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12/26/2017 11:50:34   

Initially, I was gonna make this into a thread where I asked a question, and then we'd all discuss it together and get horribly sidetracked talking about something else.

Then I thought "Hang on, why don't we turn this into a little game AND 'answer' more than one question in a single thread?"

So here we have a little game based on a slightly different game from another forum I used to occupy. Rules are simple. I ask a question, next person gives their best answer and poses one of their own, then the next person does the same, and so on. Fairly simple. If you wanna dispute an answer given by the previous bloke, you can either make another thread based solely on that question/answer, or just keep it short (1-2 sentences preferably) in your response to their question. Case in point, this is not the place for those kind of arguments.

There are no restrictions on the size of your answer.

Also, if you want to provide some background behind why you're asking the question, feel free (again, keep it short).

So with that out of the way, my question:

What would happen to our dragon if we (The Hero) died?

No denying we've come close several times. Don't think it's ever been explained what happens to a dragon when their DragonLord dies.

< Message edited by Commander_In_Red -- 12/26/2017 11:53:06 >


The pessimist complains about the wind;
the optimist expects it to change;
the realist adjusts the sails.
- William Arthur Ward
DF  Post #: 1
12/26/2017 12:24:47   

Isn't this an unintended suggestion thread?
Post #: 2
12/26/2017 13:04:12   

I really like the idea @Commander_In_Red, @lastspartan I can't see how it could be a suggestion thread, it seems more speculative using hypotheticals.

So the Question at hand:
"What would happen to our dragon if we (The Hero) died?"

It seems that this must be posed to all dragonlords, as dragons appear to live for thousands of years, while it has never been claimed that DLs have increased longevity due to their spiritual connection with the big bad lizards.

If a dragon died when its companion died, I doubt many dragons would want to bond as it could potentially reduce their life span thousand-fold. Therefore i doubt, seeing as we know (Vilmor), adults dragons have bonded with children.

Therefore I believe it is simply a loss to the dragon, in our dragon's case the loss of losing a close friend and pseudo-parent. Assuming it is a two way system, Vilmor did not seem overly adversly affected when Cryozen died. therefore I hypothesise, that if we died our dragon would be consumed with sorrow, possibly to the point of insanity, given how the threat of us dying showed it was willing to have its mind corrupted for our sake. However it could recover and possibly bond again, we don't know if a dragon can bond twice in its life, but Vilmor could bond with two dragons after his first died.

Now, the rules of the thread dictate I must ask a question, which will be:

Why does Alteon accept Jaania and the Rose even when they blunt his power, has he lost the ability to rule his kingdom? Why accept becoming a figurehead? e.g: when he was prevented from seeing us at the tournament.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 3
12/26/2017 14:11:01   


To answer your question, "Why does Alteon accept Jaania and the Rose even when they blunt his power, has he lost the ability to rule his kingdom? Why accept becoming a figurehead?"

He accepted Jaania and the Rose, because as unfortunate as it is, he truly believed them to be correct in their views(even their subjugation of magical creatures). As for the blunting of his power, that hasn't been exactly shown. They don't interfere with Falconreach on his orders, after all, and their preventing us from seeing him wasn't them overriding his power, so much as it was overriding the rules of the tournament under the pretense of "we were a potential threat to the king", whether or not that actually was their intention.

So, my question in this case would be:

Why hadn't the Mysterious Stranger attempted to corrupt/DOOM-ify Kathool?

Reasoning: We know that the shadowschythe can corrupt pretty much anybody with a weak enough will, given enough time to do so. Kathool has never exactly shown a will on the same level as someone who can resist the corruption, like, say, Ash, or Artix, or the Hero(he's only ever really shown the ability to drive people mad with his power). So, with the incredible amount of power and influence Kathool would have granted the shadowscythe(which we actually got a small taste of when Caitiff copied his powers) if he were to be corrupted, why haven't they shown any attepts at all to do so? Even caitiff only went there to simply research him. Though, in that case, it was pretty apparent that caitiff was nowhere near powerful enough to attempt it, as it was nearly driven mad itself. the Mysterious Stranger, on the other had, is almost as old as Kathool, and was powerful enough to survive the reset, just like Kathool. Logically speaking, it should have been well within his power to at least consider attempting it at some point in time while Kathool slept, right?

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 12/26/2017 14:19:39 >
DF  Post #: 4
12/26/2017 18:43:13   


Could be a couple reasons. First, Kathool is too powerful to be corrupted by usual techniques, and the MS does not want to wake him up by mistake if it goes wrong. Second, Kathool's madness might be so pervasive that even the MS fears it. Kathool could be corrupted, but would subsequently drive all of the Shadowscythe insane.
That would be... bad.

