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RE: =AQW= Nulgath Zone/Item Discussion

 
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1/9/2018 11:44:29   
goldslayer1
Member

@Asuka
quote:

So Im seeing a lot of "GIVE US PET" and really Id rather not go down the line of legion paragons. But I'll compromise

Please dont compromise. Please no pets.
As someone whose been around since Gen 1, I'd rather not see the Nulgath Nation fall into the same problems that Legion has.
People will ask for a pet, but when its not better than CVK, they're gonna complain about it just like they do with every yearly Legion pet.

Anyone complaining about getting yearly Nulgath pets isn't a real Nulgath Nation follower, IMO.

And I personally cant believe people want to make VHL easier, seriously it wasn't that hard.
Only took me 3 weeks after release to get it and I've heard of a few players who got it in around 18 days after release.




The only complaints I can sort of agree on so far is the lack of non-pet farming method for Dark Crystal Shards.
This was mostly an issue because they nerfed the Dreadrock Gem Exchange quest but never gave DCS a suitable replacement quest.
However if they do add an alternative, I hope its not more OP than current methods.

Removed trolling/flaming. ~Shadowhunt

< Message edited by Shadowhunt -- 1/9/2018 23:41:14 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 51
1/9/2018 17:24:32   
Apeiron
Member

Bday Pets were a mistake. The sooner they stop this trend, the better it will be.
While I don't want the Nation to become the Legion, I do agree the people with pets have a really unfair advantage to those who don't. It doesn't help how ridiculously easy the pet's quests are. Maybe they could increase the drops/drop rate of an already existing quest ?(of course, not to the level of the bday pets) I dunno but something has to be done about the current situation of 'free' nation members.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 52
1/9/2018 17:37:39   
Aura Knight
Member

Nulgath farming is already annoying enough without the use of pets and even with them it's still quite the task to get certain rewards. While you're obviously free to have your own opinion, I have to disagree with the idea that pets were a mistake. Pets make the frustrating farming methods for nulgath items a bit less stressful. However, when a majority of nulgath farming includes RNG based progression, well sometimes not even pets can help. And I don't think it's fair to do a comparison to the legion as legion pets are 2k ac and quite recently there's been a free one given which is seasonal. Nulgath pets include a few 5k ac ones, member only, and the very few ac pets that happen quite rarely. I'm quite fortunate to have the Ceremonial Void Knight Sword pet and I do wish such a pet would be made into a seasonal thing. It would give more players reason to farm for nulgath items and allow for them to experience something they'd otherwise miss out on.

Now, on the other hand, if pets do end, something needs to be done to make the farming method for nulgath reagents more tolerable. This could be a reduction in quest requirements, an increase in drop rates, or whatever else someone could come up with that is to the players' benefit. I understand that the theme for nulgath farming is for it to be insane and make you want to hate everything, but is that such a good thing to have in game? It's something which discourages players and I've been one who experienced those feelings when it came to farming anything Nation related.

One good thing nulgath farming has is a few of the available pets have quests which can be accessed by everyone. However, due to certain changes to the quests, what used to be a simple task which involved fighting one boss became a bit more annoying since it requires 2 monsters be fought, one of which is locked behind a puzzle that for some reason has to be done each time you want to reach said boss.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 53
1/9/2018 18:23:06   
priest_hidan
Member

alright new DN/s up with everything for Nulgath's bday... and I am going mental... Milton's spear and akumi swords are in... i mean... what else do we need in life?
AQW Epic  Post #: 54
1/9/2018 18:24:41   
Apeiron
Member

@Aura: When I was talking about pets, I was referring to the orbs and CVKS. And you're entitled to your opinion, but
spoiler:

Welcome minion… err.. hero. The prices? Oh boohoo! Leave if you think they're unreasonable! I've watched you from the beginning. You've had it easy, hero. Everything has been handed to you. Haha! Do you even know what a challenge is? Earning my wares will cost you… and it'll cost you a lot. Keep whining and I'll decorate this room with your entrails.

the Nation is supposed to be hard. I do agree the farming has to be more tolerable tho, but not on the same level of the orbs and cvks.

@Priest: Akumi's sword is so cool, glad to see they are in good terms with Milton's creations now.

