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RE: Defender Medal Craziness

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11/30/2017 12:47:02   

@LouisCyphere I'm saying given the circumstances that effort is too much now. If they are going to reduce the amount of wars, they should reduce the amount of medals needed.

Of course they cost too much because EUD is the best defensive trinket with a +5 All resist.
Nothing should cost "too much". That's the meaning of that statement. It should cost a fair amount but not "too much".

Post edited. Check your inbox. ~Karika

< Message edited by Karika -- 11/30/2017 20:29:36 >
Post #: 26
11/30/2017 12:51:57   

Since we have few wars, that's where you should put your effort into it.
And you're not obliged to max upgrade EUD.
Even if your build is not optimal, you can still beat the content.
Not having a max upgrade EUD is not going to hinder your gameplay.

Reducing the cost would just undermine previous effort of EUD and Defender cannon holders.

sure at 300 DMs, it won't matter. but if someone is proposing to cut the required total DMs for EUD by half. Now, that's absurd.

Post edited to remove reference to a deleted comment. ~Karika

< Message edited by Karika -- 11/30/2017 20:30:26 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 27
11/30/2017 12:54:08   
The ErosionSeeker


Here's the problem: lowering the medal cost would be unfair to people who farmed for the items to meet the old costs.

That literally doesn't matter.
I have a level 70 Dragon War Wolf item that cost 700 DMs, should I be mad that those 700 DMs that could have made my next EUD upgrade are now locked in a outclassed item?

Back around the Monkee war, they reduced DM costs for most of the items, I remember the first few tiers of upgrades falling from 40 down to 20 and then ramping up very slowly.
Is it unfair that people who spent time getting items that were good in the past are now beaten by new items?
Is it unfair that the catapult even exists, because that rips up the amount of time that it takes as compared to foot waves?

I've "lost" maybe another 300 DMs thanks to the Defender accessory cost reduction, and I got over it, because it's not actually a big deal.
DF AQW  Post #: 28
11/30/2017 13:06:44   

It's not fair to the people who paid the 500 DM price.
You don't need a fully upgraded EUD to beat the game.
You're not required to fully upgrade EUD.

This is so ignorant and completely ignores the way the game is now. It's game balance, simple as that. Less chance to get something, lower prices on items. You don't lower one thing and not the other. I'm sure if they did fix this, people wouldn't come on the forums crying about how it's not fair. My initial pitch was far too low, I agree. However, half makes perfect sense. Half the wars, half the price.

< Message edited by NarcissisticLee -- 11/30/2017 13:09:30 >
Post #: 29
11/30/2017 13:20:54   

@LouisCyphere Tell me the situations where it's necessary for you to even play DF. It's not a matter of necessary, it was a request based on an observation of DF's current circumstances. No one is complaining, I'm simply pointing out discrepancies in the game that could use a little balancing.

< Message edited by NarcissisticLee -- 11/30/2017 14:10:30 >
Post #: 30
11/30/2017 13:22:29   
Ace Woodlink


It's game balance, simple as that.

And that's where you've lost the argument.

Trinkets aren't about balance. They're something to give you an edge, to have a cool animation, to give some extra stats, to be usable no matter what your class is, to have extreme differences between trinkets. If you're looking for balance, trinkets are not the place to be looking.
MQ  Post #: 31
11/30/2017 13:30:26   
Lv 1000

EUD is a defender's metal item, all of these items require that you farm DMs and quite a lot of them. So you want to reduce the cost of all DM items? These items are meant as end game grinds and reward the player for obtaining them as they have relatively good stats and/or cool effects. They are designed and cost the amounts that they do by design. You don't have to have EVERY single item in the game to be relevant.

Additionally you paid for the base level version of EUD, you DID NOT pay for the upgrades, these are independent of the base level version. If the upgrades WERE meant to be included in the cost there would be an upgrade shop at the B.M. Moglin (ya know like all the other package items do :wink:).
Post #: 32
11/30/2017 13:51:25   

@Ace Woodlink Trinkets are totally about balance. If they weren't, EUD would have a +100 All Resist not 5. Inert Mana Gem would have something other than a moderate mana buff and a very small STR/DEX/INT buff. And so on.

@Lv 1000 I'm well aware what they require. They can be end game without being over the top. This has nothing to do with being relevant. I know I paid for the base EUD, never disputed that. What are you even talking about?

