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Should Dragonfable continue calendar classes?

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11/6/2017 11:19:59   
Question Mark?

Given Dragonfable's increasingly small staff, and the enormous time commitment required to animate and code a new class, would it be reasonable for Dragonfable to switch over to doing special weapons or items for the calendar package, like AQ Classic does?

I think that would be reasonable, as it would make it possible for the team to devote time to story-based classes, rather than having that time used for an (admittedly AWESOME) class that only a few people will ever get to use.

What do you think?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 1
11/6/2017 11:29:46   

So I see where you're coming from, but I want to offer a rebuttal: What if Calendars (not the classes but the physical calendars themselves) are required by AE? Because if they are, then would people who play DF buy them without the class? I love SWoT, but it's extremely ridiculous that an in-game bonus item came out almost a year after the accompanying item went on sale. If AE is going to require the calendars be sold, and then require an in-game item for each, then they should help DF so a debacle like this doesn't happen again.
DF  Post #: 2
11/6/2017 11:54:21   

@Htown1001: Well, the DF playerbase is a very small part of the total AE playerbase. So even if ending calendar classes in DF would make a lot less DF people stop buying it, the total sales probably wouldn't drop that much.
DF  Post #: 3
11/6/2017 12:02:13   
G Man

Yes and no.

Yes simply because it's likely a requirement, and there's nothing we can do about it.

No because the staff are already abysmally small, and already have a lot on their plates, and having to make classes only make it worse.

But If they are required, then surely SOMEONE can spare some time to help Tomix/Dove and Verlyrus.
They know FULL WELL that DF has very little staff, so they should be able to help shoulder the burden they created.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 4
11/6/2017 12:25:57   

I for one believe that it may be time to switch to specialized items rather than full classes. At least until DF has a larger team to work with. I, and many others, always adore these Chrono classes, but they are something that not all players will have access to and they don't drastically affect the game itself. I think the real question to ask is whether or not DF needs the Chrono classes, or does AE need the Chrono classes? It has become a sort of yearly tradition at this point to have classes released for each calendar, but not all of AE games follow that rule. If DF is expected to uphold the yearly standards of a class by the company, then there isn't very much room for argument.

For 2018, if we could get a trinket, artifact, special weapon, or maybe even a full cape/helm/weapon set related to the calendar theme, that would be much easier on the team and still give calendar owners something cool and unique. An issue with that plan is that expectations would be pretty high for the power level of this items in order to compensate for a class. However, I am 100% certain that making the art and balancing a set of limited items wouldn't be nearly as hard as animating and coding a full class.

Another important thing to consider about dropping calendar classes is that more progress could be made for in-game classes. Like the Chaos Weaver and Flesh Weaver that we have been patiently waiting for. That, along with high quality weekly releases, should be of greater importance than classes that only a percentage of players will ever have access to.
Post #: 5
11/6/2017 14:21:28   

i buy the calendars entirely for the DF class, if there is no longer a class id no longer spend the money, simple as that, i know its time intensive, but its also a rather expensive investment on my end, im paying 20$ (more counting shipping) for a class.

i can understand they are a small team now, very depressing considering DF is my top AE game, seeing the team shrink makes me sad even as we still get content every week, i cant imagine how overworked tomix and verly must be....

i hope they dont cut the df calendar classes, but it wouldnt surprise me if it happened, id be very sad to see them end though, itd be the proverbial writing on the wall for the end of DF if they couldnt keep it up, every other game that has lost their calendar installments died not long after

< Message edited by snakehulk21220 -- 11/6/2017 14:22:58 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 6
11/6/2017 14:49:46   
Dog food

Some kind of top tier powerful gear sounds better than a class- I think most people who afford these calenders will get DMK at some point if they don't have it already, which tops every class
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
11/6/2017 15:03:42   
Da Awesomancer

I'm fairly certain most people get calendar classes for the different gameplay styles and strategies, not because they're super powerful. Some ubercharged weapon or armor piece would just be boring.

< Message edited by Da Awesomancer -- 11/6/2017 15:04:03 >
DF AQW  Post #: 8
11/6/2017 15:42:40   

The only Artix Entertainment game I play is Dragonfable. I own almost all the calendar classes and I also own all three the HeroPoint classes. To be fair I don't think I would've spend all this money, if it didn't include these classes.

I do know that Dragonfable compared to some other Artix Games has less classes, this prolly because there is a lot more to animate and code with DF classes given their larger skillsets. Whenever a class comes out it keeps me entertained for a VERY long time, I don't think I would be that entertained by a strong weapon or any other item.

I have to admit that it was horrible waiting for the SWoT, there were even times I was doubting whether or not the staff actually was putting any effort in making it. I would find it ok if in 2018 the old classes get repeated again. So every year we at least know what to expect. By doing this the devs can also spend a little time on the old class of that year to look if it needs improvement or not.

