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RE: =DF= Design Notes November 3: Blood Moon Challenges, SWoT DA testing, and more!

 
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11/3/2017 21:57:45   
GammaCavy
Member

Thanks for that Tomix. I seem to have missed where you said that the first time. I take it that the 'helm' is the hairstyle then? Looking forward to seeing them!
DF  Post #: 51
11/3/2017 22:17:44   
Chewy905
Member

Yooooo using dragoncrest is awesome because you can set the two to different appearences!
Post #: 52
11/3/2017 22:30:09   
Bamzalot
Member

I'm interested in hearing what build ideas people come up with for SWoT. I am currently testing the class in Deepest Neverglades to get a feel of the longevity of the class. So far, it seems like the healing is enough to keep it going for a long time against hoards of non bosses. That said, mana is going to be an issue. The attack button regenerating some mana is useful, but not sufficient. Still, that is a lot more than most other classes can ask for, so I am perfectly okay with this.

Shadow People and Shade Spikes are effective at clearing these groups. However, the multi playing the full animation against each foe is really tedious. I like what @ergotth suggested. Play the animation once, but increase the damage proportionately to the hits for all foes. Maybe as the animation plays, all targets take two hits as each of the three rows of spikes pass through their line? I think that would solve this little issue.

EDIT: I am going to retract what I said about the mana regeneration not being sufficient for long quests like this. As long as you are patient, SWoT is easily capable of going through an entire quest using nothing but the basic attack and Consume the Shadows. The attack deals fairly good damage, so as long as monsters aren't too tanky it can deal with them in a few turns. Meanwhile, you are restoring minuscule amounts of mana that can stack up to enough for a heal if needed. This also builds up shadow charges, which means you can easily get a solid 60% heal once it becomes necessary. This class takes a long time to clear extensive quests, but there is not stopping it from doing so.

EDIT 2: Sombra is once again proving to be ineffective. I was thinking that it may have some more usage against hoards of multi fights that are non bosses, but I was wrong. With Shadow People, Shade Spikes, Consume the Shadows, and the attack regaining lost mana, I can not see any reason to use Sombra at any point during long quests. So, it is painfully lackluster against boss fights and pretty much pointless against normal enemies. I sincerely urge you to consider my thoughts on replacing it with a cool down reduction skill, because that would be so much more valuable to this class than a shield. But honestly, it doesn't need to be that either. Perhaps it could even be a damage reflection ability. Reflecting enemy damage could help improve the offensive power of the class. Basically, any kind of buff would be more useful than this shield.

Although, if anyone wants to give their two cents about the shield and let me know how wrong I am, I am open to hear how people are using it. Maybe I am just going about it the entirely wrong way and it is actually a vital skill?

< Message edited by Bamzalot -- 11/3/2017 23:00:16 >
Post #: 53
11/3/2017 22:39:04   
ergotth
AQW Lore-titician


while we don't have the promotional helm, I reccomend the Medusa mask from the Monstervania Mogloween and Pallor's helm if you dropped it from frostvale :)
DF AQW  Post #: 54
11/3/2017 23:32:24   
Bamzalot
Member

And I finally made it out of the Deepest Neverglades. That took a good long time. But SWoT made it all the way through with no difficulties whatsoever. This class has excellent longevity.

I don't really have anything new to say now than what I said in my last post. However, I am starting to question just how glass cannony this class actually is. I know I've been going on about the shield for a while now, but I still can't see any reason for it to be part of the class. I also feel like the overall damage of the class is good, but not as high as it should really be.

The final skills deal great damage, for sure. But the rest of the skills seem to only exist for comboing into one of those finals. There are some options of course. Phantom Hit is spammable and deals nice damage, and Impaling Hands inflicts fair damage and a decent DoT, but they aren't really the high impact skills that I thought this class would be armed with. Along with this, Phantom Hit consumes shadow charges which makes it an unreliable damaging skill. So, that is another suggestion I have. Increase the overall damage of a lot of the non final skills by a fair amount. Phantom Hit especially could do with a large damage buff to make it more appealing to use a charge on. Maybe you could increase the base damage by a slight amount and make it a guaranteed crit skill? That would play nicely with Penumbra. Right now the damage on these skills are decent, but just don't quite cut it out for a glass cannon.
Post #: 55
11/3/2017 23:47:19   
PurgeXZ
Member

Let's see here...

SWoT is completely useless against the Cauldron sisters...
Healing cooldown is absolutely ridiculous, should be reduced, no accuracy increasing move makes it impossible to tag any enemies with high evasion, Velo de la sombra is pretty much useless against any enemy that can reduce evasion...

