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RE: =DF= Design Notes November 3: Blood Moon Challenges, SWoT DA testing, and more!

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11/3/2017 20:34:47   

Well, I think I'm in love with this class, it my push Master SW out as my favorite. Great work on it guys.
DF  Post #: 26
11/3/2017 20:37:54   
Henius Lon

Possible bug: I'm supposed to still be in Umbral form, but I'm above the ground. I used Eternity Ray the previous turn, forget what I used before that. Have the version IV's of the new helm and cape equipped, ultimate twin blades of destiny

image: https://i.imgur.com/ATTkNen.png

< Message edited by Henius Lon -- 11/3/2017 20:39:06 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 27
11/3/2017 20:39:13   

SWoT is finally in testing, this is truly a great day! I ran through the Jack Crescent and the Minotaur boss battles just to warm things up, and I plan to mess around with it some more, but I figured I'd give my first impressions.

Starting off with just the appearance, the style amazed me. I was expecting it to be a type of monster class like ChronoCorrupter or Avatar of Time, so seeing that it is literally a shadow of the player character caught me off guard. Along with the blackened out items and double spinning weapons, this class has a really sweet style to it. As another advantage, I can still see the PC's facial expressions, so that makes a definite plus for me.

I noticed that Decay applies a healing debuff. That is a bit of a niche, but a 50% healing reduction sounds powerful against foes with constant healing abilities. Looking at the rest of the skills, the class power level is like a combination between Rift Walker and Ascendant. That probably sounds strange because those classes are practically the opposite of each other in their offensive abilities, but SWoT seems to capture that feeling.

Like RiftWalker, SWoT has some huge burst potential with Shadow People, Shade Spikes, and Decay. Shadow People especially deals some hefty damage in the first turn, easily one-turn-killing most weaker foes. However, if you take this route, you will end up wasting a whole lot of damage potential later on. Not ideal for lengthy boss battles. On the other hand, it has some Ascendant vibes with the Umbra side, having to ration out what skills you use at the start of the fight and within the shadows to set up some massive attacks and persistently damaging combos. You say that you wanted the class to be a strategic glass cannon, and I think you nailed it. There is some good offensive versatility here and a quite a few different options for different scenarios.

Looking at the defensive side of the class, I wasn't expecting much. Obviously a glass cannon isn't going to be using skills to soak up damage. That said, I like the healing skill a lot. It can be incredibly useful in a pinch, or just an effective way to end off a battle so that you can be fully healed in the next fight. The cool down time makes it pretty much impossible to use more than once in any normal fight, but that is how it should be. However, either Velo de la Sombra or the stuns are a bit lacking in my opinion. I don't expect major changes, if any at all, for the defensive skills in order to improve them, but I feel like at least one of these skills should be just a little stronger.

Starting with Sombra. At first I was disappointed in it taking away shadow charges, but now I see that it helps round out the strategic nature of the class. That said, I feel like it should have a lower cool down, maybe with one less turn of defense to compensate. If it is already going to take away shadow charges, then I would think it works well as a panic button with that alone. One thing I don't want to do with this class is waste my shadow charges; my combo, damage, and healing potential depends entirely on them. I believe that Sombra should be a way to defend yourself from attacks that you know are about to completely crush you, so being able to consume all of your charges for a couple turns of protection seems more ideal that wasting all of the charges, then not being able to defend yourself for another 8 turns.

