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RE: =DF= Icebound Revenant Armor Discussion Thread

 
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4/27/2018 0:33:25   
Roc
Member

@Luckyjazzt, no, it is banned.

@Greyor_42, These are the plain single hit/slash animations I mean:
Frigid Cold
Long Winter
Icebound Fury
Razor Ice
Icy Grip
Revenant's Curse
Chains of Ice
Icy Touch
Frost Strike
Frigid Chill

quote:

Also, people keep saying that IBR re-uses its basic attack animation for most of its skills, and... that's not true at all. Only like, 3 or 4 of its skills, including the basic attack, have that animation. Now, the weird thing is, I never see this (highly exaggerated)complaint for DeathKnight, which uses the exact same animations as IBR on its equivalent of the skills.

Only 4 skills the ones really different:
Howling Talons of Ice
Fortitude of Frost (kinda weird why it seems a weapon empowerment)
Will of the Fallen
Reaver's Desire

< Message edited by Roc -- 4/27/2018 0:40:22 >
Post #: 26
4/27/2018 2:23:52   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member

In any case, IBR also breaks the Sciuridaehotep+Witness Challenge--you can make Sciuridaehotep do 0 damage on the nuke turn with one skill alone--that doesn't make it a challenge anymore. that's why it's banned from the Primordials challenge.
DF  Post #: 27
4/27/2018 2:31:00   
Greyor_42
Member

^

quote:

@Greyor_42, These are the plain single hit/slash animations I mean:
Frigid Cold
Long Winter
Icebound Fury
Razor Ice
Icy Grip
Revenant's Curse
Chains of Ice
Icy Touch
Frost Strike
Frigid Chill


"Plain single hit/slash animation" doesn't mean "same animation", though. And the animations are anything but "plain", as BluuHorse stated.

Yes, animations are re-used. But, like I said, it's not the same single animation that gets re-used on the majority of skills, which is what the complaint is constantly stated to be:

quote:

Almost everything is just basic attack.


No. 3-4 things are "basic" attack. Everything else is other animations. Note I didn't say solely unique animations, either. Also, IBR and DK aren't the only classes that have recycled animations, yet, I must stress, IBR is literally the only class in the entire game that gets complaints about animations getting recycled.

quote:

Also, DK is the first armor to have those animation which doesn't deserve a "lame" and re-skin complaint since that what makes it originally a DK.


It being the first doesn't "excuse" it from complaints on animations it shares with another class. Also, nobody complains about IBR being a "re-skin" of DK. The complaint is always made in a void scenario where DK doesn't exist as a comparison, which only serves to invalidate these complaints to a degree.

quote:

I understand IBR to be banned in Uthuluc's solo fight since it takes the "challenge" but not on the Trio of Uthuluc, Squirrel, and the Deer since it doesn't take away the "challenge" of the Squirrel and Deer.


Well, one of the other skills renders the squirrel's nuke useless(makes all damage of the next attack 0, and the squirrel gives you a 5-turn warning before it uses the nuke, so you know exactly when to use the move), making it a fight where you just change your weapon every turn, and you win. And no, the squirrel wouldn't survive long enough to use the nuke a second time. And remember, Long Winter grows stronger with each use, capping at the 5th, which you'll probably have reached by the time you're fighting the second stage of the squirrel. IBR is basically a "you win the primordials for free" class, to an almost equal degree to DmK V1.

EDIT: Ninja'd by a horse. That's definitely a new one for me......
DF  Post #: 28
4/27/2018 3:26:24   
Roc
Member

@Greyor_42 and BlueHorse, alright I understand now why it should be banned for that challenge. Thanks for the explanation.

Also, I am sticking to my opinion that the skill effects are good but most of the animation is unpleasant. I would suggest a later animation update for that if possible.
Post #: 29
4/27/2018 7:18:00   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member

Meh. I donít think an animation ďupdateĒ would be useful. Literally just reskinning Aegis (Bk 3)ís animations on some skills would be enough. Just think of
  • Aegisí Shield used over IBRís Fortitude of Frost.
  • Aegisí Domain of Ice used over IBRís Long Winter
  • Aegisí Frozen Serpent used over IBRís Icy Touch
  • Aegisí Limit Break used over IBRís Icy Grip (but on the enemy)
  • Aegisí Ice Blade Storm used over IBRís Frigid Cold

Iím sure that if they have the time and will to do it, the devs may pull something intuitive like tis, howeverópriorities. Iím anxious for this yearís Epoch, because once it is done, anims will be reused in future years and we can get better releases+Fleshweaver next year, and eventually, once the Void Ship Crewís buttons are also active, then they may get to this, but for now, we have to wait...

