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1/12/2018 15:48:55   
dragon_monster
Member

Yeah use it as an power source like empower an certain sword you seem to think is not legendary if not with the earth orb powering it which I agree because its shown that any weapon can become very power if imbued with an certain shard of said elemental orbs.

Yeah we had 5 of them and we still have the bacon orb why not imbue weapons with them and make them legendary in power?

Why would the avatars even make items of great power in the first place if not to use it? That guardians back then by the way where not guardians in our sense but the strong warriors of an certain king that while not said outright where given the orbs to fix the elemental imbalance, which hear me out was done with the orbs used as an power source to beat the shadowskythe and you know remove the reason for the elemental imbalance.

Now lets continue if evil us took the blade of awe he still had 5 orbs to power that sword. The good us had to take it from Valencia to use the sword and us could not do that as us respected her wishes but evil us does not have that problem.

Now does that work?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 26
1/12/2018 16:17:44   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster

quote:

like empower an certain sword you seem to think is not legendary


I never said the Blade of Awe isn't legendary. I said that legends often exaggerate the truth. Those are two very different statements.

quote:

Why would the avatars even make items of great power in the first place if not to use it?


Lord Valorus sums it up pretty nicely, and he clearly agrees with me:

quote:

Lord Valorus: To bring balance back... to give humans, and dragons, a fighting chance against the corruption, each Avatar coalesced a pure orb of their element, which was given to a human commander to protect.


They were made to create balance between the elements, nothing more. Of course, to do that, they had to be powerful elemental artifacts. People and dragons just realized that, if they were naturally aligned with the same element, they could tap into the power of the orb's elemental plane with them, which was not their intended purpose.

quote:

That guardians back then by the way where not guardians in our sense but the strong warriors of an certain king


Umm, that's not really all that accurate.

quote:

Lord Valorus: Back then we were all just adventurers looking to make a few gold.


Sounds more like they were just mercenaries that got hired by the king to me than "strong warriors of the king". And even After they met the avatars, they still weren't "of the king", since their only loyalty was to their mission of guarding the orbs.
DF  Post #: 27
1/12/2018 16:23:10   
requiem.exe
Member

The only way I'm on board with the idea of good or evil us attaching the Bacon orb to anything is if we attach it to an Egg elemental and leave it in a room with me - alone.

For like, 5, maybe 10 minutes. Are toast spirits a thing? Can we get a Elemental Spirit aligned to Bacon to become a toast spirit? I know I can get some Holy Wasabi from Artix, an Elemental Spirit of Toast is all I'm missing.

Once I'm done, we'll know exactly how an evil us compares to the normal version.
AQ DF  Post #: 28
1/12/2018 16:33:37   
dragon_monster
Member

quote:

Lord Valorus: To bring balance back... to give humans, and dragons, a fighting chance against the corruption, each Avatar coalesced a pure orb of their element, which was given to a human commander to protect.


Really now does that not mean anything? How do you think its gave the humans and dragons and fighting chance if not used. Are they of any use to keep them as an decorative piece?

quote:

I never said the Blade of Awe isn't legendary. I said that legends often exaggerate the truth. Those are two very different statements.


Point still stand can or not the Blade of Awe be empowered by one of the other orbs in the hero's possession? Will an evil us not use that you know after all?

quote:

Sounds more like they were just mercenaries that got hired by the king to me than "strong warriors of the king". And even After they met the avatars, they still weren't "of the king", since their only loyalty was to their mission of guarding the orbs.


Really is that even important was that the point that they where hired by an king not loyal to the king why does that matter in this discussion? Is it not that there where powerful and not guardians who reach the middle of an horde of elementals and got the orbs to give an fighting chance against the corruption which will not give one if they where an decorative piece. They where clearly meant to be used in fighting.
Are you telling me that those adventurers all 8 of them had each an attunment to each 8 elements to use the orbs?



AQ DF MQ  Post #: 29
1/12/2018 16:57:07   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster


quote:

How do you think its gave the humans and dragons and fighting chance if not used.


Obviously, having orbs that acted as virtual fountains of energy straight from the Elemental planes merely existing in our world was enough of an elemental influence to weaken the corruption they had to fight.

quote:

They where clearly meant to be used in fighting.


No, they clearly weren't. They were meant solely to balance out the elements. Not as weapons. And not "decorative pieces" either.

quote:

Point still stand can or not the Blade of Awe be empowered by one of the other orbs in the hero's possession? Will an evil us not use that you know after all?