If this is meant to be a glass cannon, it's going to need an accuracy-raising move. Seriously.

So all-in-all, this class is completely useless against any enemy that can increase their defense, or BPD. This is like trying to fight Matador in SMT: Nocturne without Sukukaja or Fog Breath.

< Message edited by PurgeXZ -- 11/3/2017 23:49:14 >
Post #: 56
11/3/2017 23:49:18   
PhantomKnight
Member

I'm loving this armor. So is this is for the 2017 calendar? or 2018?
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 57
11/3/2017 23:55:11   
Cherubic Card
Member

Hey, curious on the Necro Paragon Cape, is it supposed to not give any bonus, even at max level? Not that bonus is an absolutely necessary stat but....
Post #: 58
11/3/2017 23:57:03   
|3onez
Member
 

Go for 1 at a time and it actually stomps all 3. I beat them on the first attempt and my stats are 200 int/luck and 20 cha. If the combos are used right you can dish out 3000+ damage in 2 turns, the heal i have only had to use it against Siofra. The only issue i have with the class is say you have 3 shadows stacked and then get stunned for 3 turns. You lose all the shadows and cant use any of the skills on the right, im hoping its a bug since being stunned shouldn't count as using a charge.
Post #: 59
11/4/2017 0:00:14   
Lord GrimDusk
Member

The class feels quite weak, IMO. It doesn't have a guaranteed crit skill, has skills that are mediocre at best tbh. The art and animations are amazing though, so props for that. I just wish the umbral form had more of a defense boost than it currently does, because the class takes quite a lot of damage.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 60
11/4/2017 0:03:24   
Commander_In_Red
Member

@Purge Not sure what you mean about the SWoT being useless against the Cauldron Sisters. Beaten all the Blood Moon challenges with it.

That said, I'm not sure how I feel about the Umbral Mode Final attack having a cooldown that doesn't reset every time you start a new battle. Pyromancer's Full Heal? Absolutely understand the reasoning behind that. The Umbral Mode Final is powerful, but...that's about it.



Also, and I trust that this is an obvious and already-known-about bug but I feel compelled to report it regardless, taking damage sometimes in Umbral Mode causes you to reappear while still in Umbral Mode, then vanish when you attempt to use an Umbral Mode attack.
DF  Post #: 61
11/4/2017 0:08:15   
Tr4pD00r
Member

quote:

Although, if anyone wants to give their two cents about the shield and let me know how wrong I am, I am open to hear how people are using it. Maybe I am just going about it the entirely wrong way and it is actually a vital skill?


I agree that Sombra is indeed lackluster. Its really hard to fit in as its either always on cooldown or it is very disadvantageous to sacrifice all my shadow charges in the moment you really need it. And even then it is only a BPD shield which doesnt stop you from taking damage and leaves you still susceptible to critical hits.

I wouldnt be so quick to completely replace the shield though, as its the only defense on this glass clannon class I do think its a vital skill which is only in need of a small touch up to make it a bit more reliable. I suggest simply lowering the cooldown and making it MPM, or make it consume 1 shadow charge on use (if you have any) instead of all of them so that it can be integrated into the class' combos.
DF  Post #: 62
11/4/2017 0:10:01   
Greyor_42
Member

@lord grimdusk

quote:

It doesn't have a guaranteed crit skill


...uhhh...... it has two of them...... both of which are relatively powerful, and can be buffed further by one of its umbral skills.

also, the reason it takes the damage it does is because it's SUPPOSED to be a glass cannon class. if anything, it's already tankier than it was advertised.
DF  Post #: 63
11/4/2017 0:12:47   
Lord GrimDusk
Member

You're right, sorry. That was dumb of me to say. I think what I meant was there was no damage skill you could use consistently since the other two have large cooldowns. That was ignorant of me. I think it does suffer in battles against multiple foes, though.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 64
11/4/2017 0:19:50   
Greyor_42
Member

really? it works perfectly fine for me. the only reason it had trouble on the cauldron sisters challenge fight in my case was because my stat build is more approprate for a riftwalker. and even THEN, i didn't really have all that much trouble. the skills aren't too hard to cycle, either, even WITH the larger than normal cooldowns that some of them have.
DF  Post #: 65
11/4/2017 0:21:28   
Bamzalot
Member

@Tr4pD00r Alright, I see what you are saying. I suppose I am being too quick to just throw out the whole shield, but right now it just really isn't filling its purpose. I like all of your suggestions though, lower cool down, MPM defense, less shadow charges. If it worked that way, then I could certainly see this shield being a useful defensive tool. I am not asking for it to be a great shield, because I know that it isn't suppose to be. But I just don't think it should be rendered practically useless for all but the start of a boss fight.

