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RE: =DF= January 12th Design Notes: A New Student!

 
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1/12/2018 20:17:22   
dragon_monster
Member

Because she is an dragon priestess who can sense that he is an dragon. In Chinese mithology there are celestial dragons who pull the chariots of the gods and protect their palaces. I could swear that music is Chinese in origin.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 51
1/12/2018 20:24:48   
Vonix
Member

spoiler:

Yeap. Theano's wife was killed, that made him evil. Yeah, Dove is a Celestial, and Belle's blobbing op and important to the story now. Tomix making up lore 101.

That was a really nice quest though. Wasn't very long, but had a lot of stuff in it. Also new book? Time to read!

< Message edited by Vonix -- 1/12/2018 20:29:22 >


_____________________________

DF MQ AQW  Post #: 52
1/12/2018 20:46:53   
LouisCyphere
Member

@Tomix:
Is it the one where Caitiff said " I was not aware of a Light one being here..." during the Calamity Quest?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 53
1/12/2018 20:48:01   
dragon_monster
Member

No its the one where Artix and the priestess talk about healing our dragon.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 54
1/12/2018 21:15:12   
Henius Lon
Member

@Vonix I mean, it's his job to make up the lore...
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 55
1/12/2018 22:38:03   
Flabagast
Member

OK OK OK This quest has a lot of juicy stuff! And some really smooth animation, dang! Dove really outdid himself this week.

By the way, The Last Stand of Ehr'Ishin is definitely not new. It's been ingame for months... I'm sure it was brought up in the thread that Cedrei made a month ago.

@dragon_monster
A wee correction. Those were Elemental Plains not Elemental Planes. Plains as in flat lands. And I'm pretty sure it was the same place that Theano deferred to as the "Wastes" in the Enigmatic Epidemic quest. Coincidence?

Also, I believe Dove was talking about this monologue from Artix:
quote:

Elysia: Thanks to Artix's expertise, we've made an improvised purification spell.
Elysia: This has never been performed on a dragon before, but...
Artix: I know it will work!
Artix: Humans, dragons...
Artix: We're all the same! We all are creatures of magic!
Artix: More or less!

Artix: Dragons more so, I believe, but...


< Message edited by Flabagast -- 1/12/2018 22:48:48 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 56
1/12/2018 22:46:42   
Inanitas
Spellsword
AQW/DF Writer


I'm surprised there isn't more theory crafting about this Saga :P I've given you most of the tools to find out almost everything you need to know
DF AQW  Post #: 57
1/12/2018 22:55:16   
Bamzalot
Member

spoiler:

Short but informative quest. Belle's special properties are intriguing to say the least. I wonder how that will play out in the future. (Somehow I get the feeling it will not end well...) What are the possibilities of there being another person like her? It would be a real problem should the Rose or a force of evil take control over someone with Belle's capabilities.


Those Archivist caps are fancy. I've always wanted a good beret styled helm. It looks pretty good on TimeKiller with a void weapon equipped too.
Post #: 58
1/13/2018 0:55:50   
mds2006
Member
 

quote:

On Ghost's Site, the music track is called.... Brightoak Forest. Speculate Away!

Just bringing up that that song was originally from AQWorlds. It plays in a zone called Brightoak Forest.
DF has used AQW tracks for quite a while now.

So either the name is meaningless in relation to Dove, or DF's gonna have its own version of that forest in the future.
Post #: 59
1/13/2018 1:12:07   
mahasamatman
Member

Loved the last line:
quote:

spoiler:

Hero: Sit where?


All kinds of new information here (and possibly another thing for the "strongest character in df" thread to discuss).
Also, there's a new theory about Dove. One which makes about as much sense (maybe a bit less, due to the piece of dialogue from Calamity) as the Prismagon one. Hmmm...

< Message edited by mahasamatman -- 1/13/2018 1:33:22 >


_____________________________

His followers called him Mahasamatman, and claimed he was a god.
He never claimed to be a god, but then, he never claimed not to be a god.
Circumstances being what they were, neither admission could be of any benefit.
Silence, though, could.
DF  Post #: 60
1/13/2018 1:40:28   
Kyros127
Member
 

Lot's of world building going on in this one scene. So Celestial are now canon in DF Lore. Does anyone know if Celestials have they appeared in any of the other AQ games?

Also Warlic seems happier than usual this time round. I've gotten use to see him always melancholic or stoic so I was pleasantly surprised.

I'm still sticking with the Dove is Prismagon in human form theory if only cuz I feel it's more interesting.

< Message edited by Kyros127 -- 1/13/2018 1:43:10 >
Post #: 61
1/13/2018 2:15:00   
Cedrei
Member

quote:

The music choice during your first meeting with Dove is important as well.