< Message edited by Apeiron -- 1/9/2018 18:44:13 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 55
1/9/2018 18:43:21   
Aura Knight
Member

Yes, hard, but I doubt it's supposed to make us hate the game. Honestly something that would make farming a bit easier is another update to the dreadrock gem exchange quest. A guaranteed tainted gem and a chance for a dark crystal shard would be nice to see. Most other items have easy enough ways to be earned even as a free player.

AQ DF AQW  Post #: 56
1/9/2018 20:38:46   
Foulman
Member

@goldslayer1

Really?
quote:

And I personally cant believe people want to make VHL easier, seriously it wasn't that hard.
Only took me 3 weeks after release to get it and I've heard of a few players who got it in around 18 days after release.


Tip: some people have actual lives

quote:

Please dont compromise. Please no pets.
As someone whose been around since Gen 1, I'd rather not see the Nulgath Nation fall into the same problems that Legion has.
People will ask for a pet, but when its not better than CVK, they're gonna complain about it just like they do with every yearly Legion pet.

Anyone complaining about getting yearly Nulgath pets isn't a real Nulgath Nation follower, IMO.


Mate, it's your exclusionary attitude to new things that is pushing new players away. Since when did you get to define what a "real Nulgath Nation follower" is?

quote:

Yes, hard, but I doubt it's supposed to make us hate the game. Honestly something that would make farming a bit easier is another update to the dreadrock gem exchange quest. A guaranteed tainted gem and a chance for a dark crystal shard would be nice to see. Most other items have easy enough ways to be earned even as a free player.


@Aura Knight is completely right. We want to play the game, but we don't want to hate it.



< Message edited by Foulman -- 1/9/2018 22:12:19 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 57
1/9/2018 21:36:38   
iDreadnaut
Member

quote:

WHO has that time to farm 200 DCS, 1.7k gems without an actual pet.


Anyone who isn't trying to get those as soon as possible, even if it takes weeks or months, because they know VHL isn't going anywhere...?


In all honesty, I really hope AE releases a new farming pet or at least rework the current farming quests for Nulgath birthday this year.
I used CVKS to farm for VHL and it helped me a lot, but still it was really... dull, boring and numbing. I can't even imagine what someone without a rare farming pet must have felt (if they rushed the whole thing like me)...
AQW  Post #: 58
1/9/2018 21:39:20   
HotlineBling
Member

 

quote:

Anyone who isn't trying to get those as soon as possible, even if it takes weeks or months, because they know VHL isn't going anywhere...?


But getting outclassed? (Already is by SSOT/EC,IC. Maybe others I have no clue about)

quote:

I can't even imagine what someone without a rare farming pet must have felt (if they rushed the whole thing like me)...


Finally, ACTUAL SENSE. THANK YOU.
Post #: 59
1/9/2018 21:56:57   
Aura Knight
Member

If a new pet won't happen any chance we could get some quests to existing pets? These quests could be available for everyone but rewards would be a bit less since they'd be universal quests. I'd not mind it if the Ceremonial Void Knight Sword pet had an additional quest for everyone to use. And I'm sure others would appreciate that. If it's okay for anyone to access quests from Drudgen, why not update some of the newer pets to function the same? The owner exclusive quest could remain as is, but maybe this hypothetical new one could reward DCS, Blood Gems, Gems and the vouchers or uni 13. The quest could even be similar to the actual one the pet has as of this moment. I don't know if others would support such a thing though.

< Message edited by Aura Knight -- 1/9/2018 21:57:20 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 60
1/9/2018 21:58:05   
dragontackle
Member

I wonder if we'll ever get a Akumi full set one day....
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 61
1/9/2018 22:33:16   
  Shadowhunt
Snow Angel, Bug Hunter, Class Tester


It seems people are having some trouble remaining civil in this thread. Remember, we expect you to be civil and polite here. If someone's opinion does not agree with yours, either address it in a respectful manner or do not address it at all. Attacking each other and baiting each other into replies are prohibited, so don't do it.

Also remember that the Nation has its own methods for doing farming, and those are different from what the Legion does. The purpose of this thread is to discuss Nulgath's zone and items. If it ends up just turning into a Legion vs. Nation argument, then it is subject to being locked. Nulgath is often a very controversial topic, and if you all show us that you're unable to handle discussion of it with decorum and maturity, we may remove this thread.

