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Aegis and fleshweaving

 
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1/28/2018 0:22:49   
SoullessButProud
Member

Ok, I'm gonna go straight to the point

WILL AEGIS CONSENT to being "eaten"

Aegis has a strong sense of justice and if he really thought that letting us "eat" him would help the hero protect the people of lore. I believe that he would willingly be "eaten" by the hero because he trusts the hero to do the right thing with the power also considering Aegis's power (which he got from us being frozen) would he turn out like vaal and become a moral guide for the hero

its just a theory


< Message edited by SoullessButProud -- 1/28/2018 0:24:49 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 1
1/28/2018 0:34:50   
Greyor_42
Member

@SoullessButProud

Well, we know fro ma comment made by Dove that, in the context that it will be done in, consuming Aegis won't be murder. One way of interpreting that is indeed that Aegis might consent to it. Personally, I would like the end result to be similar to what happened with Vaal and Roirr, where he becomes a disembodied voice in our head as a result, but unfortunately, that's not likely to happen.
DF  Post #: 2
1/28/2018 1:15:11   
rater202
Member

I've got a couple of theories.

1: Tomix, he whose sodium intake is comprised entirely of our tears, finds someway to contrive a situation where consuming Aegis and becoming a Fleshweaver is the most moral choice--perhaps a quest where we are trying to defend a village from a corrupt Elemental SPirit or Piotr(if he's full badguy) and Aegis gets critically wounded and bad guy tries to consume him--we get the option to either consume Aegis ourself with his blessing to keep using his power to save the village, or save him at the cost of failing to protect the village. completing quest and choosing to eat Aegis unlocks train as Fleshweaver options.

2: Less substantial, based on Tomix's initial comment that we'd be "absorbing" Aegis, that Secundus did do the flesh thing for Aegis, and more reccently with how he really wants us to be a Fleshweaver, that he might have done something or other to make our method of consuming Spirits more like consensual absorption or fusion, either with Aegis sticking around as a Val in Riorr situation or something like Namekian fusion where he technically ceases to exist though his memories, power, and life expeirnaces are added to ours as our souls merge.

3: Possibly more likely: Secundus lies and makes the Hero and Aegis think he did number 2 to trick us into going through with it, counting on us to continue on along the path due to either sunk costs or a desire for revenge at being tricked into killing one of their closest friends(and needing to replace their lost soulweaving with something.)

4: Secundus somehow manages to spin the process as being a more powerful form of synchronization and the Hero and Aegis do it... and only find out that it's permanent(beyond the free redo or the DC redos) and Aegis will cease to exist after it's too late to back out. Possibly combined with 2 or 3.

5: Similar to 1, Tomix designs an optional quest where we are tricked or forced by coercion ot circumstances into synchronizing so heavily and for so long with Aegis that we end up permanently absorbing him by accident, harvests player tears. Possibly combined with one of the above.
AQ DF  Post #: 3
1/28/2018 18:33:45   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

Dove said it won't be murder, but he also said that Aegis will cease to exist: https://twitter.com/tomixdf/status/645350995426414592

So most likely no "lingering on" like Vaal.

< Message edited by Sakurai the Cursed -- 1/28/2018 18:34:30 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 4
1/28/2018 18:46:54   
Shadow X Ascendant
Member

@Sakurai , it will be like , "I will lend to you all of me for the good of everyone" Aegis, has a high sense of justice , he will for sure choose saving everyone before himself

< Message edited by Shadow X Ascendant -- 1/28/2018 18:47:45 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 5
1/28/2018 19:00:22   
rater202
Member

@StC

Cease to exist can be interpreted in a number of ways, though. Ceasing to exist as an individual isn't quite the same as ceasing to exist as a distinct personality which isn't the same as total secession of existence.
AQ DF  Post #: 6
1/28/2018 23:28:24   
GammaCavy
Member

I'm expecting one of those choices like we got back in the first book to join the villain, only this time the choice is for real, not a joke that pops up the consequences and tells you to try again.

Incidentally, I've added a second chapter to my DF poetry collection. It's a long one about the dragon if the hero dies. Here.

< Message edited by GammaCavy -- 1/28/2018 23:53:03 >
DF  Post #: 7
1/29/2018 13:18:48   
Kaizoku
Member

I'm not sure why anyone would expect some cop out for it. He said Aegis is consumed. Gone. End of story.
DF  Post #: 8
1/29/2018 13:38:16   
Steel_King
Member

^^Agreed. Dove said this would be a sacrifice. Either Aegis or Fleshweaver. And it's Dove, so tears will be coming.