I called it. Seriously. A few weeks ago, I said this on the DragonFable Discord server:
quote:

Hm... There's one theme that only appears three times in the game (that I can remember): Once when Dove first appears, once when our dragon is purified. The third time is when we fight Orarath in the Inn.
Does that mean that the devs are hinting at a connection between those, or am I just overthinking it?


Just a few days later, it was added as the login screen music as well. Then I got even more sure of it. It had to be something important. Seems like it's now confirmed =P

So this theme hints at dragons. It definitely does. Possibly light/good dragons specifically. It was a pretty weird choice for the battle against Orarath, with the other two dragon fights having some epic battle track. So I'm pretty sure that there's a connection there. Even if it's not an actual connection to Orarath (I doubt that. Unless Dove is Orarath?) there's definitely a connection to what Orarath is (a light/good dragon).

On another note, I really like this saga. I used to dismiss it as "pretty good, but not as good as some of the other awesome ongoing sagas", but I recently replayed all of Book 3, and the Thorns definitely is one of my favourites now. This new cutscene was just as good as I have come to expect from this saga now. Really good work on this, Inanitas!
DF  Post #: 62
1/13/2018 6:16:38   
Greyor_42
Member

@Inanitas

Sorry. The mysteries that surround Dove(again, I must specify, the character, not the staff in this case) are just too alluring for us to be able to focus on another thing too. Even though I really am interested in what in Lore's name is going on with Theano and his backstory.


Honestly, I really don't think it's as simple as his wife died. I mean, yeah, that's a really depressing thing to happen to a person, but people don't just decide to become sadistic, village slaughtering, psychopaths for that. No, it's gotta be something bigger, some sort of connection that he probably couldn't live without mentally. Something that completely and utterly broke him. Something where any sacrifice is worth getting back who he lost.

I have a theory for this that I'm currently working on, but it isn't quite ready yet.
DF  Post #: 63
1/13/2018 7:05:04   
rater202
Member

quote:

I mean, yeah, that's a really depressing thing to happen to a person, but people don't just decide to become sadistic, village slaughtering, psychopaths for that.
...Replace wife, with Family, and you've just described Konnan... Though Konnan is a bit more sympathetic and eventually tried to redeem himself, so not an exact fit.

Some people are just monsters looking for an excuse though. It's possible that, whatever loss Theano suffered, he's only partially using it as his reason to do what he's doing and part of it is that he's just kind of a monster deep down.

To make a comparison, there are people who would participate in the slaughter the entire population of the world for the sake of giving their loved ones a shot at immortality, and there are people who wouldn't be able to bring themselves to harm anyone innocent for the sake of their dead loved one and would instead try to sacrifice themselves to bring them back.(Runaways FTW)
AQ DF  Post #: 64
1/13/2018 7:18:21   
dragon_monster
Member

Wow well since Konnan became an killer months to say at most after his family was killed I guess it does not take that much to become an cold blooded killer in dragonfable.

Theon is even better then Konnan actually he at least does not kill just to kill which Konnan did to one person he does it with an purpose and will spare if you do not stay in his way has no need for you. He killed the mages probably because he needed to awaken the manaphages, he attacked the villagers because they will not give him the resurrection spell.

Theon is not an cold blooded killer the likes of Konnan he does what he does for an purpose probably an not evil one like resurrecting an love one. Konnan killed for evil's sake does it not make him worse?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 65
1/13/2018 7:36:01   
rater202
Member

@dragon_monster

Konnan didn't kill for Evil's sake. He killed because he was angry, hurt, being manipulated by Xan, and, considering that he was using almost all of the Fire Orb's power and bad thing's happen when humans do that, almost certainly literally mad with power.

Theano has coldly slaughtered almost an entire village and dozens of mages for his obsession.

Or, in other words, you have it backwards: Theano is the Cold Blooded Killer, Konnan meanwhile was in the middle of an extended psychotic break that Xan made worse.
AQ DF  Post #: 66
1/13/2018 7:37:50   
Greyor_42
Member

@rater202

Exactly.

And Theano is very obviously aware that what he's doing is wrong, otherwise, why would he be keeping it a secret from Jaania? He even shows some sort of sadistic glee in what he's doing some of the time.

Furthermore, Konnan has exactly one confirmed kill. Theano has over dozens.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 1/13/2018 7:39:18 >
DF  Post #: 67
1/13/2018 7:48:37   
dragon_monster
Member

Fine be it that way but remember this Theon does not kill unless he needs to do it for his objective. Konnan killed because why not. Oh and the manipulated, angry and that kind of stupid excuse does not cut it for me what reason he even had to kill Demento what will that accomplish he did it just to kill him for nothing just so he could die.
An orb does not make you evil or power hungry if so that girl who changed into animals would have been someone who would have been power hungry not stayed in hiding for over an thousand years.

