perhaps I over thought things, I still try to grasp at metaphors that Everyone can understand.

To better illustrate my thoughts of course.

For starters urmi:
Can you provide a link to the poll?
If not can you provide a set amount of numbers? Percentages are great for boosting stats, but when reading charts I prefer subjective numbers.
Perhaps that's just me.

Second was it an official poll or outside? I can practically assure you I didn't vote if it was unofficial (as it would've been posted somewhere on the forums, separate thread or so.). Was there any criteria as for allowing the vote? If only DAs had been allowed I would feel some bias.

In the end 50% of two is one, if everyone had voted the numbers would be closer to the truth than if a small group had voted, something I'd like to analyze from the poll.

I mildly understand your point.
That was the old me, I no longer challenge myself. That was before the DA. In fact I no longer play for enjoyment, but simply for the story. The story has actually pressed a great deal of adrenaline in me, DMK is simply the easiest method to complete any quests which is why I use it, to continue reading the story as it develops.

Having said that.
I don't believe anyone wants to "ban" DMK throughout the game ( if they do exist than I shall agree with you on that point, as it is highly illogical).
However you can not deny me this either:
Even in it's current variation, DMK is still a Tier 4 class and armor, you can not expect me to call it any less than "God Mode" as that is precisely what this armor entails.
It is not invincible, but with it many have completed the impossible. So it stands to reason to have a great deal of power.

The term challenge changes, it varies from individual, Bassault was once a "challenge" so was Xan (3 turn version), for obvious reasons they are both nothing more than child's play now.
So the term challenge evolves as the means to both surpass and measure it changes.
Yet the idea that banning a single class in order to deem this a challenge somehow equates being unable to use it at all?
Kinda lost me there.

See what I see.is this:

"You can go wherever within basic limits, just don't go trough that door."- Staff.

Me- "okay."

Some are specifically asking why they can't use that one exit, their manner of speech as if only one manner of exit existed!
We know that is not the case.

More importantly this isn't about accommodating those with DMK or those without.

The challenges were ORIGINALLY intended to be done without DMK, that ban existed. It wasn't implemented after, it was kinda built with the fact that DMK wouldn't be used. Why?
Because it is far too easy to use the DMK in a fight and say "hey I won.", In this manner the term challenge becomes void and is simply called : More difficult Boss Battle than usual

I had used the dragon challenge as an example because that one was a case where Dragonslayer was in many ways a better armor to use than DMK, even with the proper build DS was the better and easier choice.

The simplest metaphor that can be understood by all would be this:
You bought a monster truck, but you're told you can't park it in a space meant for a smaller vehicle, that makes sense.
Or more realistically, you try to park a non-electric car in a charging station meant for charging an electric car.
Do you see what I mean?
The challenges were the same way, a specific audience in mind, built specifically as a challenge for those that wanted to challenge themselves, with the knowledge that DMK would be not allowed (at least after the first tier of challenges were announced).

If Verly and the staff have plans to change this I have no problem, if it remains the same I have no problem either.
Yes I did spend cash on this game, and Adventure Quest, and Mech Quest, and Adventure Quest World's....you get the idea.
The point is, necessity is the mother of invention, being forced into a box often allows you to think outside it, I don't mind restrictions I welcome them.
If they choose to create quests that ban certain armors, what's the big deal?
It's not like they're banning those armors throughout the game.


In case I don't see ya: Good afternoon, good evening, and good night!
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 107
8/31/2017 6:33:00   


the poll was posted by verly on his twitter account. i'd say that's pretty dang official, whether or not it was on the forums. as for a link to it, there's already one in this thread, but i'll post a new one anyways, for your convenience.


If Verly and the staff have plans to change this I have no problem, if it remains the same I have no problem either.

verly is actually already working on implementing a change that allows normal DmK to fight the challenges, whith the mindset that, while being incredibly strong, it doesn't completely undermine what the challenges were originally ment to be, and setting a limitation on DmK V1(to complete multi- challenges and random challenges, it needs a higher fee, and to complete normal challenges, you need to have beaten them at least once before), which will be probably be added alongside the new engine update coming tomorrow.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 8/31/2017 6:35:10 >
DF  Post #: 108
8/31/2017 10:28:17   
Hopeful Guy

Hope Upbringer! (DF Guides/GS)

I wonder whether there is a way of actually allowing DmK v1 to be used in challenges without automatically breaking the game though. Since Life Carve is the skill that is broken (Wake is pretty ridiculous, but not as much as LC) surely it can be nerfed, with the option of a free artifact for DmK v1 owners that restores it to normal? Then just restrict the artifact in challenge fights, but allow nerfed v1 to be used. In any case, the 8 hit KO (any-> 7x LC) is the main reason DmK v1 is stupidly broken, and without it, it is just an insanely offensive class but not gamebreaking.
DF  Post #: 109
8/31/2017 16:05:31   

i follow forum almost every day but can't be frequently active in. To sum up my opinions,i purchased the most expensive thing in the game just to support the devs and also sometimes purchasing DCs to make the game alive. But unfortunately i can't play with it just because it's "too OP" to be playable to get fun. i don't care what it is. that may be rude but i want to do what i want with i paid for. hope verly doing something that makes both sides happy