You could argue that Sombra makes for a good defensive option when you combine it with both of the stuns, and in some cases that is absolutely correct. Shielding yourself for three turns, then locking down your opponent for four turns, is some insane amount of protection for a glass cannon. That is unless your opponent has even slightly adequate immobility resistance or attack avoidance. In this case, both stun skills are so risky that I'd rather not even touch them. Long cool down times are a given for all stun skills, but when you have two stun skills with long cool downs, it kind of feels like once they are used, your skill set is crippled for the rest of the fight. Especially if BOTH stuns fail. So how would I go about in changing this? I would either want the stun chance to be significantly higher, or have the cool downs reduced so that if the stuns fail, I won't need to wait too long before trying it again. I would personally prefer to see the stun chance improved, as you can repeat the skills as many times as they come off cool down, but if you are fighting a foe with immobility resistance of 50 or higher, those two turn stuns don't sound very appealing. Especially Chronic Lock, which is going to sacrifice a shadow charge to use. The way I see it, Doomsday Clock should hit the opponent 2 or 3 times to ensure that the stun will take affect, and then Chronic Lock could either strike one opponent several times or strike all opponents once. I think this change could improve the usability of these skills by a fair amount.

All of the other skills seem to work pretty nicely. As I explained earlier, this class is great for either huge burst damage, or setting up for extreme combos. The one major downside, other than the defenses, is how the class kind of fades away in usability after some time. There are a lot of long cool down abilities. I haven't tested enough to get a feel of the hardest battles with the class, but I feel a little sketchy about how well the class may be able to fare in some of the longest fights.
Of another note, Eternity Ray's cool down is insane. Which isn't really a big deal, considering how powerful it is, but I don't think that will be usable more than once per quest.

Wrapping things up for now, I notice that there are some oddities with animations. A lot of times after using skills the weapons will just stop spinning, sometimes my character pulls out of the shadows while in Umbra form, but he will still have access to Umbra skills, and it overall feels kind of twitchy when nothing is happening. I'm sure that this is something that will be ironed out as testing goes on, but I just thought I'd mention it. Another thing about animations I would like to mention, would it be possible to speed up the time it takes to complete Shade Spikes? It flows smoothly, but having to reset the full animation for every target makes multi target fights tedious, which is kind of a shame because it is actually a really good multi skill. I don't know how you would go about changing this, but maybe it would be best to have the animation only play once, and while the entire thing is going on all of the targets are taking multiple hits of damage in rapid succession? I mean, it would be impossible to see the damage numbers if they are popping up that quickly, but it beats having to wait for the animation to play out three times.

Well, that's all I have for now. I will post some more thoughts later on after I get more into the full aspects of the class for all verities of quests. I'll admit that I haven't tested it much, and the quests I used are not very hard, but this is just how I feel of the class for now. I expect my opinions to change later on, but as mentioned, these are just my first impressions.
Post #: 28
11/3/2017 20:43:35   
AQW Lore-titician

By the way, if you manage to implement the shadow charges counter over the Attack Button, can you please turn off the "notifications"? After a while, it gets kind of annoying having a pop up text every single turn.

mabe a solution for Spikes could be reducing the hits and increasing the damage proportionaly, like cut the hits in half and double the damage while leaving the animation only once.

< Message edited by ergotth -- 11/3/2017 20:48:32 >
DF AQW  Post #: 29
11/3/2017 20:44:15   
Henius Lon

Also, this is just another opinion, but the spinning icons for the two stuns feels kinda tacky to me. Anyone else feel the same way?

< Message edited by Henius Lon -- 11/3/2017 20:48:59 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 30
11/3/2017 20:44:40   

Bamzalot, ,you're good at putting words to this. I notice these things somewhat intuitively, but have never been able to describe them. Thanks for spelling it out, it will help me build my SWoT strategy!

The way that it darkens your accessories, like the Atrea Dream wings, is wonderful. It makes them feel like part of this unearthly thing, rather than seperate, the way accessories normally do.

< Message edited by GammaCavy -- 11/3/2017 20:47:49 >


sincerely, your friendly neighborhood warrior thespian dark lord and counter guardian Gamma Cavy
DF  Post #: 31
11/3/2017 20:50:20   
Da Awesomancer

Oof, that Jack Crescent challenge surprised me near the end by requiring you to beat both him and the GGoD at the same time. Nothing I couldn't survive, but definitely put me on the defensive for a few turns while the "Snapped" DoT ate at my HP.