Again, I ask, and have not gotten answered, how would the evil us have even learned of the Blade of Awe's existence in the first place? If they were evil, Valencia wouldn't have teamed up with them, thus they never would have met Trey, thus never learned that the Blade of Awe was even a thing, thus never would have been able to fuse it with one of the orbs that Sepulchure most likely already stole from them because they were too greedy to be smart and hide them away.

quote:

Are you telling me that those adventurers all 8 of them had each an attunment to each 8 elements to use the orbs?


First, there were 9 of them. Not 8.

Second, no, of course I'm not. Why would they need any sort of attunement to them, when their sole task was to protect them? Not use them, protect them. And what do their connection to the orbs even have to do with a hypothetical fight between a good us and an evil us that you seem incredibly dead set on high-balling the power of to practical god levels at a point in time where they wouldn't have even gotten close to such levels of power?
DF  Post #: 30
1/12/2018 17:17:02   
dragon_monster
Member

quote:

Obviously, having orbs that acted as virtual fountains of energy straight from the Elemental planes merely existing in our world was enough of an elemental influence to weaken the corruption they had to fight.


Why? There where the avatars there on Lore you know and there is nothing stopping them on just staying there and give that energy. Do you think there is an veil of energy that stops outside forces from attacking Lore? There is not by the way the outside forces are kept out by beating them time and time and time again until some day they can not be.

quote:

Again, I ask, and have not gotten answered, how would the evil us have even learned of the Blade of Awe's existence in the first place? If they were evil, Valencia wouldn't have teamed up with them, thus they never would have met Trey, thus never learned that the Blade of Awe was even a thing, thus never would have been able to fuse it with one of the orbs that Sepulchure most likely already stole from them because they were too greedy to be smart and hide them away.


This is Valencia she is not an paragon of good we are talking about it does not mean she will not help us if we where evil why would she not? We will not reach that far yes we will we searched for her in the first place if we where stupid evil she will help us knowing she can trick us later and can use us and also not get killed if us where smart evil she will help us because she does not know any better and all is well.

quote:

Second, no, of course I'm not. Why would they need any sort of attunement to them, when their sole task was to protect them? Not use them, protect them. And what do their connection to the orbs even have to do with a hypothetical fight between a good us and an evil us that you seem incredibly dead set on high-balling the power of to practical god levels at a point in time where they wouldn't have even gotten close to such levels of power?


Because they will use the orbs you know why because if this forum does not delete all threads because it wants to I could show an quote for Geo herself who said the orbs where meant to be used not hidden and that is why they where give to humans not elves or other races because humans actually do stuff on lore the other are more how to put it useless in its protection.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 31
1/12/2018 21:10:29   
Lord Run
Member

the answer they both die or both give up! or both fight for all eternity! there was a question just like that many many years ago "what happen when un penetrable shield clash with a spear that penetrate any shield" they both brake up! unless we will be lucky and evil hero will get distracted from some thing or get blinded by the sun becouse we stand with the back to the sun and he infront of it or some thing that will effect the battle and have nothing to do with skills or equipment basically luck... fate... god... call it how ever you like...

< Message edited by Lord Run -- 1/12/2018 21:13:21 >
Post #: 32
1/13/2018 0:44:13   
rater202
Member

quote:

1. Who would teach them the Last Will? As the hero is now, they've never even heard of such a spell, let alone know its name.
Tomixx told us the story and Val mentioned it by name.
quote:

No I mean why the good us did not used the orbs directly instead of keeping them far from us?
We did.

Like, for all but Fire, Water, and Earth that was how we primalized our dragon.

Per Ash's Lore Thread, which per Tomix is "mostly canon until contradicted in game or by current staff," the reason the Hero is able to fight against high end threats is becuase we're empowered by all Nine Orbs as well as the Ultimate Orb via attuning to them by proximity(with the Ultimate Orb and Fire, Water, and Earth coming from touching a Shard of it) and that our Dragon is for all intents and purposes using the full power of the Respective Orb when primalized.