My question:

Even after the destruction of the Judgement Wheel and the supposed loss of his powers, Vaal is still REALLY strong. He trounces all manner of Void Creature while waltzing through the Deep Void and it is implied he has aspects of both Chaosweaver and Soulsmith abilities. But it doesn't add up. He claims that he was so weak the Rose had no interest in him, and we can see he was abandoned by his followers. I don't see how canonically his strength makes sense. One moment he's, "I am weak ... I am too weak,"* and in the next he's, "UNLIMITED POWAH!"* Can someone explain where he lines up in the hierarchy of power, and also how his strength has fluctuated?

* 5 points for the reference.
Post #: 5
12/26/2017 18:54:08   

@above: I think those claims might have been more drunken upsetness with his situation rather than an objective honest statement. A peak Vaal is probably a Seppy tier level power whereas Vaal as he was when you described can probably still toy with our Hero.

Then again I'm a massive Vaal fanboy. He's my favorite character in DF so I too might just be very biased XD

My question:

If Akanthus knew who Amadeus really was...do you think he'd be more inclined to use his current position of power over him or less inclined to due to fear of what Seppy could potential due to him etc?

< Message edited by FriendOfAFriend -- 12/26/2017 18:55:53 >
Post #: 6
12/26/2017 23:28:16   

Akanthus strikes me as arrogant, the most obvious sign of a fodder villian. He thinks he can use Sepulchures secret to manipulate him, but I suspect he will show some restraint untill he sees how far he can push him. I suspect he will go to far however, and may even lead to Sepulchure's return to full power. Be that the case, expect a scene where Akanthus, whom I suspect will become quite the hated bigot and monster by the end, will meet a glorious and satisfying end at Sepulchure's hands.

As for my question: How the heck is Noxus still alive. I'd thought we'd killed him after the Darkness Orb finale, and I was certain after his defeat on Frostval. Do we keep having pity on him, or is he just that sneaky, what gives?

< Message edited by brotherinlaw -- 12/26/2017 23:31:51 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
12/27/2017 2:40:33   
Advocator of Wills

Noxus is an undead just like Sek-Duat when the Hero fought both of them back in Book 1. Therefore both have made appearances again in Book 3 and in the Thanksgiving chapter this year.

They are not easily "killed" by means of bonafide adventurers travelling the region of Doomwood and scattering the skeletal remains throughout any place unless it takes Artix's paladin order, Dove or other beings from the Elemental Plane of Light to do it.

FOAF: It seems like a possibility if Akanthus ever does realize the true identity and powers of Amadeus, lest he lays low and doesn't get suspected. Jaania may be the only other person in the higher-ranking stands of the Rose, but even she could have kept secrets from him.

< Message edited by Jorath -- 12/27/2017 2:53:04 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 8
12/27/2017 3:36:31   


~original: @FriendOfAFriend
If Akanthus knew who Amadeus really was...do you think he'd be more inclined to use his current position of power over him or less inclined to due to fear of what Seppy could potential due to him etc?

Akanthus has an agenda, and is clearly utilizing blackmail to pursue it. Amadeus is a key player in the entire scenario; his interference is extremely dangerous to Akanthus. It seems... arrogant of Akanthus not to check his identity, but it's not as relevant as it might seem. Additionally, as I believe we've brought up before, Amadeus could well back Akanthus into a corner without revealing his identity.
As Akanthus will surely have noticed, any punishment, magical or otherwise, that Amadeus attempts on him would first require degrading the trust of Jaania and the Rose as a whole. Since that trust was the only thread by which he currently has any power, he blackmailed Amadeus to ensure said powers' continuation.

Amadeus, in his current role, couldn't actually move against Akanthus, even if Akanthus were to fall from grace. In fact, exposing Amadeus' identity would be the most dangerous course of action he could take.
Lastly, the fact that Akanthus didn't check Amadeus' identity is most dangerous because of, well, the Hero (and other, similar, hidden connections). There being no established connection between the two figures, Amadeus could potentially move against Akanthus via the Hero; something he would clearly find distasteful, meaning it would only be likely in the event that Amadeus is desperate.
The other unknown factor Akanthus would overlook would be the existence of Amadeus' daughter. I'd imagine he might be driven to extreme courses of action if there were some issue involving his daughter...

As for Noxus, he was around before Zorbak's accident, right? Lending credence to the idea that he is fully undead, as Jorath outlined above. Also... he's not a villain we can really take seriously, so the rules of comedy apply (a DF example of this would be Roirr, having a whole arc that essentially revolves around his failed attempts at immortality, in comparison to Sally, who becomes immortal by simply not wanting to grow up).