People are comparing Aegis to Vaal, and say he might hang around as a disembodied voice or something. Two things:

1) Roirr viewed Vaal's continued existence as a massive anomaly. This is not the norm for how things go down when you eat a spirit

2) Let's look at what what happened to Vaal's SoulAlly.
Post #: 9
1/29/2018 13:54:26   
rater202
Member

quote:

I'm not sure why anyone would expect some cop out for it. He said Aegis is consumed. Gone. End of story.
Because 1: The hero has been stated to never be evil and that consuming Aegis won't be murder "in context" which implies that he's willing and/or there will be strange circumstances to his consumption and 2: I wouldn't put it past Tomix to be playing with exact words.
quote:

Either Aegis or Fleshweaver
The stated trade off is 1: Aegis as a Guest, Soulweaver and Master Soulweaver(and the boost from BA by extension) and possibly NPC dialog or sidequests in exchange for Fleshweaver.

When Tomix first mentioned it, he said that we would absorb Aegis. Not eat him. IIRC, he's never actually said eat.

And as I said, there are numerous ways that "cease to exist" can be taken.

Not looking for a cop-out. I'm looking for Tomix to be Tomix and pull something on us.

Because it would be totally in character for him to make keeping Aegis the objectively least moral choice or something, just to harvest the tears of the "never become a Fleshweaver/how dare you want to be a Fleshweaver" crowd.

(I mean, are there really going to be that many tears from people who opt in knowing full well whats going to happen, as Tomix said we'd be made aware of the full consequences upfront before committing to anything.)

Also, from a practical standpoint Aegis persisting as a voice in our head even though he no longer exists as a distinct individual makes it somewhat easier to make multible versions of quests that would be affected by the Fleshweaver/Soulweaver split. Less dialog needs to be rewritten if it's say, a scene where the hero is talking to Aegis, while only needing to modify the artwork of Aegis's house(translucient Aegis), not the dialog options.

< Message edited by rater202 -- 1/29/2018 13:59:30 >
AQ DF  Post #: 10
1/29/2018 13:56:19   
Steel_King
Member

I believe on Twitter he said we would consume Aegis, and then clarified with consume = eat. Nom nom.
Post #: 11
1/29/2018 16:37:35   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

@rater - Actually, the first word he ever used on the matter was "devour"; the post of his that started all of this was:
quote:

If you'd have to devour Aegis in order to be able to unlock the Fleshweaver class, would you do it?
This is a serious question.
I can make a Fleshweaver class in the future, but you'd have to absorb your only one soulally to unlock it.

Then, in the tweet I linked he specifically says:
quote:

Once you eat Aegis and become a FleshWeaver, he'll cease to exist. So... you WILL be consuming him. So eating = consuming.


Also,
quote:

Ceasing to exist as an individual isn't quite the same as ceasing to exist as a distinct personality

I would say those are the same thing, as I think the two are mutually inclusive. A distinct personality is required to be an individual, and individuality is required to be a distinct personality. Ceasing to exist implies much more than just losing one's physical body. There is still some wiggle-room in that statement for something like Secundus where two beings ceased to exist and merged into one new being, but I think we can all agree that's not going to happen here. Honestly, the most I could see happening is us obtaining Aegis' memories, as we saw with Vaal and Roirr gaining access to each others' minds, and perhaps that could be seen as a way of living on in us. But I really don't think Aegis will live on as a personality/individual in any way.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 12
1/29/2018 17:59:52   
Greyor_42
Member

^

Well, if were were to fully gain his memories, we theoretically could compile them together in our mind and grant them some form of sentience as a self-made voice in our head.....
DF  Post #: 13
1/29/2018 18:31:20   
G.t.h
Member

spoiler:

When do we meet Secundus? Where this quest?
AQW  Post #: 14
1/29/2018 18:42:22   
Greyor_42
Member

^

It's not in a quest, specifically:

spoiler:

there are vials scattered around both Ravenloss maps(Book 1 and 3, as well as quests in both the Greed and Void Ship sagas) that lead you to Char's abandoned house in Book 3 Ravenloss, where you have to wait for 22 seconds for a portal to Secundus' lair to open up.


< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 1/29/2018 18:43:01 >
DF  Post #: 15
1/29/2018 19:21:39   
rater202
Member

If we consume Aegis and he becomes part of us, then he would cease to exist as an individual but would still exist as part of us as we would inherit his powers as the very least--what was once him is now part of us. Even more so if we gained his memories

If he, somehow, remained a sapient being ala Vaal in Rior, he would not be a distinct individual but would still exist as a distinct personality.

We don't know if "Cease to exist" means total secession, secession of individual existence, or secession of existence as a distinct personality.

"If he's only a voice in your head, then does he truly exist" could be in play. I'm not going to just assume that Tomix isn't using exact words to trip us up.
AQ DF  Post #: 16
1/29/2018 19:59:03   
Steel_King
Member

Why not just use Occam's Razor until we know more details?

Vaal's SoulAlly got eaten. She ceased to exist. As in, not a voice, not a hallucination, GONE.

Our SoulAlly gets eaten. ______________

We can fill in the blanks just with that knowledge.


Everyone is comparing Aegis to Vaal, but Vaal was an EXCEPTION to the rule, not the norm. Besides, Vaal was alive at time of devouring, Aegis is not. The best comparison we have is Vaal's SoulAlly, and look how that turned out.

If you hear hoofbeats, it's probably a horse.
If you devour your friends soul, he will probably stop existing.
Post #: 17
1/29/2018 20:31:47   
Vanilla Icecream
Member

^I agree with him there. Vaal was a human being who survived the body jump (which is NOT a fleshweaver skill). Aegis is an Elemental Spirit who will be consumed by a fleshweaver skill. There's nothing in common. It wouldn't make sense if Aegis survived the process (though I have to admit that Tomix can pull it off if he wanted to, since he's... well... you know... Tomix).
DF  Post #: 18
1/29/2018 21:48:01   
Kresnik
Member

Still, wouldnt it be awkward if we could still hear aegis as a voice in our head after eating him. LIke we literally ate a friend we knew for years.
DF AQW  Post #: 19
1/29/2018 23:43:27   
Shadow X Ascendant
Member

It will be Like merging two beigns into one, The Hero and Aegis as one only power.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 20
1/30/2018 2:34:16   
Kresnik
Member

kinda figured it would be like eating ice cream.
DF AQW  Post #: 21
1/30/2018 3:27:32   
Vanilla Icecream
Member

Merging and consuming are completely different things? Merging is like Vaal and Roirr being merged into Secondus. Consuming is Roirr consuming Vaal's Soul Minion (who, incidentally, didn't survive the process).
And besides, I thought the hero was going to consume more than just Aegis for the right-side skills? That's going to be one hell of a concert if they all survive.
DF  Post #: 22
1/30/2018 4:03:22   
rater202
Member

The circumstances, key word, of Aegis's consumption make us doing so not a murder.

What if it's not a murder because, due to some special circumstance, Aegis survives being absorbed and is thus, still "alive," per se? Someone has to die for a murder.

I'm not saying that's how it'll happen. I'm saying I'm not putting it past Tomix to make fleshweaver the objectively best choice of nothing but bad choices morally in order to harvest the slaty tears of the "never Fleshweaver" and "How dare you force Tomix to make Fleshweaver" crowds since he's probably not getting much from people who knowingly opt in to the thing that's going to cost them Aegis if he plays it straight.
AQ DF  Post #: 23
1/30/2018 4:28:23   
Vanilla Icecream
Member

Like I said, I'm sure Tomix can pull the whole Aegis surviving situation off if he wants to. Sure, it's a possibility, but so is a million others.
I just want to clarify that this isn't a theory with supporting proof, as the phrase "would he turn out like vaal" might imply. ("might", because it really depends on how you read it.) Besides, everyone else was taking Vaal as an example when he really can't be used as one.
I can theorize that Aegis will be reborn as an elemental and have his revenge on Secondus. Zero proof, but still a possibility, however unlikely.

At this point, I actually don't really care what others do (or don't). I will stay away from that button but only because heaven knows red isn't my colour, and I prefer my hero with toes. It's an awesome design and I love it, but I prefer blue.
My point isn't about the morality of the choice because Tomix will take care of that. It's more about correcting people who have the wrong idea that Vaal's situation is similar to what some of us will face. The circumstances are completely different.

< Message edited by Vanilla Icecream -- 1/30/2018 4:34:29 >
DF  Post #: 24
1/30/2018 4:42:09   
Flabagast
Member

By the way, might I add that Dove may have said that eating Aegis "wouldn't be murder", because Aegis has already technically died? Again, it may depend on how you read it.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 25
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