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RE: =DF= Design Notes November 3: Blood Moon Challenges, SWoT DA testing, and more!

 
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11/4/2017 19:59:55   
Bamzalot
Member

I have to agree with a lot of what Sakurai the Cursed said. The more I play with the class, the less often I want to be in Umbra form. It is generally more effective to go into Umbra form only to use Gear of Time, then back out in order to power up the free skills. The left side can regain mana, access healing, use a powerful multi, and it has access to the final that can be used each battle. I have also been making use of the cool down reducing shadow form hopping tactic that others have mentioned. I suppose that with this trick, the class no longer requires an official cool down skill. I don't know if this was intentional or not, but it does help make the class flow a little smoother when you can sacrifice a charge for some cool down.

I suppose I'll repeat what I said about the class not doing enough damage. And now with Sakurai the Cursed showing how the class competes against Ascendant, I really don't think the offensive power of the class is anywhere near where it should be. Shadow People and Eternity Ray are both powerful, but only Shadow People is a truly reliable way to inflict heavy damage without nerfing yourself for the rest of a quest. And while you are waiting for Shadow People to cool down, your offensive potential becomes quite limited due to it being dominated by filler skills. As Sakurai the Cursed said, the penalties of this class are currently outweighing the positives. Right now, it seems that Impaling Hands, Phantom Hit, and Decay are not providing enough to the class to makes those skills worth while.

After doing some more experimenting, I see that the two stuns are more useful than I originally gave them credit for. Along with the shadow hopping cool down, it actually becomes possible to get stuns inflicted fairly often. That is unless a foe has high immobility resistance, in which case they become risky filler skills. I still don't like how Chronic Lock requires a charge, even though it doesn't do anything that other stuns don't, but Doomsday Clock is adequate enough. (But if anyone else feels like it should be slightly better, I won't argue.) I still like the idea of Chronic Lock being buffed to attack multiple times, or target multiple targets. In this case, it would at least give me a reason to use a charge on it, rather than cool down reduction / Gear of Time, in order to get a more reliable stun.
Post #: 101
11/4/2017 22:28:00   
Baron Dante
Member

^Personally, I kinda like the idea of Chronic Lock being one of the very few unresistable stuns in the game to compensate for the need for a charge.
The idea would be that for an extra "price", you can actually have a reliable stun (Without having to go for the multi-hit path) against high Immobility enemies.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 102
11/4/2017 22:46:53   
Bamzalot
Member

Actually, that is a good idea. A simple but effective change. Even if it was just one hit, being able to complete ignore all immobility resistance sounds like a good way to make that skill worth while.
Post #: 103
11/4/2017 22:57:29   
Greyor_42
Member

and it wouldn't even be too overpowered, since it's a two turn stun. making it ignore immobility resist would actually be excellent balance, and give slightly more incentive to stay in umbral form for just a bit longer.
DF  Post #: 104
11/4/2017 22:58:53   
Greldracion
Member

@ Sakurai the Cursed

So with the current state of the class, what would be your recommended rotation of the skills with regards to boss fights. I'd like to crunch some numbers and I would appreciate some input on this matter, as you seem to be more knowledgeable in regards to class setups and rotations than I am.
AQ  Post #: 105
11/4/2017 23:05:01   
Hermitpriest
Member

I've found that Impaling Hands serves as a pretty decent DOT move after some set up, its nice that it always does the same amount of damage and that it can be reused right after it wears off, but I feel that it could do a little more damage since its the only DOT move the class gets. Same with Phantom Hit, it should deal a little more damage.

Other than that same issues that others have brought of before, Chronic Lock is currently somewhat useless in most situations, Penumbra isn't working, Sombra really shouldn't need to take all, for lack of a better term, shadow points, and Eternity Ray needs adjusted. All that aside I can't get enough of using this class, its really helps with grinding some quests.
DF  Post #: 106
11/4/2017 23:08:12   
Greldracion
Member

personally think impaling hands is fine, 450% damage unboosted and 655% boosted is actually really good for a move. You don't have to use it all the time, but I think it may increase the overall dps of the class if alternated with the Multi/shifting cooldown. That's why I asked if Sakurai can give me his rotation so I can compare with my theoretical rotation.

