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10/8/2017 16:01:18   
elixxon
Member

Back from a long break....

These new faces are aesthetically bad especially their emotes, and the Hero has the facial expression of a cold blooded serial killer...

Is that even Dragonfable at all at this point?


Well just my 2 cents... can't provide any constructive criticism other than "bring back the old ways" so I'll just keep to myself my opinion about every single detail of the Book 3 part I find terrible. It would get repetitive.

Well not like my opinion has any significance, and I see people complimenting this... thing the world turned into and truly enjoying the game so who am I to ruin the fun?

PS: apologies for the rude manner... I'm just salty.
DF  Post #: 1
10/8/2017 22:18:47   
Flabagast
Member

Firstly, welcome back! :P

Secondly, For a lot of us, the changes to how NPCs emote over time have really complemented how the methods of storytelling have changed over the past ...seven-ish years. A lot of us were getting wary of seeing NPCs being so expressive and detailed, meanwhile the Hero only having a small pool of facial expressions, and relative dated art. Thus, the change was quite welcomed overall.

Lastly, I get that change can be hard to swallow sometimes. I'm sure most of us can empathise with what you're saying.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 2
10/9/2017 4:03:26   
elixxon
Member

The female faces in general are just so cold in this artstyle.
Like everyone have the ice queen's face that Walric and Xan went ham on each other over copy pasted to save budget.
Meh wrong simile. DF was using a base model with different colors since the beginning...
The problem is we shouldn't have everyone look cold. Couldn't they just make a different base for characters like "Why Did No One Punch Her With A Brick" fitting their personality, from characters who definitely doesn't fit that cold look like Robina, the Heroine, etc.

Self-censored or not, profanity is not allowed on the forums. ~Gingkage

< Message edited by Gingkage -- 10/9/2017 9:55:42 >
DF  Post #: 3
10/9/2017 7:14:10   
Greyor_42
Member

@elixxon

quote:

Like everyone have the ice queen's face that Walric and Xan went ham on each other over copy pasted to save budget.


well, there are actually now something like 72 different faces any one character can make at any given time(as opposed to the old...what was it? 44?), with the "base" face being completely neutral, so i feel you're kind of exaggerating here. and there are many much more happy faces that are used quite frequently. the issue mostly lies in the scenarios that are happening recently in book 3 more than the "default face", really, since book 3 is much more serious than books 1 or 2, thus facial expressions from most characters are going to be a bit more serious most of the time.


besides, the hero HAD been frozen in a giant block of ice for 5 years prior to book 3. that tends to not leave a normally happy, kind person in a very good mood. especially when the person who froze them is now somehow running the kingdom that said happy, kind person had been fighting to protect for the past couple of years. the hero has changed after the ending of book 2, and quite a large number of events in book 3, since the purpose of book 3 so far has pretty much been about breaking the hero down into a gibbering mess. i mean, have you played the caitiff saga? or the book 3 tomix saga? it's honestly amazing that the hero has any happiness left in them at all after those two specifically.
DF  Post #: 4
10/9/2017 9:04:46   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

^
quote:

~original: @Greyor_42
besides, the hero HAD been frozen in a giant block of ice for 5 years prior to book 3. that tends to not leave a normally happy, kind person in a very good mood.

I'd really like to know how you acquired this information.

quote:

~original: @elixxon
"Why Did No One Punch Her With A Brick"

In answer to your question, because the Hero punched them with a brick first.


Base characters are far more realistically proportioned than previously. When the faces were introduced, Tomix (Or Dove/Tove if you like) showed us some comparisons with the previous faces. The female head was so small that when scaled to the size of the male head, the female body dwarfed that of the male.
There are now more happy expressions than there used to be, when the 'old ways' were applicable. They simply aren't used as frequently, for reasons Greyor has already covered.
The old AE style of flippant humor may be relegated to the past, but the audience seem to prefer it this way... and the original team are either working on their newer games, or no longer affiliated with the company. Given the quality of storyline-- and in fact general game design-- in those, I think we have cause to be grateful for the DF team.

< Message edited by Shiny_Underpants -- 10/9/2017 9:05:38 >
DF MQ  Post #: 5
10/9/2017 11:25:42   
elixxon
Member

quote:

besides, the hero HAD been frozen in a giant block of ice for 5 years prior to book 3.