Shadow Walker of Time looks and plays great! I especially like the shadow effect it gives helms and wings (haven't tried with a cape).
DF AQW  Post #: 32
11/3/2017 20:56:04   

Is healing in the menu supposed to kill you now? Because after I failed one of the challenges after realising (like a moron) that I forgot to re-equip my gear after changing to SWoT (Looking great, by the way.) Instead of healing, THIS happened.


The pessimist complains about the wind;
the optimist expects it to change;
the realist adjusts the sails.
- William Arthur Ward
DF  Post #: 33
11/3/2017 20:57:41   
AQW Lore-titician

not to mention is makes it MUCH easier to match the items in your set, not having to work about colours clashing and all ^^
DF AQW  Post #: 34
11/3/2017 21:05:13   
Henius Lon

I switched to Doomknight V1 after using SWoT and I still have the slots for the charges above my attack button.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 35
11/3/2017 21:05:46   
AQW Lore-titician

wait, the charge slots are implemented? I see none! Maybe if I relog.

By the way, something noteworthy of this class is that it kind of allows you two different styles: Gathering 3 shadow charges before goingt in Umbra form for 3 turns, or going back and fort between umbra and penumbra by simply going int oteh shadows in the first shadow charge you get :D

< Message edited by ergotth -- 11/3/2017 21:13:59 >
DF AQW  Post #: 36
11/3/2017 21:09:25   

For the sisters, would equipping a weapon not meant for your base class work? that seems the best way to get around their insane B/D/P but does the lack of appropriate stat reduce your damage too much to be effective?
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 37
11/3/2017 21:09:43   

Just defeated the Cauldron Sisters. I screwed up the first time around after Toil dodged both of my stuns in a row, then proceeded to wipe the last of my health. So, that just solidifies my opinion that the stuns need a bit of an improvement. I beat them the second time with slight difficulty. I got down to 400 health, but was never in real danger of failure. The key to that fight was whether or not the sister could B/P/D my attacks. If it wasn't for that defense, SWoT would have certainty been an ace against them.

However, that made me realize that SWoT is a very crit focused class. It only has two actual damage buffs in the form of Penumbra and Gear of Time, and Penumbra is only guaranteed to be effective with the final skills. This is great for the strategic part of the class, so I imagine you don't want to make any changes to that. But if you were to change it, I would suggest that Penumbra increase critical hit chance along with critical damage. This would help make full use of the skill, as anytime that my final skills aren't going to have an effect, I'm really throwing the full potential of that skill to luck.

EDIT: So, I just went against the Minotaur again, and I noticed that Penumbra doesn't actually really do anything??? I attacked using Shadow People with my SoulForged Staff. I consistently hit for 113 damage without any damage buffs. I did it again after using Penumbra the turn before, and I still only dealt 113 damage. Then I tested it with Gear of Time, and dealt a consistent 167 damage. Finally, I tested it with both Penumbra and Gears of Time active, and dealt 167 damage again. I think this needs fixed.

< Message edited by Bamzalot -- 11/3/2017 21:19:39 >
Post #: 38
11/3/2017 21:14:00   

Well I just bought the calander, thankfully it was still in stock, I'm gonna have some fun when SWoT is fully released.
DF  Post #: 39
11/3/2017 21:19:49   
Henius Lon

@Hermitpriest haha me too :D There should be a nice bump in sales for it over this weekend.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 40
11/3/2017 21:24:38   

Just found another pair of bugs. One is specific to the SWoT, and the other only appears to be. If you equip a weapon while in the SWoT armour, then click "Hide" on said weapon, only one of the pair is replaced by the Default weapon. The weapon that is supposed to be hidden can still be seen floating behind you.

Also, when your mouse hovers over the character details menu, the MP bar just kinda, fades out of existence.

Also also, my previous report about healing in the menu killing you instead also appears specific to the SWoT.

DF  Post #: 41
11/3/2017 21:29:15   

@Commander_In_Red Those are some, interesting, bugs. With the exception of the doubled up weapons, I haven't had any experiences with the killing menu or fading mana bar. Is there something specific that you think is causing them?