Since this format asks for a question, what if Aria was Lynn's half-sister? what if the Hero begun their journey a few years later— not frozen from a timeskip, mind— and instead of beginning a warrior, rogue, or mage, were instead a member of the Rose. What would their journey comprise? What would the differences be? What would be the same?
DF MQ  Post #: 9
12/27/2017 14:23:03   

Everything would be dead and enshrouded in darkness due to us not being there to hatch the World Destroyer, stop Drakath from getting the World Destroyer for Seppy, or fulfil our part of the prophecy.

What would happen if the Hero hd kept the Orbs and tried to use them instead of giving them to the people who failed to protect them the first time(excepting the Darkness, which we put in our bank.)
AQ DF  Post #: 10
12/27/2017 16:45:38   

rater202: We'd have a battle where we're on about the same power level as Seppy but in the end he'd beat us, take the orbs, and the rest would happen as it did.

What would've happened if at the end of book 2, Konnan would try to replace us as a hero for the time we were frozen?
DF  Post #: 11
12/28/2017 0:13:18   

We would have returned to a world caught between fire and Ice, as Konnan, pushed to the limits by the Rose, had called upon the powers he learned from Xan, defending himself from Jaania at full power, mahat.

Now, what would happen if Tomix hadn't accepted the bet and unleashed the seven corrupt elemental spirits?
DF  Post #: 12
12/28/2017 1:16:14   


In the simplest way i can think of to explain it, reality would break. To actually explain why, is a whole lot more complicated and convoluted: First off, Tomix would never have gone on the hunt to find the seven spirits, thus never meet us. Vayle would then have the Orb still inside her(but this isn't the important bit). We would also never meet Aegis and bond with him, nor would we break the judgement wheel. Furthermore, we wouldn't need to go into the Deep Void, thus meaning we probably never would have met Maz, and Vaal never would have met Roirr. Vaal not meeting Roirr means that Vaal and Roirr never go to the future, which means that Secundus never sends them into the past, which means that they never teach Tanislav how to cast Tanislav's Last Will, which means that Roirr and Vall don't become Secundus, Elemental spirits never come into existence, and Roirr dies as a child. This further means that the Weaving Schools are never made, Pandora never creates Aspar, and Aspar never creates his six siblings. This ALSO means that Tomix and Vaal are never born(and now you see why it's not that big a deal that we never separate the darkness orb from Vayle in comparison).

Yeah. Reality breaks.

My question:

Why are the Founders of the Inn at the Edge of Time seemingly immune to the memory deletion effect of returning to your own timeline?
DF  Post #: 13
12/28/2017 2:33:47   

What would happen if we (our players as partial necromancers at least) resurrected the giant dracolich statue in the background of Falconreach?

AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 14
12/28/2017 2:44:38   
Lord Run

i know it might sounds crazy but in the inn at the end of time with the challenges there was a character an NPC that asked me for 1000 gold for a spoiler and one of the spoilers
he gave me is that Akanthus gonna be our greatest ally,he told me many things but that was the most impotent one of them but after he ended the hero got angry and said that he will
forget all of that. just some thing i thought you guys should know...

by the way guys i lost 20K gold to get that spoiler i hope it would be proven worth it ^_^
which is actually 50% of all the gold i had back in that day its actually very tempting to lose all my gold for even more info.
i mean most of the things was thing i all ready knew but the Akanthus spoiler is a big deal i mean him being our biggest ally that was worth my 20K

< Message edited by Lord Run -- 12/28/2017 3:12:13 >
Post #: 15
12/28/2017 3:05:11   


~original: @rater202
Everything would be dead and enshrouded in darkness due to us not being there to hatch the World Destroyer, stop Drakath from getting the World Destroyer for Seppy, or fulfil our part of the prophecy.

Remember that we also played a part in the MS's plan. Without us there to extract the... harder to find orbs, the plan could not have continued. Additionally, the prophecy was made by looking at the future, so realistically, if the Hero never existed the prophecy would be different. If the plan had never gone ahead, Warlic wouldn't have split either, and Jaania wouldn't have founded the Rose...
Basically, either the Hero would have to exist, just not as our player, or the setting is isolated somewhat from previous events. For the purposes of speculation.