I suppose I will throw out another suggestion, maybe the shield could double as a defensive and utility tool? If it is going to require a long cool down time AND shadow charges AND have poor defenses, maybe it could have something extra added in to make it more practical. For example, maybe it could purge negative status effects, increase the player's immobility resistance, increase healing percentage to make Consume the Shadows more effective, or maybe even give the player an extra turn after using it? I still believe that it would be beneficial if it had a cool down reducer to help ease the burden of the stuns, finals, and heal. If it had some kind of secondary buff like this, it would be a vastly improved skill.
Post #: 66
11/4/2017 0:30:15   
Commander_In_Red
Member

Okay, so I think I've discovered the cause of the Heal Kill bug I mentioned earlier. One of the Cauldron Groupies in the Challenge can hit you with a debuff that not only negates the recovery of health but also causes any attempt at healing to deal damage to you. Somehow I think this debuff came with me out of the challenge, so when I tried to heal through the BoL menu (bearing in mind that I had just lost the challenge and had 1 health left), the debuff negated the healing and replaced it with a small amount of damage, albeit enough damage to kill me in the Inn.

That's the only explanation I can think of.
DF  Post #: 67
11/4/2017 0:42:42   
Tr4pD00r
Member

quote:

I noticed that Penumbra doesn't actually really do anything???


I am also experiencing the same thing. Ive used Penumbra multiple times on different occasions and it seems to have no effect

Is Penumbra working fine for everyone else?

< Message edited by Tr4pD00r -- 11/4/2017 0:43:13 >
DF  Post #: 68
11/4/2017 0:52:36   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

Just gonna drop some details and numbers here for people to play around with strategies for SWoT. But please keep in mind that these are subject to change since the class is still in testing!

Shadow People - 333% damage with 100% crit chance, 14 turn CD, adds 1 shadow charge
Doomsday Clock - 200% damage, 2-turn stun, 14(!) turn CD, adds 1 shadow charge
Decay - 150% damage, +50 Health resist for 1 turn, 6 turn CD, adds 1 shadow charge
Shade Spikes - 175% damage to all enemies, 1 turn CD, adds 1 shadow charge
Consume the Shadows - Restores 20% of max HP per shadow charge stored, 29(!) turn CD, removes all shadow charges
Velo de la Sombra - +180 to BPD for 3 turns, 9(!) turn CD, removes all shadow charges
Antumbra - Exits Umbral form, skips enemy's turn, removes all shadow charges
Attack - 140% damage, restores 16 MP, adds 1 shadow charge (Also has a different animation in Umbral form! Nice touch :P )
Umbra - Goes into Umbral form, skips enemy's turn
Penumbra - Unclear, the buff is bugged atm and does nothing at all, 5 turn CD
Chronic Lock - 200% damage, 2-turn stun, 14(!) turn CD
Phantom Hit - 225% damage, 1 turn CD
Gear of Time - 200% damage, -50 All resist for 3 turns, 5 turn CD (Note: it applies the -All after the first hit, so that one doesn't receive increased damage from the nerf, but the remaining 5 hits do)
Impaling Hands - 200% damage, 4 turn 50% weapon damage DoT, 4 turn CD (Note: when I say weapon damage, I mean that added damage from stats doesn't increase the strength of the DoT, only the raw damage number on your weapon)
Eternity Ray - 500% damage with 100% crit chance, 39(!!) turn CD that carries over between battles(!!!)
On a side-note, you lose a charge every time you end your turn while in Umbral form, which includes using potions or trinkets, which kinda sucks.

So, my thoughts: I used it to beat both challenges easily on my first try, so that's good. It certainly has some strong moves, and once Penumbra is working, if it works how I think it should (+75% additive crit damage, so 175% would become 250%), it's going to be even stronger. But... Well, it's not as strong offensively as the likes of Ascendant, Ascended Chickencow or the other top-tier offensive classes, it's got long CDs on its hard-hitting moves (Seriously, 39 turns on Eternity Ray and it carries over?! That's just insane overkill when other classes can do more damage with skills that have <10-turn CDs >.<), and it also has pretty weak defenses due to very long CDs on all of its defensive moves, its shield being BPD (I honestly hate BPD shields to be blunt, being 100% useless against crits is an extreme downside compared to MPM), having no blind or -Boost skill, plus the fact that it punishes you quite a lot if you use the heal or shield reactively by removing all your charges. I just feel like it doesn't have enough damage to justify all the negatives; in that sense, it's very similar to Avatar of Time, which also has a massive damage combo but on a long CD and at the cost of core defensive skills that almost all other classes have, which is a shame because Avatar of Time is something I really like the aesthetic and theme of but I find myself never using it because it's really just not very effective a class (for a tier 3 anyway), when others can do even more damage without all the penalties. I'm not sure if I'd make it stronger offensively or defensively, give it more utility, or something else entirely, but I do think it needs something more to really shine. Maybe just a reduction in CDs in general would be enough, keeping its strength early on the same as it really doesn't need to be stronger there but buffing it for longer fights, and certainly either a drastic CD reduction or removing the carry-over for Eternity Ray is needed.