The Hero was unconscious and shrugged off the ice block like the usual stuff it had to deal with in the past.

quote:

the purpose of book 3 so far has pretty much been about breaking the hero down into a gibbering mess

I never understood the reasoning behind making this game into a psycho-horror to begin with.
Valthrith was more annoying than anything(I am lightyears ahead of YOU Hero and I shall do EEEVUL villain things, leaving you alive because I am so OP no one can beat be and it will never bite me in the booty later) and Caitiff's entire character in a nutshell is "let's stomp the ever-unliving... -whatever left inside- out of that character everyone loves just for the hell of it".

I just can't see where could something like this be headed. The Hero's purpose is slowly starting to be "always being late to the party and getting it's backside handed to it" reaching the point when you don't really see why is this Average Joe even considered any special other than they keep stumbling into the biggest messes and grabbed into overly large things it never signed up for and the only possible outcome is to get their backside handed to them with no effort from the enemy's part.
I keep questioning during these "new" scenes: "Why is my character so utterly powerless? He/She went toe to toe with things so extreme as DEATH and either WON or got out in one piece."


< Message edited by elixxon -- 10/9/2017 11:29:12 >
DF  Post #: 6
10/9/2017 11:29:20   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


^

The Hero is very good at stabbing things. The problem in Book 3 is that he/she doesn't know what to stab.
Epic  Post #: 7
10/9/2017 13:49:46   
elixxon
Member

Even when there is a clear enemy the Hero just gets tossed around until in the very end it just grits through everything the boss throws at it being the tough nut it is, but all seem to come from it's stubborn endurance than the strength of the pre-timeskip Hero.

The whole scenario just feels like the Man of Steel controversy. One side being upset about all the things the MoS Superman is emo about is just simply beneath the character of Superman itself. The other side is basically like "It's all right. This human-god Superman is not even in the same universe with the True-Hero Superman everyone grew up with. Different universe, different happenings, different grown up Clark.", which is valid imo.
In Dragonfable's case however the entire world is built on Book1's "fable" setting, with the world being whacky and crazy, the hero being the straight man in the joke until it shows that it is just as insane as the world sometimes, and the story is about it's journey traveling through the world helping anyone in need and meeting friends along the way.
The New Hero's constant doubt about it's burdens and "regret" for not being an omnipotent GOD that can save everything and solve all problems in existence is just feels waaay out of character. The Old Hero was helping everyone in need because it simply wanted to(same reason why the Wonder Woman Movie's No Man's Land scene is so beloved) and it's motivation to fight any evil that comes in the way without a second thought was rock solid because it's will to protect people was fueled from the fact that it is a close friend to so many people at so many places. Even when the adversary was just way too powerful the hero survived, endured and stood up again being an ever standing beacon of hope. While the New One does not seem to even know why does it stand up at all because of the obligation of the conscience it have remained.



PS:little grammar question: How do you refer to a person with unspecified gender? For some reason "they" is stuck in my head but an English teacher told me that the way to refer to single number third person is "it" which just sounds like referring to a person as an object(feels so damn weird).(English is not my native)
DF  Post #: 8
10/9/2017 13:55:48   
Tomix
Soulweaver


I'm sorry you feel this way.
DF  Post #: 9
10/9/2017 14:46:31   
elixxon
Member

Nah you can't appeal to everyone man... everyone's different.
I see people are greatly enjoying it and it is shown you are giving your soul into your work so it is evidently good work. ;)
Given my language barriers it is difficult to convey how do I feel exactly.

Back to the topic of faces...
The female Hero's expression feels a bit cold. Given the events of Book3 it makes sense but it feels out of place in Book1 locations. Would it be possible to give her a bit friendlier idle expression at least in the more happy Book1 content? If people agree with it of course.

< Message edited by elixxon -- 10/9/2017 14:59:02 >
DF  Post #: 10
10/9/2017 15:29:44   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

Many including myself have really wanted the updated faces so i'm going to have to heavily disagree with you as i finally have a reason to take off my helmets. I like that our hero can finally truly emote instead of only having this kind of expression. You are also coming back after many many changes so I'd chalk this up to things changing "suddenly" without prior knowledge, I am sure once you get used to it the faces won't be much of an issue to you

< Message edited by Dark Lord Urmi -- 10/9/2017 15:36:49 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 11
10/9/2017 17:10:39   
elixxon
Member

The male Hero has a serious face on which looks good and fitting for the character, but the female's default expression just feels really cold. That's what I'm meaning to say but I may have issues expressing myself due to language and being tired which I apologize for.
DF  Post #: 12
10/9/2017 17:37:49   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

you don't need to apologize I understand what you are saying, you disagree with the new faces and feel like the female ones are too serious and as you said cold and i disagree with you it's not offensive we don't have to agree XD


This has the female face possible combinations on it mess around with it there are quite a few warm faces here.

currently our hero doesn't have much to smile about these days.