~original: @Greyor_42
Vaal not meeting Roirr means that Vaal and Roirr never go to the future, which means that Secundus never sends them into the past, which means that they never teach Tanislav how to cast Tanislav's Last Will...This ALSO means that Tomix and Vaal are never born

Bear in mind that there had to have been a system of time travel in place to lead up to final time loop. If Roirr died and Tanislav time-traveled, becoming the black robed stranger who sold the younger Tanislav the Will, it could well have led to the final, closed feedback loop.
So if Tomix hadn't released the spirits, something odd would have happened. Since Weaving already existed, it can't have been an original timeline. But Tanislav would have already died by that stage, precluding the possibility of his own time travel. If at any stage in a loop there is no information transfer to a successive timeline... the loop resets, and becomes divergent. Divergent in this usage means it never settles.

(In answer to your actual question)
The Avatar of Time Hero stated that we were among the 'simpler' versions of the potential heroes. Presumably, the methods by which they retain their memories must then be more complex.
If a system is put in place that provides remote relays that can transfer memory between timelines, it would be a simple question of forming a sequence of relays that creates no paradoxes (this can become quite complicated, though still logical; the details are a little convoluted for a post. Also, I'm not entirely clear on how they'd work, exactly...)
One essential feature of this system, though, would be to create a system that enables two paths to the same result; otherwise, there will always be an annoying paradox somewhere.
One example, using books as relays, would be writing something in a book in the first timeline. In the successive timeline, the events are different, so that same book couldn't be written originally. Instead, you copy the text of the book from the previous timeline.
If all that filters through to the final timeline is the text of the book, there is no difference in final result between the different timelines, despite having multiple paths to the same thing. Likewise with memory transfers.

Alternately, the entire issue of changing physicality but not memory is really not a consistent system. You can train in the inn, therefore the regions of your brain that are trained to physical movement are also unaffected. Given this, there is presumably a system in place for wiping the memories of the different versions as they leave. In which case, the founders need simply to make an exception for themselves in this system.

What would have happened had the Hero retained their memories from before the Reset?
DF MQ  Post #: 16
12/28/2017 3:55:45   

The hero would still be heroic, but in a more cynical and distant manner, burdened by the knowledge that their quest to help and improve the world will never come to an end.
They'll eventually try to find a way to stop the threats to lore permanently- causing them either to try and change the nature of the world like the rose do (although possibly by other means), or perhaps uniting the dragonlords and the guardians into a new order of defenders capable of taking down great threats, resulting in an era of peace.
Either way, the hero will not be at the center of action most of the time, but will be more like Warlic, a great and ancient force called when the time is most dire.

What would have happened in the royal gala if the hero would not have won the tournament of champions?

< Message edited by mahasamatman -- 12/28/2017 3:56:01 >
DF  Post #: 17
12/28/2017 10:45:39   

The hero wouldn’t even have attended the gala. Azaveyer would have attacked, and probably successfully FULLY assassinated King Alteon, as well as potentially the princesses. War would break out far sooner, and swordhaven would be plunged into chaos, with someone outside the royal family most likely coming to the throne, maybe a rose member?

What would have happened if Warlic failed to stop the avatars after Nythera angered them?
Post #: 18
12/28/2017 11:41:09   

Nythera and Warlic alike would have found the both of them overwhelmed by the power of all eight avatars; however, as they closed in on Nythera, the hero would have intervened. Calling upon their dragon and their amulet, they would fight with everything they had to protect their two fallen friends, only to be taught a lesson that many others had learned time and time again; magic always wins. The moment the hero realized this was the moment when they collapsed over the corpse of their fallen dragon, as the Avatars floated impassively over the lifeless bodies of Warlic and Nythera.

The hero, ever determined, would eventually recover from this horrible loss...but something within them would change...for the worse. They would find themselves with a growing hatred for the forces of magic that had taken their dragon, Warlic, and even Nythera from them. This rage would go untapped until he discovered a frozen woman deep in the basements of Swordhaven, during a crisis involving beings of another world chased by the fiery Wargoth. Together, they would put an end to Wargoth...and eventually, they hoped, magic itself. Something that had caused the both of them great loss.


What would happen if The Hero had taken up the Ultimate Orb?
Post #: 19
12/29/2017 9:28:34   

At no point did the Ultimate Orb enter the heroes possession, so the point is moot.

However, for the sake of argument: The function of the Untimate Orb, inspired as the Orbs were by the Dragon Balls, appears to be the simple granting of a wish. Depending on the Heroe's mindset at the point he got. Holding it, and assuming ritual and magic aren't necessary after the formation of the Orb, we may have stripped Sepulchure of his armor, destroyed the Mysterious Stranger, or even prematurely summoned Truth. If you don't understand what that last part means,I'm not spoiling years worth of AQ storyline in one post.