Shadowhunt
AQWorlds General Discussion Associate Moderator


< Message edited by Shadowhunt -- 1/9/2018 23:36:34 >
AQ AQW  Post #: 62
1/10/2018 2:06:46   
Foulman
Member

Considering that one AFDL piece can easily take longer than the entire Awe set when you don't have access to pet quests, it's kind of gotten to the point where AQW has become depressing instead of fun. None of this would have happened if we kept a lid on power creep with classes, pets (Paragon) and monsters. These "anti-bot" measures only serve to grind the average player down with complexity, inventory bloating and time inflation. There was once a line between grinding and having fun. AQW is no longer fun, with only a few exceptions. I freely admit that I would cheat if I could, because of the frustrating quest and monster designs. It's unnecessary, stupid and only caters for those few who somehow like grinding more than working a full time job.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 63
1/10/2018 3:30:53   
Insanely
Member

Do the merge / farmed birthday stuff require lots of Nulgath reagents? Based on previous releases on his b-day? I don't remember I participated a Bulgath b-day release before so.. and If I remember correctly past b-day items were just sold in an AC specific event shop.

Been too long since I've farmed Nulgath reagents, I don't quite remember the fast ways or methods. :(
AQW  Post #: 64
1/10/2018 5:11:05   
Ziorac
Member

@Aura Knight
I would love if more Nulgath quest pets had quests that anyone could use. I used to enjoy that about Nulgath, that you didn't have to actually OWN the pet, just know someone who did. It used to be very common to go into a yulgar and find someone standing there with a Drudgen. Sure, the people who had Drudgens got hounded a bit, but you can just bank them. If more pets had that function, it'd probably make Nulgath farming more accessible for people who simply don't have the funds to spend on ACs. I for one, as an owner of several Nulgath quest pets, would love to be able to open up my pets to anyone. Still to this day if someone asks me for a Drudgen or a SoN or a Larvae, I equip it to help them. Hell, if I could get a house quest item that was open to others, I'd get it. Because I want to help. Maybe not everyone would, but... Well, I do.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 65
1/10/2018 6:59:17   
goldslayer1
Member

@Foulman
quote:

Tip: some people have actual lives

How's this relevant?
Nulgath followers have lives too.

VHL is a perm class, cant farm it in 3 weeks? Sparse it out to an hourly grind a day for 3 months.
Or maybe farm something easier? or just straight up buy something easier?
Everyone knows by now that Nulgath farming is gonna be a grind. So unless you're a new player, I dont understand the complaining as Nulgath zone has always been the cream of the crop in terms of end-game grinding.

quote:

Mate, it's your exclusionary attitude to new things that is pushing new players away. Since when did you get to define what a "real Nulgath Nation follower" is?

There's nothing exclusive about this attitude, the entire point of the Nulgath zone was to cater to players who wanted end-game content and hard grinds.
Legion had a similar approach in the beginning until the pets came out.
I dont have a problem with new things, as long as its not copying from something else.

If the pet was an Orb with a quest to farm for items, similar to the Evolved Orbs where it gives you an armor set, then that'd be cool.
If its gonna be a quest for Nulgath regeants that makes farming easier, then personally I'm not gonna like it, because I wouldn't like the Nation to go down that slippery slope.

As for the NN follower comment, I did specify "IMO". No need to take offense to it.

quote:

Considering that one AFDL piece can easily take longer than the entire Awe set when you don't have access to pet quests, it's kind of gotten to the point where AQW has become depressing instead of fun.

Well that seems to be a player priority issue, not an AQW issue, IMO.
If you dont enjoy doing something, why do you voluntarily continue doing it?
There's more to AQW than the AFDL set.
I personally only got the AFDL for the bonuses, but since its release, there's already way easier alternatives to achieve the same bonus or better.
Any of the Awe items, the 7 years played badge shop items, Burning Blade, and Burning Blade of Azebeth are all equal or better than the AFDL sets bonuses.

@Priest_hidan
I agree, I see comments often alluding to that in Nulgath related discussions, and it only happens when there's something hard to grind and people want to make it easier.

@Insanely
IIRC, the Nulgath Nation House and the Evolved orbs came out in January 2016, while VHL and the CVK pet came out in January 2017. I think AFDL was a few months before VHL though.