Artifacts are also interesting items, however for what class would the Artifacts be? There are many calendar classes. Coming with an Artifact for the class that I do not own is something I'm not looking forward to.
Post #: 9
11/6/2017 15:55:39   


There are two issues with doing artifacts for the calendars, because artifacts by design are an item that synergise with one of the classes to change it in some way, and aside from dragonlord, each class only gets ONE artifact(shadow base gets the shadowheart bracer, base gets the cloak scrap, SW and eventualy MSW get's baltael's aventail). So the issues lie in what kind of artifact the calendar would give, and what class it would go to.

Issue 1.) If it's an artifact for a calendar class, it will be useless for anyone who hasn't bought said calendar class, thus giving that person less of an incentive to buy said calendar. This means that a year where a calendar class gets an artifact from a calendar, the number of DF players who buy the calendar will theoretically DECREASE, as only the people who have said class would have any incentive to buy the calendar. this would also give AE less incentive to make something for DF next calendar.

Issue 2.) If it's NOT for a calendar class, this leads to two more problems. Which class would get it, and the fact that that class' artifact has now been used up on a rare that more people than not can't get. This is an issue because, as a whole, artifacts are a readily available thing for anybody, assuming they have a dragon amulet, and/or dragon coins. even artifacts for classes that we can't get anymore, like the shadow base class.


It has already been stated that calendar classes will NOT be getting re-releases of any kind. We had an entire 4-and-a-half thread long argument over whether or not they should, and higher ups said no, ending it there.
DF  Post #: 10
11/6/2017 16:29:51   

@ Greyor_42 I was just throwing out a suggestion with the artifact. I actually don't expect an alternative to be an artifact for the exact reasons that you listed, but it is still a possibility. If the alternative did end up being an artifact, I figured it would have to go towards a class that everyone would have immediate access to. So basically the base classes. Although you mention that each class can only have one artifact, and if that still holds true, then the Cloak Scrap would interfere with my idea.

This all being said, I would MUCH rather see an actual class being released. I am suggesting these alternatives because I understand how tedious it is for the team to work on the classes, and for the players waiting until they are done. I also understand that dropping the Chrono classes would hurt the calendar sales from DF players, and that would affect the whole company as a result. There really is no convenient solution to this problem.

Suggestion removed. Please do not post suggestions in DFGD, as they are not allowed by the rules. ~Karika

< Message edited by Karika -- 11/6/2017 22:29:10 >
Post #: 11
11/6/2017 19:51:26   

Maybe instead of coming up with new classes every year for the calender, they can maybe can make a previous class available again? Like count the SwoT as last and this year thing and the following year, give out Avatar of Time. That way if they do feel the need to tweak it, they already have something to work off of. Also Players who just barely joined DF can have a chance to get a classic calendar armor. ^_^
DF  Post #: 12
11/6/2017 20:09:39   
Jet Silver

I wouldn't mind if the calendars just stopped being a thing at some point honestly. Based on Heromart still having the last 2 in stock I wouldn't be surprised if they've lost their charm to the general playerbase anyhow.

Shadowwalker of Time is cool, but I think it's time to lighten the load on Tomix and let more effort go into the classes that don't require some sold once-a-year item on Heromart. Or go back to making reskins of previous calendar/non-calendar classes, like Chronocorruptor or SnugglePanda.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 13
11/6/2017 20:50:20   
Silver Sky Magician

To lighten the workload, maybe the new calendar classes could be hybrid classes - literally just combining skills from different classes to make a new skillset with existing skills. Plus the art could even be an amalgamation of different classes as well. Then the main issue would just be balance.
Epic  Post #: 14
11/6/2017 22:55:51   

@silver that sounds interesting but every class has completely unique animations throwing them together just wouldn't look very good imo there would be very little synergy between the art and the animations and the skillset as a whole, id much rather see the team discontinue calendar classes then that

< Message edited by TimeKiller -- 11/6/2017 22:58:54 >


DF AQW Epic  Post #: 15
11/6/2017 22:59:05   

@silver sky magician

there's already a quest that was made explaining why they'll never do something like that in true DF fashion.
DF  Post #: 16
11/7/2017 6:45:37   
Fire alandry

I think that the biggest problem is that Tomix is too perfectionist;)
Since Time Killer, almost every calendar class becomes the most beautiful class in the game when it's out, and that means a lot of effort and time.

I would be happy if there will be new classes each year, but at about Chronomancer level of art- good, but not OMG I MUST HAVE IT NOW!!! Like AoT or SWoT...

Anyway, I must point on another problem with the calendars- except the high shipping cost, there are people who use different calendar... I, for example, use a much more complicated one; so even if I could buy one, I have no reason to do it.