< Message edited by Greldracion -- 11/4/2017 23:09:01 >
AQ  Post #: 107
11/4/2017 23:19:49   
#2
Member

I think the class is wonderful, reminds me a lot of the shadow hunter ironically enough (though I never really did like the shadow hunter class though because of how difficult of a class it was to use.) The few things that I'm a little bothered by is that the class doesn't feel as flashy as the AoT which included unique sounds along with certain skills which made the class feel much more alive so I don't know if it would be possible at all if you could still implement some cool unique sounds for some of the skills of the SWoT or not but it would be awesome if you could, and also one more thing,
I'm not really a fan of the animation for drinking potions, I'd like it if it were more like the AoT again where it had an animation where it absorbed energy through its surroundings, now that would definitely make it more flashy. Again I'm aware that it's probably too late to implement these things into the class right now and I'm probably just asking for too much anyways right now I mean Tomix worked very long and hard on this class and I wouldn't want to return him to stressing over making more animations or sound overs for this class, all I'm saying is that it would make this class perfect for my tastes if this could happen.
Post #: 108
11/4/2017 23:23:22   
Hermitpriest
Member

@Greldracion

Sorry I should have been more specific, I meant that I wish the actual damage dealt over time dealt more.

< Message edited by Hermitpriest -- 11/4/2017 23:31:06 >
DF  Post #: 109
11/4/2017 23:27:44   
Greldracion
Member

Why though? 250% and 325% are pretty good damages for DoT's to do by themselves, so why should it need a buff?
AQ  Post #: 110
11/4/2017 23:35:10   
Hermitpriest
Member

Might just be my weapons then, since I get pretty poor DoT damage from the move even with my strongest weapons.
DF  Post #: 111
11/4/2017 23:42:41   
Greldracion
Member

What weapons you using with the class? Also keep in mind the DoT doesn't get stat modifiers, so it only does 50% of the weapon's damage.
AQ  Post #: 112
11/4/2017 23:46:53   
Enflame
Member

The Hidebehind mask really looks good with SwoT.
DF  Post #: 113
11/4/2017 23:54:29   
GammaCavy
Member

So I've been testing SWoT in the swordhaven quest Unbound, and in teh scuffle with Circe in the library, where everyother class goes into defensive stance, this one goes into umbral form. And then does not come out. The rest of the conversation is held with a pool of darkness on the floor, instead of a human-esk figure.
DF  Post #: 114
11/4/2017 23:59:05   
Hermitpriest
Member

@Greldracion

I've been using my Penultimate BLoT.
DF  Post #: 115
11/5/2017 0:08:00   
Greldracion
Member

Ah, gotcha, so the base damage of the dot would be 40-55 unboosted and 50-68 boosted by Gear of time. I can see why you'd think that's pretty weak.
AQ  Post #: 116
11/5/2017 0:16:19   
Hermitpriest
Member

To go off of what Enflame said about the hidebehind mask looking good with SWoT, if anyone has it I recommend the Xan Mask that you can currently get for free from the DA chest in Mogloween chapter 3, the Black flames look pretty cool with the armor.
DF  Post #: 117
11/5/2017 0:20:14   
Greyor_42
Member

@so for aesthetics, i find that the judgement wheel and the soulforged scythe that looks like it both fit the SWoT very well.
DF  Post #: 118
11/5/2017 0:22:03   
GammaCavy
Member

Xan mask and Atrea Dream wings look downright AWESOME together. Here's this strange and alien creature, with winglike shapes of utter void, things you can only call wings because they resemble them more than anything else, and flames for hair...Also, yes, the Judgement Wheel, the partial version from the Ravenloss/chaosweaver war, and the soulforged scythes all look good with it- but there's one tiny problem with the soulforged version. The left hand final attack, where teh two weapons line up? They aren't in perfect alignment. And since the soulforged ones are transparent, you can actually see that.

< Message edited by GammaCavy -- 11/5/2017 0:24:01 >
DF  Post #: 119
11/5/2017 0:26:22   
TimeKiller
Member

beat both challenges unfortunately I have to redo caldron cuz I beat them in random for the drop feelsbadman

*SWoT is insanely fun to play how much is this calender

**my gloom glaive actually looks good with an armor for like the first time ever lmao

< Message edited by TimeKiller -- 11/5/2017 0:29:32 >


_____________________________

DF AQW Epic  Post #: 120
11/5/2017 0:27:12   
ergotth
AQW Lore-titician




hm, random thoughs for what could improve SWoT:
-Have each shadow Charge boost your overall damage, maybe 5, 10% per Shadow Charge.