Is an person who kills because why not an better person then one who kills with an purpose? Oh an we killed 6 enslaved dragons which are sentient beings so does that count as blood on Konnan's hands?






< Message edited by dragon_monster -- 1/13/2018 7:50:34 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 68
1/13/2018 8:08:24   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_monster

quote:

Fine be it that way but remember this Theon does not kill unless he needs to do it for his objective.


That's not an excuse to slaughter dozens of innocent people(some of which can't even defend themselves) though. Ever. And that's all he's ever killed. Heck, with the mages, he didn't just kill them, he forced them to kill themselves. The ends don't justify the means, you know.

quote:

Oh and the manipulated, angry and that kind of stupid excuse does not cut it for me what reason he even had to kill Demento what will that accomplish he did it just to kill him for nothing just so he could die.

Except that that's not an "excuse". It's the whole thing behind what he did. It's the cause. That's how people work. The human brain mind is incredibly complex and people behave to stimulus in very different ways, depending on said stimulus. Up until that point, Konnan had been wallowing in his emotions with exactly zero ways to vent, because xan was constantly watching him and not letting him vent. What happens to people when they're put under too much stress for too long a period of time without being given a chance to vent? They snap, and everything comes out at once. Explosively. That's what happened.

quote:

An orb does not make you evil or power hungry if so that girl who changed into animals would have been someone who would have been power hungry not stayed in hiding for over an thousand years.


Notice how Konnan was before he got the Orb. Notice how he was after he got the orb. Notice how he was after he lost the orb. Now notice his emotional state throughout all of it. Now notice Fae's emotional state. Finally, notice the states of the orbs themselves You can't compare one person who comes in contact with a complete orb while he was wracked with grief and rage who finally got something full of power like that to a person who came across half an orb and thought it was a "pretty ball". The conditions were too vastly different.

quote:

Is an person who kills because why not an better person then one who kills with an purpose?


And that's the problem with basing something solely on the cliff notes and not actually looking into the context and psychology behind certain acts. The situation becomes incredibly warped and misrepresented.
DF  Post #: 69
1/13/2018 8:19:41   
dragon_monster
Member

quote:

Except that that's not an "excuse". It's the whole thing behind what he did. It's the cause. That's how people work. The human brain mind is incredibly complex and people behave to stimulus in very different ways, depending on said stimulus. Up until that point, Konnan had been wallowing in his emotions with exactly zero ways to vent, because xan was constantly watching him and not letting him vent. What happens to people when they're put under too much stress for too long a period of time without being given a chance to vent? They snap, and everything comes out at once. Explosively. That's what happened.

You know torturing and enslaving an dragon seems he had where to went. So no he was not wallowing in anything without venting.
quote:

That's not an excuse to slaughter dozens of innocent people(some of which can't even defend themselves) though. Ever. And that's all he's ever killed. Heck, with the mages, he didn't just kill them, he forced them to kill themselves. The ends don't justify the means, you know.

How do you justify that Konnan did the same thing with the dragons and tried it with the mind controlled heroes but not for Theon?

quote:

Notice how Konnan was before he got the Orb. Notice how he was after he got the orb. Notice how he was after he lost the orb. Now notice his emotional state throughout all of it. Now notice Fae's emotional state. Finally, notice the states of the orbs themselves You can't compare one person who comes in contact with a complete orb while he was wracked with grief and rage who finally got something full of power like that to a person who came across half an orb and thought it was a "pretty ball". The conditions were too vastly different.

If you give someone an weapon its not the weapons fault for using it to hurt others. Its an item. You can not excuse Konnan for all he did because the orb of fire was at fault. It was not it was him and only him.
quote:

And that's the problem with basing something solely on the cliff notes and not actually looking into the context and psychology behind certain acts. The situation becomes incredibly warped and misrepresented.

No do not look at context and psychology behind certain acts you look at the acts if you look like that the worse scum that ever existed are good people. That does not matter and should never matter ever.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 70
1/13/2018 8:23:12   
rater202
Member

quote:

An orb does not make you evil or power hungry if so that girl who changed into animals would have been someone who would have been power hungry not stayed in hiding for over an thousand years.
It is explicitly stated that Konnan was using more of the Fire Orb's power than anyone else had ever been recorded as using.

It has also been stated both here and in game that living humans are not supposed to get that kind of power all at once and that bad things happen when they do.