Darn, if only we had more staff...

Edit: And yes, Horses, especially Blue ones in the plane of Ice can be excellent ninjas.
DF  Post #: 30
4/27/2018 7:33:15   
Roc
Member

^ Good idea, I like that. Also, that will take less effort since it's recycled but still worth it!
Post #: 31
4/27/2018 8:04:05   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member

Well, they had time to reskin bacon over the SW, so maybe, just maybe, if they give us a suggestion thread we could appeal for this?

But anyway, the whole Sciuridaehotep thing was unplanned, so the players didnít think of it then, but now that we do, itís quite obvious as to why, wether or not IBR was insane against Uthuluc or not, it still wouldíve been banned. In any case, the Rangerís Cripple does reduce BtH by 100, but I beleive that the move is damage-type locked (to Melee, I think), so thatís how it all balances out.

In any case, Howling Talons of Ice has to be the best looking multi skill in the entire game, period. Just... look at that marvel...
DF  Post #: 32
4/27/2018 13:13:54   
dragon_master
Member

But shouldn't be banned.
It is in a way,prohibiting access to something people paid money for.
DF  Post #: 33
4/27/2018 15:14:20   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member

IBR makes Simulacrum of Uthuluc (the hardest part of the battle) a cakewalk by making it weak to Ice. Now, with Siofra this isnít a problem because whatever class you use, provided you have said weapons, you can still easily beat the challenge because all there is to that fight is solely just changing your element. However, the Simulacrum of Uthuluc is a much more complex egg to crack, in that it isnít just a ďchange your weapon a bunch of times and you have this oversized pimple in the bagĒ type monster, it is a monster that requires both luck and skill to beat. IBR just takes the challenge away from the fight, which it doesnít for Siofra.

Also, as with the Sciuridaehotep challenge, it just makes Sciuridaehotep do no damage with its immensely powerful nuke that is supposed to obliterate you, and that does not make it a challenge either, because you just bypass its mechanic, too.

Although, yes, I do agree that the people who have only IBR may feel a bit bad that they canít use their real-life money for the challenge, think of the people who canít use their (supposedly only DC armor) Ancient Exosuit to beat Big&Small, for instance (because it isnít an offensive class, itís very defensive), and Big&Small doesnít even get broken by the armor, so yeah. Banning IBR is very justified. Similarly, DmKV2 is a great armor, that you pay for, but it still cannot beat Big&Small because of it having a long blind and no shield. These could be called unfair in their own right, but they arenít, because they... just arenít, or canít be. Same for IBR but the restrictions are just more heavy.

Edit: wow, sorry if I sound rude or anything, that isnít my intention at all... ~just your little brony Blue colored Horse signing into a forum page.

< Message edited by BluuHorseOfficial -- 4/27/2018 15:16:10 >
DF  Post #: 34
4/27/2018 16:59:48   
Luckyjazzt
Member

These challenges are meant to be some of the hardest bosses in the game, and there are a lot of classes, some of which are able to completely side step what makes a boss hard. It makes sense why some classes are banned. IBR against Uthuluc would completely remove any difficulty from it.
DF  Post #: 35
4/27/2018 19:14:02   
Kurtz96
Member

quote:

But shouldn't be banned.
It is in a way,prohibiting access to something people paid money for.


Just like DmK V1, IBR can completely ignore the point of some of the challenges. It is banned thus for the same reason Version 1 life carve.

Edit: Ninja'd
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 36
4/28/2018 6:50:45   
dragon_master
Member

Why bring the DMK V1?
That thing is broken and shouldn't even be talked about.

Profanity removed. Profanity, including self-censoring, is not allowed on the forums. For more information, see the Comprehensive Forum Rules > Posting Behavior. ~Occavatra

< Message edited by Occavatra -- 4/28/2018 7:45:19 >
DF  Post #: 37
4/28/2018 11:14:42   
Kurtz96
Member

quote:

Why bring the DMK V1?
That thing is broken and shouldn't even be talked about.