My question: people seem to get the idea Can, Jaania, and Warlic were apprenticed centuries ago. Where do they get this idea?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 20
12/29/2017 9:39:34   

Because of Nythera she said she was an apprentice to Warlic for centuries. An apprentice does not have an apprentice.


Nythera: It's not fair.
Nythera: Warlic is taking to long to teach me his magic. I need to have his powers to unlock my own.
<Character>: Unlock your own?
Nythera: *sigh* I'm grounded and my dragon magic is bound. I'm allowed to learn human magic but Warlic is being incredibly slow to teach me.
Nythera: He has incredible power. I know he has some secret that can remove the bind on my magic.
<Character>: Shouldn't you just wait? I mean if you're grounded...
Nythera: No! It's been two hundred years! It's not fair and I want my magic back now!


Do guardians take anyone in their ranks?

< Message edited by dragon_monster -- 12/29/2017 9:47:33 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 21
12/29/2017 10:05:38   


Originally, probably not. But with the recent wars causing such a shortage in personnel, they probably had to lower the bar for entrance by a fair margin.

Realistically speaking, would our dragon ever grow to be as large as Sepulchure's dracholich fortress(lorewise, not necessarily in-game)? If so, how long would it take, and how the heck would we ride them at that point? Would we have to build some sort of saddle outpost thing to strap to them via a harness?
DF  Post #: 22
12/29/2017 11:08:49   

By the time our dragon is that big, the gnomes will have invented draconic remote controls that utilize the telepathic link to send and receive signals to the dragon, thereby negating the need for saddles and putting saddle-makers out of business.
Either that, or we get our dragon to uproot a Rose outpost Guardian Tower and stick it to their back (using glue derived from the bones of the original dracolich).

Dragons have a set lifespan. Ancient dragons, it would appear, had a longer time to grow than the ones who came later... whether our dragon-- as an egg that lay unhatched for a considerable number of years-- possesses those genetics is up for debate.


~original: @brotherinlaw
--or even prematurely summoned Truth. If you don't understand what that last part means,I'm not spoiling years worth of AQ storyline in one post.

Just as a side note, I'm fairly sure AQ is not canon to DF.
I'd also debate this:

The function of the Untimate Orb, inspired as the Orbs were by the Dragon Balls, appears to be the simple granting of a wish.

As there is no indication in-game that the Ultimate Orb grants wishes; it is implied that it simply gives the wielder concentrated power, presumably yielding far more potential uses than ordinary orbs.

What if Warlic hadn't split in two, but rather, three? Judging based on his typical, merged appearance, what three characters would comprise his entire personality? (excluding, obviously, the Professor and Wargoth as options)
DF MQ  Post #: 23
12/29/2017 13:36:00   

Shiny: That's a good one. The professor and Wargoth represented Walic's powerful magic and infernal origin, and his intelligence and responsibility.

I'd say if he'd split into three, we'd have the following:
One philosopher/researcher who'd be uninterested in either helping or hurting anyone, only observing the events and studying them (a sort of archivist).
One emotion-driven mage, having no memories but distinct feeling towards different people who Warlic knew- instinctively befriending the hero, feeling sorry towards Xan, feeling responsible for Nythera, etc.
One extremely powerful mana entity, something similar to ManaCrest or the mana-nexus-zombie-thingies used in Azaveyr, but on titanic scale. A threat similar to Wargoth, but less intelligent and with no fire affinity.

I'd say the uber-mana-warlic would be drawn to the fissure, trying to absorb it into itself, which could probably result in a mana-black-hole or just explode and destroy everything, and stopping that would be the main story of book 2.

What would've happened if Troy Surehunter wouldn't have betrayed the hero, but instead would've tried to use the Blade of Awe + earth orb for good, or agree to help safeguard them from Seppy?

< Message edited by mahasamatman -- 12/29/2017 13:37:08 >
DF  Post #: 24
12/29/2017 16:58:17   

Blade of Awe plus earth orb might've been tough for even Seppy to take, soo.... I'm going with a titanic war between Trey's elementals and golems, supported by the Guardians, vs Sepulcher's forces. With Seppy and Trey summoning infinite legions, we reach a stalemate, until Drakath and Xan return with the other seven orbs, Sepulcher draws on their power to overcome the defenses, and then possesses not just the Ultimate orb, but the Blade of Awe. Beyond that, I don't really know who'd win. It all depends on Drakath.

What would happen if...
we knew about the Bacon orb under the tower years ahead of schedule?

< Message edited by GammaCavy -- 12/29/2017 16:59:15 >
DF  Post #: 25
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