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The Last Stand of Ehr'Ishin - SPOILERS

 
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1/26/2018 15:00:44   
Steel_King
Member

A book that is begging to be discussed. Although enigmatic, it seems to discuss a war between Celestials and Infernals against the Elements themselves, and implies that the Infernals/Celestials were created by the Elements directly. It finishes by saying how a weapon was detonated that annihilated Ehr'Ishin but stopped the enemy. The book takes place in the "Elemental Plains", which are unknown to us (by that name at least). So a few points of discussion:

- Where is Ehr'Ishin? What actually happened when they detonated the cannon?
- Are these the same Infernals as Warlic's father? How does that tie into all of this?
- It discusses mana as though it were soulthreads. This ties into Warlic's statement to Belle about Lore-weaving, and perhaps gives insight as to the nature of soulthreads and mana in Dragonfable.
- What prompted the fight?
- Why does this book appear both in Falconreach Harbour and in The Inn at the Edge of Time?\
- Celestials? ...Dove?


I know that a few previous threads on this have failed to take root, BUT THE TRUTH MUST BE FOUND!

Any ideas?


_____________________________

The Harvest approaches

I am the Reaper

Sing a song of Crows...
Post #: 1
1/26/2018 19:54:16   
Christophoses
AQW Tester
&
Lore Adept


I wanted to make this thread a while ago, but never got around to it. Kudos to you.

I have one thing to say about this, for now: Southern Continent.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 2
1/26/2018 20:52:20   
Greyor_42
Member

The only thing I can contribute is that based on a pretty hefty hint that Dove dropped in the thread for the last Thorns quest, Dove is indeed a light dragon, and not a Celestial, like I had theorized for a while. Unless of course our dragon ends up secretly being a Celestial as well, which would mean that Dove is both a Light Dragon and a Celestial(perhaps even a hybrid like Nythera?)....

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 1/26/2018 22:47:15 >
DF  Post #: 3
1/26/2018 22:29:43   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

I'll quote my post about it in the "A New Student' design notes thread:

quote:

@Tomix -
quote:

Oh, the book was added a while ago, but no one really picked it up for a discussion, with makes Verly a sad cat!

Well I mean, I read it as soon as it came out and it's very interesting, but it's so filled with elements we know nothing about that it's hard to draw any useful conclusions from it. So the Infernals and Celestials partnered up, in a war seemingly against the Elemental Lords? That doesn't really tell us much of anything. The idea that Mana is made up of threads was a very interesting point, but not sure what practical use it had before
spoiler:

this quest revealed one very unique person who could make use of that.


Although actually, now that I think about it, could Ehr'Ishin be part of the civilization that produced the Manaphages? And perhaps the firing of this Exalted superweapon could be the event that damaged Lore and the reason (or part of it) that the Lords cannot come to Lore as Ash mentioned in the lore thread? Mabe it even caused the Fissure. Or does Elemental Plains refer to what we know as the Elemental Planes (or a place therein)? That's what I had assumed when I first read it, honestly.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 4
1/27/2018 13:56:58   
Christophoses
AQW Tester
&
Lore Adept


@above

quote:

Mabe it even caused the Fissure.


This is definitely something to keep in mind for the future. The word "crater" was recently used to describe The Fissure. A large enough impact from a super weapon is something that could easily cause that.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 5
1/27/2018 23:00:21   
Flabagast
Member

@Sakurai the Cursed @Christophoses
That's what I believe. I believe the spire that held the weapon of the Exalted was built upon the Mana Core, and the Fissure is the result of the damage the weapon did to the surrounding landscape, with Ehr'Ishin at the epicentre.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 6
1/27/2018 23:29:00   
Steel_King
Member

Could the Elemental Plains be the modern-day Deadlands though? Look at the description:

quote:

A millennium ago, there occurred an elemental war so terrible that the northern reaches of this land were so desolate as to bear its namesake.


I always thought the Fissure had something to do with the Shaking Kings...
Post #: 7
1/28/2018 0:02:12   
dragon_monster
Member

Actually that war 1000 years ago was the war that brought the elemental orbs in the hands of humans. Doubt it was those plains talked in the book I mean 9 guardians managed to get with their skills in the middle of an entire elemental horde where they meet the avatars and got the orbs which they probably used to beat the elemental dissonance and calm the elementals.

Why is what I said important? Well if the humans better said 9 of them where so good that they could reach the middle of an elemental horde I am sure infernals and celestials could do far more and not need any weapon to beat them.
Come on they have impossible high mana and there far more advanced then humans, well where. so that means the elementals they fought must have dwarfed the hordes 1000 years ago probably on an whole other level.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 8
1/28/2018 22:39:47   
Steel_King
Member

Are you certain? I may be mistaken, but I thought that The Deadlands were a result of an even older conflict than the one 1000 years ago.
It is implied in the book that either the Avatars or the Lords themselves intervened against the Infernals/Celestials, so you are correct when stating that the threat was indeed on a wholly different level.
Post #: 9
1/28/2018 22:44:21   
Greyor_42
Member

@Steel_King

quote:

I thought that The Deadlands were a result of an even older conflict than the one 1000 years ago.


The book 3 map description for The Deadlands specifically states that it was a war from 1,000 years ago that left it the way it is. And the only canonical war that happened on such a scale back then in the land of dragons was the one where the avatars gave the orbs to the humans to protect.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 1/28/2018 22:45:16 >
DF  Post #: 10
1/28/2018 22:58:56   
Steel_King
Member

Thanks for the clarification, I have actually spent the past 15 minutes trying to find answers on the Deadlands' origins, and see my error now. Much obliged.

