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RE: Aegis and fleshweaving

 
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2/1/2018 16:42:17   
Tomix
Soulweaver


Precisely!
DF  Post #: 51
2/1/2018 16:46:57   
Greyor_42
Member

Fair point. I sort of just associated it with Roirr, due to his ability to do time travel via passing through the Plane of Elemental Spirits, forgetting that being an Elemental Spirit himself, that's already something Secundus could naturally do.....

Though, my main point stands, that since Secundus can time travel, we may or may not have met his after he already ensured his own existence(realistically speaking, that was probably the first thing he did after leaving Roirr, go to the future after his two halves were left isolated in Roirr's skeleton body to send them back and become him), which means that if we were to somehow consume him, as unlikely as that is, we could do it during the events of Book 3 without damaging the time loop, since it's already set.



Edit: Wait, does this mean that Aegis can time travel, too? Or is it specific to Secundus' region of the PoES?

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 2/1/2018 16:53:22 >
DF  Post #: 52
2/1/2018 20:31:02   
Shadow X Ascendant
Member

I think if Aegis has that type of power , or not, probably, he have told us, or not, he even says that has no secrets between us because of our strong bond..... Or not.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 53
2/3/2018 0:32:20   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

The only plane we ever see Roirr or Secundus travel through is the Fire Paradigm. It's possible that this particular plane is the only one 'out of sync' with Lore; however, since the plane is used to travel both to the past and future, the relative time between the two would need to fluctuate (though these fluctuations could be out of sync without issue).
Secundus' existence might even be what throws it off, though I suspect it'd be something a little more significant. Personally, I am curious about Vaal's weapon, Transcendance; it's stated to have a long history. While it was presumably acquired by Al'raia after being used, there's still something weird about it...

In Just Chillin', Piotr's body is completely wrapped, though his hair hasn't yet turned white. I don't think it's coincidence that we don't see his body (as some members said at the time; that quest was quite a while ago now...).
I really think, in future, we should probe Secundus a little more about Char and his brother...
Speaking of Just Chillin', Aegis didn't swim in his body; but it seemed to be a little like Roirr's Izbor suit, so there's a possibility that it was the same magic. Danyel has access to knowledge of these spells, so likely he'd recognize the spell. We still don't know what Danyel did while he was in the Land of Dragons; something tells me it may be related to Piotr, and a line of dialogue from The Beginning of the End.
quote:

Danyel: Ready?
Baltael: Dan, don't--
Danyel: I don't have anything left to live for!!! READY!?



quote:

~original: @Kresnik
Still it would be cool if the hero could just eat undeveloped elemental spirits used in soul forging.Like it would probably be a more ethical solution for the hero instead of going around eating soul allies.

But... what makes soulforging ethical is that it prevents them from being consumed by corrupt spirits. If consuming undeveloped spirits is ethical, soulforging doesn't have the moral high ground anymore; meaning that if consuming undeveloped spirits is likened in ethics to soulforging them...
It makes an ethical paradox!
The simple answer being that it isn't ethical to consume them.
DF MQ  Post #: 54
2/3/2018 3:01:14   
rater202
Member

@Shiny

No. Soulforging is ethical because undeveloped souls aren't people and never will be. Mentioning that they'd otherwise fade away or be eaten by corrupted spirits is very much a case of "this way, at least they're useful," if not an afterthought.

Also, strictly speaking, undeveloped spirits have less sentience or sapience than a particularly dumb animal--I'd argue that consuming them over full spirits is the difference between veganism and cannibalism s far as ethics are concerned.
AQ DF  Post #: 55
2/3/2018 3:17:18   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

Veganism is easier to define because there are key differences between the genetics of plants and animals, meaning that vegans know what they're consuming possesses no neural pathways. At least, not of the mammalian kind. Spirits seem to be a more fluid continuum; some undeveloped spirits might be really close to being developed; others, far from it.
Perhaps it's closer to eating insects, or jellyfish in comparison to cannibalism. Additionally, undeveloped spirits were all once people (incidentally imposing a limit on the number of soulsmiths that can practise, or, for that matter, practice); and they possess emotion, which can be quite complicated.
As far as I'm aware, it hasn't been confirmed that undeveloped spirits aren't people, or have no intelligence; it doesn't necessarily follow from not having a physical form.

Another thing I'm curious about; is 'banishing' a spirit the same as killing it? Or, if one can traverse the Plane of Elemental Spirits, could they potentially eat all the spirits Tomix banished?

Edit: Turns out the Just Chillin' quest was archived.
1
And pages 2-5 can be accessed from this page.