@iDreadnout
quote:

I can't even imagine what someone without a rare farming pet must have felt (if they rushed the whole thing like me)...

No rare farming pet when I farmed NNH, Evolved Orb pets, and AFDL. Felt just fine, in fact it was even fun when farming the same things with a friend.

@Aura Knight
Personally I think the better approach would be updating the old quests from Drudgen and C&B. Some of the quests there are outdated in the sense that the value for certain reagents has completely changed.
For example on Drudgen pet, 'Contract Exchange' quests asks for a Uni 13 to exchange for 3 Diamonds.
Then 'Drudgen the Salesman' quests asks for 40 Tainted Gems, 40 DCS, and Voucher (non-mem) for a Diamond of Nulgath.

Then for C&B there's
'GRUMBLE, GRUMBLE...' that asks for 40 Tainted Gems, 40 DCS, Dark Crystal x1 (drop), and the quest prize is 1 Diamond of Nulgath.
'Crag's Thirst' asks for 100 Bags of Dirt in exchange for 1 Diamond.

Then there's 'The Poisonous Deal' and 'The Refreshing Deal' that also asks for really unfavorable trades.

The Nation already has pets, some open ones (Drudgen, Larvae), and some privates ones. But some of the quests are just useless since the value of Reagents has shifted over time.

And Given the price for Drudgen and C&B, I wouldn't mind if they were made non-mem. I think that would actually solve more issues than releasing new pets.
And non-mem Drudgen and C&B would probably drive more sales as well.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 1/10/2018 7:10:44 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 66
1/10/2018 7:21:47   
bigolron
Member

Vote with your wallets, people. I personally won't be buying anything from Nulgath's birthday shop if a farming pet isn't released.
The art isn't as attractive as the gen 1 nulgath items either, and if I were to buy any items, it would only be because they have the "Nulgath" prefix. Release the same items with a name excluding words associated with Nulgath and I wouldn't buy them at all.
Post #: 67
1/10/2018 11:19:15   
dragontackle
Member

So are the Astral orbs still the objectively best way to farm Nul reagents?
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 68
1/10/2018 12:35:47   
Stronius
Member

IMO the problem with Nulgath Farming in it's current state, for things like VHL at least, is the dull, utter repetitiveness of it all. This is due primarily to price inflation, but most top-tier Nulgath items require a rediculous amount of reagents, of which there are only one or two effective ways to farm for.

To give an example, here is a rundown of how I farm for a single Roentgenium of Nulgath. First I grind out my CVKS for a few hours, to just gather up on the various reagents, hopefully picking up some Gems and a Uni 13 or two. Then I go to boxes and kill hundreds of sneevils for half an hour, turn in the SoN quest 20 times, then repeat this process four more times. Then comes the emblems, a grind for an hour or two, depending on RNG, in shadowblast. Makais die in droves in /Nulgath or tercess, as I need approx. 170 essences in total, 120 for the 20 Gems and 50 for the VHL quest itself, which takes another few hours, again depending on RNG and respawn speed. Then I sit in Evilwarnul for a while, gathering up Favors and approvals from the undead armies, picking up some diamonds along the way to restock my inventory. Finally, I have to grind gemstone drops from various bosses for Tendurr the Assistant, a quest that can take over 20 minutes depending on drop rates, and repeat this ten times. Once I gather up all of the other various items from the Black Knight and the dwakels, I collect my one Roentgenium, leaving myself another 1/15th of the way done with VHL (minus the void crystals, of course).

Now, just one or two Roentgeniums isn't bad, but 15 of them is beyond tedious. The ridiculous amounts of tainted gems, gems and essences required, none of which have a bulk or efficient way to farm, is what makes the VHL grind, among other Nulgath items, dull. For me, AFDL was much easier than this, if only because the quests for it made the grind more spread out, more varied. At least when you had to collect the Malignant Essences, the quest sent you to a different map, for a different item, every 10 or 20 minutes, and with a little RNG the quests didn't take very long, either. You can farm for just an hour or two a day and get another piece of the AFDL set every week. The VHL challenge quest, on the other hand, reminds me more of the final AFDL quest for the armor itself, requiring hundreds and hundreds of reagents.