Post edited. Check your inbox. ~Karika

< Message edited by Karika -- 11/30/2017 20:32:33 >
Post #: 33
11/30/2017 13:55:02   
Lv 1000

Then what's the problem? EUD is a powerful trinket and it costs an appropriate number of DMs to upgrade. I don't get why it should be changed other than certain people don't want to spend the time to farm for the upgrades.
Post #: 34
11/30/2017 14:15:13   
Lv 1000

I mean, you can just farm wars and easily get 2-3 upgrades per war (at 500 DMs each) and get some upgrades before flash dies OR you could just no life wars and get it all done in one war. Hard work is rewarded, enough said.

Post edited to remove reference to a deleted post. ~Karika

< Message edited by Karika -- 11/30/2017 20:43:47 >
Post #: 35
11/30/2017 18:02:19   

Typically I recommend you assume that everyone who comments has read the entirety of the thread. When forming a coherent argument or explanation it is generally required to restate some aspects for context.

Unlike with... other AE games, content that must be grinded (ground?) for does not actually lock you out of any quests, developments, or battles. At worst it prevents you from applying strategies that the youtubers, such as Baron Dante or TheRuinedShadow may apply; but there are many other factors that do that already.

The reduced number of wars, and therefore increased difficulty of obtaining defender's medals, is an issue that's been raised in the past; I suspect this is why the moderators have allowed this discussion hence far. I believe the initial intention of defender's medals was that they were the third type of currency in the game; not as versatile as DCs, but much better in terms of equipment.

Elemental Unity, and the Defender's Cannon, are intended for people who really get into wars. I consider them a reward for the investment of time the players put in; however, they are quite a small one at that, so I don't really consider Elemental Unity or the Defender's Cannon a justifiable incentive for that much grinding.
They are not an incentive in and of themselves; instead, players who enjoy the wars for other, arguably better reasons receive them as a perk. Storyline players or general players have our own stuff; summon gems are powerful enough for my needs.

The issue of having fewer wars is notable, though.
DF MQ  Post #: 36
11/30/2017 19:43:03   

I honestly do not see what the big deal is. You're acting as if a fully upgraded EUD is some sort of end-all be-all trinket that you have to get. It's just a little bonus item that provides a small perk to those who are super dedicated to participating in wars. It's not that different from getting a badge. You're not going to have a terrible time with the game just because you don't have it. If it's because, "I paid money for this item, so I deserve to have the best version of it", you were never promised to be given that when you bought it. If it's because, "Game balance; Simple as that", like I said, it's not really any different than a badge. It means, "Hey, this player seriously contributed a lot to helping the community with the wars we release. Good for them." It wouldn't mean nearly as much if it was easy/quick to get. It's just a trophy for warmongers, nothing more, nothing less. I do agree that it wouldn't be so bad if we had more wars, but outside of that, it's not the end of the world if only the most war-happy players can get a fully-upgraded EUD. If you want an item fairly similar to it without spending that much time to get it, just go to Ash in B1, go to the Wanderland storyline and play, "Questions" (Really easy/fast quest, btw), and if you're lucky, you'll pick up NSTB. It doesn't do damage or provide any decent stats, but it does take away -50 BTH for a few turns, and it has a very low cooldown (Which arguably makes it more useful, IMO). Otherwise, if you absolutely *HAVE* to get a maxed-out EUD, just play FOO a few times a day, and you'll probably get it in, say, roughly 3 years at most. Or wait until the next wars come out and participate in them when they're released. Either way works.

< Message edited by andybaum005 -- 11/30/2017 20:08:40 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 37
11/30/2017 20:25:56   
Level 1 Laughing Tog

After some deliberation, we have decided this thread will remain locked. Suggestions, including game balance suggestions, are not allowed in DFGD per the rules:


On Suggestions:

Do not make suggestion threads in DFGD. Only DF Game Staff or Forum Staff are allowed to make suggestion threads in the forum. We know you have cool and creative ideas on what to add to the game of DF and we want to hear them in a structured way. So, whenever they wish, DF Game Staff (and occasionally Forum Staff) will make official suggestion threads or suggestion contest threads where you can post detailed ideas for a specific item/quest/monster/NPC to add to the game. These official threads will be for posting suggestions/contest entries only.
The DF Game Staff and Forum Staff may make an official suggestion/contest discussion thread, along with the contest/suggestion thread, as a place for forumers to discuss the thread entries and get feedback on ways to improve their suggestion/entry. However, there may be times when Staff choose not to do so and Non-Staff Forum members are not allowed to start these discussion thread topics.

< Message edited by Karika -- 11/30/2017 21:02:41 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 38
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