< Message edited by dratonyos41 -- 8/31/2017 16:06:06 >
DF  Post #: 110
8/31/2017 23:31:29   

Can I still vote in the Twitter poll?
Post #: 111
8/31/2017 23:39:14   

There are many different arguments that I would love to all address, but here's a simple argument for why I believe DoomKnight should not be allowed at all in the context of the Inn at the Edge of Time. I'd like to preface this by saying I am indeed a DoomKnight owner, and have used it once for a challenge battle (I think it was Razen al Ghoul), and decided it worsened my experience. How it did I will abstract towards terms that should apply to everyone.
First (and I'm sure few people would disagree), whatever your inclinations on how to play the storyline or farm may be, there is a certain kind of enjoyment in using limited resources (i.e. not using DoomKnight) to defeat a challenging boss. As many other players pointed out, DoomKnight doesn't make fights fun unless you, like me, laugh at the chuuni quotes the character spouts every time they use Corruption.
Second, while it's the primary source of enjoyment for me and many others, since the storyline releases so infrequently, much of the enjoyment one gets is from doing "extra" content like the Inn at the Edge of Time. I'm all for people using DoomKnight in storyline and in farming, because those things are reached
As long as we agree to both of these, it follows that allowing DoomKnight reduces the enjoyment in extra content.
I've seen the counterargument that a given player's having rare things doesn't really impact another player's experience, so it doesn't matter whether we allow DoomKnight for certain extra content.
This argument assumes that someone else's experience is purely based on cold, clear logic, which doesn't hold water. If someone feels like their achievement was invalidated because someone who paid money to win got everything they got, their feelings should be taken at least as seriously as the people feeling upset about restricting DoomKnight in extras.
Some may raise the point that more people voted to not restrict DoomKnight. The players support the game, so they should be allowed to have what they want.
Be that as it may, DF's balance is not a mob rule and it would probably be in tatters if it was (the adverse reaction to the crit nerf exemplifies this).
I conclude by saying it is vital that we realize that there are always going to be people upset they didn't get what they wanted. My goal is not to provide an idea that will make everyone happy, nor is it to provide an idea that will make the most people happy. I just want something that logically follows from an understanding of the merits of difficulty, as well as of game balance precedent.
AQ DF  Post #: 112
9/1/2017 1:53:59   

I don't really care.

Go ahead, allow it if you want, I DO have the class, but I rarely ever both using it unless I'm farming.

I'm gonna stick with my strategies, because I find it fun to plot that kind of stuff out and see how it works.

So I'm neutral on this whole issue, like I said: Don't really care one way or the other.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 113
9/1/2017 13:51:22   

It should be allowed to be used simply because you have to pay 60/80 dosh for it, it's advertised as the strongest class in the game. It's SUPPOSED to break the game, to make you overpowered. Disabling the class because of it's intended purpose is not very clever.
Post #: 114
9/1/2017 13:57:51   

You know what I think? Let DoomKnight use the class, but create a new badge/medal that can ONLY be obtained if you beat the Inn challenges w/o using DmK.

Speaking of which.... WHY ISN'T THERE A BADGES PAGE FOR THE INN?!?!?!?
DF  Post #: 115
9/1/2017 14:10:28   

Probably because our devs are already overworked. Chill.

And personally, I own both versions of DoomKnight and I could barely care less whether or not either version's allowed for challenges. I had a lot of fun thinking of what to use to handle the multi challenges, in fact. Not a hugely interesting opinion, but worth counting, I guess.
AQ DF  Post #: 116
9/1/2017 19:43:18   

Just finished killing Siofra with normal DoomKnight.

It was harder than I thought. Reason being DoomKnight's lack of defensive skillset, hence most DoomKnight builds are glass cannons with 200 in LUK and WIS.

This left my dealing with Siofra a little more complicated than what may appear at face value. You need to keep refilling your health (Life Carve) and try to cause maximum damage and end it as soon as you can. The longer you drag it out, you will get killed by Siofra.

Playing with DoomKnight did require strats and has its prices built into the class after all. The ultra-offensive class stands nowhere near the defensive abilities of other classes such as Pyro and Exosuit.

DMK didn't need any banning at the end of the day.
DF Epic  Post #: 117
9/13/2017 21:26:12   
Jet Silver

Would it be bad to have the Elemental Chaos and Triple challenges behave similarly to the other challenges? Beat it without DmK first, then free to use even V1?