@below
Tomix confirmed that the 'freed' souls did not return to the PoES, but... evaporated? I can't remember the wording.

< Message edited by Shiny_Underpants -- 2/3/2018 5:38:44 >
DF MQ  Post #: 56
2/3/2018 4:24:24   
Kresnik
Member

Even if these souls are eaten, wouldnt they just be trapped inside a fleshweaver?Since well Danyel and Batlael did manage to free the souls from Roir.So they wouldnt be gone per se but rather kept alive as a power source for fleshweavers.
DF AQW  Post #: 57
2/3/2018 7:20:39   
Greyor_42
Member

^We also don't know just how many of those souls were Elemental Spirits, or just plain old humans.
DF  Post #: 58
2/3/2018 10:45:46   
rater202
Member

@Shiny.

You have about halfof your DNA in common with a Banana, and we really have no indication that there are "levels" of undeveloped spirits. Also, citation on undeveloped spirits having emotions?

And if they're "people" then all Soulsmiths are just as "evil" as Fleshweavers.
AQ DF  Post #: 59
2/3/2018 11:55:44   
Hermitpriest
Member

@rater202

I'd say this quote from Lenrete in his Soulforge shows that underdeveloped spirits have emotions.
quote:

Lanrete: Just so you know... do not make more than one item of the same type. SoulForged items are sentient. They might get... jealous.
Lanrete: If you make a staff, and then make another, better one, the previous staff can, and WILL, assume the same properties as the new one.


< Message edited by Hermitpriest -- 2/3/2018 11:57:15 >
DF  Post #: 60
2/3/2018 12:14:25   
Kresnik
Member

Well maybe these soulforge spirits actually like being in weapons.Hahahahahahaha. Still its a little disturbing to know that soulforge weapons are sentient like Sepulchure's doomblade.
DF AQW  Post #: 61
2/3/2018 13:30:14   
rater202
Member

That's referring to the weapon, not the soul.
AQ DF  Post #: 62
2/3/2018 13:49:29   
Edorath
Member
 

To be fair there's not much of a difference between either at this point. Also i don't think they are that sentient to begin with, i always assumed they had little to no sentience or awareness due them not being fully developed.
AQ AQW  Post #: 63
2/6/2018 15:44:22   
Paryas
Member

Would a Fleshweaver be able to eat Secundus?
DF AQW  Post #: 64
2/6/2018 16:11:33   
Greyor_42
Member

Based on Dove's latest tweet, I'm not so sure we can even consume Aegis anymore.....
DF  Post #: 65
2/8/2018 23:28:28   
OpprobriousPinecones
Member

^^ It'd probably be possible, sure; I don't see why not. Pretty sure we need to consume our SoulAlly to actually get Fleshweaver powers, but as an Elemental Spirit, he could be consumed. I feel like if such a thing were to happen, though, they'd have to take him by surprise, since I feel like he'd have some sort of safeguard against being devoured.

< Message edited by OpprobriousPinecones -- 2/8/2018 23:44:08 >
Post #: 66
2/9/2018 1:06:36   
Hermitpriest
Member

@OpprobriousPinecones

I don't think you got the joke.

EDIT: Also we really don't NEED to eat Aegis, we could just eat a different fully developed elemental spirit, Aegis is just the one we have the easiest access to since we can summon him at any time. If we didn't eat Aegis to obtain FW then we'd probably get a quest that would involve tracking down a somewhat strong elemental spirit. Maybe like the The Forest Gate quest from the Rise of Nivalis/True Mortal Saga, where we just get sent to 1 of 5(just an example number) random maps and only 1 of them has a spirit to progress the story.

< Message edited by Hermitpriest -- 2/9/2018 2:35:46 >
DF  Post #: 67
2/9/2018 6:14:50   
LouisCyphere
Member

Aegis would be the appetizer for Fleshweaver.

Water helps in smoothing the palate .
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 68
2/9/2018 15:04:45   
OpprobriousPinecones
Member

Nah, I was talking to Paryas; no way we're eating Aegis like that...I mean, god. He's on soul-steroids.

Also, Aegis is an ice spirit.
Post #: 69
2/9/2018 20:33:09   
LouisCyphere
Member

Ice melts when it's in your mouth
Now that begs the question of how we're going to eat Aegis? Would it be similar to how Roirr ate Alraia?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 70
2/15/2018 2:03:36   
OpprobriousPinecones
Member

Probably, yeah. I can't imagine that we'll be savoring it like he did, though...
Post #: 71
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