< Message edited by Dark Lord Urmi -- 10/9/2017 17:40:47 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 13
10/9/2017 17:50:48   
Greyor_42
Member

@elixxon

quote:

The Hero was unconscious and shrugged off the ice block like the usual stuff it had to deal with in the past.


i'm going to have to disagree with the hero "shrugging it off", considering both how well they took the way aegis saved them during the calamity finale(not very),
quote:

<Character>: Hnnngh...
Aegis: <Character>! I sensed that you were in danger and came as soon-
<Character>: DON'T... don't ever do that again...
<Character>: No...
<Character>: No ice!
<Character>: No ice!
<Character>: Don't put me in ice ever again!
<Character>: No ice...
Aegis: A- Apologies!
<Character>: I am thankful you saved my life, just...
<Character>: No... ice... no...

and the fact that they keep bringing it up in front of the arch-maguses in a VERY grudge-like way.
quote:

<Character>: I haven't had very many positive interactions with your organization. I tend not to take it well when someone freezes me in a giant block of ice.

quote:

<Character>: ...
<Character>: Do we really need to exchange niceties? The last time I saw you it was through a wall of ice you trapped me in.

quote:

<Character>: Jaania.
Jaania: I've heard you will be gracing us with your presence.
<Character>: You look positively... cold.
Jaania: Thank you.
Jaania: You look lukewarm, at best.
<Character>: I think I'm going to need some ice for that burn, but I don't want history to repeat itself.

the hero being unconscious doesn't mean it didn't traumatize them, considering they were unconscious for FIVE YEARS, and woke up to a world they barely even recognized anymore.
DF  Post #: 14
10/9/2017 20:09:05   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

^And I'm not sure they even were unconscious the whole time, because Jaania was conscious in her own crystal. That, and they had to be conscious to break out like they did, certainly it could've happened right as that scene starts but they're still completely encased in solid ice at that point so what would be the trigger?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 15
10/9/2017 20:29:34   
Greyor_42
Member

@sakurai the cursed

actually, we came up with a relatively solid expalantion for that a while back:

jaania was conscious for those 250-some odd years because of her natural attunement to the ice element, so the cold didn't shut her down. the hero isn't attuned to any element, so we did lose consciousness for those 5 years, but due to it thawing out, we started to wake up around the time book 3 started. basically, the "solid ice" wasn't as solid as it had been originally anymore, especially due to the acceleration to the thawing process that warlic had supplied.
DF  Post #: 16
10/9/2017 21:58:45   
Solargeo
Member

I say the Hero woke up to a world where, Magical creatures are being Oppressed just for EXISTING , all due to villains trying to conquer the world or such and one ALMOST succeeding. And the fact that most of the rose ( the AntimyVile one is the of the better if best ones) seem to think any magic is BAD , the fact that their DRAGON our companion for several years could be taken from them just for being Magical and Book 3's Calamity Sage Did NOTHING to help the hero .

That they have sorta reached a point of realizing being a go lucky hero with all they get in can get them in some big trouble, and the fact several of their best friends have died made their pyche even more cracked. I am surprised Jaania even THINKS pushing a Dragon Lord with a World Destroyer Dragon is a good thing because she could cause him to snap and cause the end.
I am sure with the Saga with the king might knock some Sense in to Jaania and the King, Hek Learning the KING supported this made it worst.

I think most People would be a bit more Cynical and more Serious after all that. And to be honest I know it sounds like i hate her, But Jaania is extremely stupid. A SMART person try and get on the Hero's Good side. And not push their buttons due to a POSSIBLE future.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 17
10/9/2017 22:05:40   
PurgeXZ
Member

Well... I guess I can see where you're coming from.
Sadly, the graphics and facial expressions of this game really do not do the emotional, funny, serious or casual moments justice. It needs some terrific graphics, like... IDK, Persona 5 level? Overwatch level? I doubt AE would ever get that kind of budget, lol.
Post #: 18
10/9/2017 22:17:36   
Greldracion
Member

I think the only face I really miss is the almost Cheshire like grin our characters had when they were smiling, but other than that, I think the faces are a definite improvement over what they were before.
AQ  Post #: 19
10/10/2017 2:58:05   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

Relatively recently, I made a thread to discuss potential storyline genres and directions players might want to see in Dragonfable. There were a number of interesting responses (and it certainly assisted with some of my projects), but there were two that were reiterated by a number of members:
Some of the members wanted horror, more types of storylines that created conflict and questioned the Hero's status and role.
Others preferred things to be heartwarming, focusing on character interactions and kindness, perhaps as a reminder to what is pleasant and gives life meaning. The Hero is meant to be kind, after all.
As you can see, these focus on two very different aspects of the Hero's characterisation. The horror shows their adaptibility, perhaps instilling hope in the manner in which the Hero overcomes the obstacles relentlessly thrown in their path.
The heartwarming shows their kindness, instilling hope more directly in how the Hero nurtures things in preparation for the future.
I suppose you could label them as masculinist and feminine approaches to characterisation, respectively. In this case, you object to the masculinist, correct?