I love the calendar classes, but it's just too much time wasted on something which not everyone can use.
DF  Post #: 17
11/7/2017 9:07:44   

^I agree with pretty much everything Alandry said above.

~original: @Fire alandry
I think that the biggest problem is that Tomix is too perfectionist;)

I was thinking the same thing. Tomix has said before that (to rephrase) the idea of releasing incomplete or sub-standard content sits uncomfortably with him.

My opinion on this is probably already known; I do not believe the calendar classes are a productive use of the developers' time.
This year, the release schedule was delayed significantly by the development of the calendar class; while it would likely have already been delayed due to the loss of Geo, additional delays are not something we should welcome, for the sake of the game's primary audience.

Classes in Dragonfable are the most demanding and complicated of all AE games. Offering a class in AQW is insignificant by comparison; as far as I am aware, AQW can produce classes for consecutive releases. Thus it seems odd that 'a class in every game' should demand so much more of the developers of their legacy game than their main game.

The calendar is a limited stock item; there are only a set number of them. If this method of manufactured rarity is supposed to generate greater profits, it's clearly failing if some are still in stock. Additionally, this type of business model applies more to AQW's younger demographic than DF's older, less impulsive one.

In a few places, I've seen the argument that ceasing the creation of calendar classes leads to the death of an AE game. This is a confusion of cause and effect; once a calendar class becomes too difficult for staff to manage, it's generally an indication that the game is already dying. I suggest that pulling out of the calendar classes earlier than the other games will give Dragonfable a more significant chance of continuing development; having more non-filler releases is far preferable in terms of popularity than a single class locked behind a paywall.


~original @Htown1001
I want to offer a rebuttal: What if Calendars (not the classes but the physical calendars themselves) are required by AE?

Heromart item profits mainly contribute to Heromart. This is a very circular business model if the actual content being paid for is provided from the games; the development staff are making the calendars sellable, but all the profits go to making more merchandise. But it's the digital items that people are paying for.

I do not see why the majority of players should have a delayed release schedule for the sake of a single class that said majority of players do not even have the option of obtaining (due to its limited stock). Every qualitative source I'm aware of has indicated that highly priced goods will sell better if they're distributed over a longer time period; people will not typically jump at an impulse buy that could create problems in their financing.

In a nutshell, the delays to the releases are not worth selling a calendar for another department. If the calendar is truly valuable, it should be able to sell itself.
DF MQ  Post #: 18
11/7/2017 16:18:05   

They should just let you have one of the older classes when you buy the new calendar so they don't have to keep making new calendar classes if they don't have time to.
Post #: 19
11/7/2017 16:34:35   




It has already been stated that calendar classes will NOT be getting re-releases of any kind. We had an entire 4-and-a-half thread long argument over whether or not they should, and higher ups said no, ending it there.
DF  Post #: 20
11/7/2017 17:06:37   

I guess I'll just have to get them some other way then.
Post #: 21
11/7/2017 18:50:10   
Meloette Wells

Do note there have been talk of selling future calendar classes as in-game items, assumingly starting with SWoT. (Mind you, at the full price of the calendar, itself.) So if this plan is still intended then the "only a section of the player base will have it" argument falls a bit flat, but the paywall point still stands.

Not to say that people that are still playing Dragonfable, and already have dragonlord, tend to be more likely/willing to pay for another in-game purchase.
Not everyone mind you, because the whole "I brought this membership so I can play/experience the full game." Not to mention, the more-likely thing is mainly true for people that are seeking to continuously support DF's development. Something akin to having a monthly pateron payment, or something... Not that DF can actually go the pateron route due to legality reasons.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 22
11/7/2017 20:00:10   


there is no other way to get them.

DF  Post #: 23
11/8/2017 11:32:44   
Vanilla Icecream

I agree with the others and think this calendar tradition is unfair to the DF team and the players, too. The team already has a lot of work on their hands; they don't need more, and the time spent on the classes means less time spent on the contents.
The reason I hesitate to buy the calendar is that I won't be using the bonus classes offered in other games, nor will I be actively using the calendar itself. I feel like I'd be spending more money than the use I would get out of it. I won't buy a box of cereals that I don't like just because of the toy it comes with.
Ironically, I'd buy the class if it were equally priced to the calendar but sold only as a class, like DmK. I'd be using the full worth of the money I spent. But buying the class as a bonus to the calendar feels rather excessive.
DF  Post #: 24
11/8/2017 17:14:22   

I would love for DF not to have anything to do with the calendars anymore. As long as it doesn't mean that the game will shortly after become unsupported. it kinda sucks that a lot of effort goes into them instead of new quests and storylines

Post edited. Check your inbox. ~Karika

< Message edited by Karika -- 11/8/2017 17:50:52 >
Post #: 25
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