Now I know to most this doesn't matter... But I have 3 Destiny Weapons I gotta fully upgrade. (Wonder why I got 3? Shadow classes. ) I could potentially go through the trouble of beating them both 3 times, and whatever troubles I find in my attempts in-between, and certainly that would also be some great bragging rights, but I feel the same way about these challenges as others do regarding the other challenges. Beating it first proves I'm capable, and endured the trial. Then I've earned the right to try it with a broken flying brick that renders any possible challenging battle against titans a mere light scuffle. I'd honestly prefer it over a gold sink, especially since it still proves that whoever got an Ultimate Destiny weapon couldn't just cheese their way through it the first time by having enough dough (in-game of course, though I suppose IRL is applicable too) to Life Carve through it.

(Hope this doesn't count as bumping a dead thread. Anything more than a 2 week old thread was the limit right? I just genuinely thought this was the best place to bring it up.)

EDIT: I was surprised to see Elemental Chaos could be done with the current DmK armor. It was still challenging, but definitely not quite what it'd be otherwise. Honestly I'd suggest locking the current DmK too until the challenge is beaten. Though that might be because Corruption + Evil Weapon + Evil DOT was helping shave off Siofra's health, a somewhat strategic solution I'm not sure I could've beaten the challenge without. I'm gonna try Dragonslayer for Triple Trouble though.

EDIT2: And gee. Dragonslayer has certainly found a niche for itself. I really wouldn't be surprised if that poison could be considered more OP than Life Carve for this challenge. It's disgusting. I barely got hit too. That's 1 Ultimate Destiny down anyways. Getting the other 2 won't be as time-consuming as I thought I guess. But is that really the feeling that should be instilled in me right now? Honestly though the Elemental Chaos challenge is still tough as nails even with DoomKnight. I just about ran out of mana before Siofra hit 2000 health. I would've probably felt a similar way if I had Icebound Revenant to negate Siofra's shifting weakness, though I don't know if it'd hold up well against Theo. Thank god for Stan Mritha and Leon though, I couldn't have made it through either challenge without them. Ultimately I think even with basic DoomKnight people are gonna have to think real hard if they want to get through these challenges, and that's absolutely great. Proper equipment pets and guests still mattered a great deal. Though again, Dragon poison can apparently fell any lizard swiftly. I'd try the challenge again sometime without Dragonslayer, but I fear that 22 turn heal of Oratoth's, and like, everything else. And after doing the challenges myself, I think a gold sink to use V1 DmK isn't that bad an idea, but I do still think having it behave like the other challenges would work better. Great job on these bosses Verly.

EDIT3: Yeah I got lucky the first time. Elemental Chaos is definitely giving me trouble now.

< Message edited by Jet Silver -- 9/14/2017 11:42:37 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 118
9/14/2017 8:35:28   

For me I thought beating elemental chaos with doomknight V2 was a breeze.

To be fair though I wasn't playing a glass cannon doomknight, and most likely using different equipment.
Post #: 119
9/14/2017 10:35:45   
Jet Silver

Yeah, I'm a 200 LUK 200 CHA and 20 WIS kinda guy. (Again, don't want to invest in just one STR/DEX/INT when you have 3 base classes. ) I imagine if I fully invested in STR I would've had an easier time. But then, redoing stats gets expensive. Very much so at 85.

< Message edited by Jet Silver -- 9/14/2017 12:27:32 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 120
9/14/2017 15:29:48   

I've just decided I don't care enough about the destiny weapons to continue beating my head against this wall and losing my gold. IBR was the best armor, with the best gear, that I could bring to bear, but against Elemental Chaos I still lose, no matter if I take one of them down with me, which I usually do. Good luck to all of you!
DF  Post #: 121
9/14/2017 15:47:12   
Jet Silver

@GammaCavy Are you bringing Leon and Mritha with you? I found the best thing is to stun lock one as much as you can while you take care of the other. For IR you might wanna stun Theano and focus on Siofra.

And on that note, I've finally gotten all 3 Ultimate Destiny weapons. Now the question begs, if we infused the Destiny Weapons with shards of the Ultimate Orb to make them into these new forms, what are we gonna do with the Doom Weapons? I say we bring in the Ultimate BACON Orb.

< Message edited by Jet Silver -- 9/14/2017 15:48:02 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 122
9/16/2017 16:56:33   

How about making a DMK specific quest with no drops/rewards?
Post #: 123
9/16/2017 17:22:15   
Jet Silver

Unless it's something like covering how we found our DoomKnight armor, I'd find that kind of pointless. As far as DoomKnight specific stuff goes, I like the added stuff to Doom-related enemies like the Doom Amulet or DoomCrawler just fine.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 124
9/17/2017 18:20:40   

Cool, I use a 200 END, 120 WIS and 100 LUK on my doomknight (new).

And I use a healing set on mine, so I can pretty much life carve with corruption is like nearly a full heal from like 500 hp. And I can easily blood rite spam without having to worry too much about my health. And life carve is on a 4 sec cooldown which is great and I can even increase my healing further with drain essence.

Doomknight v2 might be the best at using a healing set or if not one of the best. Because it's pretty good as well on deathknight and paladin, because their passive HoTs get a good boost as well.
Post #: 125
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