-Give a HoT to one of the Umbral skills, such as Phantom Hit or Penumbra so we have at least a small way to recover HP while the "eat shadows" is recharging or if we want ot keep it as the panic button.

-Have the multi be a simgle animation look with the enemies taking 2 or 3 hits as it plays.

-Remove the messages about the shadow Charges, it gets annoying seeing "the shadows swirl" or "the shadows grow darker" popping up every time, we get it, we are building shadow charges, we have one right above the attack button. Especialy if the bossfight have other kinds of text (Jack Crescent, Caitiff), it becomes a Whatsapp group discussion.

-I'm not sure many will like it, but I think the weapons can just stand still during the fight, it would reduce greatly the lag. The spinning is cool and all, but it's not practical. I was against removing the sand-like body in Avatar of Time, but I understood its reasons. Besides, I can only imagine (and actualy find it hilarious) how players would try to switch elements on clickable weapons like the Dragon Amulet Scythe while it spins mid-fight. Just give it a gentle float would be enough.

-Have Chains be more than just one hit. 1-hit Stuns are really annoying sometimes, especialy if this one costs a shadow charge, it better be SUPERIOR than the other stun. But I do agree on both being 2-turns only, we have 2 stuns after all. Either that or make it a "turn skip" like Chronomancer's Blink and Avatar of time "Orb of time". Make it a signature skill of the calendar classes, it's a flawless "stun" that definitely make these classes stand out from the others.

@2
Maybe have the potion animation be the same as the "Eat shadows" but with the healing sound?

@Shadowstar
Yup

< Message edited by ergotth -- 11/5/2017 0:38:55 >
DF AQW  Post #: 121
11/5/2017 0:31:05   
Hermitpriest
Member

@TimeKiller

Its $19.95 US not including shipping.
DF  Post #: 122
11/5/2017 0:40:27   
Greyor_42
Member

@ergotth

SWoT actually has 2 "turn-skip" skills that together also serve as a cooldown reduction skill(you can chain umbra and antumbra together to reduce the cooldowns on your skills by two turns, while ALSO letting you attack anyways this actually leads to a somewhat absurd loop you can pull off with the multi-hit, as you can refresh it and use it every turn, thus making it THE strongest multi, since it deals 175% weapon damage to all enemies with an effective cooldown of zero, AND it has a mana cost of only 15). and people actually came up with the idea that the chains should, instead of hitting multiple times, simply ignore immobility resist.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 11/5/2017 0:44:54 >
DF  Post #: 123
11/5/2017 0:41:46   
Greldracion
Member

@Ergotth I actually prefer if the multi hit remains as 4 hits, instead of decreasing the number of hits so it can have better synergy with penumbra and Gear. Nah, penumbra shouldn't have a light heal when it's used, because it would make the class too tanky and would devalue the risk/reward aspect of the move. In terms of the Boost Idea, I think it should only apply either with using Antumbra, or when using Umbra to give you a buff for those skills. it could work with Antumbra because you are giving up shadow charges, so you are risking not being able to use shadow skills to increase the damage of the (somewhat) inferior normal skills. maybe then the boost could be 10% per unused charge? I also agree with a couple of people here that Decay and Phantom hit might be better to be switched, since Decay has a somewhat powerful effect, it would do better to use a shadow charge in that sort of scenario. If this can't be accomplished, then I agree that Phantom Hit should receive a little buff, since an extra 70-75% damage (an extra half of a normal attack) doesn't really seem worth using compared to the myriad of other useful skills, though I wouldn't mind if the CD was increased by a turn because of the extra damage.

< Message edited by Greldracion -- 11/5/2017 0:47:32 >
AQ  Post #: 124
11/5/2017 0:43:31   
TimeKiller
Member

I love the multi skill because ive been showing my BoA for the challenge battles and I'm getting 1-3 heal procs per multivs the sisters
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 125
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