@Sakurai

If Ehr'Ishin is the modern-day Fissure, and the Ehr'Ishians made the Manaphages, how did the Manaphages end up in Dragesvard? it is also stated in Dark Devices that the makers of the Manaphages were destroyed by them. We know Ehr'Ishin destroyed itself however.
Post #: 11
1/29/2018 16:48:44   
Christophoses
AQW Tester
&
Lore Adept


Artix confirmed a while back that this is what the Southern Continent looks like. Whether or not this pertains to DragonFable is a completely different story. Oddly enough, there's even something in AQW called "The Spire".
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 12
1/29/2018 18:39:41   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

@Steel_King - A few things. First, why assume the fissure is the location of the weapon? If it made use of the mana core then I don't see why the inhabitants would need to unravel themselves to provide it with power, it could just draw from the core. What I proposed was that the fissure could be the impact crater, where the weapon was aimed. Second, Ehr'Ishin was a city, not a civilization; what I said was that I wonder if it was part of the civilization that created the Manaphages, as the author of the book says that through their sacrifice others will live on. Or maybe the Manaphage civilization simply made use of ancient Exalted technology that they found. Maybe they're not connected at all, but the description of "an ancient civilization which built great machines that ran on mana" certainly fits.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 13
1/30/2018 14:47:52   
Steel_King
Member

It says in the book though that the Elements were right outside Ehr'Ishin, to witness the fall of the Exalted themselves.



If we look at the first page, it says that:
quote:

Power, that was what they held here, hoarded behind the shining pillars of the temples of the Elements

Does that mean the power comes from the Elements? Or that the Elements are powerful? This line is confusing me.



Post #: 14
1/31/2018 6:35:05   
Christophoses
AQW Tester
&
Lore Adept


@Sakurai

While I agree that The Fissure and where The Exalted used to be are likely in two completely separate locations, there's always the possibility that The Exalted fired (I assume it's that kind of weapon) upwards and that the energy fell back on top of the superweapon instead of an intended destination.

----

@Steel_King

If I understand correctly, this simply means that there was a great power beyond what met the eye. The temples of the Elements could be seen, and beyond that lied something else.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 15
1/31/2018 9:39:05   
Greyor_42
Member

^ it could also be that upon firing, the weapon detonated and left a crater leading all the way to the Core, and thus the Fissure was born.
DF  Post #: 16
1/31/2018 14:41:01   
GammaCavy
Member

Interesting how that map looks rather like a pawprint.
DF  Post #: 17
1/31/2018 20:13:22   
Emrys
Member

I don't really remember what went down in book 2, so this could be referring to something else entirely, but in the spire in Atrea, Isiri says "If you can defeat the celestials, then you deserve to become an Ascendant." what could this mean? weren't we fighting infernals?

EDIT: upon further investigation i think she's referring to the beings in the cosmos you fight in the quest to unlock ascendant. so perhaps the celestials in the book are like the ones here, but i think more likely theyre just using similar terminology.

< Message edited by Emrys -- 1/31/2018 20:20:23 >
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 18
1/31/2018 20:24:37   
Greyor_42
Member

@Emrys

"A New Student" confirms that the Celestials in the book are a more peaceful counterpart to the Infernals, and I trust Warlic's judgement here, what with him being half Infernal himself.

So it's definitely just similar terminology.
DF  Post #: 19
2/1/2018 23:17:17   
PurgeXZ
Member

What is Ehr'Ishin, and which arc was this all mentioned in? The True Mortal arc? The First Weaver arc?
Post #: 20
2/1/2018 23:54:26   
Greyor_42
Member

The book at the Inn at the Edge of Time.
DF  Post #: 21
2/2/2018 0:07:55   
Steel_King
Member

^^ And it briefly appears in Harbouring Aliens - a quest from Odd Jobs Book Three.



If mana is composed of soulthread-like matter, then is there a link between mana and the soul? Could Lore have a "World Soul" vibe going for it like in WOW?

< Message edited by Steel_King -- 2/5/2018 19:33:50 >
Post #: 22
2/10/2018 1:39:21   
Christophoses
AQW Tester
&
Lore Adept


@Greyor

quote:

it could also be that upon firing, the weapon detonated and left a crater leading all the way to the Core, and thus the Fissure was born.


That makes much more sense. A malfunction is much more likely to occur than the weapon accidental firing on itself.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 23
2/10/2018 13:04:14   
Steel_King
Member

It could also be somewhat in tune with Newton's Third Law. If the projectile that was shot (whether that be mana, soul-threads, elemental essence, etc.) was powerful enough to destroy the oncoming force, perhaps the cannon's blowback was equally powerful.

Alternatively, think about what happens if you overfill a musket with black powder. Similar principles could apply.
Post #: 24
2/10/2018 15:31:03   
Greyor_42
Member

quote:

It could also be somewhat in tune with Newton's Third Law. If the projectile that was shot (whether that be mana, soul-threads, elemental essence, etc.) was powerful enough to destroy the oncoming force, perhaps the cannon's blowback was equally powerful.


That's actually where I was going with it. The detonation was because of the recoil of firing, not a malfunction.
DF  Post #: 25
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