To my knowledge, neither of those have been contradicted yet.
AQ DF  Post #: 33
1/13/2018 0:50:35   
Steel_King
Member

I think that almost anyone with the know-how can utilize an Elemental Orb. The best example is the Fire Orb, as it is used the most. We see Akriloth, Xan, Drakonnan, and *sorta* Sepulchure wield it, but only Drakonnan seems to be an Aegis (to use the term from the Water Orb questline). It seems as though the Orb itself is an immensely powerful artifact for any magic user, but a select few are able to attune more deeply to its mysteries and harness it's powers than any other. Whether that be a characteristic of personality, past history, genetics, or anything remains to be seen, but it is undeniable. This would explain how Sek-Duat harnessed the Light Orb even if he wasn't the Aegis, as being a powerful sorcerer he could still tap into the well of light energy (just perhaps not to the same amount.)
Post #: 34
1/15/2018 10:47:27   
raiogam
Member

^above the hero is Aegis(in game[inplicit] ) of the ultimate orb fused with bacon orb(whats?) and if the hero use it....
Post #: 35
1/15/2018 11:21:43   
Greyor_42
Member

Umm, the ultimate orb never fused with the bacon orb, though. And the hero isn't an Aegis to any orb. They just get a general boost to their abilities when they come in contact with an orb.

Also, i'm pretty sure that no living being can become an Aegis to an Ultimate orb, since the raw power is enough to make a person break apart just by holding it. Drakath only survived because he used its power to fuse with Fluffy before it destroyed him.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 1/15/2018 20:45:11 >
DF  Post #: 36
1/15/2018 12:25:27   
dragon_monster
Member

Does it count that Seppy could use the ice orb in spite of him not being attuned to ice? That . This the kind of use I mean directly why not use it like that. We had 5 of them why not use them as evil. Lets say good us does not it use it because.
So again why did we not use the orbs directly like Seppy did?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 37
1/15/2018 12:29:10   
Greyor_42
Member

Because the entire purpose of taking them was so that Seppy couldn't. You know how much more powerful Sepulchure was than the Hero. So did the Hero. I already said this before, if they kept the orbs on their person like you keep suggesting they should have, then they would have been easier for Seppy to steal.
DF  Post #: 38
1/15/2018 13:02:41   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


^

But could Seppy have stolen the orbs from us if we had blended them into a smoothie and drunk the mixture?
Epic  Post #: 39
1/15/2018 13:30:21   
dragon_monster
Member

Was not the plan of Seppy and MS to let us find and if needed keep the orbs since they could easily take them because of an very good spy system. Why would it matter if we kept them on us either way.
Do you all rememeber how he let us keep the wind orb?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 40
1/15/2018 13:49:53   
Greyor_42
Member

^

Correction: He didn't Let us keep the Wind Orb, he let us keep it hidden. However, if we were to keep the orbs on us, and multiple of them, we might have started to become a threat to his plan, thus he would have had to act faster, which would necessitate him taking the orbs from us before we got any stronger.


@Silver Sky Magician at that point, we'd basically become another version of Vayle, and have been the orbs as well. In which case, he would have had to take the orbs, he'd just have to take us, then use us in the ritual to create the ultimate orb, thus killing us.
DF  Post #: 41
1/15/2018 20:31:05   
raiogam
Member

the ultimate orb have power level =void and void is not zero and void is undetermined... the power from tuo is valor in(mind of being[subconscious{maybe}]) of people using it and the orb have the natural power of other orbs fused not is power level... the non-mind being(maybe non-sentient machine,golen,etc) use this natural power and zero of power level of this...
the single-minded being use this very ineffecient(very smart being[mysterious stranger{obession is not healthier } and most of villan and heros in df]) and setient being this very effecient(most all thing in lore) and the the generalist(in mind or elemental affinity) being is can alter reality itself(the warlic[very smart] and the hero[generalist in element]) ...

Post #: 42
1/15/2018 23:13:42   
rater202
Member

Honestly, if we wanted to use them ourself then the best option would have been to give each Orb to one of our Allies who knows how to fight and let them gain power from and use them to help us vanquish evil.

Off the top of my Head, Aegis with the Ice Orb.

But this is a hindsight is 2020 thing. We didn't know that Seppy was keeping tabs on us and learning where the Orbs were for future retrieval, and in hindsight, the Darkness Orb was probably safer in Vayle than it was in our bank vault.
AQ DF  Post #: 43
1/20/2018 1:09:14   
GammaCavy
Member

Also, we didn't know Aegis yet, I think.
DF  Post #: 44
1/20/2018 4:43:40   
Blazormit
Member
 

I think that us having the Ultimate Destiny weapons wouldn't be much of an advantage, mostly because their element is light. The element light is not bad in and of itself, but its downfall comes from the fact that light and darkness are the most common resistances found on most weapons, and the average player will have at least 20 res to each without trying. Who says our evil counterparts can't stack gear against us?
DF  Post #: 45
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