It in all likelyhood had an effect on his mental state, which coupled with him being full of bottled up rage and grief and suddenly having godlike power made what happened inevitable.
AQ DF  Post #: 71
1/13/2018 9:29:47   
dragon_monster
Member

Fine Vayle who also went trough an very tragic event as an kid this time why was she not an an power hungry monster who enslaves sentient being to hurt other people because she wants to?
Unless you count undead as sentient.
If she could control her actions why Konnan could not and they both suffered trough terrible events?
I am not defending Theon as much as want to say that Konnan is as big of an scum also. There is no excuse for what they did one is not better then the other there both as bad as shown some people do not let their grief overcome them and start killing and enslaving sentient beings. There just evil people simple as that.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 72
1/13/2018 10:14:08   
Greyor_42
Member

^
quote:

Fine Vayle who also went trough an very tragic event as an kid this time why was she not an an power hungry monster who enslaves sentient being to hurt other people because she wants to?


Okay, and how much of the Darkness orb's power did she use? Because she very clearly didn't use all that much, as opposed to Konnan who tapped into ALL of it. Heck, Vay'e, unlike Konnan, didn't even know she was in POSSESSION of her orb. Furthermore, Noxus had given her no reason to doubt that he sincerely wanted to help Vayle revive her brother. Like I said, you have to look at the context and psychology. The two comparison you've given are, in fact, the only two people up to that point who, after using an orbs power for a long period of time, didn't go mad with power. Both of which, coincidentally, didn't even know that they were doing so.

quote:

I am not defending Theon as much as want to say that Konnan is as big of an scum also. There is no excuse for what they did one is not better then the other there both as bad as shown some people do not let their grief overcome them and start killing and enslaving sentient beings. There just evil people simple as that.


Except that Konnan is a better person, as he wasn't in his normal frame of mind when he did any of that, and has actively chosen to repent for his misdeeds. Theano, on the other hand, like I mentioned, openly appears to enjoy performing these atrocities, and is very much, unlike Konnan, in control of his actions. Konnan isn't an evil person. He did some bad things, yes, but he's not evil. Evil people don't repent, and are not remorseful about their actions, like Konnan is. There's nothing "simple" about it.
DF  Post #: 73
1/13/2018 10:20:02   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

If one considers the psychology and emotions behind actions to a great enough extent, all actions become justified. However, judging people just by their actions directly tends to oversimplify things excessively.
Given that we see their respective stories from different perspectives, I really don't see what constructive purpose discussing who is 'worse' will achieve. Especially given that we don't know Theano's motivations.


Wasn't there a theory that Dove was a celestial when the Inn's resident doomknight gave spoilers about them? I'm quite sure somebody raised that possibility.
Dove has some strange customs though, and something about his personality indicates that he wouldn't prioritize aesthetically pleasing details if it meant something didn't function properly.

Belle's link with Vitael is a link between souls. Typically, a Lorean's soul is corrupted while they're still living, from having a corrupt spirit linked to their soul. In this case, Belle is corrupting Vitael, implying that the corruption is a representation of her soul.
So this tenuous thread would imply that Belle's lack of control over her mana input has led to her soul becoming saturated with mana.
Now considering Belle's appearance, she has white hair and amber eyes; in the Tomix saga, this is revealed to mean that the user has parted with their soul.
Presumably, then, Belle hasn't died several times over. But if-- as the above speculation implies-- her soul is a gaping void filled with mana, her soul is either overrun with mana, or simply non-existent.

quote:

~original: @Dove
You want a hint?
There is a scene in one of the Calamity Saga quests where the screen weirdly focuses on Dove while someone else says a very important dialogue.
Do you think it was just some random stylistic choice? Noooope! Everything I write and animate is for a reason!
This is your hint!

I paid attention to that for the Gala. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the hint seems like it would also apply to that quest to some extent. As for Dove, I need to replay a few quests...
Time for a Dove-a-thon!
Having started, every piece of his dialogue oozes a certain aspect (either direction or misdirection; you can never be quite sure).
For example, 'Aaaaand, since I'm done here, might as well join the fabled hero and her/his entourage!' (the bold is an element of original media).



The animation in this quest was excellent. I notice the Hero has an actual pose; since when did this become possible? In all the previous quests I've played, the Hero has no gestures short of sitting down, or pre-coded ones from the class (such as kicking).
However, accompanying the 'I think she might be an infernal' line was a definitive, though simple, pose.
DF MQ  Post #: 74
1/13/2018 10:50:16   
lastspartan
Member

Why was there no fight, I was really looking forward to it. But it was really good though.
Post #: 75
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