I also recommend (if you've finished the Weaver saga), going to Aegis' house in Book 3 Ravenloss and completing his personal quest. As well as Book 3 Aria's Mother's Day quests.



quote:

~original: @elixxon
PS:little grammar question: How do you refer to a person with unspecified gender? For some reason "they" is stuck in my head but an English teacher told me that the way to refer to single number third person is "it" which just sounds like referring to a person as an object(feels so damn weird).(English is not my native)

You are correct, 'it' refers to an inanimate, which is a weird way to refer to a person. It used to be common to refer to babies that way in the 20th century, but this century it's that's considered offensive.
There are four ways to refer to a living creature with unspecified gender (I've given this rant before... maybe I should find or make a blog post or something to attach...). Two of them make sense.

1: In English, neutral is feminine. You can refer to a person with unspecified gender using the feminine pronouns (she, her, etc.)
Think of a captain of a ship referring to it as 'she'. This is because the ship is considered to have a soul. Also because sailors like women.
...Maybe that's a bad example.

2: Another technically correct way is to use inconsistent pronouns. If you alternate between describing a gender neutral person as 'she' and 'he', this applies. It's an extremely confusing method, however. Also, the precise sequence (F, M, F, M...) of the person's pronouns may be disrupted if you edit, which can then cause further confusion... so it's not really a method I would recommend.

3: The singular 'they'. While technically incorrect according to traditional methodology, this is the least ambiguous; the only ambiguity comes in comparisons between a single person and a group of people. Since this is the clearest option, it is colloquially correct; in time I suspect it will become technically correct.

4: Keri Hulme's gender neutral pronouns, which comprise 've', 'vis' and 'ver'. These are not a technical component of the English language, but they can be used.
I tried using them in a story once... it did not work so well, and I ended up removing them. I recall the Greg Egan novel 'Disapora' used them without too much incident. Overall, I would not recommend them except in certain circumstances.


I typically use the singular 'they' for most applications where I need to be understood. In essays which prohibit this, I then switch to the feminine. Both are invisible to readers, but feminine is confusing for people unaware of the grammatical rules.
DF MQ  Post #: 20
10/10/2017 5:13:41   
elixxon
Member

Thank for the clarification. Writing that entire post with "it" felt sooo damn wrong.

In my country they teach Oxford English.
DF  Post #: 21
10/10/2017 8:04:45   
Greyor_42
Member

yeah, "it" more connotates a lack of gender, as opposed to an ambiguous/fluid gender like the hero has.


...though, neutral being feminine is also a bit awkward and technically incorrect in the case of dragonfable's hero, since you can end up referring to "male" heroes as "her", and i'm PRETTY sure that my hero is definitely not a her, last i checked......


actually, another way to look at it is that there's The Hero, and then personal player heroes, with The Hero being made up of all of the personal player heroes combined, which, in a sense would make The Hero both a single person and multiple people(which actually may be canon due to the inn at the edge of time being a thing). so, if you interpret it that way, "they" could actually be gramattically correct if referring to The Hero, instead of your own personal hero.
DF  Post #: 22
10/10/2017 8:32:49   
ShadowStarr5
Member

quote:

Shiny_Underpants

1: In English, neutral is feminine. You can refer to a person with unspecified gender using the feminine pronouns (she, her, etc.)


So THAT's why I sometimes see articles without a specific person mentioned using feminine pronouns. Interesting

_____________________________

~Regards,
A Rampant AI~
AQ DF  Post #: 23
10/10/2017 14:51:41   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

Genderfluid? i missed that selection on the character creation screen...where did this even come from i thought this was about the updated faces?
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 24
10/10/2017 16:10:24   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

^I believe that was meant to say that the hero is not genderless (and so using feminine pronouns doesn't work), their gender is just ambiguous because they can be either male or female (or whatever else) depending on the player's choice. Not that each individual hero has a fluid gender.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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