Yes, VHL has avoided frustration by taking most of the RNG out of the questline, but this has effectively increased the farm time, and exponentially multiplied the repetitiveness, by needing untold thousands of simple reagents instead of that one, hard-to-get drop. This method of end-game farming is more fair and balanced, since two people doing the same quests can get the same items in more or less the same amount of time, but there's no fun in it, not like in, say, Gen. 1, when everyone would fight Groglurk, Kitsune, Vath and Escherion together, celebrating with our fellow farmers when one of us got a diamond or a cool Unidentified drop.



< Message edited by Stronius -- 1/10/2018 12:39:02 >


_____________________________

Clever, witty, and slightly Daemonic.
http://www.aq.com/aw-character.asp?id=Stronius
AQW Epic  Post #: 69
1/10/2018 12:49:15   
The ErosionSeeker
*insert cheesy pun here*


Given how you observed that TGs takes just half an hour relative to the rest of that time, I can't think of a reason why anyone would have preferred the previous format.

It's this or AFDL.
DF AQW  Post #: 70
1/10/2018 14:07:21   
goldslayer1
Member

@Stronius
For the repetitive dull tasks, I go with the easiest most straight forward method (even if its slightly longer than another faster method), and multitask (I.e. watch a movie/show, listen to a podcast, etc).
I prefer 'Bone Dust Regeant' quest from SoN to farm Tainted Gems.
Its easier, stacks up to x5100 (Which can be converted to 204 TGs), and it doesn't require moving around or full focus on it.
Ill usually watch a movie/show while doing this with the Shaman 1-2 combo.

Same for Totem/Gem of Nulgath (Drudgen quest), and Diamond/Favors/Approvals (Evilwarnul but with Dragonlord class).
The only one that is remotely complicated is DCS only because I cant coast through it like the others.

I prefer the VHL method though, because you can quantify how long the farm will take you, as opposed to AFDL where it could really go sour.
I was lucky to have gotten Uni 35 on my 3rd quest, but I imagine someone out there had to do the quest a dozen+ times for it.

quote:

This method of end-game farming is more fair and balanced, since two people doing the same quests can get the same items in more or less the same amount of time, but there's no fun in it, not like in, say, Gen. 1, when everyone would fight Groglurk, Kitsune, Vath and Escherion together, celebrating with our fellow farmers when one of us got a diamond or a cool Unidentified drop.

This brings back a lot of memories of farming Escherion helms with friends back in Gen 1.

This comment just popped an idea into my head.
An exciting concept could be party quests, where you have to be in a party to accept and complete quests as a party. Could require minimum X players on it too.
Not sure how they'd do it though.

@Dragontackle
From what I can recall, Orb was still slightly faster in terms of speed (Unless you stacked Aquamarine and had ENNH, where it was a shortcut to Terces) due to less room jumping.
The only issue is having to fight the Jellyfish alone (if your class isn't top level) or in a crowded laggy room.

There was also speculation that Astra Orb had better chances at some drops while CVK was better in others, but I think none of that was confirmed.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 1/10/2018 14:08:58 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 71
1/10/2018 15:38:46   
iDreadnaut
Member

quote:

An exciting concept could be party quests, where you have to be in a party to accept and complete quests as a party. Could require minimum X players on it too.
Not sure how they'd do it though.


I really hope this never becomes a thing, and not only in the Nulgath zones, but anywhere in this game.
I hate it when MMOs hide content behind party-only walls. I'm an introvert and not very sociable, so it's extremely awkward/hard for me to go around asking for help/parties.

Tho, I'm okay with playing with others using public queue (or just joining a map like in AQW) since it doesn't require any synergy and communication, unlike pre-made parties.
AQW  Post #: 72
1/10/2018 15:58:33   
goldslayer1
Member

@iDreadnaut
I was talking about as an alternative for reagent farming, not for items.
AQW Epic  Post #: 73
1/10/2018 17:24:26   
Keeper of the Owls
Member

quote:

So are the Astral orbs still the objectively best way to farm Nul reagents?


Them and the Ceremonial Void Knight Sword yes. The Astral Orbs were a mistake.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 74
1/10/2018 19:26:18   
Foulman
Member

@Stronius
Now imagine that without the CVKS.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 75
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