On the plus side, the multi is very strong, almost the same as the ACC multi which is high praise. I do agree the animation is very long against multiple enemies though, and would also prefer if it only payed once, though I'd rather it kept the amount of hits per enemy and they just happened very fast instead of reducing it to 1 hit each or something. The class is also very good at ending battles with normal enemies in one turn, it might just be the best farming class in that regard other than DmK, although it is slower animation-wise than RiftWalker and RageLord which I'd say are the other top contenders.

Aside from effectiveness, one thing that really stands out to me is the lack of things to do when you don't have shadow charges. If you've already used Shadow People, you basically only have Decay, Shade Spikes or Attack as you'd want to save the rest for when you need them. Decay has a decent CD and isn't really noticeably stronger than Attack anyway, so it basically becomes spamming Spikes and Attack until you've got charges, which doesn't feel very fun tbh. I'm not sure how I'd fix that though, because you definitely want all of the utility skills on the left side so you aren't stuck without them if you've got no charges. The only one really that I could see changing is Decay, so maybe switching the effects of Decay and Phantom Hit would feel better? Then you'd have 2 1-turn CD skills on the left to rotate between while building charges, or Attack if you need to restore MP, plus it'd give a quicker hard-hitting skill to use on enemies who aren't tanky enough to warrant the long animation and huge damage of Shadow People. That would also give the benefit of letting me use the fantastic Decay animation all the time, I seriously love that skill. :P

On that note, the aesthetic! I love every single thing about it. It's a beautiful class, I absolutely love the shadow effect on accessories, I love that it uses two of your weapon, I love all of the animations and artwork. I really have absolutely nothing bad to say about the appearance, it's just one of my favorite things in the game. You are a god Dove! I also really like the theme of the skills, the different forms and the use of shadow charges. It's like a cross between Ranger and Timekiller in terms of how the class plays, which is great because those are two fun and unique classes. Overall it's a really nice and fun class, but I do think it needs some tweaks here and there to make it really appealing, outside of the obvious visual appeal.

< Message edited by Sakurai the Cursed -- 11/5/2017 3:42:47 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 69
11/4/2017 0:55:14   
ArchNero
Member

Curious how high should SWoT's damage really be then?

Not my testing but these are the damage numbers of the past calendar classes.
Post #: 70
11/4/2017 1:27:50   
Zeldax
Member

@Sakurai the Cursed
Decay adds 50 Health to the monster, not -50.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 71
11/4/2017 1:34:31   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

Haha, woops, dunno what I was thinking when I wrote that. Fixed.

Edit: Oh, hmm. I just encountered an odd bug; I built up 2 charges so I could use Gear of Time then Eternity Ray, but after using Gear I went back to normal form and had 0 charges on my next turn... I'm not sure what happened, I didn't get stunned or anything, but I definitely lost a charge somehow.

Edit again: Just happened again. Built up 2 charges, used Gear and had 0. Seems to be a consistent thing.

< Message edited by Sakurai the Cursed -- 11/4/2017 1:52:22 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 72
11/4/2017 1:48:42   
Gabriel Castro
Member

I absolutely love the new Necro Paragon items! Kinda hoping we get a merge shop or an alternate DC version of them without the animations, like Dage showed us on his original tweet.

< Message edited by Gabriel Castro -- 11/4/2017 1:49:16 >
DF AQW  Post #: 73
11/4/2017 1:56:35   
ergotth
AQW Lore-titician


By the way gys, related to the new boss in the arena... where do I get Blood Moon tokens?
DF AQW  Post #: 74
11/4/2017 2:00:12   
Da Awesomancer
Member

Do the random challenge that's available for 500 gold. It randomly selects The Cauldron Groupies or Jack Crescent to fight, and drops a token upon victory.
DF AQW  Post #: 75
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