I brought it up because like IBR, they both invalidate certain fights. Like against Soifra, IBR makes that gimmick useless just like life carve. Sure life carve is faster, but both guarantee victory. Thus, for future challenges that involve an enemy that has a gimmick like Soifra, IBR is banned.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 38
5/5/2018 9:15:53   
Sun Wukong
Member

I'll move it here since my thread is closed.

Why is it not okay if some class faces a challenge with "ease". It's part of the challenge to know your enemy and ways to beat them. But if IBR can do it with ease why's that a problem? That means you know how to beat that challenge in an "easy" way. Also, by placing a ban pop-up of DmK V1 and IBR makes it obvious that IBV can handle it easily (I exclue DmK V1 since it's obvious that is should be banned and it's the only class should be).

Why not let us explore or find out what class can handle it easily? Or let us enjoy facing that challenge with the class we want. I know that a challenge is supposed to be hard but by finding a way easy or not, is part of one's mind skills.

This class has good skills and can we only test its mettle with story line and basic/boss fights? How about challenges? IBV is in tier 3 along with many other class. If it's stronger then why not put it in tier 3.5 or 4 or sell it in a Dragon Coin package like DmK since it's superior among others.

Perhaps more people will buy Dragon Coins and support DF (like me supposed to be) if they can use IBR knowing that it makes some challenges "easier", and for other reasons they enjoy the class, which is a fair trade: buy and satisfy.

Some people are discouraged of this class animation (but I am fine with those even if it's like that as long as I can have full access anywhere with this class) and this Ban will likely discourage them more.
Post #: 39
5/5/2018 12:59:13   
Baron Dante
Member

^So, this is something that I believe has been talked about with Verly. I could be wrong on some of these points, so if someone has knowledge on that, feel free to correct me here.

So, various classes are now being banned from challenges if they can bypass the mechanics of the battle. That's fair game, really. It's just unfortunate that IBR has a specific skill that can bypass elemental resistance-related mechanics.

Now, we have the dragons, that are completely made into not a challenge by DragonSlayer. According to Verly when the three fights were released, he kinda forgot that, but he'd allow this because it's the first challenge, it's not that hard, basically. Of course, the Triple Trouble fight was made with this in mind, where you probably need DS to win (Not true, but at least it's still somewhat challenging even as a DS). After that, no Inn fight has had monsters with any kind abusable triggers. (They're all stuff like Golems and ???, that nothing triggers against)

Siofra is an interesting one, since IBR again bypasses the mechanic. I think it was last night Verlyrus talked about that one one of the Discords. Something to the effect that "the challenge has been around for so long that he doesn't feel there's need to change that at that point", which indicates that if Siofra was released today, IBR would in fact be on the banlist.

In regards to these two fights, I believe it was sometime after these two fights that Verly noted that any challenges ould be subject to classes banned if he thought it was necessary.

Now, I do have a small gripe with it being banned in regards to the new challenge. Due to how it's just all resistance slowly increasing, and by the current scaling, will cap at 50 on the 1000th round, I don't think IBR would be broken or all that bypassy in this fight. There are other classes that can lower resistances, and some are probably even more effective at that than IBR.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 40
5/5/2018 14:18:48   
  Verlyrus
DragonFable Boxcat


The IBR ban on the most recent challenge was made before I reduced the All resist scaling rate. I will re-assess the situation on Monday. Thank you all for your feedback.
EDIT: Took a look today. IBR ban from the Endless Invasion has been lifted.

< Message edited by Verlyrus -- 5/5/2018 18:09:58 >
AQ MQ  Post #: 41
5/5/2018 20:57:38   
Sun Wukong
Member

@Baron Dante
quote:

Now, I do have a small gripe with it being banned in regards to the new challenge. Due to how it's just all resistance slowly increasing, and by the current scaling, will cap at 50 on the 1000th round, I don't think IBR would be broken or all that bypassy in this fight. There are other classes that can lower resistances, and some are probably even more effective at that than IBR.

True, that's one of my points.

@Verlyrus
Thanks for that, and sorry if you might find my post aggressive but my intention is not. I value your effort and I support this game.
Post #: 42
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