I would also like to say that having two different weapon styles shown at once is the greatest thing that has ever happened to this game ever and should NOT be fixed. Please?

EDIT: Just defeated Jack Crescent and his Gnarly Guitar of Doom. That fight went much, MUCH smoother than the sisters. I think this kind of battle is better suited for SWoT than the sisters, as I had one target to face who dealt generally low damage. It was tanky, and the guitar came back after death thanks to me failing to wipe out Jack at the same time, but it still went well. In my first post I claimed that SWoT would have problems dealing with longer fights, due to the long cool downs causing the offensive and defensive potential to gradual fall off after some time. I would like to retract that statement, as it seems like the class has no problems keeping consistent DPT as long as the shadow charges are not being squandered. This falls in nicely with the low defenses from the strategic point.

That being said... Both of these tough fights reinforced my earlier thoughts that the Sombra shield needs to have the shadow charges as the primary punishment, not a long cool down. There were occasional times during both battles that I knew I needed that defense, but the primary reason for me not wanting to invest in the defense was because I wanted to save up those charges to set up some heavier damage later on. The long cool down feels like an unnecessary struggle when I already have to judge whether the three turns of decreased damage is worth using all of my charges. I figured that it would have some usage after I come out from Umbra, but now I realize that if I am coming out of Umbra, it is probably because I am ready to unleash some serious damage. Right now, that skill only seems useful at the very beginning of the fight.

Now, an idea just came to mind, and maybe this will sound completely unreasonable, but I think it would actually help the class as a whole. What if instead of being a shield, Sombra was a cool down reduction skill? Really, that shield is proving to be unreliable in it's current state, but I understand that you want the defenses to be lacking. Now, if it were to be swapped out for a cool down reduction, that would be a big help with the long cool down finals, the stuns, and a few other skills with some long cool downs. Of course, the skill could still consume all shadow charges, but in this case I at least feel like I'm getting something out of it. Would this be a possibility?

< Message edited by Bamzalot -- 11/3/2017 21:49:34 >
Post #: 42
11/3/2017 21:37:24   

The fading MP bar has been happening since the Interface went back to normal a week ago. Also noticed a bug where I'm still in Umbra form, but my avatar has reappeared. Umbra skills open, shadow charge left, Left hand skills not working, but I'm visible again. This happens the moment I take damage. It's as annoying as the Edelia House Bug.

< Message edited by GammaCavy -- 11/3/2017 21:39:48 >
DF  Post #: 43
11/3/2017 21:39:27   
DragonFable Boxcat

Fading MP bar needs a cache clear to fix. version 14.1.14 will also make sure they're fixed too.
AQ MQ  Post #: 44
11/3/2017 21:40:59   

And it has been fixed already, your game must be cached.
DF  Post #: 45
11/3/2017 21:42:07   

Another bug: The Shield skill veil, doesn't actually work. The annimation is perfect, but my defenses don't change, and I'm still hit as hard as normally.
Thanks for the tip Verly. I'll try that.
DF  Post #: 46
11/3/2017 21:42:15   
Dark Lord Urmi

Commander_In_Red yeah i mentioned that myself, i hope it doesn't change i rather like the look of the time shield/blade with my Isandel.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 47
11/3/2017 21:52:06   

I would like the option to have the SWoT's promotional hair. However, I also find the fact that it blackens my current hairstyle rather cool... I guess this is alike having two weapons showing at once. Can we at least try out the promo hair that the one in the Inn at the Edge of Time has?
DF  Post #: 48
11/3/2017 21:53:52   


The "helm" and weapons for Shadow Walker of Time will be released once the class goes golden.
DF  Post #: 49
11/3/2017 21:55:13   

one bug i'd like to point out, when bubble uses the candy eating skill, it says she's weak to magic, but her vidible defensive stats say she's weak to melee, as her dodge and parry visibly increase, but block doesn't. however, she blocks all of my non-crit attacks anyways.

DF  Post #: 50
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